Maybe I don';t understand boaters, but I have a question..

[SoCalDem]

Every hurricane, we see GORGEOUS expensive boats swamped, sunken, and crashed onto land.. WHY don't the owners of these big boats just sail them out of harm's way BEFORE the hurricanes arrive? There is PLENTY of warning given..

It always strikes me as silly to see them tethered with ropes, and then getting slammed into docks and each other.. Haven't they learned by now??

In fact, a big ole boat would seem to be the perfect way to evacuate an area..

[Catch22Dem]

Insurance

I guess they figure they'd rather not risk being out on the water in case the storm takes an unexpected turn (as they tend to do) and they know they've insured the thing anyway. Maybe they're thinkin' "hey, new boat!"

[ClusterFreak]

1. Insurance maybe? Don't know, but they might figure 'why bother'?

Let insurance cover their loss, and get a new boat?

[Catch22Dem]

3. HAHA, great minds?

we posted pretty much the same thing at the same time.

[ClusterFreak]

5. True dat!

:toast:

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. A lot of boats belong to people

who don't even live here all year.

Besides when a hurricane is coming you usually have more important things to worry about then your boat. You tie it up and protect it the best you can and then hope for the best.

[progressoid]

4. What - fly all the way from Malibu to Florida just to get my yacht out of

the way? Hell, if it gets damaged, I'll just get a new one with some insurance and FEMA money.

[tk2kewl]

6. usually the location of landfall isn't all that specific...

you'd need to take the boat 100 miles or so to feel that you were clearly out of harms way. that's a long trip on a boat, especially a sail boat.

[PatriotGames]

7. Good point! Just sail away and dock further north.

[northzax]

12. when you're on teh Gulf Side

there really isn't a farther north, is there? the panhandle gets in the way.

[uberotto]

22. When a hurricane is within 500 miles...

of the coast, the waters all along the coast become very dangerous.

So if you were anywhere along the Florida gulf coast, by Friday the waters were already too dangerous for most private boats.

[President Jesus]

8. in the case of sailboats

they generally have a maximum hull speed of under 10mph. It would take a week to get them out of harm's way. It is a BIG deal trying to plan a weeklong journey on a boat.

[SoCalDem]

9. The lovely boats they always show on TV are more like yachts

and these days, don't sailboats have engines too?? just in case??

Sounds like some boat owners are defrauding the poor insurance companies just to get a new boat :evilgrin:

[northzax]

13. I'd much rather lose a boat

than lose me sailing into a hurricane.

[SoCalDem]

14. Well.. there IS that !

I guess I thought most boat owners were good sailors:)

[northzax]

no one is hurricane good

that's just luck

[TahitiNut]

41. Very, very few are even "Tropical Storm Good" (i.e. able to survive)

I remember sailing the Eagle off the coast of Cape Hatteras in a full gale ... under sail! We set a speed record for the 'white b*tch' -- about 26 kph. It was fucking AWESOME!!! HUGE seas! Riding the forecastle (pronounced fo'c'sle) was like a roller coaster! Vertical surge and drop was about 30-35'.

[northzax]

42. is that the coastie Eagle?

she's a beaut, saw her in Monaco of all places one time. I was in a 40 footer during Danielle in '86 (near Trinidad) I never want to repeat that experience.

on edit, just read downthread, cool enough.

[uberotto]

15. Yes, they do have engines...

The larger sailboats have engines with close to 10 hp. My friend, who has a small 32 footer has an engine with all of 3 hp. It will propel the boat at an amazingly fast speed of 3 to 5 knots in smooth waters.

Also, come down to the coast two or three days before a hurricane hits, and you will see that the storm doesn't have to be close to make the open water a very dangerous place to be.

[President Jesus]

30. "hull speed" means that no matter how large the engine...

...the boat cannot go any faster than that, by laws of physics. This is due to the undewater presence of keels.

1.2 mph = 1 knot.

