Bono on the religious right-from new RS interview

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

Q -What do you think of the evangelical movement that we see in the United States now?

A- I'm wary of faith outside of actions. I'm wary of religiosity that ignores the wider world. In 2001, only seven percent of evangelicals polled felt it incumbent upon themselves to respond to the AIDS emergency. This appalled me. I asked for meetings with as many church leaders as would have them with me. I used my background in the Scriptures to speak to them about the so-called leprosy of our age and how I felt Christ would respond to it. And they had better get to it quickly, or they would be very much on the other side of what God was doing in the world.

Amazingly, they did respond. I couldn't believe it. It almost ruined it for me -- 'cause I love giving out about the church and Christianity. But they actually came through: Jesse Helms, you know, publicly repents for the way he thinks about AIDS.

I've started to see this community as a real resource in America. I have described them as "narrow-minded idealists." If you can widen the aperture of that idealism, these people want to change the world. They want their lives to have meaning. And it's one of the things that the Democratic Party has missed out on. You know, so much of the moral high ground in the past was Democratic: FDR, RFK, Cesar Chavez. Now I suppose it's Hillary's passion for cheaper medical care. And Teddy Kennedy, of course.

more at:
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/8651280

[Erika]

1. I can't wait until the right wingers start picking up the health tabs

Maybe Bono can give us an address to send the bills to.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

2. OK, I'm done

Screw Bono.

"These people want to change the world. They want their lives to have meaning. And it's one of the things that the Democratic Party has missed out on."

Dude, we didn't miss diddily. We KNOW these ugly little fascists want to change the world. They want to change it until they rule it. We've known it all along. That's why we DON'T want anything to do with them.

Bono, wanting to rule the world is NOT a virtue. And, NEWSFLASH, those who rule the world seldom care about those who suffer in it.

"Jesse Helms, you know, publicly repents for the way he thinks about AIDS."

Jesse Helms told him he didn't think of AIDS as being, what, a "queer" disease, a "judgment from God?" What? How gullible does one rock star have to be?

Somebody tell Bono that credence, like faith, without proof, like works, is dead.

[FreedomAngel82]

4. Yep

I'm sure Jesse Helms is right on the bandwagon with helping out AIDS. :eyes: And yes the fundies want to convert everybody. Forget about freewill.

[Erika]

5. I just asked Rollingstones where I should forward a bill to Bono

for a 43 year old man who has been diagnosed with diabetes and who has lost everything because he did not have insurance. He cannot get the insurance and can't pay for the medicine.

[1932]

10. Why did you do that?

[belle]

22. Well, he's got just a bit of an ego, has our Bono...

[JDPriestly]

3. He has a point.

The current Republican right-wing philosophy is completely incompatible with Christianity.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

6. exactly-if the knee-jerks would stop for a sec.

he's actually saying that the way to get throug to the fundie masses is to appeal to their better angels.

make religion about deeds and not homophobia and abortion hot button b.s.

the rest of the interview is not online, but it's in the new rs

bono talks about the war, praises clinton to the high heavens and talks about their friendship, and expresses frustration at holding his tongue when dealing with rw politicians

it's a great read and proves he's on our side

[democracyindanger]

7. Then explain the swipe at Ted Kennedy.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

8. what swipe?

it's meant in sincerity. bono is a friend of kennedy and spoke last year at an event honoring him.

he says that kennedy and clinton (who i disagree with him on) are examples of the old democratic spirit

[melody]

13. Sorry, I have no time for Jesse Helms' friends

If he knew a 1/10th of the crap Helms wrought on the people of this country, he wouldn't be giving him a gold star for one tiny act of conscience.

[Loonman]

25. Ha ha

Good luck trying to get the rabid kneejerkers to believe that. Why can't they eat some tofu and STFU. Bono is an honorable man, and he's done more for humanity than most.

[melody]

36. this isn't an argument, it's a drive-by insult

I'm far from a rabid kneejerker. I'm glad you're a fan of his, but I'm not talking about his music, I'm discussing his politics.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

55. A nice sentiment, but

these RW Religion Industry monsters don't HAVE any "better angels." They're demons clear to the bone. They take their cues from Robertson and Falwell and Dobson and James Kennedy and Tony Perkins ("Norman!") and their "philosophy" has utterly nothing to do with the message promulgated by Yeshua the brown-skinned Palestinian Carpenter.

Their "better angels" are only slightly less hateful than their worse ones.

Bono (whom I am more and more inclined to nickname "Sonny,") might do well to recall the old adage about what happens when one lies down with dogs.

[1932]

9. Excellent quote. He's exactly right. Liberals need to frame their position

in terms of values.

