If you were stranded in Cancun as a tourist should US Govt. Get you Out?

[KoKo]

Does our Government have ANY obligation to rescue American Citizens stranded in another country because of a National Disaster?

And, has anyone heard anyone in Bush Administration or our Embassy address the probem of "Thousands of Stranded Americans" (according to CNN it's thousands)?

What's going on?

[Loonman]

1. Good question

http://www.travel.state.gov/

[NNN0LHI]

2. What do you think? n/t

[KoKo]

6. I think there's some law that says stranded Americans can appeal to

the Embassy and the Embassy is required to press their case. At least from past reading it seems that Americans were able to go to the Embassy in times of trouble like those stranded in WWII or in Vietnam.

I heard a blurb yesterday on the cables saying that the stranded tourists had appealed to the Embassy but had not had any cooperation. That's all I know about it.

I think we have a moral obligation, whether it's legal or not...I don't know.

[NNN0LHI]

23. I think they should be rescued ASAP

But I wouldn't mind if they were charged for it. Not overcharged though. Make it based on a sliding scale compared to income. Make them pay what they can afford. If they can't afford nothing they don't pay. I could live with that.

Don

[KoKo]

48. Okay...I could go with a "needs based pay...to get me the hell out."

I could see that.

[babylonsister]

3. I don't know if the gov't took the initiatiive, but see here:

<<Continental Airlines Evacuating Stranded Tourists From Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula Financial News - Yahoo! Finance.url>>

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/051025/datu065.html?.v=19

[stillcool]

4. i think we've all learned the answer to that one...

unfortunately.

[Ezlivin]

5. No

We have enough people that need rescuing right here.

[JanMichael]

7. Hi Koko, this is Stephanie, not Michael

(I THINK I am under his name.... to lazy to check!)

I got really mad at some of the dumbassed tourists in Mexico that were interviewed before Wilma hit. The ones that were drinking beer in the surf, and yelling about "bring it on!"

I realize that out of 30,000 that there are people there that MIGHT have genuinelly gotten stuck for a very good reason. And I think the US should indeed haul them out of there.

But, those clowns that couldn't be bothered to get their pseudo-neuvo-riche asses to the airport because it was bothering their vacation/honeymoon/romantic getaway? Those "bring it on" ones?

Let them learn to hitchhike.

[marylanddem]

10. hitchhiking in Mexico

could be dicey...We got shaken down by cops at a speed trap in the foncy hotel district...it's a creepy place. I'm sure many of those folks are scared, but like you I am baffled as to why they put themselves in that place at that time.

[JanMichael]

12. I hitched in Mexico in the early eighties

but, now that I am older, I would not!

I am not baffled as to why those jerks stayed put when they KNEW there was a storm coming. It's not stupidity, it's selfishness. They have grown used to the cozy system in the US that takes good care of upper middle class white folks, and expect the same treatment in other countries.

[KoKo]

11. Well...you're certainly honest in your opinion about that.

:D :hi: I did hear, though, that the airlines had to cancel flights before all those trying to get out had a chance to. And, they were stranded at the airport...like the folks in New Orleans. I guess there weren't enough planes that could do extra duty for all those who needed to leave.

Those folks are running out of food, too..and I wonder if it isn't our obligation to airlift food to them? Or, has Bush worked out a deal with Vincente Fox to try to "keep it all quiet." :shrug:

I can imagine some of those stranded learned a big lesson if they thought this was going to be a "fun in the storm" experience...

[babylonsister]

14. Latest Cancun airport update (and info about food):

Airport will open only for evacuation
On Oct 25 at 6:30 AM a Mexicana Airlines will leave Mexico City with 20 Tons of food and medical supplies to Cancun. Taking back tourists to Mexico City.

There will be several flights like that during the day. Evacuation will be coordinated by the Dirección de aeronautic civil.

This flights wil be during the daylight hours as there are still Electrical problems.

Regular fligths will not resume until further notice.

Terminal buildings are seriously damaged. Airlines are still assesing damage to buildings.

There are more than 30,000 tourists stranded at the moment

[KoKo]

24. Thanks for the info. 30,000 tourists will require many Plane Trips.

most planes can't hold more than 200 passengers. It's going to be a big problem since an article from AP said that the Cancun airports are destroyed and folks are having to try to get to Meriden where the airfield is smaller and Continental is trying to operate flights but with smaller planes.

Maybe they need to get those cruise ships over there that are wasting time in New Orleans. We've already paid for them. Might as well use 'em to help these folks get out in larger numbers than planes can handle.

[JanMichael]

15. The flights were cancelled the day before the storm; those people

interviewed in the Yahoo news stories were LAUGHING, drinking and talking about staying. They never tried to get to the airport.

