The outing of a covert operation and agent WAS NO ACCIDENT!

[Just Me]

I reject propositions that members of this administration were acting out of ignorance or incompetence or foolishishness driven by revenge. If that were true, this investigation would have wrapped up far more quickly.

Moreover, anyone who underestimates this administration's polished skill at calculated manipulation of knowledge and people and facts and resources,...is failing to acknowledge reality. They had every powerful, governmental resource at hand,...and then some.

My position in this matter is that they knew EXACTLY what they were doing,....going through extreme measures to cover their own tracks and diffuse the REAL motivation behind the outing of an undercover operation tracking WMDs.

Discuss.

[stepnw1f]

1. I Agree

I don't buy the "ignorance" plee.

[goforit]

2. Yah ....I just heard Oberman state that it could have been unintended.

NOT!!!!

It was a premeditated act and was a total intent to assassinate
character and destroy covert B&J company's plans.

[Coastie for Truth]

6. Valerie Plame's agents were getting too close to something BIG

And I think it was a real "smoking gun" along the "money laundering trail" from "Big Oil" to the "House of Saud" to the "Wahabi Charities" to the terrorists.

--Remember the Saudi charter flights right after 9/11? -- and check out Craig Unger's "House of Bush - House of Saud."

[flyarm]

9. yes i have been screaming this at the media all day( my tv!)

its about brewster jennings...not joe wilson!!!!!!!!

wtf is wrong with these bastards...they know damn well its about brewster jennings...and yet not one says a thing about it..neither do the dem pundits who go on ...its damn well about brewster jennings...and its much bigger than outing a single cia agent..and i damn well hope fitzgerald has that..or we as nation are screwed!
and so is our national security...

fuck taking your shoes off at the airport...brewster jennings is the big kahuna!

fly

[postulater]

33. Could you point me to some background reading on Brewster

Jennings, I need to know more about this.

[flyarm]

36. brewster jennings info

http://rubdmc.dailykos.com/story/2005/7/17/22429/1711


http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_douglas__051019_iraq__lng__credibili.htm

http://www.topplebush.com/article82_recpres.shtml

http://www.perrspectives.com/resources/documents.htm#plame

that is just a few articles about it..

fly

[johnaries]

37. Here's some more, including 2 Wikipedia entries

http://sparky-mcgruff.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/7/3/16838/88864
http://www.pensitoreview.com/2005/07/18/lost-asset-the-true-cost-of-the-white-house-cia-leak/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brewster_Jennings_&_Associates
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Plame
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A40012-2003Oct3?language=printer (you can get a free login at www.bugmenot.com )
http://www.answers.com/topic/brewster-jennings-associates

[Kierkegaard]

3. Furthermore...

if they DIDN'T know what they were doing, they are INCOMPETENT and should be relegated to a McJob somewhere before they screw around and accidentally start a war or something. Oh, wait...

[dchill]

4. I agree - no accident.

In fact, outing Plame served them far better than smearing Joe Wilson. Her operation knew full well who had WMDs & who didn't. Ignorance, incompetence, foolishness, revenge = media whitewash. I hope Fitzgerald has the goods.

[Kenneth ken]

5. I'd pretty much agree with you

I'm not sure they knew EXACTLY what they were doing, but I do think they at least had a plan of what they were going to do and what it was meant to accomplish.

I think they're very good at planning and seeing the outcomes they want. They just get bollixed up when reality doesn't conform to their plan.

[flyarm]

11. remember most of this cast of characters were involved in

iran contra..these are drug and arms dealers in this white house..they knew damn well what they were doing..and probably are still doing!

they are all filthy pigs and up to their eyeballs in crimes all over the freaking world!

fly

[Kenneth ken]

20. sure

and they got exposed in that too.

My point is that if they knew exactly what they were doing, they would be able to get away with it unexposed.

For reference, look at the Rather-Bush-guard-memo fiasco. I think they pulled that one off well. There are still some people who think that should be investigated further and that investigation would lead to exposure, but by and large, that's a story that is dead and buried and most people aren't interested in looking at.

They got a three-for on that one. Burned Rather, killed the whole Bush guard MIA story and got a different story that was supposed to air instead knocked off (I forget that exact story, but I think it was Iraq related?)

Everyone replying to me seems to think I think outing Plame was an oops moment for them. I don't think that at all. I just think it didn't go the way they had expected it to - reality got in their way and tripped them up.