[melody]

16. The problem isn't the liberals. The problem is the religious right

Bono is sucking up to/making nice with the religious right, probably for his own religious reasons, while picking on the one group of this country truly trying to make a difference.

They want to change the world? Tell them to change their own lives and leave the rest of us alone.

[1932]

23. Uh, the religous right vote, and what's wrong with trying to appeal

to people's better nature? Here's something Lincoln said about appealing to ACTUAL MORTAL enemies in the final paragraph of his first inaugural address:

I am loath to close. We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory, stretching from every battle-field, and patriot grave, to every living heart and hearth-stone, all over this broad land, will yet swell the chorus of the Union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.

If Abraham Lincoln thought that the union could be rejoined by appealing to the better angels of our nature, I think people like Bono and all democrats can imagine moving forward by appealing to the better angels of the religous right.

Sometimes I can't believe the things I read here.

And where is Bono picking on anyone in this quote?

[melody]

37. Bono is no Lincoln. I knew Lincoln... no wait, I'm not that old...

They HAVE NO better nature. We're talking about the religious far-right - Helms people, not the masses. If Bono can pick on the Democrats, who are easy targets (and he very clearly and obviously does - witnesses his comment about their failures), then why not attack the real problem? I'm so tired of people enabling bullies like Helms by tossing them merciful energy and then sticking it to the very people who are trying to do something good. Maybe Bono thinks the Dems will still buy his records.

[1932]

39. That makes no sense.

Bono is saying that even Helms could be convinced to do the right thing once the issues were framed in terms of the religion he claimed to care about.

There are so many religious right voters who are NOT as ideologically motivated as Helms. If Helms could be convinced to do the right thing on one issue, there is hope for everyone else.

Lincoln and Bono are right about this.

And by the way, I'm not comparing Lincoln to Bono. I'm comparing a sensible argument about holding the union together in a bloody battle against the injustice of slavery to a sensible argument about convincing the religious right to vote in ways that alleviate misery in the world. There was as much at stake then as there is now and the logic is the same. People who seem so wrong do have "better angels" to which you can appeal to help move society forward progressively, and just as Lincoln believed that was the way forward then, Bono believes it is now, and they are both right. If Lincoln had not based the fight against slavery in moral terms, injustice would have prevailed for much longer than it did.

[melody]

42. Lets just agree to disagree

I think the issue of our dispute is that we have variant acceptances. We'll just have to call the matter a draw.

Incidentally, the subject line was a bit of gentle good humor.

[1932]

46. No. Let's talk about it until we all come to a reasonably informed

conclusion about what Bono is talking about.

It's too important to leave to misunderstanding.

And btw, my subject line was a response to your argument and not your subject line.

[melody]

50. I think most such discussions are useless

I respect your position, but I've made my last post to the thread.

[1932]

52. Be careful this attitude doesn't shift towards thinking that listening to

discussions is useless.

That's a good way to get into an intellectual rut where you start believing a lot of shit that isn't supported by the facts and by logic.

[melody]

11. I was about to order a U2 CD for a niece for Christmas

I believe I'll be buying her something else now.

It's the same crap we keep hearing -- giving the benefit of the doubt to this huge movement of theological thugs, but knocking good Democrats because they are imperfect in their attempts to do good. Something tells me Bono's biases are showing.

[AntiCoup2K4]

14. Bullshit.

If you go back and read what Bono said, he's calling out the corporatist DLC "democrats" for abandoning the traditions of FDR, JFK, etc, which is exactly what they have done. He then credits Teddy Kennedy and (though I'll be damned if I know why) Hillary with at least trying to keep some form of compassion alive.

Bono's right. The voting records of DLC "democrats" in congress prove it.

[melody]

18. sorry, again, I have no patience with Helms apologists

Why doesn't he go after the religious right for the vociferous political garbage they hurl at us all instead of knocking the Democrats? The DLC is definitely part of the problem, but the far right is a bigger part.

[zanne]

31. It's called "opportunism"

He's trying to agree with both sides of the issue. He's not objective; he's an opportunist.

[ripple]

40. An opportunist for the noblest of causes

He knows that people need help RIGHT NOW, regardless of who is running the show. I think it speaks volumes to his commitment to humanity that he is willing to temporarily set aside his personal political beliefs and ideals so that people can get the help they so desperately need.

[rpannier]

17. What good Democrats did he knock

I read it as, "Appealing to the giving of yourself side of Chritianity. The WWJD aspect that so many Christians talk about."
Besides, if people have truely repented and seen the error of their ways, who are we to say, "you're not welcome."
Like it or not they make up about 40% of the electorate. 3/4 Christians go to Church every Sunday. We have to speak with and to these people in a way we want to be spoken to. Many Christians are well educated accomplished men and women. Derision and a better-than-thou attitude gets us nothing.

