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whatever4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 10:32 AM
Original message
Just something I wrote, to another thread...
that was locked. It was about threads being locked.

------------------
I'm in total agreement with you on that. Thank you so much for this post. I almost posted something to the same effect myself this morning, I came very close.

I had written something I sincerely wanted to share, on the subject of this board being sometimes to touchy on racism or sexism, but feeling free to, I think the words were "bash Christians". Spent a few minutes writing it, more than a couple, and when I tried to post, the thread was locked. Again. It's happened a few times.

In fact, sometimes, it's almost a predictor of whether the thread will be locked; if I feel so strongly I want to write something serious about it, it won't last long. No point. I thought the one this morning was close, but that discussion would be allowed.

I wasn't in the best of moods anyway (and that includes a quick trip this am to the kids school, to drop off forgotten meds and I HATE that) and I just didn't appreciate it one damned bit.

I was thinking, I felt really good about trying to share my views, give and take, and hopefully mollify the situation, defuse it, and have a dialog about a sensitive subject HERE where there are the MOST worthy folks I CARE to discuss stuff with.

Yeah, I didn't appreciate it. Now, if this thread is locked by the time I try to post this, you'll likely hear the scream of frustration, wherever you are.

It's as upsetting and offensive as anything I could read on here, sometimes. Sorry, but, it is.
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southlandshari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
1. It is very frustrating
to put a lot of effort into writing something thoughtful and meaningful and then not be able to post it because the thread was locked for rules violations while you were composing your reply.

I know it is - it happens to all of us, even moderators.

:hug:

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whatever4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. I appreciate the response
and thank you. My modest suggestion, couldn't y'all block out or delete selected inflammatory responses to some of those threads, and maybe sometimes let us try to manage for a little while, before locking entirely? I'm not sure you don't already try that, but I know the thread was pretty new, so I didn't think it had time to turn into a battle royal. I'll leave it as a small request, my two cents, having never been a mod or knowing what types of issues you might face, in keeping the board up and running. Especially in the climate we operate in today.

Again though, thanks for the response, and the hug, I know we're all hanging in there :)
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. i am interested in this too. i am seeing that we need to define bashing
Edited on Mon Oct-24-05 10:40 AM by seabeyond
christians. because i was directed to a thread that was supposedly bashing of christian. i am a christian. i didnt see any bashing. i saw a person expressing a story in how he sees christianities role in todays nation. but didnt see it bashing christians

i guess it is in our perception of just what bashing is

which makes talking about christianity, at all, very challenging

another poster suggested that people saying it is the christian job to stand up to fundamentalist, is bashing

as a christian i feel a huge responsibility standing up to fellow christians when they promote hate. ergo, i have been a christian basher in this posters perception, because i have said that often
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motocicleta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. thanks.
my post to the aformentioned thread also was wasted because it was locked while I typed. And I don't quite understand why, although I have never been that good at reading and understanding rules such as those governing these forums.

My point, though, was basically the atheist version of what you wrote. I realize we can get cruel at times, but I don't see the bashing that the original poster sees. I wanted to suggest we all work harder to point it out when any of us goes over the line. That is all.
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TheDebbieDee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
3. Maybe this is an issue that may best be remembered.......
the next time cash donations are solicited for the maintenance of this site.

Just sayin'
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. really? hm. i will be donating, and offering to buy others
stars too. next fundraiser.
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Democrat 4 Ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
4. Suggestion - read the DU rules. If it violates a DU rule, please
don't be surprised if it gets locked. The rules are there for very good reasons. Unless you have served as a moderator you have no idea - none, zip, nada - how time consuming and difficult being a moderator on a board of 79,000+ strong-willed, high-minded individuals can sometimes be.

The moderators do a hard, thankless job and we should thank these volunteers for their service to keep this site as a premier source for democratic ideas without it degenerating into a 24/7 all out brawl.
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MostlyLurks Donating Member (738 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Sometimes, though, it seems the rules are a bit...stringent?
I posted a to a thread and checked for replies an hour or so later, only to find that the thread was gone. It was about what you'd want for your last meal if you were sentenced to death.

The posts, up to the point I had read, were completely on-topic, no bashing, etc. So either the thread was yanked solely for its overall tone (which I don't get) or it significantly devolved in the hour after I posted (which seems doubtful considering the extant replies to that point had been 100% inoffensive and wholly on-topic).

In another case, a thread was locked when a poster divulged the name of Dick Cheney's grandkids. Names that are publicly available on Wikipedia and, I believe, the WH web site. I understand that one of DU's rules mentions no naming of private names, but that seems a little beyond the frame of "private".

My guess is that the admins are told "when in doubt, yank" and I totally understand that, but I really wonder where, in some cases, "doubt" crosses the line into knee-jerk subjectivism.

That said, I'll renew my contribution star once I have some spare cash laying around.

Mostly
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Do you mean this one about last meals?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=4170232

It continued about 5 hours after you posted, but I believe it was moved from General Discussion to The Lounge (which seems reasonable, since it was really just "what's your favourite food?"). If you kept the link to your individual post, rather than the original one, I think it's possible that it could show up as "this thread not found".

