I'll need to rethink my opposition to the draft

[bluestateguy]

I have always opposed the draft. I believe that even if you bring it back that there will still be hundreds of thousands of young people who will dutifully march off to war, simply because the government says they have to go. I have also been skeptical of the notion that you can really have a draft with "no exceptions". The rich and well-connected will find ways to get their kids out, somehow.

On the other hand, there is too much benign opposition to the war right now. People know it was wrong to go to war, but they aren't doing anything about it. You bring back the draft, and that's your shock therapy. Suddenly there is an induction notice in the mail. That gets people's attention and forces people to make a choice: go fight or turn your opposition to the war into action.

On paper, I still remain undecided. I'm just thinking out loud.

[bowens43]

1. bad idea.

Keep your fucking hands off of my children.

Just thinking out loud.

[July]

7. I second that emotion.

My kids aren't going to be cannon fodder for these morons.

[Maddy McCall]

2. The sad thing is that sons of people like me, who are against war...

will get those same induction papers. I'm a single parent. I'm far from wealthy. Just how do I get MY son a deferment?

The rich will always find a way out. The poor will always fight this country's wars--and die in them.

You know I like you, bsg, but I hate this suggestion, when you make it or when any DUer makes it.

[punpirate]

3. The draft seems normal to us...

... after having lived with it for thirty years after the end of WWII. A draft should always be seen as an exceptional act.

Without a fundamental change in the psyche of the nation--rejecting the militarism which has been building in the country for more than a generation--a draft is simply the means to supply more cannon fodder for further imperial ambitions.

Cheers.

[louis c]

4. I posted months ago .............

this very theory.

1. Every 17 to 25 year old male must register for the draft. A 1968 type lottery will be held. This time, however, no exemptions for married men or college. Everybody's in. Females would be exempt from combat, however, they may be included in non-combat positions and drafted at a much lower rate, if needed.

2. A $2,000 surcharge per family, or 2% of your gross income per family (whichever is greater), per year would be charged to every American household to fund the cost of this conflict. This charge would be in force for the duration of the war.

Now let's see who's in favor of this war.

[wordout]

26. wont work.

They'll use digital machines. And the lottery officials will be administration loyalists.

[Tace]

5. Chomsky Is Pro Draft For Similar Reasons

He believes a draft would galvanize those against war, which is the vast majority of Americans.

I think it would be a terrible price to pay.

[Boomer]

6. That's the whole point

The "terrible price" is exactly what a war should entail. Right now, the majority of Americans have no stake in the Iraq War, and as such can afford to ignore the lies that led to our involvements.

If our government goes to war in our name -- we, the people -- then it should be a decision that requires potential sacrifice on everyone's part. In that way, and only that way it appears, we can make citizens focus on the issue of why we go to war.

[wordout]

27. Then let him sign up.

[meganmonkey]

8. Something happened last night that made me rethink my views too

although I haven't changed my mind, I wonder about this.

Last night there was a vigil in Ann Arbor, right on the U of M campus. Right on campus. Yeah, it was the day before most places are having their vigils, mainly because there was a panel discussion afterwards with Juan Cole about exit strategies, but I know there were emails sent out to dozens of students email group lists so everyone knew about it.

Guess how many students showed up?

TWO.

TWO FUCKING STUDENTS showed up for a HALF-HOUR VIGIL on a Tuesday evening. ON CAMPUS!!! (U of Mich is a big school btw)

:wtf:

Will it take a draft, or a serious threat of a draft, to get these kids to be concerned with this?

I don't know. Like I said, I am not suddenly pro-draft, but it makes me wonder what it will take.

:(

[Neil Lisst]

9. I've always favored a year of National Service ...

... as mandatory, with many nonmilitary options, such as programs that put people working in hospices, hospitals, emergency response, environmental work, or a host of other areas in addition to military.

No one should have to serve in the military if they don't want. If required to put in a year, some will choose military, and they will help the military meet its noncombat needs. For every soldier in a war zone, there are many, many who manage supplies, get meals ready, guard the base, provide medical support, and such.

I believe everyone should go through the process of some form of universally mandated giving back, no exceptions, some time between age 18 and 23. When a person reaches 18 or 19, they owe the world for taking care of them nonstop for all that time, for creating all their toys and giving them those toys.

I think young people in that age group need to spend at least one year giving back, not just more taking.

[BeFree]

25. If you really wanted to end wars

You would draft 50 year olds.

The idea, as you expressed it, to incarcerate individuals as penance for their freedom, is scary. That you would take away freedom from anyone and make them kowtow to a government or greater society is anathema to everything America supposedly stands for.

[LoneDriver]

29. So you want to repeal the 13th amendment?

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Draft, national service, whatever you want to call it, sure sounds like involuntary servitude to me.

[cassiepriam]

10. Oh how I remember the Viet Nam lottery draft....

Was awful, everyone waiting on pins and needles to see if their birthday came up. A current draft could mobilize the public like nothing else.