[melody]

19. This is a knock

"If you can widen the aperture of that idealism, these people want to change the world. They want their lives to have meaning. -->And it's one of the things that the Democratic Party has missed out on.<-- You know, so much of the moral high ground in the past was Democratic: FDR, RFK, Cesar Chavez. Now I suppose it's Hillary's passion for cheaper medical care. And Teddy Kennedy, of course."

So he pats the right wing on the head and disses the Dems?

Sorry, sounds to me like there's some truth to the Santorum rumors we had heard. If I'm wrong, fine, but till then, I'm on the fence.

[1932]

24. I can't believe you think he's knocking Cesar Chavez, FDR and RFK in that

quote. He is complimenting Hillary for her focus on health care, and the man (as is elsewhere noted) is FRIENDS with Kennedy!

He is not knocking these people.

Jeez.

[melody]

34. No, I don't think that. He's comparing Dems now to Dems then

I think that's very obvious in the wording.

Beyond which fact, I pointed out the knock very clearly:

-->And it's one of the things that the Democratic Party has missed out on.<--

How is that NOT an insult?

[1932]

38. I think you are very confused.

Jim Wallis has written an entire book on this issue in an effort to help progressives understand and win the votes of values voters, and Dems from Wes Clark to Howard Dean have admitted to reading that book, and many democrats say that it's an invaluable lesson for Democrats. I'm afraid to ask this because it's opening the door to an absurd response, but would you say the say thing you're saying about Bono about Wallis too? Is he the enemy of Democrats because he wrote a book that tries to help Democrats understand why it's important to frame your values-based policies as based on values? George Lakoff wrote a book called Moral Politics which makes the same argument. Does that make Lakoff the enemy of Democrats? Bono is in good company when he makes this point.

Furhtermore, Bono and Lakoff and Wallis are exactly correct on this point. I don't think any reasonable person could say that the Democratic PARTY has not done a good job of articulating their positions to values voters -- however many Democrats (like MLK and Chavez) have done just that outisde of party politics. And you can't deny that Democrats like FDR (on economic and social justice) and Hillary (on health care) and Ted Kennedy (in the same way as FDR) have values on their side.

It's absurd to to turn around and try to banish from the public debate or cast as enemies anyone who points this out.

[melody]

43. How is his specific remark about Democrats not an insult?

Again, I ask:

-->And it's one of the things that the Democratic Party has missed out on.<--

How is that NOT an insult?

He very clearly praises Helms but knocks Democrats. No grey area in that.

[1932]

45. Is it an insult when Jim Wallis and George Lakoff have said it?

Is it not true?

They're all saying it because they want the values Democrats express in their policy to come to bear on society through Democrats getting elected and having those policies made into law.

How is that an insult?

[melody]

49. It's an insult contexted to a compliment to Helms

He's playing to the right-wing audience.

Wallis and Lakoff didn't also compliment Helms.

[1932]

51. RS readers are a right wing audience?

My reading of that quote is that he's saying that EVEN Helms could be convinced to vote the moral way on these issues once the argument was framed in terms of morals.

I honestly don't know if Wallis or Lakoff mention Helms directly (and I certainly could imagine them citing him in exactly the same way Bono does), but their books are about how to get people who support Helms to support progressives policies -- ie, to vote for progressives when they have the chance and to put pressure on their representatives, regardless of party affiliation, to behave morally and eithically when they legislate and when they execute the laws.

[LostInAnomie]

12. What a happy delusion that we can make nice with the Religious Right.

Bono can fall for the lip service but I sure as hell am not. Sure they say they are all for stopping AIDS but only as long as we play by their rules. If the solution isn't abstinence they aren't interested.

Maybe the magnanimous Bono can ask them for money to set up a prevention education program, a free condom program, or anything else that isn't a retarded pipe dream and see how far it gets him.

[AntiCoup2K4]

15. Again, that is NOT what he said!

Are you the same people that fell for that Santorum/NewsHax "fundraiser" lie a couple weeks ago?

[LostInAnomie]

21. I haven't read the article beyond what was posted...

... but the evangelicals are only interested in helping if it conforms to their ideology. If St. Bono wants to throw his lot with their moronic abstinence education then good for him, but I would rather spend time working towards solutions that actually work in the real world.

It is a moot issue anyway. Evangelicals will never vote Democratic because we won't let their warped interpretation of God rule the party.

