Innocent until proved guilty -

[liberal N proud]

That was the repuke talk show mantra on Sunday morning.
OK true I say, BUT, Does that hold true with Grand Jury indictments?
Grand Jury investigations are usually pretty thorough and indictments don't usually come down unless there is solid evidence of a crime.
So with the repukes talking innocent until proved guilty, I say guilty if and when the indictments come down.

[4dsc]

1. Repuks are actually saying

that there will be no indictments!!

[amber dog democrat]

2. Did they say that when Watergate got started ?

I'm thinking yes, at first.

[Walt Starr]

3. I'll take the stance they took against Clinton

Guilty until proven innocent.

[ComerPerro]

16. And, hell, even being proven innocent won't be enough

it wasn't for them

[H2O Man]

4. Innocent until proven guilty

only applies to the treatment a suspect is entitled to within the context of a courtroom. A judge is responsible for insuring that a defendant is treated fairly in all phases of the trial. And that's it. The media has self-imposed rules on saying "suspect," and police use the term "person of interest," not because they are really think "innocent until proven guilty," but rather because they are aware of civil lawsuits that can potentially arise if they call the rare person charged with a crime guilty before a trial.

In truth, the overwhelming majority of people arrested are indeed guilty. In the case of this administration, even those who are not indicted are guilty, too!

[leveymg]

5. Republicans: Soft on Crime.

Sounds like a foxhole conversion to me.

President Strangelove: Or, How I Learned to Relax and Love the American Association of Trial Lawyers.

[H2O Man]

6. "soft on crime"

Perfect! I love it.

[tritsofme]

7. They say a prosecutor could get a GJ to indict a ham sandwich.

In other words the prosecutor usually gets what he wants out of the grand jury.

Fitzgerald however has been going through the process for two years, and I think he has all his ducks lined up in a row.

[Hubert Flottz]

9. "ham sandwich"

Well, we all know, that the Bushco Gang is a bunch of "Fascist Pigs"

If not "Ham," then surely some hog jowls from KKKarl. The Reichminister of bullshit has 2 of them chubby hog jowls...and if Fitz needs the jowl bone of an @$$ bush has two of those too.

[H2O Man]

11. There are, of course, two

types of grand juries. The most common is to simply hear a prosecutor present evidence that a person (or people) may have committed a crime. The ham sandwich saying applies to that type.

The second, far less common type is an investigatory grand jury. That is what Fitzgerald has just lead. The goal of such an investigation is very different than that of the more common type; hence, the saying does not apply.

[MADem]

8. Well, I say where there's smoke, there's fire

The GOP is desperately casting about for a rope to hang on to...in the end, they'll hang themselves with it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. Take BFEE Out Of The Question

All an indictment is in a free country with a free people is an accusation ; nothing more and nothing less...

[Hubert Flottz]

14. Tell that to the people Ashcroft grabbed.

The GOPers threw the book out the window when they stole the election in 2000. Read 'The Betrayal Of America' by Vincent Bugliosi.

[alcibiades_mystery]

12. Everyone accused of a felony is indicted by a grand jury

You need to review your criminal law textbooks or basic American jurisprudence.

[ET Awful]

17. I believe that only applies to felonies under federal law. So while,

in this case, you are accurate, not ALL accused felons are indicted by grand juries. In most states, for other than the most extreme felony charges, an indictment by grand jury is not necessary.

See: http://www.udayton.edu/~grandjur/stategj/funcsgj.htm

"These states tend to follow federal practice, requiring that indictments be used to charge serious crimes and allowing other charging instruments, such as informations and complaints, to be used to bring charges for minor felonies and misdemeanors. Informations and complaints are like indictments in that they charge particular persons with committing crimes, but unlike indictments, they are initiated by a prosecutor acting without the assistance of a grand jury."

Many states (listed in the link above) don't require grand jury indictments at all and a prosecutor can bring charges without one.

[alcibiades_mystery]

18. You're right, of course

Complaints etc. are used to speed the process, but indictments are required for most major felonies in all states. You don't go on trial for murder without having been indicted, for instance. The other instruments are primarily time-saving devices for the grand juries.

[ET Awful]

19. Most isn't all :) In fact, 27 states don't require an indictment at all

they use the grand jury merely for investigative functions. Twenty-five make indictments optional, and two don't use grand juries for indictments:

"Twenty-five states (Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Maryland, Michigan, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Washington, Wisconsin and Wyoming) make the use of indictments optional. Most of them let prosecutors use either an indictment or an information to charge any offense.

Connecticut and Pennsylvania have abolished the use of grand juries to return indictments, but kept the investigating grand jury. Both used a constitutional amendment approved by the electorate to abolish the indicting grand jury. Connecticut replaced the grand jury's determination of probable cause with a hearing before a judge. Pennsylvania's amendment gave each county court the option of using informations, instead of indictments, to bring charges. All of the courts chose that option and ended the use of the indicting grand jury in Pennsylvania.".

It's really about half and half. You can indeed go on trial for murder without being indicted. Especially if you are being charged in Pennsylvania or Connecticut.

[KharmaTrain]

13. OK...Then They Should All Love Clinton

He was tried and found "not guilty" by the Senate...thus he's been vindicated by the system (including a majority of Repugnicans) and there should never be any Clinton hate since the man surely was judged and was found innocent. (and pigs fly).

I'm not ready to condemn Repugnicans as guilty...I will gladly wait for the trials and know that the justice system still can handle these goons.

What amuses me...for people who are innocent, they're sure spending a lot of money attempting to tell us they are.

[Bridget Burke]

15. That's a vital concept for Judges & Juries.

But we in the peanut gallery can say anything we want.

As to the media & the whining Republicans--let's remember how they treated President Clinton.

[Neil Lisst]

20. Innocent until proven guilty applies to criminal sanctions only

In the court of public opinion, guilt and innocence is determined on an ongoing basis.

GUILTY.

http://www.webcomicsnation.com/neillisst/