Leak case CONTEST, POOL and IMPEACH BUSH petition

[jarnocan]

this pool and petition are both great http://www.millionphonemarch.com/pool.htm Each contender has abrief discription with a link to a pic and more info. the IMPEACH Bush letter is GREAT and more important and ideas info on bottom of page.

this discussion/thread in the ACTIVIST area concerns a contest with prizes on my blog BUT to PROMOTE this cool for fun POOL , and the very SERIOUS IMPEACH BUSH petition that goes to your Senators, REPs and a local paper with YOUR wise and wonderful comments of course!!!! http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=106&topic_id=24600&mesg_id=24624
also can link from my blog http://jarnocan.blogspot.com

[Silverhair]

1. Bush will NOT be removed from office via impeachment.

I am appalled by the incredible ignorance here at DU regarding what impeachment is, what it does, and how it happens.

Impeachment is the process by with the U S House of Representatives brings charges against a sitting POTUS, and the Senate tries that same POTUS for “high crimes and misdemeanors.”

To get a bill of impeachment requires a bill be introduced in the House and it must pass. Since the Republicans control the House, and since Repubs do NOT vote to impeach other Repubs, IT WILL NOT HAPPEN. We need to win a majority control of the House in 06 to even be able to think of bringing a bill of impeachment.

Then, once you have such a bill that has passed, the Senate tries the POTUS. To convict requires a 2/3 majority of the Senate. That is 67 votes. It is IMPOSSIBLE for us to get 67 senators after the next election. If we were to completely sweep the election, we would have only 60 seats. Repubs will NOT vote to convict a Repub POTUS, so an impeachment would fail.

It is a fact that in American elections, a congressperson has about a 98% reelection rate. That goes for both House and Senate. So don’t look for massive change in the Congress.

Bush will leave office on Jan 20, 2009

[napi21]

2. I agree with you. Impeachment isn't possible. BUT....

I question wether Shrub will remain in office until Jan. 09.

For his whole life, someone has getten him out of trouble, no matter what it was. Sometimes legal, sometimes just money.

He HATES anyone who disagrees with him, which has been demonstrated by the people he HAS fired from his administration.

He has constantly been shielded from dissent at his campaign speeches, all the way through today when he goes anywhere.

If those protectors are removed, and the members of Congress, who are worried about their own behinds turn against him (especially after what might be revealed during these iinvestigations), I think he might have a breakdown, health or mental or both, that will force him to leave. I' just not sure he can deal with 3 1/2 years of turmoil.

[SnowGoose]

3. There you go again - beating us over the head with reality.

And I was having such a nice day.

Seriously, though, as long as it's not diverting effort from other fights, it may be that even the talk of impeachment has a value. It reminds people - here and abroad - that Bush is unpopular, has no mandate, and does not speak for Americans when he speaks as POTUS.

It also keeps Bushco occupied so they'll have less time to eff-up the country. That's got to be worth something.

[longship]

4. Agree and disagree.

I agree re: ignorance of impeachment defn.

But I disagree that * cannot be removed from office prior to the end of his term.

What is essential to turn the government around?

1. Citizens need to be vocal and involved.
2. The press needs to report responsibly.
3. The Congress needs to be responsive.

We are now past step one. The citizenry has (and is) rising up against * and his administration. Even during Nixon, we never saw such a quick turnaround. This is one of those Lincoln moments, "you cannot fool all the people all the time." That's what the Repug cabal has tried to do. It not only is no longer working, it is actually accelerating the damage to them. Unfortunately for them, that's the only thing they know how to do.

Step 2 is falling into place. The press is now all over * about his performance in office, his credibility in Iraq, the cronyism, and the numerous Repug scandals. The latest wingnut spin is being flung right back in their faces. The entire DC press corps is in KBH's face about her recent perjury comments. Simple Scotty's press conferences are not so much conference as a war of rhetoric to get S.S. to reveal a nuance of information through the WH stonewall. And Juicy Miller has likely ruined her career and everybody knows it.

Step 3 is the one we need to impeach and then remove from office. I know that they will both be very tough nuts to crack. But I am beginning to be optimistic about step 3. There are some cracks in the the congressional facade. Delay is a start. Amazingly, Frist may also be in trouble. With the repug congressional leadership under siege there will be trouble ahead for that side of the aisle. Most importantly, if public support sinks much further repugs will be getting away from the * agenda faster than Chimp can say, "It's hard work." These guys want to be reelected. With even TX turning against * it looks like there's going to be a huge accounting come 2006.

Well, it ain't perfect. But that's the way I see it.