[A-Possum]

31. Sailboats don't go fast even with engines

The maxiumum theoretical hull speed of an average monohull sailboat is about 8 knots (9.2 mph) Even the fastest ocean-going racers typically put in average speeds of 12 knots or so. In the 2005 Transpac, race records were broken with average speeds of 13.9 knots. (About 16 mph)

Windsurfers, small sailboats and multi-hulls go faster because they plane. The record is something like 50 mph by a windsurfer. But large sailboats are displacement hulls.

[DoYouEverWonder]

24. Best thing to do, if you have time,

is to head up a river as far as you can go

Places like the Miami River are usually wall to wall boats tied up together to ride out the storm.

[MADem]

10. All of the reasons noted above, plus

some of these boat owning assholes can not even get underway on their own. They hire crews to do the dirty work. They do not know their port from their starboard, their aft from their stern. They like living the life, but do not want to soil their manicures.

Some could pull the boat out and put it up on skids, or in a boathouse, but they don't do that either.

Note I said SOME...there are plenty of folk out there who have a clue, but they usually secure their vessel appropriately, so we don't see their craft getting pounded into matchsticks.

[TahitiNut]

17. (Uhhhmmm....) "their aft from their stern"????

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[karlrschneider]

18. Or their left from their port!

:D

[TahitiNut]

26. Well, I keep port on the right ...

... and sherry on the left. :silly: :dunce:

[karlrschneider]

35. I keep a frontal lobotomy

er, I mean a bottle in front of me
:party:

[MADem]

32. Yer right! What happens when we do not proofread!!

I will go to the bow and hang my head in shame!!!!

[TahitiNut]

37. Well, go to the stem instead.

:rofl: :evilgrin:

FWIW, this is a photo of the boat I sailed to Europe and back in 1962. (I had a little help, of course.)




I received some very good training in sailing and seamanship, needless to say.
The language is drilled DEEPLY into my psyche.

[MADem]

38. Beautiful vessel--were you on a Tall Ship cruise? nt

[TahitiNut]

40. Yes. I was a cadet at the Coast Guard Academy (for two years)

That's the USCGC Eagle ... their training ship. Each summer there were two cruises: a long cruise, usually to Europe, and a later short cruise, usually just into the Atlantic and back. IIRC, the long cruise was 9 weeks long - 3 weeks over, 3 weeks there (Edinburgh, Amsterdam, Canary Is.), and 3 weeks back. We cut our stay in the Canary Islands short to come back to Washington so JFK could review the ship at the end of the cruise. For that, I was a sideboy - last of the four on his left.

Our course over was in the upper latitudes. (Cold!) Our course back was just above the horse latitudes. (Warm.) On the way back, we holystoned the teak decks for the second time and hung over the side in bos'ns' chairs painting out any stains.

My "sail station" was at the upper topgallant on the foremast. (That's the 2nd highest yardarm on the forward mast.)
As you can see, the Eagle has a split topsail. :evilgrin:

[MADem]

46. I have young relatives who have gone to King's Point,

Mass Maritime, and ME Maritime. Maine has a very good schooner program, if I remember. The kid who went to MA Maritime did a semester at sea thing, but not under sail.

Years ago, I went to a diplomatic function aboard a Spanish tall ship. Lotta work maintaining those, but they are beautiful if you have the people power to keep them up. I've never had occasion to see Eagle, yet--one day, perhaps.

You'd probably get a kick out of the Constitution, if you haven't already seen her. She does not get underway much, they actually did sail her a few years back when they did a massive overhaul of her, but usually she is towed out and turned, then eased back into her berth.

[Lautremont]

19. "Floaters, not boaters,"

as I once heard an old salt say disdainfully about those to whom a yacht is just an extra-big deck chair that floats and has a wet bar.

[DoYouEverWonder]

25. Wow,

you sure make a lot of assumptions about boat owners.

[MADem]

33. No I did not, that is not fair, please reread--I clearly said SOME

SOME does not mean ALL. And I also noted that the ones who do it right are never heard from, because they did it right in the first place.