In the face of the most intensive storm recorded, don't you think that just maybe...people might have immediately made plans to leave asap? They had DAYS.

Sorry, I am mad...I was a paramedic, and the memories of the crap that we would get called out to do because of someone else's stupidity, or selfishness just hits me sometimes. My partner and I rolled the ambulance on black ice one night because of garbage like this; she was out for weeks with back problems...if we had had a patient, they would have died.

Too bad we can't just let the dumb ones enjoy the "real" Mexico!

[lse7581011]

8. They Couldn't Get Them Out Of New Orleans!

how can we expect them to get tourists out of a foreign country?

[flamin lib]

9. Send more limes and Corona . . . nt

[Cleita]

13. The US government never does anything for its citizens abroad.

I lived in South America on and off in the forties and fifties. Americans working in various countries were often taken hostage, tortured and killed in revolutions, but the US never did anything to bring the perpetrators to justice or even attempt to get hostages released or an admission of fault from the countries they were killed in.

Americans are thrown in foreign jails all the time and unless it's really a high profile arrest like the hostages taken in Iran, no one bothers their ass about them. The most they will do is write a letter to an American relative to advise them of the fact.

So, I don't think they feel any obligation to Americans vacationing abroad when natural disasters strike. They will probably contact a relative and tell them where you are and that's it.

[SoCalDem]

16. The state department considers US travelers to be "on their own"

It's only in the movies that the US government flies into action to help Americans abroad..

If you are on "official" business and are a diplomat, they care, but if you are an average citizen, you are on your own :(

[durablend]

17. Let's clarify this...

If you're rich, white, and Republican, they'll send a private plane.

Otherwise, sorry sucker...guess yer on yer own!

[KoKo]

41. You know, SoCalDem...this is something our DEMS need to address

if we EVER regain power. But, I don't see the DLC Dems/Lieberman, etc. ever dealing with this.

I think this is something that we really need to get on top of. But...then again there's SO MUCH we need to deal with but or Leadership and the PRESS seem sort of "out of touch." :-( :scared:

Has it now come down to: "Every Man, Woman and Child to Fend for Oneself?"

Is this what it is.....:cry: For all the Tax Money We Pay?

[SoCalDem]

42. Unfortunately it's almost always been this way..

Once we leave the US, we are not really "protected" at all.. people have seen all the grainy old movies and think we are..but it's not the case..

Years ago, a client of mine was deatined at gun-point in Albania.. Our State dept said..."Call the Albanian embassy".. It took myself, a translator, and a helpful guy who was visiting the embassy in DC to straighten it out.. ZSomeone had made an error on his visa date stamp (due to time change)_, and when he arrived at the border, it had expired.. He had a "transit visa" which was limited to certain number of hours...The guys at the train station were heavyhanded and scared the hell out of him.. He called me at home and we had to wait until office hours in DC...no emai back then just clunky ole long distance & telex...

It took almost 7 hours to get him released, and our state department didn;t lift a finger

[KoKo]

45. I guess it's back to reading Robert Ludlum....and figuring...each person

to his own...

It might eventually hurt the MEGA "Travel Industry" though...just as a "downside for unfettered capitalism" though. :D

In "My Deep Lefty Heart" that might just be ...as "Martha Criminal" says:

"A GOOD THING." :-)'s

[KoKo]

46. Why can't the "Cruise Ships" be commandeerd to take out the Thousands?

After all...they are sitting off coast of NO's with just a small police force of Nagin's using all the services. Why can't the "Cruise Ships" we taxpayers paid for go back down the Gulf and pick up some few thousands of Cancun Refugee's and bring them to Florida Airports? How many trips would it take to get 30,000 out of Mexico?

Cruise Ships hold...how many? :shrug: A Lot...MeTHINKS....

[SoCalDem]

51. The hotels are to blame ...to a large degree

Wilma was SURE to affect the Yucatan coast, and they ALL knew it for DAYS..The tourists should have been TOLD to leave.. It's bad enough to care for locals after a disaster, without haveing to worry about 20K "visitors".. The infrastructure there IS the hotels, and when that "breaks", there is NOTHING ....

The airlines should have sent in extra planes to evac people out, and the hotels would have lost some money, but they would have earned the good will of their customers, and done everyone a favor.

I actually have two friends who are IN a shelter there..right now.. They were not at bowling tonight, and their teammates said.. Ken & Diane are in Cancun.. They go every year for their anniversary.. Bad timing this year..

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Lets clarify this

under Intenrational Law every time a US Citizen is detained (or a foreign national in the US) the propper consulate \ embassy has to be informed

I had a very specific form I had to fill every time we took a Foreign n national to the hospital

What happens after that is up to the home country

The US Government often provided US Nationals with a local lawyer when in jail... I saw it ok... they also visited the hosptials and jails every weekend, again I saw it.

