C. Uygur: If You're a Christian, Muslim or Jew - You are Wrong

[stopbush]

If you missed Cenk Uygur's post at HuffPo the other day, you really should check it out:

If You're a Christian, Muslim or Jew - You are Wrong

We live in a twisted world, where right is wrong and wrong reigns supreme. It is a chilling fact that most of the world's leaders believe in nonsensical fairytales about the nature of reality. They believe in Gods that do not exist, and religions that could not possibly be true. We are driven to war after war, violence on top of violence to appease madmen who believe in gory mythologies.
These men are called Christians, Muslims and Jews.

George W. Bush is the most powerful man alive. He is a class A imbecile. He is far less intelligent than the average Christian. But like most of the others, he believes Jesus died for his sins. That idea is so perverse and devoid of logic it should shock the conscience. Instead, it gets him elected, and earns him the reverence of a great percentage of America. America! The most advanced country in the world -- run by a bunch of villagers who still believe Santa Claus is going to save them.

There is no damn Easter Bunny. There is no Jesus waiting to return. Moses never even existed. These were all convenient lies from the men of those times to gain power. Their actions were rational -- they wanted to deceive their brethren so that they could amass power. I get their motivations. But I cannot, for the life of me, understand our motivations, thousands of years later, still following the conmen of yesteryear into our gory, bloody, violent end.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/if-youre-a-christian-mu_b_9349.html

[donco6]

1. Not this again.

Dupe.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Posted twice. Locked twice. Third time could be the charm, eh? *g*

[donco6]

5. One could hope.

But this article is looking like one of those REALLY bad pennies.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. A lot of generalizations in this article

Frankly, the only ones who will cheer about what this person says are people who agree with him. Personally, from what I have read about the Beloved Prophet, Mohammed was nothing like the person characterized. I could give examples, but why bother? This person has made up his mind that because people like Bush and bin Laden have done crazy and bad things, their faiths should be condemned as fairy tales and their prophets be maligned.

There are a lot of good Christians, Muslims, and Jews and other believers out there who are working for peace and justice. This article doesn't acknowledge them and merely gives material for the right wing to condemn all liberals for being "godless".

[Az]

4. Not really productive

People are not going to read this and suddenly "Get it". Find the common ground and work from there. All this will do is alienate believers and nonbelievers. And guess what. There are billions of believers that do not believe in violence being the way.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. Thank you

I always respect your thoughtful posts, AZ, and I was interested in seeing that you felt that the article would alienate nonbelievers as well as believers.

[greyl]

7. "billions of believers that do not believe in violence being the way."

Baloney. Not when faith comes to shove. They'll kill you in a second for their idea of god.

[Az]

9. I will strongly contest that

Yes, some varieties of belief lead to that sort of mentality. But there are many that find their religious ideology from a wider array of beliefs and are not so weak that they cannot stand to have their faith tested.

I have been debating religion for far too long to accept that people turn to violence when their faith has been shoved. I have personally shoved a lot of faith and have found that what I get is more likely to resemble what I have given. If I test their faith while showing them respect and consideration I find I recieve the same in return.

[greyl]

15. I'm not talking about conversational debate.

I'm talking about real world evidence gathered for the past several thousand years. When faith really comes to shove.

[Az]

16. So you think the beliefs today are the same as thousands of years ago?

I will contest that as well. Religions are dynamic things. They change to fit the environment. Several hundred years ago something called the Humanist revolution struck. It changed drastically the way religion functioned. To this day most religious people incorporate the humanist ideals that grew from that revolution into their religious ideas. They cease to be able to discern the difference. It has become part of their religious ideals.

As real world evidence is gathered there is a wide range of reactions to it. Its not black and white. Each person gathers the knowledge into their world view in their own way. Some adapt their beleifs to it. Some find their beliefs falling short in light of the new evidence and lose their faith. And yes some reject the evidence and cling to their beliefs.

Over time evidence wins. But over time beliefs evolve. Sometimes there can be uprisals of belief that attempt to overcome the advances of knowledge. We do have to be wary of such events. But the longer reason holds the floor the less likely such an event is. And it will not just be skeptics and nonbelievers defending reason and progress. There are miriad believers that try to fuse reason and belief. And they will not stand idley by while fanatics and zealots try to destroy that which they do not agree with.

[belle]

13. You think MLK and Gandhi were atheists, do you?

[belle]

12. Hear, hear.

[mitchtv]

8. pretty much right on

from my perspective . As for the "good" religious believers., someone should tell them to stand up and do something other than cowering in the corner while their "religions" are hijacked. Please include fervent Hindus in that group too, they do a lot of faith based murder too.

[GreenPartyVoter]

10. Who says that we are cowering in the corners? We fight for

for justice just like atheist progressives do.

And don't hand us the "well, it's your religion, fix it". That makes as much sense as demanding that the French fix all Quebecois problems because they had a common root language at one time, or saying that all Americans are bad because ** is in the Oval Office.

Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/liberalchristians.htm

[Az]

14. Although I disagree with the tone

I do believe that more religious liberals need to rise up against the more vocal religious right. I a consider myself glad to be associated with many active religious liberals fighting to preserve our society. But we are still far too few. Atheists and Theists of liberal persuasions need to speak up against the hatred of the right. We need to make the advances of this society continue and renew the advances we have already made. It takes presense to do this.

[GreenPartyVoter]

17. Did you catch the Episcopal church supporting equal rights for gays this

week? Does anyone ever notice when church pastors speak out for separation of church and state?

Just because we rarely make the news does not mean we are standing still. :)

BANGOR - Episcopalians on Friday overwhelmingly endorsed equal rights for gays and lesbians at the their annual convention held at the Bangor Civic Center, but stopped short of urging residents to vote no on Question 1 on Nov. 8.

The original language of the resolution, which included calling "upon all citizens to vote no this November 8th on Proposition #1," could have affected the tax-exempt status of the Diocese of Maine.

"Our chancellor pointed out that by urging people to vote one way or the other, we were functioning as a ," said Heidi Shott, communications officer for the diocese. "So the resolution was amended."

Question 1 on the ballot will read: "Do you want to reject the new law that would protect people from discrimination in employment, housing, education, public accommodations and credit based on their sexual orientation?"

http://bangornews.com/news/templates/?a=122482

[Drifter]

11. If God was real ...

there would be no need for religion.

Cheers
Drifter

[EstimatedProphet]

18. Locking

Repost of locked topic