[mmonk]

22. I agree

Add in the forgeries and the dots connect. I believe they had someone tip them off the CIA was trying to check things out and not that they requested the CIA.

[Just Me]

12. Here's the other thing,...they have proven themselves willing,...

,...to by-pass or ignore or CREATE loopholes through the rule of law. Bush asked Gonzales to justify activities associated with his policies (aggressive war, torture, suspension of constitutionally-guaranteed due process and procedural protections), and,...Gonzales did exactly as he was told.

No fucking way ANYONE will convince me that this cabal acts by accident/mistake/ignorance/stupidity. They have aimed to find ways to violate laws in any and every "creative" possible way.

They KNEW!!!

Why are people pretending like these despots who have more resources at hand than ANYONE outside their circle,...have acted out of anything other than CALCULATED INTENT?

:shrug:

[Kenneth ken]

21. I'm not

saying they didn't know what they were trying to do, and what they wanted the result to be.

I'm saying dspite all their manipulation reality still tripped them up.

Do you really think they wanted possible indictments, trials, convictions etc.? I think that's the reality aspect that is tripping them up.

[Lerkfish]

14. its because their arrogance prevents them from making a plan B

they assume plan A will work because they're clever.
so when A, doesn't work, they scrambly like cockroaches after you turn on the light, flailiing about wildly, hoping something will connect.

[Just Me]

19. I'm sorry but,...I don't think so. They are CONSTANTLY scheming.

They're not limited by the Plan A-Z they anticipate and they are too ambitious to "scramble like cockroaches".

What I am saying is that, it is a mistake to underestimate their brilliance. Of course, even the most brilliant of evil assholes leave something behind.

[Lerkfish]

25. well, their "kisses and flowers" plan didn't work so well in Iraq.

but they keep acting like it did

:shrug:

I'm just sayin.

[Just Me]

31. That was "propaganda". Surely, you know that.

Jus' sayin'

:shrug:

[Lerkfish]

41. sure, but I also think they naively thought they could control it.

and they can't. Iraq is a clusterf@ck.

[Gregorian]

7. Cheney's unprecedented trips to the CIA

How could he not know. Maybe the CIA withheld that information from them. Very doubtful.


Even though I always wondered why they'd risk the penalty, when looking back, they risked a lot more than that.

[stillcool]

8. Orchestrated attack...

just like the others they are famous for. Hook'em up to lie detectors!!!

[Just Me]

15. Orchestrated cover-up of their fraud,....

,...and other activities ENDANGERING NATIONAL SECURITY.

This wasn't a mere "attack" against two individuals and an undercover WMD operation.

This cabal's activities were intended to conceal their own criminal activities, which involved misuse of the resources and sacrifice of the security of this nation.

[babylonsister]

10. K & R! nt

[berni_mccoy]

13. Hear Hear!

I agree wholeheartedly, and I have Faith that Fitzgerald sees it this way too.

[pretzel4gore]

16. remember, the wtc towers were demo'd

trying to grasp the implications of this, that 911 was a planned terror/psyche ops comducted using the us government itself as the secret agency, simply boggles the mind; so much that it's easier to go along with the ridiculous official story.
but this is the background of everything that is going on.....even michael moore and al franken have long ago accepted the '19 hijackers' 911 scenerio, which makes suspecting the busheviks of incompetence or venality or plain foolishness in the iraq war/plame outting case such a relief....it's dreadful to think a lawmaker like senator wellstone (or indeed mel carnahan) could be murdered just for a political chess move advantage (though senator wellstone would have made the iraq war scam harder to carry off)
face it. these are the people who murdered jfk, in broad daylight, 2 generations ago. and no one, who knows how the nazipoos work, in their heart of hearts, doubts it (though we ALL say in public, 'c'mon, that is fukking silly'!)

[kohodog]

17. Good Call.

The spin machine is in overdrive, and the real reason for outing Plame may never make it to tv, but the CIA team they took down makes the world a much more dangerous place. I only hope that true patriots who really know what's been going on will feel (more) free to bring their knowledge to the public through legal or surreptitious means.

[KerryOn]

18. Ignorance of the Law Is No Excuse.....

Even if they did leak Plame's name, not realizing that she was covert. They still broke the law.

[nookiemonster]

27. Damn skippy!

That's been preached to us our entire lives.