Now do they do enough? No, but nobody does.

Are people obligated to inform them? Absolutely, do they always fullfil this requirement? NO... are the guerrillas obliged in SA? No, not as long as they are not recognized as lawful conbatants. If people just knew a little of the obligations of governments, operative word, government here, it would be oh so much easier

[Cleita]

39. I know the consulates go to the jails. They take the person's

stats and a relative or friend they can contact in the states. Many of the people in the jails aren't allowed to contact anyone so they might be there for weeks before anyone knows they are there. Even so no bail is usually posted or maybe they might send a lawyer, but it isn't anything very vigorous that is done. It's usually friends or families that get stuck with doing most of the dealing with authorities with very little help from consulates or embassies.

I personally always thought if Americans working for American companies or interests overseas got killed or harmed in other ways by nationals or guerillas of those countries that we should send the marines in to either rescue them or to make sure those countries get justice served to the perpetrators. But I learned a long time ago we don't use our military for legitimate reasons anymore since WWII.

[bloom]

18. It would seem like an obvious way to help out.

We were happy to have other countries help out with Katrina - it would seem like a big help to get a bunch of tourists out who are need of being fed, etc.

To argue against help would be like arguing that FEMA had no obligation to help the people stranded in New Orleans. There are no doubt people who think that. I am not one of them.

[Generator]

19. Naw, fuck 'em

It's the Republican way. They should have thought about this BEFORE their little vacay, no? No free rides. What? They are white and maybe vote Republican? uh..Dammit.they are merikens in a time of trouble. Get Geraldo on it stat!

[radwriter0555]

20. I have insurance that enables me to be rescued in the event of something

like this, by any means necessary. This site here... very affordable. Won't travel without it.

http://www.medexassist.com

[KoKo]

31. This sounds interesting....but wonder if it can work with disaster like

Wilma in Cancun. I have Triple A for my car...but some places I've been it's taken hours for them to show up. I would feel good with a plan like this in a big city, I wonder if it can work in the "outback" or when there's major destruction. :shrug:

[radwriter0555]

49. Actually the damage in Cancun isn't as horrible as it's being made out

to be. There is a lot of sand everywhere... windows broken, power down, limited water, etc. But towns like Playa del Carmen are not destroyed and are functioning more with each hour that passes. There is a lot of sand everywhere, meters deep, but they're putting it back on the beach one truck-full at a time.

The airport is operating, it's US aviation standards that are "preventing" US airlines from landing, not unlike all the FEMA rules excuses; all the other countries are saying "screw that" and sending in planes to land and take off, trusting that the good, decent people in the Cancun airport will do their best to make sure the planes land and take off safely.

It's inconvenient in Cancun, but far, far short of a horrific disaster. Everything is reparable, restaurants are opening, food and supplies, while limited, are available, hotels are tidying up. None of us will really miss Senor Frogs, it wasn't vital to the community, etc.

My point is that a chopper can come in and land anywhere they want to in the event that they really needed to get you out for a true, genuine emergency involving medical attention or serious danger. That's what this insurance co does, I bought it after reading some great first hand accounts.

Frankly I don't even consider the hurricane damage in the Cancun region to be that serious for the tourists. The locals are the ones most in need, but fortunately, they will be employed to repair the damage which will benefit them greatly.

[finecraft]

21. They were really slow to help during the tsunami also

Go back and read the horror stories about Americans that were stranded during the tsunami. I remember reading a story about how the American Embassy in Thailand was telling Americans to meet them in the Bangkok airport, but when they tourists got there they couldn't find the Embassy people......they were having a party in the private VIP lounge in the airport. They were making Americans show three forms of identification before they would help them, in addition to making tourists pay cash for a replacement passport should they need one. Well Duh....these people had just had their belongings washed away out of their hotel rooms by a giant wave of water, so many didn't have three forms of identification with them, or the cash to pay for the replacement passport! It was one giant cluster-you-know-what....doesn't sound like things have improved any since then.

[Horse with no Name]

22. I believe that American's trapped anywhere should be helped

rich or poor
young or old
smart or stupid
Democrat or Republican

I think it is our obligation.

[KoKo]

26. I said up in the thread that Cruise Ships might be the way to move

thousands of stranded tourists. Or, even US Naval ships. Aren't there some in the gulf that could move them at least over to the Gulf of Florida to airports at Naples/Tampa/Ft. Meyers?

[Horse with no Name]

29. That is an excellent idea

Actually IIRC, they leased several cruise ships for a six month period of time that are docked in NOLA.
Why don't they just take those since the government is already paying for them and nobody (except FEMA/government people) is living aboard that can't move into a hotel or a navy ship temporarily.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Sorry but there are no naval facilities

and why not use the Mexican Navy?

Look this is coordinating the evacuation of 30K people when you have desperate locals trying to survive.

