LIBBY FINGERS CHENEY! (NYT Scoop)

[Beetwasher]

Cheney Told Aide of C.I.A. Officer, Notes Show

By DAVID JOHNSTON, RICHARD W. STEVENSON and DOUGLAS JEHL
Published: October 24, 2005
WASHINGTON, Oct. 24 �EI. Lewis Libby Jr., Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief of staff, first learned about the C.I.A. officer at the heart of the leak investigation in a conversation with Mr. Cheney weeks before her identity became public in 2003, lawyers involved in the case said Monday.

--snip--

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/24/politics/24cnd-leak.html?hp&ex=1130212800&en=db7d02c93e5913ef&ei=5094&partner=homepage

The way I see it, this could only have come from either Libby or his lawyer.

[ailsagirl]

1. Holy Moses

Thanks for the story!!

[MelissaB]

2. Thank God they didn't use that title!

:rofl:

[Lex]

4. Ewwwwwww.

[MelissaB]

9. I"m sorry, but I'm still

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[LittleClarkie]

40. Okay, that's comforting

I'm not the only sick one here.

[ignatius 2]

104. Ha, I just saw that and was thinking man he is going to have to bleach

those fingers. Many sickies around I guess.

[FreedomAngel82]

108. Ew!

Now I wonder what Cheney is going to do... Hmm. Is he going to turn on them all for revenge?

[undeterred]

19. eww eww eww

:puke: :puke: :puke:

[Buddyblazon]

39. "Dr. Jellyfingers.....*snaps on rubber glove*...

"Proctologist!"

[Beetwasher]

6. They Should Have! It's Better!

:evilgrin:

[goclark]

8. ROTFL too nt

[ET Awful]

12. Nah, then people would have thought it was a review of Lynn's new book

:evilgrin:

[mirandapriestly]

21. I have a vile visual in my head right now! ugh! nt

[peekaloo]

26. disturbing mental imagery fer sure.

May I join you? :spray: :rofl:

[antigop]

38. Wow! And you thought you hated your job!

ROTFL

[w8liftinglady]

61. LOL!

:toast:

[brainshrub]

43. You are so going to hell for that comment. (eom)

[MelissaB]

52. It looks like I'll be in good company

and I'm still :rofl:

[alcibiades_mystery]

3. Um, Cheney's allowed to tell things to Libby

Libby is his national security advisor, and has the highest clearance.

This is a puff story indicating that nobody did anything wrong, and the NY Times is aiding and abetting again.

[Beetwasher]

11. I Disagree

This puts Cheney right smack dab in the middle of the plot. Libby went directly to reporters w/ this info, that's NOT legal.

[hootinholler]

65. Plus Cheney wouldn't have had need to know on Plame's name.

If I understand it correctly, she would have been called by some code name in briefs, not that I've ever seen presidential briefs (or boxers).

-Hoot

[wryter2000]

102. Yup

Also means Libby lied in his testimony...tack on another perjury charge.

When, oh when, does Fitzmas start?

[Gabi Hayes]

14. so, you're saying that it's OK for Libby to go tell binLaden or

Zarqawi, or anybody else that didn't have security clearance that Plame was working on WMDs?

OK

I'll buy that

[alcibiades_mystery]

22. No, I'm not saying that at all

Nice misinterpretation, though.

I'm saying that the facts presented in this article don't implicate Cheney in wrongdoing, since he is allowed to tell Libby whatever he wants to.

Notice that I didn't say a word about Libby telling anyone, despite your illusions.

[Beetwasher]

34. Actually, It May Very Well Implicate Cheney in A Conspiracy

May very well, indeed, do just that.

[alcibiades_mystery]

41. That's obviously the direction of the prosecutor

This article is an attempt to insulate Cheney, not implicate him.

That's the point.

[Beetwasher]

51. I Dunno

There's some interesting stuff in here, much of it not good for either Libby or Cheney.