You should read the full post before slamming me. That was totally unfair, IMO. Sheesh.

[TahitiNut]

28. Q: How do you get a rat out of a lee scupper?

A: ???? :evilgrin:

[ThomWV]

11. Many Reasons

I am a boater and also an off-shore fisherman.

Most private boats are not particularly seaworthy and more importantly most owners would have no business at all taking their boats for long voyages on open water. That is what would be necessary to escape a Hurricane - a very long voyage started long in advance of the storm.

The next problem, besides owners who have no business off shore in their boats, is the simple expense of doing so. If under power even boats of a size that could otherwise be trailered tend to eat one hell of a lot of gas if you run them. A typical 200 hp outboard boat (about 20 feet or so) will only get about 2 miles to the gallon of gas.

Tieing up boats, if done properly, can be done so as to avoid damage in most storms. What usually happens - and this is according to the insurance industry, not me - is that one boat will break loose and blow down a canal smashing into other boat which would otherwise have been safe. This often breaks them loose. Then you have two crashed hulks bearing down on the rest of the boats in the waterway. Take a look at the pictures some times and notice how all the boats are piled up at the end of a canal - well, its the ones on the outside edge that caused the problem in the first place..

[MazeRat7]

16. I have wondered that many times when I see them in piles on the beach.

I used to think that a lot of the boats were small "bay runners" in the under 22' class... but why a commerical fisherman or anyone with a ship over 22' would hang around is indeed a mystery.

Think about it... what a perfect excuse to take off work and go sailing for a week or so...

MZr7

[ThomWV]

20. Have You Ever Done It?

You take a 25' or so boat and run it off shore in just 3-4' seas and it will beat you absolutly to death in a day. A That might get you 200 miles if you are lucky and clearly would not get you out of the storm's way. To think that you could weather the storm off shore in a small boat is simply suicidal.

A lot of folks seem to have nice romantic opnions of what its like to be on the open water in a small boat. Believe me, its not something most folks would be a bit comfortable doing - boatowners or not.

[MazeRat7]

34. Actually yes.

My uncle and I took a Cat 22 from Galveston to Mobile bay. I will not argue it was a hard trip. But that is a relative term to me since I also like tromping around rocky mountain trails with nothing but a backpack for a week or more at a time....

Both will jar your bones, have challenges, and are generally something that the "general population" tries to avoid... *grin.

Your point is spot on however...if I was faced with it again.. I would suggest trailering a craft of that size that distance.

MZr7

[DoYouEverWonder]

27. Gee, maybe I should just take off

and forget about my business, and my house and my vehicles. Yeah, no big deal.

[rzemanfl]

21. The really rich have captains for their yachts who take care of

things like that. As for the rest, be glad the Coast Guard does not have to risk the lives of its personnel rescuing weekend sailors who guessed wrong about where to go, ran aground in unfamiliar waters, miscalculated their fuel consumption, broke down, got lost, etc.

There was a family who tried to outrun Rita or Katrina (I forget which) in their boat that ended up shipwrecked in the 10,000 islands.

[karlrschneider]

23. Here's an old 'boat' joke:

Old Captain Dan was a well known and highly respected skipper for many years. Every morning he would open up the safe in his cabin, take out a piece of paper, look at it and lock it back in the safe.

Nobody ever had the courage to ask him what he was doing. Finally he went to Davy Jones' Locker, as they say, and his crew decided to find out the secret.

They drilled the lock on the safe, opened it up and took out the paper.


