I have no answer to this. (stumped)...Can anyone here on DU help me?

[BigBearJohn]

I have been trying to turn an acquaintance away from the political
dark side. Then, today he asks me... "If the Bush administration is
so damn powerful, why didn't they just PLANT WMD's in Iraq to
cover themselves. Surely, if they are as powerful as you claim them
to be, it would have been a relatively minor task to achieve."

Anybody have an intelligent answer to give him? I'm stumped.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

1. Even they wouldn't stoop that low

because they know they'd get caught.

[Vincardog]

8. Valarie was on to their plan. That is why they outed her and her company.

Or you could say they are too incompetent to get away with planting WMDs. Powerful yes lazy too.

[cantstandbush]

58. They did plant WMDs. The WMDs were stolen by Iraqis who were

double agents and who double-crossed us.

[stop the bleeding]

2. Kinda of hard with all of the satellites, some other country or

private company would have spotted this. Just my opinion

[Der Blaue Engel]

3. They were afraid it would get into the wrong hands?

:shrug:

Arrogance, I think, is the most likely answer. They didn't think anyone cared.

[jedicord]

4. Too many watchdogs were looking for the US to do that very thing.

They couldn't do it without getting caught. Just think, if they had been caught planting WMD "evidence", how much worse it would have been for them!

[arwalden]

5. Fear Of Being Caught... No Plausible Denial Cover Story?

[proiowadem]

6. They have great political power

its when they try to put their ideas into motion is when they screw it up.

[AlCzervik]

7. it was never about the wmd's or lack there of, thats how they sold

it and i'm sure they've been winging it all along. "Well EVERYBODY said they had weapons, the french, the germans, even Bill Clinton!! it's not our fault thay weren't there but since we are there already we're staying"

[soothsayer]

9. One reason they couldn't is because the mobile WMD labs they

would have planted were designed by that maryland dude they tried to blame the anthrax on (remember him?). He would have sung like a bird if those showed up. Mebbe Scott Ritter could have debunked planted weapons, too.

[GumboYaYa]

10. Because real professionals like Hans Blix would have

demanded to see the proof and any ginned up evidence would be easily detectable. Chemicals have distinct markers that can identify when and where they were manufactured. Germ lines have traceable DNA. Any real proof they tried to plant would not fly.

[Lochloosa]

43. Bingo...everything can be traced to it source now.

nukes, germs, spit. It would be almost impossible to plant anything.

[Lex]

11. I think part of the reason they blew Valerie Plame's cover

was to blow the cover of the company-front she worked for "Brewster Jennings" which monitored arms sales, movement, and manufacture in the Middle East.

If Cheney got rid of Brewster Jennings Co. then there would be less interference in moving the WMDs to Iraq.

But it didn't work out because they didn't expect the firestorm that happened about outing her.

[Little Star]

12. Judy Miller

Didn't Judy have a date that was canceled during the attempted planting of WMD?:shrug:

[converted_democrat]

40. Well, I don't know, but I'm going to go look it up right now..

I'm off to google, I'll let you know if I find anything!!!

Oh, and welcome to DU!!

[Demrock6]

13. Iraq was being watch closley....

Is also the same reason we know Saddam did not move the weapons to another country.

I am sure it crossed Bush's mind though.

[drdtroit]

14. Here's a link for you,

they actually did try but got caught.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0413-02.htm
Peace

[papau]

20. you posted as I was going to! They got caught because the "natives"

saw what they were doing!

http://www.americanpolitics.com/20040420Baker.html

[drdtroit]

31. Thanks for the link.

Peace
;-)

[BigBearJohn]

35. OMFG!!! IS THIS THEIR "GET OUT OF JAIL FREE" CARD OR WHAT?#!@#$

[patrice]

15. They assumed they were going to be greeted with roses, so

They did not work up and implement Plan C - Plant the WMDs ourselves. Such a project would have required quite a bit of time to get things lined up before they went in, and they just didn't think it would matter, after they went in it was, and still remains, too chaotic to do it. Imagine for instance the problem of which of the Iraqis you trust to help you find the "evidence"? You can't do it on your own, because no one would believe it. Chalabi turned out to be a double agent, and any of the others could have sold the information to the rest of them for a whole lot of political capital in the new government.