"But the notes, now in Mr. Fitzgerald’s possession, also indicate that Mr. Libby first heard about Ms. Wilson �Ewho is also known by her maiden name, Valerie Plame �Efrom Mr. Cheney. That apparent discrepancy in his testimony suggests why prosecutors are weighing false statement charges against him in what they interpret as an effort by Mr. Libby to protect Mr. Cheney from scrutiny, the lawyers said.

The notes do not show that Mr. Cheney knew the name of Mr. Wilson’s wife. But they do show that Mr. Cheney did know and told Mr. Libby that Ms. Wilson was employed by the C.I.A. and that she may have helped arrange her husband’s trip."

--snip--

"But the evidence of Mr. Cheney’s direct involvement in the effort to learn more about Mr. Wilson is sure to intensify the political pressure on the White House in a week of high anxiety among Republicans about the potential for the case to deal a sharp blow to Mr. Bush’s presidency.'

[Gabi Hayes]

49. Oh, ok. what is one to infer from your tacit implication?

and, lighten up, Francis

[alcibiades_mystery]

53. There was no implication

And what you have there is not what is called an inference, dear, but rather a wild, running, headlong leap.

[hwmnbn]

64. The article also says Cheney was under oath....

The notes in Fitzgerald's possession say Cheney told Libby about Plame.

If Libby testified different to protect Cheney, he'd be lying. If Cheney agreed with Libby's testimony, he'd also be lying.

That my friend is perjury. Cheney is implicated.

[ryan_cats]

107. But but but, I thought perjury was a deadly sin?

Watch all the wing nuts who crucified President Clinton about his alleged perjury now say it's no big deal. After all, they have 'ethics' ya know.

[marylanddem]

16. I thought there had to be a "need to know"... n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

37. Unclear

Libby's clearance is high level. The article is implying that Cheney did nothing wrong in telling Libby, whatever Libby may have done wrong afterwards. It's obvious that Fitzgerald is aiming for Cheney here on a conspiracy char4ge, and this leak, probably from Libby's camp, is attempting to clear him on conspiracy, arguing that Plame's identity did not come into play through a conspiracy to release her name (whatever may have happened subsequently), but through "fact-finding" on the situation re: Wilson.

In other words, Fitzgerald has Cheney dead-to-rights discussing Plame with Libby, and they're trying to distance Cheney from whatever conspiracy may have been hatched subsequent to that discussion.

[Scout1071]

24. The question is what did he tell Libby to do about it?

Did he tell Libby to destroy the Wilsons' and anyone else at the CIA that came forward with the truth? Me thinks so.

This also begs the age old question - What did the President know and when did he know it?

[alcibiades_mystery]

44. That's exactly right

And the article says NOTHING on that score. It is an attempt to insulate Cheney by protraying the discussion as fact-finding rather than directive to leak.

[marylanddem]

62. I bet Cheney would - excuse the expression - finger Bush

without blinking an eye if/when his own ass is on the line.

[Jacobin]

30. Unless they were conspiring to out Plame

by yapping to a bunch of media dorks.

then its a crime

[sandnsea]

35. More than that in here

Cheney and Tenet also talked, so that leads back to the SOTU questions and the obvious, of course Tenet knew Plame's job. Cheney didn't use her name, according to this, so where did that come from. And, was there an organized effort to leak this to reporters. It points out the holes that may or may not be filled up, but it isn't a puff piece. And, Rove leaked this, not Libby.

[Patchuli]

42. But did he tell him to tell NYT, etc.?

I doubt 'Scooter' thought that up on his own. Lawyers are saying that it is very doubtful that Libby was acting as a free agent.

And they've all been telling different stories. I don't agree. I think maybe the NYT wants to get back some of the credibility they've lost to the neo-cons.

[ryan_cats]

106. I thought Cheney said he didn't know who Plame was? N/T

[LiberalEsto]

5. What a hideous mental image!

That headline.... Libby fingering Cheney.... must go put head under cold running water....try not to vomit....