If you think that a moderator has misunderstood a thread when locking it, you can send email to DU admin and ask if the reasoning seems sound. The important thing is to be respectful and state your case simply. The mods are volunteers, so Admin, quite correctly, won't accept any bashing of them. I have seen threads moved back between forums after reconsideration, and possibly (though I can't swear to this) unlocked.
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MostlyLurks Donating Member (738 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Yeah, that's the one.
That's odd. I used the "My Posts" feature, not a bookmark or any sort of link and it reported "Thread does not exist" as if it had been erased from existence - no "thread has been moved" notice, nothing. Never had that happen before, so I thought the thread had been killed.

Well, my bad and apologies to the admins.

Mostly
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whatever4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-05 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
11. For what it's worth, this is what I had written
Just for my own personal mollification, this is that un-postable post :)

"Why is that it is not ok on DU to use the "N-word" or make derisive and patently offensive anti-semitic statements, or use the "c-word" when speaking of women, but it is fine to blast away at people of Christian Faith."

Well, for one thing, to use the "N" word or the "c" word is not only offensive, it goes along with all the right-wing, neocon bullies in office right now, and frankly the few people that agree with that agenda wouldn't fit in here at all. It's racist, sexist, and those attitudes make up a large part of our problem.

As for your indignation about Christians being blasted, I have to say, the admin has USED the Christian faith, along with those who seem willing to follow it for selfish ends, and it's painfully difficult to separate the "problems" we're having with these people without sounding as if we're condemning all Christians.

And frankly, there ARE Christians that believe their bible just really ought to be in law, respected, with prayers in school and laws about marriage. It is not our fault, not my fault, and not your fault, that the religion is being USED, but it IS our fault if we can't rise above being hateful about it, on both sides. When we attack a typical "Christian" view being touted by the neocons, it's another handy tool of THEIRS that it sounds as if we target all Christians, when we're only targeting those that want to force their faith. It works to their advantage to divide us in this manner, when we both know, the DU's on this board believe very strongly in religious freedom. It's a given here.

We can't help it that it sounds as if we attack all Christians, if in attacking the agenda of the neocons, it sounds as if we're attacking all of you. It's...not our fault you agree with their philosophy. It's not your fault they see fit to use it.

As one who grew up non-Christian in a VERY Christian midwest, it took me YEARS into my adulthood before I could be fair and not hateful to Christians. I had to meet quite a few intelligent, thoughtful and kind people before I could rise above my prejudice. From one that didn't even think she WAS prejudiced. I got better. I offered up a blanket apology last week, in fact, over all the times I and others have put down Christians as a group. I really am sorry. I've learned better.

So, I've evolved to the point that the 'N' word is hateful to me, because in that one word was embodied the philosophy and the label to allow some humans to see OTHER humans as less human. A convenient hateful label, which parents STILL TO THIS DAY have to explain to their children. I had a hard enough time with my kids, and we aren't black. I cannot FATHOM what that conversation must be like for black families...but all I know is...their children will NEVER hear, or overhear, that word from me or mine. I refuse to use it. NO. I say no and I mean NO! that will not EVER happen because of me or mine. I will NOT be another person to allow it.

For those that had to deal with this word? For those that grew up having to understand they, themselves, could and likely would be the subject of it, with all that history and hatred? For a kid to hear that word the first time, and ask...what's that mean? I think they have the right to "play" with that word. Use that word, laugh about that word, YOU do anything you like with that hateful word, do and say anything, as a god given right, because surely those that know the word can be directed so easily at them, in this day and age, are the ones entitled to use it, lessen it, laugh about it, and in the end, own it. I see NO hypocrisy. Anyone that had to learn what that word meant, and had to understand it likely applied to most, if not all, of their family, likely their ENTIRE history in our nation...they have the right to play with this word in any way they want, to make it laughable, to make it less painful, to take it away from those that would be hateful about it. If you never had to worry about anyone calling YOU the "N" word, you can scarcely understand what it really means, can you? And your children? And your parents, and my gosh, grandparents. Anyone in your family, friends and neighbors, ALL knowing that "word" applies to them in the minds of SO many, and for how long, and for WHY?? Greed and immorality. The convenience of spotting a "black" man a mile off, how very easy to keep THAT population in bondage, generation after generation. Whereas all my Irish ancestors had to do was lose the accent, the black family was still black, so easy to target, and already so run over the families themselves were ripped apart for slavery. It makes me sick. Imagine learning that history, in THIS nation of freedom, to learn people still say that damned word, with almost the same misunderstanding and hatred? It's beyond me, and if you have to ask the question, it's beyond you too. They have the right, seeing as, they're the one's that have to learn they're the object of the hatred. They paid the price for it, whether they wanted to or not. From the day "they" were born.

We don't.

The "N" word. Theirs to use anyway they want, with my personal blessing. Trash that word, play with it like a frisbee, it is yours to laugh about or obliterate, all those who feel subject to it, hurt by it, or left almost unable to deal with the rage they feel over it. Maybe from having to learn what it meant, as a child. Maybe from having to explain what it mean to their own children. All I know is, I won't further it, and I won't imagine for a second I'm qualified to judge the feelings of those affected by it. I don't have a clue how it feels, and the brightest thing to do is just admit it.

As far as women being "c", it's just bad taste, but as a woman, I can say that generally, those that have to use THAT word in conversation show themselves quickly to be lesser, and are treated that way. I wouldn't worry about it. Woman-hating and name-calling are hallmarks of the "other" side, the bigoted side, and are far less typical of this board and democrats in general, all the way around.

Those that like such things, they don't much like our "side", imho
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