[politicaholic]

16. That's a diversion...

Basically, "If they're so corrupt, then why didn't they take the corruption to the highest degree?"

That's the diversion. Here's the counter:

"The fact that they didn't hide the body does not exonerate them of murder."

You may want to help your friend to work through their own talking points themselves with common sense.

[texpatriot2004]

17. That was their plan but it was thwarted. Plame's network was on

to them and someone was able to keep them from planting the weapons. I have researched this for a few months now; many DUers have researched this for months and months. Suffice it to say that was their plan. They failed to plant them. It pissed them off. Furthermore, they knew that someone was on to them...that someone was Valerie Plame et al.

[hippiegranny]

39. Hey maybe the whole Wilson/Plame thing is backwards

Their whole intention was to knock out Plame and BJ so they could plant the weapons - that is why they sent Wilson to Niger, knowing he would sing and they'd have a plausible excuse to out his wife. If so, they twisted themselves up in their own web!

[Overseas]

47. I had always suspected as much... Thanks for investigating. eom

[texpatriot2004]

51. It's fascinating (I would like the story better if it wasn't true and I/we

weren't living it) that said though it is a riveting story once you start researching the layers are many and the plot gets thicker and thicker.

I don't know who foiled the WMD plants in Iraq. There is some implication that it was Plame/BJ and that network but I can't find the answer to that. I may never know that part but I am eternally grateful to whoever did it.

[yodermon]

18. They tried.

They failed.
Google "Nelda Rogers".

on edit:
also see posts like this on DU, http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5049555 :

To answer all of these questions, think about this: The Bushites were trying to plant WMDs in Iraq, to be "found" by Judith Miller--a "find" that would make the CIA (who had objected to the Niger forgeries, and the war) look like fools--discredit them, and make them more vulnerable to purges by the Cheney/Rumsfeld neocons; a "find" that would justify the war, save Bush's and Blair's political skins, and rehabilitate Miller's journalism career with a triumphant "scoop" that would "prove" her right about Saddam's weapons.

[tx_dem41]

19. You're not going to like it, but, yes, I have an intelligent answer.

Your friend has a good point.

[BigBearJohn]

24. Ouch. You're bursting my bubble. (but thanks)

[Onlooker]

21. The didn't need to

They used WMDs as a means to start the war. Once the war was started, they knew they could handle the political fallout, and they have for the last 6 years.

Further, there would have been huge risks with planting WMDs. They would have had to plant them where inspectors had not recently been. They would have had to trust a number of people to ensure the plant worked. There would have been at least some danger that the WMDs would have ended up in the wrong hands. (You can't very well plant WMDs in the arsenals of our Iraqi allies.)

They probably considered it, but decided the risk would be too great.

[papau]

25. This says they tried and failed

http://www.americanpolitics.com/20040420Baker.html

[H2O Man]

22. They had no need to. n/t

[cry baby]

23. Just speculation, but here is a theory...

By outing Plame, the company Brewster Jennings was also revealed to be a front company. BJ was actually a covert group watching closely the WMD world. BJ would probably be able to trace any planted WMDs, so they outed BJ and Plame. It wasn't a coincedence that Plame and BJ were in the loop with regards to WMDs when they were outed. BJ might have been the main target of this admin.

After the outing of CIA Plame, the spotlight started to shine and they just couldn't get the WMDs planted.

A little :tinfoilhat: ...maybe.

[underpants]

26. Option: they are so incompetent and so believeing in their press releases

that they never even thought that they would need to.

Along those lines:

-They still believe it no matter what facts tell them

-The lack of planning is now incredibly evident and on a scale that NO ONE even considered (Was that even part of the pre-war anti-war talking points? No because we all assume that they had done that....it was incomprehensible that they could have actually failed on that so badly. BTW- put this in the "even the Germans and French believed that they had done this)


-They really actually believe their pre-war talking points they are just SURE of them.