Reality is that those tourists should have evacuated a while ago... but lets not get into that now shall we?

[KoKo]

47. Well...between the Mexican and US Navy and Cruise Ships...it seems we

could Move those 30,000 off to get to airports. We are already as US Taxpayers paying for the Cruise Ships we thought the displaced NO's and Gulf folks Would Use...so why not Really USE THEM?

There was a post on DU just a day or two ago..that we got "scammed" by Carnival Cruise to pay for these ships which only a small amount of "emergenc personnel" even used. Most folks in the Gulf went to relatives or were shipped out to Texas and parts unknown around the US rather than living on the Ships. So...if they are sitting there with some hundreds of Firemen and Police from NO's then let's give them a three day ride out to Cancun and over the Gulf to Tampa/Ft. Meyers and Naples so they can get the HELL OUTTA THERE? How many days would they be in use? How much did we "overpay" for the leasing of Carnival Cruise Ships? It was a good bit according to the DU article. (sorry...I don't have the link..imagine one can GOOGLE it.)

[progressivebydesign]

25. No. Not to sound heartless... but is that standard practice?

but would that be standard practice? Rescuing vacationers in other countries? If it is.. then okay, but I don't think that's the case. Aren't you pretty much responsible for yourself when you travel abroad? I know we have embassies for some help, but as far as sending someone to get you? Hmmmm... not sure.

[KoKo]

28. But, this is a huge disaster....the place is devastated. I think we have

a "moral" obligation to do something... Not in Bush America, though.

[Horse with no Name]

32. Exactly.

That it the difference.
It's not like we should dump the responsibility of 30,000 of our citizens on another country during an emergency situation.
If it were something less devastating...then folks could take care of themselves.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. To a point it is

but hey whatever

[tk2kewl]

27. it depends on how much your portfolio is worth

[Zynx]

30. I'm sorry, but that establishes a strange precedent.

Does that mean anytime Americans get themselves into trouble in another country that the government is obligated to bail them out?

[Horse with no Name]

33. Perhaps only if they are in a country that has a declared national

disaster?
IIRC, we help citizens out of certain countries when there is unrest.

[Zynx]

34. That would be fine.

I don't think the government should be there for just any old problem people fall into.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. There are already precedents there

under International law.

And yes I filled way too many of those forms informting home countries of the status of their citizens....

In this case is Mexico a signatory of the Gneeva Convention? Yes

Is the US a signatory of the Geneva Convention? Yes (as much as AG Gonzales wishes otherwise)

your answer is in there... no precedent, it is part of International law

[KoKo]

40. Personalizing this "one more time." I wouldn't want to be stranded in

Cancun or anywhere else with 30,000 Americans...whether they are kids who think this is a Lark...or oldie Americans who got stuck there for an Anniversary, Birthday or Family Celebration.

I, personally, don't trust the M$M's report of "SELFISH AMERICANS" partying and drinking "Buffet Taquila's" while the Winds Raged Outside...

I think our EMBASSY's DUTY IS TO GET THEM OUT...or if it was ME...to GET ME OUT! :shrug:

[radwriter0555]

50. The USA won't allow their planes to land in Cancun due to limited

conditions at the airport.

Other nations are allowing their planes to land and take off, and Cancun is permitting air travel, but the US aviation standards are in the way...

The airport is operating and safe, but not safe enough for the paper pushers apparently.

[kohodog]

43. Only if you're white and rich, according to the Bush philosophy. n/t

[KoKo]

44. White Rich or Clarence Thomas...Suck Up...and then if's "How Much"

$$$$$$$$$$$$...you are willing to spend to "free you from disaster."

:shrug:

[burrowowl]

52. No

And by the way, the US Gove., isn't required to do anything except maybe send an embassy type to hear you out. IF there is something to do wih treaties, maybe just maybe... or a criminal case in the MSM or ....
But you went there on your own, you get out on your own.
In Europe, you can add a bit to your state medical insurance for medical evaction, but usually from an airport that is operational. If you can't get put, you can't get out, you expect them to send the Navy if there is no oil? And even if there were oil, you think you count?
Traveling is your own responsability. Even if you buy additional insurance with your ticket, there are waivers for Acts of God, War, etc.
And hell, the US Gov't is responsible for citizens on its soil, but NOLA is a good show of Repukeness. What would have happened if very rich whites were stranded in Arena, Convention Center, etc.

[KoKo]

53. CNN is on this story this Wednesday Morning. Brits and French are

getting their folks out but it seems that our American Embassy isn't being helpful. They are still relying on Continental flights and there just aren't enough flights for the 10,000 Americans stranded. Why aren't other airlines helping out? What about the Cruise Ships?

A person who's there said there are elderly and children who have little food or medicine. No baby food.