It said
















Port left, starboard right


:evilgrin:

[RamboLiberal]

29. A fascinating account of a doomed voyage trying to outrun

Hurricane Mitch is the tale of the Windjammer Fantome. There was a book written and this account was from the Miami Herald. Warning - turn you volume off this is one of those websites that insist on playing music (Amazing Grace - they play it on Windjammer's ships when they leave port). I had a love for the Windjammers after sailing on Polynesia back in 87. My cousin had sailed several times on Fantome. I saw her in port one day, and she was a beauty!

http://www.fortogden.com/fantommiamiherald.html



A CORNERED SHIP, 31 MEN AND A DATE WITH DOOM

Thirty-one men had run for their lives from Hurricane Mitch for a day and a half. They sailed north, sailed south, then tacked east and west, back and forth in futility, behind a little island of cover. But it left them in a virtual vise, walled in between 50-foot waves and 100-mph winds where sea and sky merged into a vast howling whiteout.

To the south and west lay the shoals of Honduras and Belize. To the north and east, more of Mitch. Their young captain tried vainly to thread a needle to safety. But as he clung to the helm two Wednesdays ago, drenched and exhausted, the deck beneath him listing a sickening 40 degrees -- his sense of right, left, up or down was likely lost in the maelstrom of foam and spray.

Experienced mariners can tell you what comes next. You want to lie down and go to sleep. When the ship starts falling apart, you are just waiting -- and wanting -- to die.

On edit here's a site without the music.

http://www.lindabingham.com/Books/Born_On_The_Island/The_Cover/Fantome/fantome.html

[Coexist]

36. during Hurricane Hugo in St. Thomas

a lot of my friends lived on their boats. They all moved their vessels to various places that they thought would be safe. Not one of them would have done it again. Being caught on a 20' sailboat in a tropical storm is too dangerous, much less a hurricane.

One man, who had a pregnant dog, wouldn't stay with anyone (I offered my home) because he thought it would be too traumatic for his dug. He died in that storm when his boat sank.

[TreasonousBastard]

39. I spent a lot of my life insuring yachts...

up until the late '80s, and spent a fair amount of time sailing and fishing in open waters in the Atlantic and LI Sound.

When a storm is coming, a lot of people look for "hurricane holes" where they might be safe. These are protected bays, lagoons, whatever, where they don't expect a big surge or surf. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't.

A lot of people can't get to these places simply because they aren't big enough to hold every boat in Florida, and it would take too long to get there anyway. A displacement hull, sail or power, has a theoretical top speed of the square root of the hull at the waterline-- something to do with the physics of bow and stern waves. There are tricks to get them going a little faster, but rough water and currents make it tough to get from here to there in good time. Sailboats have to tack, too, which makes them even slower.

There is a theory amongst some that taking the boat out to open water is better than leaving it close to shore where it will crash against rocks, jettys, piers... Some who have put this to practice have regretted it. A strong sailboat will have a fair chance of survival in a ferocious storm if the sailor knows about drogues, staysails, etc., and maybe prays a lot.

Many aren't that strong. If anyone knows Ted Turner, ask him about that Fastnet race he survived years ago that sunk a bunch of high-tech racing yachts when a freak monster storm came up on them. Rudders and masts snapped on the ones built for speed, not strength.

Yer typical powerboat can't handle much weather. Most are built to plane in relatively even seas, and even if the boat can handle rough water, the guy pilotng it probably can't. It's almost guranteed to sink when you get to Force 4 or 5, and even the best of the big trawler hulls would be in serious trouble. Top speed in even the faster and better sportfisherman types is well under 40mph, so there is still the problem of outrunning a storm in already heavy seas when you can't reach top speed and have to be constantly steering to attack the oncoming waves properly.

So, you maybe have the boat hauled on land where it might have a better shot at surviving, or you just leave it where it is and hope for the best.

And make sure your insurance is paid up.

[northzax]

43. my logic is, if professional sailors

in open ocean yachts get into trouble, who the fuck am I to mess with it? Having done a TS in the southern carribean, I'd rather solo the Straits of Magellan than deal with a hurricane. I figure either way I die, and in the cold I die faster.

[OneBlueSky]

44. definition of "boat" . . .

"a hole in the water into which you pour money" . . .

[ultraist]

45. Evacuate on a boat?

The water is the last place you want to be when a hurricane comes rolling in. What if projected path is off?

No, you do not want to be on a boat during a hurricane.