-They never planned for even the chance of being wrong and still don't think they are and know that they will never get called on it by MSM

[bpilgrim]

27. ANTHRAX

showed them how easy it is to TRACE certain materials if you have the right people looking.

they don't have EVERYONE on their side and it would be difficult to plant but impossible not to trace back to the source.

peace

[Straight Shooter]

28. Number one, they are not "so damn powerful"

There's a problem with the premise of his question. They have a great deal of power, but not unlimited power.

However, they do seem to have an endless supply of hubris and cultural ignorance. I believe they convinced themselves that the ends (victory and possession of oil) would justify the means (lies and treason). As the old saying goes, "Those whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad."

[Marr]

49. Exactly.

I don't know where the argument was prior to that statement, but if the OP had claimed that the Bush Administration is some sort of all-powerful global puppet master, he was wrong. They're arrogant, but also quite incompetent. That's sort of the problem.

[onenote]

29. they're not "so damned powerful"

They're inept, corrupt idiots. Ask your friend why he supports inept, corrupt idiots that (a) didn't prevent 9-11; (b) have presided over a stangnant to failing economy; (c) are unable to respond to domestic crises like Hurricane Katrina; (d) iniated a war in Iraq with no plan for winning a peace and, as a result, have gotten the US mired in a fight that is making us less secure and while killing and maiming thousands of his fellow countrymen.


And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

onenote

[BigBearJohn]

55. I think they purposely created chaos so they could collect billions

[onenote]

59. if they could've, they would've gone after the billions without chaos

Chaos was the result of their own incompetence. Of course, they've found ways to turn the chaos into more $$ (Halliburton being the best example).

onenote

[Richard Steele]

30. Because B*shCabal™ never controlled enough of Iraq to PLANT a turnip.

The ONLY relatively stable area where the US has
control is the "Green Zone", and even that has
the occasional car bomb and mortar attack.

The B*sh administration really ISN'T a huge conspiracy;
it's a small fanatic core, surounded by a bunch
of opportunists who are along for the ride.

They would need their puppets to help plant WMDs anywhere,
and they can't trust them to do that. They'd get ratted out
at the first opportunity.

The CORE is not large enough to build a WMD factory by hand,
and the OPPORTUNISTS cannot be trusted with the job.

[LondonReign2]

32. Scott Ritter said it would be impossible

You'll have to check the exact reasons he gave

[crispini]

33. They thought they were right.

BUT, the kicker here is that they thought they were right about invading Iraq for YEARS before they got into office (PNAC).

So when they got into office, instead of paying attention to the reality of the situation, they cherrypicked the evidence to make their case.

I don't believe the Bush administration is "so damn powerful," as you put it. I believe they're a bunch of narcissistic, egotistical, arrogant incompetent boobs.

[Francine Frensky]

42. I agree, I think it's classic "group think"

the idea of invading Iraq sounded so good, so they all sat around thinking that somebody else was taking care of making sure the reason why question is being answered, and meanwhile, nobody is.

[MarsThe Cat]

34. that would actually be a very involved project...

first- they would have to "make" the weapons- and make them appear they were made by Iraqi scientists...they would also have to construct the facilities that would have made the devices and the various components...they would have had to forge mountains of data- both paper and digital- and all in arabic...they would have to transport all of this, and "hide" it in believable places- all without leaving any trail or evidence or witnesses.
it's why most "whacko conspiracy" theories are just that.

[Norquist Nemesis]

36. Because someone would tell.

That was my thought, initially, as well. And who knows! Maybe they considered it, but with everything else coming apart and having to cover their tracks all of the time they couldn't risk carrying out the plant.

The bottom line is, it's not because they didn't want to but because someone would have told.

[ComerPerro]

37. They don't need to, do they? They don't care

[abluelady]

52. I Believe You Hit it Right on the Head

They didn't need any reason to invade. They think Americans are stupid enough to believe anything they tell them.

[ComerPerro]

57. um, apparently Americans ARE that stupid

[ComerPerro]

38. And, if he is such a great leader, how come he hasn't passed anything

that conservatives have been pushing for years.