[jarnocan]

5. Silver-Why are you trolling and repeating the SAME absolutes?

Can you find something more productive to do? I am trying to promote something that I believe sends an important signal, and could along with many other efforts make a difference.
I suppose you think everyone should just go about their normal business because protesting or striking on Nov. 2nd see- www.worldcantwait.org is just another silly waste of time. And Cindy Sheehan and others down in WDC and all around the country- any hope they might make a difference.
Are you waiting for Hillary to save US all? Just wondering.
I think the 'moderate' Dems that roll their (proverbial) eyes at dissidents, and smile and just go along like congress is one happy respectable family, are MORE of a problem than some of the republicans.
boo
Please go start your own nay sayer thread and fill it with all your profound absolutes. Don't Freepers usually speak in absolutes more than DUers?
Also one of the most ignorant things a person can do IMHO-is assume ignorance. I already read your 'facts/details' so I am not ignorant about them- just still feel our democracy is worth fighting for. These coming indicments are serious stuff, and will not be taken lightly by many republicans. I think they might make a world of differnce.

[Silverhair]

6. Because it is REALITY.

We make progress when we operate within reality. And the reality is that a successful impeachment is impossible. Energy spent on impeachment attempts is wasted.

Do you really think that a bunch of Repubs are going to suddenly wake up on morning as liberal Democrats?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

8. 2006 eom

[crispini]

11. I think it's worthwhile getting the meme out there.

If more and more people begin talking about impeachment, it can only hurt the Republicans.

I think it's a useful and very powerful tool that has the potential to really impact public discourse.

If Fitz names Bush as an unindicted co-conspiritor we really need to push the impeachement idea. Out the wazoo. And who cares what the makeup of the House Judiciary Committee is, what the political math is? The fact that the idea is out there and being talked about will do LOTS of damage, politically speaking.

[Silverhair]

7. Oh, and I am NOT a troll.

I simply have not seen anybody who does impeachment threads offer a realistic roadmap on how to get there. All of their roadmaps rely on a large number of Repubs suddenly becoming liberal Democrats.

Show me a roadmap for impeachment that does not involve numerous Repubs converting, and maybe we can talk.

[jarnocan]

9. ABSOLUTES and calling DUers who disagree IGNORANT

IS not reality- It's actually smacks of FREEPER spew, and does not become you or DU.
Indictments - serious ones are coming. I have to believe there is a chance, for a genuine reality check.
Cheney could be indicted even Bush- maybe not- or not right off but even mainstream TV pundits and SOME republicans seem to be getting a clue. (prize) http://jarnocan.blogspot.com (BTW-worth checking out-the freeper type 'Angery Guy' is back on the my blog-if you want to read some really nasty stuff-check out his blog-I will get trash any really inappropriate stuff if he rants on))
Why ATTACK US? Why dismiss something that can help?
Is that productive? I think if you don't want to get involved in a paticular movement fine- but unless you think it is really going to do harm- why deliberately try to sabotage other's efforts?

Sure I don't put a Corzine (nJ) sign in my yard next to the Impeach Bush ones- I would like to but realize that could be counter productive.
But right now I say FULL steam ahead! We have a unique window of opportunity here. Www.worldcantwait.org the http://bushcommission.org and http://www.millionphonemarch.com/impeach.htm impeachbush.org All should be checked out and used to our best advantage. The toll free #s are also a good resouce. They all have good information and resources that can help bring necessary reforms and WHO knows???

Silver- YOU DON'T ; THAT is the one ABSOLUTE I hold to be self evident.

[crispini]

10. Didn't some Republican members of the Judiciary Committee

vote to impeach Nixon? I have to admit, I haven't done the math myself, but it's not outside the realm of possibility? Of course, I say this not knowing the composition of the Judiciary Committee...

[jarnocan]

12. Thanks, Right and the point is

so much more information is finally coming out- long over due. Bush is not a great hero to many republicans / conservatives. The Miers nomination is a good indication of why. Also remember what he did to John McCain. Given the right set of circumstances some may want (finally) to be viewed as making the difficult, but important choices, and on the other hand actually be very happy to take back the GOP, for their own reasons.

Again spewing absolutes and denigrating other DU folks, who are trying to help, is just counter productive. Silver had some real facts- those are welcome of course but the other stuff- is just not necessary.
If you don't want to participate in a particular petition or action don't. Calling people ignorant - because you THINK they might not know or comprehend certain details, that you do- is very silly.
You might find it interesting to scan -(bottom of page) the list of some of the silly hopeful folks who have signed the www.worldcantwait.org 'Call', Many more have signed the http://impeachbush.org and the above one. They are not all ignorant.
I also think this is worth reading -some questions and answers concerning WCW and Nov. 2nd. http://www.worldcantwait.org/faq/