[savemefromdumbya]

7. no smoke without fire - eh?

seems someone has been snared?

[Arkana]

10. I really, really, REALLY wish that headline was phrased different.

:puke:

[Skink]

18. How many fingers...

:wtf:

[rfranklin]

57. The entire fist...

with a handful of KY. And he pulled out a bunch of Santorum.

[seabeyond]

78. i was looking for a picture of libby givng cheney the finger

like the middle finger. not outing him, lol

[Scout1071]

13. Holy Sh**. Was this just posted this evening?

[deadparrot]

15. Ignoring the headline; I'm a bit of an idiot,

but does that mean this came out in the GJ proceedings?

[Skink]

23. I think it means an obstruction charge..

The coverup being worse than the crime that sort of thing.

[deadparrot]

28. Okay, thanks.

:popcorn:

Hell, bring Cheney into it, the more the merrier!

[Gato Moteado]

69. i think it came out of his lower GI

nt

[skooooo]

17. I guess the aspens really are turning...nt

[belle]

71. Those aspens are doin' the Peppermint Twist right about now, I'd say

[cynatnite]

20. Am I reading too much into these two paragraphs?

The notes, taken by Mr. Libby during the conversation, for the first time place Mr. Cheney in the middle of an effort by the White House to learn about Ms. Wilson’s husband, Joseph C. Wilson IV, who was questioning the administration’s handling of intelligence about Iraq’s nuclear program to justify the war.

Lawyers said the notes show that Mr. Cheney knew that Ms. Wilson worked at the C.I.A. more than a month before her identity was made public and her undercover status was disclosed in a syndicated column by Robert D. Novak on July 14, 2003.

********

I mean...WOW!!

[Beetwasher]

25. Nope

That's pretty friggin' explosive (though not surprising in the least to any of us, we already knew this, but to see it confirmed is sweet!) and it could only come from Libby's lawyer, unless Fitz started leaking somehow.

[cynatnite]

56. I'm sure my eyes got as big as saucers after reading it...

My gut has told me for months now that Cheney would get indicted. It still tells me that.

Keep in mind though, my gut is wrong 50% of the time :smoke:

[fooj]

46. Nice piece of Prime Rib!

Keep the faith!

[MelissaB]

48. Isn't it beautiful to see in writing?

Shocking, too...

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

27. Lots & Lots Of Indictments.....I Can Smell Them! :-) nt

[Catherine Vincent]

29. You guys need to get your minds out of the gutter!

LOL!

[MelissaB]

31. LBN thread on the "greatest"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1874364

[Pithy Cherub]

32. That's some headline there. A best seller!

The turning of the aspens and the dying of the roots has begun. Has Libby made a deal and this is his way of giving everyone a heads up for what's to come? :freak:

[in_cog_ni_to]

33. It's beginning to look a lot like FITZMAS! Everywhere I go!

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

Damn...now I have butterflies in my tummy...I'M SO DAMN EXCITED!

[democrat in Tallahassee]

36. Wasn't June 13 the day Judy met with scooter? just wondering

[Garbo 2004]

74. Miller met with Scooter on June 23. n/t

[DanCa]

45. Beetwasher your my new best friend

you made my night thanks.

[Kahuna]

47. No wonder the chimp hs been cranky lately.

:wow:

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[bunny planet]

50. Holy shite.

Be still my heart.

[Perky]

54. This is a "smoking gun" and likely the tipping point.

Not necessarily putting Cheney on the hot seat but certainly makes Libby in line for perjury, obstruction, conspiracy and providing false testimony to a Grand Jury.

That's a ten year tour in prison. He is going to be under tremendous pressure to play ball with Fitz and tremendous pressure to keep his mouth shut.

But herea is the thing...White House counsel should be putting a huge firewall bewteen Libby and the VP. but ummm WHite House Counsel is sort of busy these days.

I am telling you absent that protection any conversation between Libby and Cheney is going to be looked at potential obstruction

Cheney better get a lawyer.