[melody]

35. Well said n/t

[AntiCoup2K4]

20. A better description of how Bono views the religious reich....

What draws you so deeply to Martin Luther King?

So now -- cut to 1980. Irish rock group, who've been through the fire of a certain kind of revival, a Christian-type revival, go to America. Turn on the TV the night you arrive, and there's all these people talking from the Scriptures. But they're quite obviously raving lunatics.

Suddenly you go, what's this? And you change the channel. There's another one. You change the channel, and there's another secondhand-car salesman. You think, oh, my God. But their words sound so similar . . . to the words out of our mouths.

So what happens? You learn to shut up. You say, whoa, what's this going on? You go oddly still and quiet. If you talk like this around here, people will think you're one of those. And you realize that these are the traders -- as in t-r-a-d-e-r-s -- in the temple.

Until you get to the black church, and you see that they have similar ideas. But their religion seems to be involved in social justice; the fight for equality. And a Rolling Stone journalist, Jim Henke, who has believed in you more than anyone up to this point, hands you a book called Let the Trumpet Sound -- which is the biography of Dr. King. And it just changes your life.

Even though I'm a believer, I still find it really hard to be around other believers: They make me nervous, they make me twitch. I sorta watch my back. Except when I'm with the black church. I feel relaxed, feel at home; my kids -- I can take them there; there's singing, there's music.

[Chovexani]

47. Hey quit that!

There's no place here for reading the actual article and using logic and stuff! :sarcasm:

[Clark2008]

26. How can anyone say Bono is patting the Religious Reich

on the head with this quote?

He's basically blasting the "holier than thou" crowd with their belief that one can get into heaven simply by believing in Christ, but doing nothing to show their beliefs.

Just because he gives Jessie Helms slight credit for actually doing SOMETHING doesn't mean he thinks Helms is the end-all, be-all.

And, so what that he slightly pans Hillary Clinton? She deserves it. She hasn't done squat for the lower and middle class since she invited the health insurance companies into her meetings to "fix" health care.

[stepnw1f]

27. I Say... Good for Him!

If somebody can constructively get those on the right to respond to something positively, then good! I think those dying of AIDs or suffering with HIV would appreciate all the help they can get. Just my opinion.

Interesting how people dismiss this soooo quickly!

[Clark2008]

28. That's EXACTLY how I feel about it.

The more these fundies are exposed to other people and ways of life and backgrounds, hopefully, the more well-rounded they'll become and see the error of their hateful ways.

Now, THAT is being a Christian: loving the sinner and teaching away the sin (and it IS a sin to hate).

[stepnw1f]

29. We Have Many Things in Common

It's hard to see when so angry. And for those who are not Christians, understand well what you just said about being Christian. It's called forgiveness and reconciliation. But first of all, is finding COMMON GROUND.

[Clark2008]

30. Common ground for the common good. eom

[zanne]

32. If it's a "SIN" to hate...

I'm going to hell for sure, because I absolutely HATE these pseudo-Christians.

[PunkPop]

33. I would respectfully disagree with Bono about "this community".

They might be idealists but they're certainly not a resource. And their "ideals" are nothing that interests me. My ideals include the separation of church and state, and tolerance for alternative lifestyles.

Any group of people who helped to put these criminals in charge are not a "resource". Sorry.

[ripple]

41. Money is the most tangible resource there is

If he can get these folks to donate for the sake of AIDS treatment and research, they are indeed a resource

[PunkPop]

53. I'm referring specifically to what he says in the interview.

He says "a real resource in America", not a real resource for fighting AIDs.

Fine, let Bono suck all the money he can out of them. I've got nothing against Bono. If he can take their money for his causes all the better.

I'm more worried about them POLITICALLY, and I'm going to fight them with every tool at my disposal. That is my method of making the world a better place.

They are BAD for America.

[ripple]

44. I hope the Bono critics

Are also willing to tell a child dying of AIDS that while there is medication that could help them, they will not be getting it. Not because there isn't money to obtain it, but because some people place more value on their own self-righteous indignation than on the life of a dying child. Repeat a million times over.

[onenote]

48. well said

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

54. read the whole interview

which, unfortunately, is in print. he talks about the war, clinton, having to deal with bush. it's agreat read and kind of cleared up some doubts i had about my teenage hero.

bono's agood guy. and the only good to come of bush is the (paltry) bit of aid he gave to africa. it may not be enough, but w/o bono and geldof's hard work, it would never have happened.

and as for kennedy, you guys forget bono spoke at an event honoring ted for a lifetime of service during last year's DNC. he loves ted as a fellow irishman and liberal.

trust me, this guy's on our side.