Like a flat tax?

[stillcool]

41. Who says they didn't?

there is a school of thought that Valerie Plames' company Brewster Jennings which tracked proliferation of WMD, was the true target of the outing. And, Judith Miller's joy-ride in Iraq was part of the stage props to record the drama of the discovery. Who knows?:shrug:

[shadowknows69]

45. because then we couldn't claim

that they've been moved to other countries we want to invade.

[katty]

44. they're more Arrogant, they believe they can get away w/anything

so why bother to plant WMD...

[Ready4Change]

46. Damage if caught + Likelyhood > need to do so.

They had their war without planting them.

However, if it was revealed they had planted them they would have been ruined, and it was well known a number of groups were watching out for them to do exactly this, including good guys in the CIA, Military Intelligence, UN inspectors, and any number of other groups.

Beyond that, there are signs they laid the groundwork, just incase doing this became needful. Links in other posts above point to rumors of WMDs being moved into the region, and others point out that a benefit of the Plame outing might have been to destroy the WMD investigatory arm of the CIA to make getting away with this easier.

But, at least until recently, finding WMDs wasn't needed. They had their war, and the were being successful at driving their agenda over all opposition. Why chance it?

And now that this administration is becoming so mistrusted, it's questionable whether finding WMDs would help, or if there would be an immediate and VALID investigation would would reveal the hurtful, damning proof.

[Marr]

48. A Bush Admn. official admitted in a WP article that they'd considered it.

Essentially, they were afraid they'd be caught in the act and it never got out of the "idle chat" stage. They very likely *would've* been caught, too. That'd be a very big and risky production for a number of reasons.

I wish I had a link to the article for you. The official was anonymous, of course- and I read it in print.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

50. Because they're monumental bunglers. Just look how the "war" is going.

The allegedly "World's Mightiest Military" can't even control a devastated 3rd world country and are getting their asses kicked by the "failed insurgency".

The Bush administration isn't "powerful" in any sense of the word. It's a failure in every area except flag-waving and unfounded hubris.

[seabeyond]

53. they tried. were doing it at night. were called on it

didnt follow thru

[Nothing Without Hope]

54. I think the DID plan to plant them, but there is not proof...yet

I think that's why Judy Miller went to iraq - she was going to "report" the "discovery" of those planted WMDs. I also think David Kelley's death might well be tied in with this - he apparently emailed her shortly before it.

It's all put together in this interesting post by Peace Patriot. No prroof, but quite plausible speculation:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5049555

Judith Miller was granted a DoD security clearance while embedded with the Iraq WMD team:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5076864

Here are David Kelly's last emails, including one to Judy Miller:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1853828&mesg_id=1855864

My thinking: they set up the planting, but too many people found out about it and it had to be scuttled. Kelly knew too much. Miller was also involved.

[chat_noir]

56. my Google search for Nelda Rogers found this

By Russ Baker, and copied from Guerilla News Network, fair use.

Two years before 9/11, candidate Bush was already talking privately about attacking Iraq, according to his former ghost writer

Houston: Two years before the September 11 attacks, presidential candidate George W. Bush was already talking privately about the political benefits of attacking Iraq, according to his former ghost writer, who held many conversations with then-Texas Governor Bush in preparation for a planned autobiography.

“He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999,” said author and journalist Mickey Herskowitz. “It was on his mind. He said to me: ‘One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief.’ And he said, ‘My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it.’ He said, ‘If I have a chance to invade….if I had that much capital, I’m not going to waste it. I’m going to get everything passed that I want to get passed and I’m going to have a successful presidency.”

Herskowitz said that Bush expressed frustration at a lifetime as an underachiever in the shadow of an accomplished father. In aggressive military action, he saw the opportunity to emerge from his father’s shadow. The moment, Herskowitz said, came in the wake of the September 11 attacks. “Suddenly, he’s at 91 percent in the polls, and he’d barely crawled out of the bunker.”

http://www.newsfollowup.com/iraq2.htm#By%20Russ%20Bake (scroll down)


Old news (oxymoron?), but some of us may have forgotten.