[Quixote1818]

72. Certainly they asked Cheney if he had given this info to Libby

If he said he hadn't then Cheney is in the same boat Libby is in!

Right?

[uppityperson]

55. Best subject line of the night. nt

[Beetwasher]

59. I Try!

:evilgrin:

[uppityperson]

63. thank you for the laugh of the night

this will hold me over for a while. Very good.

[progressoid]

58. Really? That's probably how he's kept his job for so long.

Gentle fingers.

[spanone]

60. Mr. Cheney, The Prosecutor will see you NOW!

You Evil Bastard.

[sunnystarr]

66. Cheney got it from TENET!!! (nt)

[jus_the_facts]

67. I will not get my hopes up....

....I will NOT get them up...believe it when I see it....sigh. :hi:

[Samantha]

68. Tenet told Cheney -- that's okay because both would have top security

classifications. When Cheney told Libby, that would pass as well because Libby had a top secret security clearance. If Cheney was the one told Libby to leak to reporters, that would be ordering the passing of classified information. That's not okay. He will be forced to resign and will be plea bargaining. It he attended the WHIG meetings as has been previously reported, he also participated in a conspiracy. It was also previously reported Cheney was interviewed by Fitzgerald's office, but not under oath. If Cheney did not tell the literal truth, he would be guilty of making false statements.

It was also previously reported Tenet was furious the DOJ would not investigate the leak, so the CIA performed an investigation. The report was submitted, but nothing happened. I think Tenet would have cooperated.

[tiptoe]

77. Is Tenet required to disclose covert status to cleared parties, even if...

not specifically asked by those parties?

I dunno...but it would seem a precautious thing to share between parties with clearance to know, for the purpose of heading off the very kind of (apparently, for the time being) "political retribution" that happened to Ambassador Wilson.

1) Is the CIA Director required to disclose covert status to parties with clearance to know?
2) Are parties with clearance to know required to explicitly inquire about covert status, when learning of CIA employment?

Is there any excuse for Cheney and Libby -- "presumably with clearance to know the government's deepest secrets" -- NOT to have been made aware (initiated by Tenet) or become aware (initiated by Cheney/Libby) of Ms. Wilson's covert status??

[Media_Lies_Daily]

82. What if Tenet hung Plame out as bait, knowing that Cheney would bite?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

81. Tenet was the one who formally, and publicly, requested that the CIA....

...start a criminal investigation to find out who publicly exposed Valerie Plame.

Who knows, maybe Tenet hung Plame's name in front of Cheney knowing that he would bite on it, and use it to not only get back at Wilson, but to also eliminate Plame's WMD-tracking global network.

Game, set, and match: Tenet.

[usregimechange]

70. Smoking gun show?

[drb]

73. These hot shit chickenhawk types sure give up easy...

... when push comes to shove!! I guess Libby didn't want Guckert doin' any pushin' and shovin' during their time together in the cell block!

[ryan_cats]

109. I don't think he wants two years in a Federal pound me in the ass prison!

I don't think he wants two years in a Federal pound me in the ass prison!
I just wish Fitz would have waited a while so Bush isn't in office to issue pardons galore. Then again, maybe his ability to pardon people stops if he's in prison!!!! I can dream can't I?

[milkyway]

75. Sounds like it's coming from Rove's lawyer. If it is Libby's lawyer, he's

doing it against the apparent wishes of Libby, who's trying to shield Cheney (unless they know it's coming out anyway, so they're trying a pre-emptive spin).

[Beetwasher]

79. How Would Rove's Lawyer Know About Libby's Notes?

:shrug:

[No Exit]

76. Notice the article says Cheney was interviewed UNDER OATH!

That means if Cheney lied, they can prosecute him!

And what one of these criminals HASN'T lied so far??