[NNN0LHI]

11. Yea that draft mobilized Chimpy right into the Texas Air National Guard

What a success story that was. That draft really showed people with money and connections like him what patriotism is all about all right.

Don

[cassiepriam]

28. bingo seems like not much has changed.

[Rowdyboy]

12. Regardless of whether its a good idea or not, its always refreshing

to see a mind that is open to change. So many people refuse to even consider that rethinking a position is possible. Issue, like people, can evolve and sometimes change is necessary.

:thumbsup:

[sufrommich]

13. I think it would be an

incredibly arrogant idea.So you want to throw my kid to the wolves in order to get the marchers to the streets? It's bad enough the mothers of the volunteer army have to live with the fact that their kids are in Iraq for a lie,now we should send them all to force the issue?That's like saying we should end social security to bring attention to the plight of our pensioners.

[SammyWinstonJack]

24. Well said!

:applause:

[bluedonkey]

14. You're not

getting my son for your little experiment!
I will support you if you get everyone of those war supporters to the recruiting office.I volunteer to drive them!

[Renegade Six]

18. wow

such distaste for an idea that would drive home the war. Maybe a reality show would be a better idea. Or how about a draft based not on birthdates but household income level. Start it with #1 in sequential #. Of course this is obviously not an era of "the last shall be first", so we will start with the fithy rich first. How about, instead of military service as a psudo requirement for national office, you must have a child on active duty.

:sarcasm:

[TreasonousBastard]

15. It's a thought, but...

there are several problems with it.

For one thing, the Viet Nam war and draft didn't do a damn thing to stop militarism-- all that happened was that we stopped the draft. I would think that a new draft might simply feed the war machine without that much public outcry.

Moreover, if we think war, the draft, and militarism are wrong, why would we want to see more of it for the slim possibility that it might get so ugly that there would be a public outcry? This to me is a false choice, and an immoral one.

I have little hope that we will change years of celebrating war and victory and go back to the Monroe Doctrine isolationist days before WWII. Even if we did go back there, we weren't exactly peaceful then, either, what with wars in the Carribbean, Central America, the Pacific and Indian territories.

At the moment, the lack of a draft is very likely stopping us from even more adventures than we are in now. There is simply no force available for another war, and reintroducing the draft would simply give them more cannon fodder.

[countryjake]

16. I wouldn't wish that on anyone!

All our young men being at their mercy back then was bad enough, this crew in charge now would chew our youth up and spit 'em out, without a second thought. We've got to take away the fuel for their fire, not add to it! Organizing at colleges and high schools and right in front of their damn recruitment centers is what it takes; kids are freaked with this job-situation, competing with their folks for shit-paying jobs and options are thinner than ever before...they need support and encouragement to offset that desperation, not a death sentence.

When those Senators kept pushing that draft idea, I wrote and told em both, you don't bite off your nose to spite your face...we can't afford to lose another generation in that manner. Increase the educational opportunities, bring the jobs back to our country, and get the hell out of the Middle East!

[Mutley]

17. It wouldn't be worth it for those who would be drafted.

The ends don't justify the means.

[KharmaTrain]

19. Bring The War To Those Who Profit From It...Bring Back The Draft

I grew up during Vietnam with the draft hanging over my head. I still hear my late father screaming that if I didn't do well in school, they'd draft my ass the first moment they could. It didn't improve my GPA, but it sure made me stay in school and go off college.

If these right wing jackasses are so worried about "fighting them over there" then they need to share in that pain. If anything, they need to pay more, since they're the ones who feel the biggest need and have the most to gain. These assholes aren't willing to make a sacrafice willingly, so it's time for them to be forced.

I'm the parents of an 18-year old and 20-year old...and the last thing I'd want is to see either of my children forced to participate in this Iraq folly. It's my constant fear and my biggest issue...but if restarting the draft will create the outrage and open questioning about this invasion that forces us to get out, I'm all for it. If not, let the Freepers get dragged out of their trailers and made as Iraqi IED fodder.

[NNN0LHI]

20. A draft would create a pool of about 14 million new recruits

The pentagon surely wouldn't need or want that many new soldiers. A few hundred thousand at most would suit their needs just fine. So who gets drafted and who doesn't?

Don

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sufrommich]

22. In any war that goes on for more than a year or two,a volunteer

army becomes almost an individual right to "vote"for that particular conflict.That's why you are seeing the recruiters struggle to fill their quotas.Those in the age range are voting not to join in.A draft is the most efficient way to keep an unpopular war going strong.I would favor a draft in any real threat to our country,although I think in that case,we would have a lot of volunteers.

[NNN0LHI]

23. You got it

As long as people keep signing up Bush will certainly keep sending them to die in Iraq. Because he doesn't care. When people stop signing up he can't send them any more and this occupation is over with.

Don