[Just Me]

32. Moreover, THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR IGNORANCE!!!

This regime is ASSUMED to not only be knowledgeable but also have the utmost respect and adherence to the rule of law, ethical practices and basic human morals.

Yes? }(

[Individualist]

23. It was deliberate

Cheney knew exactly what he was doing. The cabal has gotten away with so much crap that they believed they could pull off another crime without being held accountable.

[madokie]

24. Yes, Intentional, deliberate, criminal.

[Fairlyunbalanced]

26. No offense intended

But in other news "The sky is blue, Bush is stupid, and the Republican party is corrupt and evil."

Sadly they've already planted the seeds with these "doubts" that will grow into the next willing generation of ignorati :(

I'm already hearing it at work... "Liberal Conspiracy", "What about Clinton", "Europe bought it too", "I can't think for myself"... nevermind that last, not sure if that was a memory or an overwhelming impression :shrug:

[Just Me]

34. Are you related to Scottie?

:rofl:

[CantGetFooledAgain]

28. Brewster, Jennings, and Associates

Why do I (we) know the significance of this name? Because this CIA front company was "blown" in a deliberate act of treason masquerading as retribution against a political opponent (which itself was later downgraded by the media to "hardball politics", conveniently ignoring the greater crime).

[Junkdrawer]

29. Yep. B-J & Assoc. kept an eye on ARAMCO...

And THAT goes to the heart of BushCo power.

[bloom]

30. Rove called Chris Matthews and told him that Wilson's wife was "fair game"

"In early October 2003, NEWSWEEK reported that immediately after Novak's column appeared in July, Rove called MSNBC "Hardball" host Chris Matthews and told him that Wilson's wife was "fair game."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8445696/site/newsweek/

So what was that? If it meant nothing to put her name out there - why would he have said that? It suggests that damage was intended.Intent being the operative word.

I think Chris Matthews has been taking this more seriously because of the White House wanting the press to take the hit and he's not having it.

[WhiteTara]

35. I agree too

I think that they just didn't count on the tenacity of Wilson, the fact that the CIA has a very strong arsenal of their own and that the internet is an investigative tool that has no equivalent.

[Garbo 2004]

38. Remember the investigation was delayed for over a year due to Cooper and

Miller refusing to testify.

In 2004 Fitz said he had the investigation mostly wrapped up but wanted to tie up some loose ends and Cooper's and Miller's testimonies were critical to the investigation.

So the length of the investigation is not necessarily indicative of anything other than Cooper and Miller being roadblocks to a more expeditious completion.

[funflower]

39. Better to be indicted for perjury or IIPA than for forging your way into a

war.

[gulfcoastliberal]

40. I have an extended family member who was a CIA NOC

We were always not to speak of it when we saw him and to tell anyone that asked that he worked at the State Department. All I know is he was in some deep undercover shit in Europe. They know whether the agent is NOC or not. They blew her cover just like Aldridge Aimes.

[spooky3]

43. As a DC area resident I've met several people who work

at CIA-type agencies and even though they were not undercover, they bristled if you asked them even a general question how their day was at work.

[Neil Lisst]

42. it was a crime from the get-go

my take on how it happened, with the big news coming tomorrow

[Nothing Without Hope]

44. I agree and have since very early in this whole sorry business. I also

suspect Judy Miller was with the Iraq WMD team to "report" on the "discovered" planted WMDs - but that operation went south because too many people found out about it. Like David Kelly. One of his last emails was to Judy Miller - and then he "suicided."

Read Peace Patriot's post on this scenario:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5049555

And here are Kelly's last emails:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1853828&mesg_id=1855864

Judy Miller had DoD security clearance while in Iraq:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1853828

And then there's the fact that they didn't WANT the truth about WMDs to come out - they wanted to push their own lies and propaganda. Brewster-Jennings might have discovered too much.

[pberq]

45. Check out this interview

If possible, listen/watch this. It is one of the best I have seen on the subject. Mel Goodman gets to the heart of this - it's about lying to go to war:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/10/25/1412248


And here's the DU thread on this interview:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5170298

on edit: spelling

[femrap]

46. I still think the neocons were trying to plant WMD in Iraq

to justify the invasion...and I think Brewster/Jennings was following this little trick of the neocons....!

Maybe Israel was involved and maybe not.