[Catherine Vincent]

80. MSNBC has it as "Breaking News" on Tucker's show right now

[Lex]

83. kick

:kick:

[notadmblnd]

84. Libby fingers Cheney...

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/24/politics/24cnd-leak.html?hp&ex=1130212800&en=db7d02c93e5913ef&ei=5094&partner=homepage

WASHINGTON, Oct. 24 — I. Lewis Libby Jr., Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief of staff, first learned about the C.I.A. officer at the heart of the leak investigation in a conversation with Mr. Cheney weeks before her identity became public in 2003, lawyers involved in the case said Monday.

Notes of the previously undisclosed conversation between Mr. Libby and Mr. Cheney on June 12, 2003, appear to differ from Mr. Libby’s testimony to a federal grand jury that he initially learned about the C.I.A. officer, Valerie Wilson, from journalists, the lawyers said.

The notes, taken by Mr. Libby during the conversation, for the first time place Mr. Cheney in the middle of an effort by the White House to learn about Ms. Wilson’s husband, Joseph C. Wilson IV, who was questioning the administration’s handling of intelligence about Iraq’s nuclear program to justify the war.

Lawyers said the notes show that Mr. Cheney knew that Ms. Wilson worked at the C.I.A. more than a month before her identity was made public and her undercover status was disclosed in a syndicated column by Robert D. Novak on July 14, 2003.

[Catherine Vincent]

85. dupe

[notadmblnd]

94. then fetch a moderator and have them delete it

nt

[Catherine Vincent]

96. geeze, you don't have to get uptight about it.

I was trying to be helpful. :hi:

[notadmblnd]

97. I'm not uptight

but I see subject after subject repeated here daily (sometimes 5 and 6 times) and no one moving or deleting them. It would have been helpful if you had provided the link in your post. But it seemed to me that this bothered you, so I made a suggestion to rectify the situation. Sorry if you took it personal.

[Catherine Vincent]

98. Didn't take it personal. No worries!

Merry Fitzmas!

[yellowcanine]

86. Libby fingers Cheney in leak probe? I am sure glad you didn't say it that

way because it would have sounded even more obscene. Heh.

[notadmblnd]

89. I was thinking that too...

just a little 5th grade humor.

[mcctatas]

93. Yep, I giggled when I saw the thread...

then I gagged when I conjured up a disturbing mental picture to go along with it.:rofl:

[hopeisaplace]

99. and lied about it!

now they'll impeach 'em all

[mike_c]

87. oh this is SO recommended....

Drive a wooden stake through that undead rat bastard's black heart!

[spindrifter]

88. What do you do when they notify you

that you will be testifying before the GJ, Scooter? Do you consult a lawyer and review all of your notes--you know, use a search function--or ask your aids or secretaries to prepare a listing of all of your memos, notes, emails, calendars, and other aids de memoire? Or do you just dum-ass it, go in there and act like you have a pretty good, but not too good, memory of what you said to whom and when about those sticky little details that the GJ is grilling you about? Aw shucks, ya got me there.

[cynatnite]

90. Anyone think it's possible that Libby cut a deal with Fitz?

I know it's unlikely, but that's the only way I see something like this coming out. Maybe he's giving up Cheney to save his own ass.

[MellowOne]

91. It's all gonna get so good before it's over.....n/t

[Canadian Socialist]

92. Before I even read this thread, may I say

ewwwww! The mental image is even too much for me to bear (bare? I have been imbiding, so I am not sure about which is correct.) How about I just say, it is too much for me to accept. Is that okay?

[Lex]

95. GD thread started earlier tonight.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5156688&mesg_id=5156688

[Beetwasher]

100. Morning Kick! It's Raining, It's Ugly Out, But Boy Are These Headlines

a thing of beauty.

[helderheid]

101. let it be fitmas...

[geniph]

103. Now, THERE'S a visual I didn't need

Thanks one whole hell of a lot!

:puke:

[ryan_cats]

105. We need a graphic

We need a graphic where Cheney morphs into Spiro Agnew. I think Gerald Ford is still available and willing to trade a pardon for the VP slot.

[arwalden]

110. ... And Mrs. Cheney Is None Too Pleased!! That's HER Job!!