Maureen Dowd scratches out the eyes of Judy Miller !

[kentuck]

If Don Imus was looking for a catfight this morning, he got it. Maureen Dowd could not hide her contempt for the White House scammee, Judy Miller. Although she maintained her civility throughout the interview, it was obvious there is little love lost between herself and Ms Miller.

She quoted a line from the movie, The Godfather, when she said "it was nothing personal, it's business". Maureen delivered the line almost as well as the bruised and battered Michael. She said that Ms Miller had "boundary" problems, when questioned about Judy Miller's comment about herself being the one that should have been sitting in Maureen's seat.

It was captivating TV. The only thing better would have been to have Ms Miller there also. No doubt, the ogres on the Imus Show would have gotten to see a "real" catfight.

[katinmn]

1. Maureen Dowd is a supporter of truth. No wonder she despises

Miller who was only in it for power and money, just like her patrons.

[NicoleM]

2. I hate that "catfight" shit.

It's sexist. If you wouldn't say it about two men in conflict, you shouldn't say it about two women.

Furthermore, Dowd isn't going after Miller for "catty" reasons. It's not like she's going around talking about how bad Miller's haircut is. She's talking about important stuff and to reduce it all to a catfight because they're women is offensive in the extreme.

[loudsue]

3. Thank you, Nicole! I second that!!

It's one of the MOST offensive sexist terms I've ever heard, and it diminishes the relevance of justified anger that a woman might have over injustice or wrong-doing.

Women attack when attack is called for. Women fight wars. Women fight for rights. Women fight for what is right. And, like men, women will fight to protect their homes and families.

Cats attack based on animal instincts, without thinking through the importance of what they're fighting for.

There is no similarity.

:kick::kick::kick:

[LostinVA]

6. And I third it -- catfight is sexist and patronizing

[tishaLA]

9. I agree

MoDo is going after Miller's ethics and integrity, not her wrinkles and skin care regimen.

[SpiralHawk]

36. You got it Nichole

Dowd is just doing her job. Thank heavens.

[emald]

4. catfight?

Doesn't that trivialize this whole affair? JM is a bought and paid for whore liar, paid to lie on the front page of a yellow dog paper who also shilled itself to the right wing lie. MD on the other hand has told truth. Catfight? WTF?

[kentuck]

5. Yes. It does trivialize it..

But that was the context that Don Imus and his red neck ogre followers described it as before and during the interview. Perhaps we should not report it as it was but as we wish it had been?

[zanne]

7. I'll be the metaphor police.

Comparing two women having a debate or arguing to a "catfight" is very insulting to women. Have you ever seen a catfight? It's all noise and very little power. The phrase "scratch your eyes out" is also offensive and refers to the same thing.

[kentuck]

8. Can we get the rest of the "metaphor" police to shut down this thread?

The word "catfight" is worse than "mother fucker" and "bitch slap". Being a metaphor police must be such an over-whelming responsibility.

[zanne]

11. What are you saying?

I don't know why you're being insulting. I didn't write that thread to be insulting to anyone. What's up?

[GreenArrow]

15. no kidding

:thumbsup:

[KoKo]

22. Dowd said on Imus that her column would be called "catty" while Friedman's

column wouldn't. In other words, when she writes about Miller folks immediately call it a cat fight because of one woman criticizing another, but if Friendman criticized a man he wouldn't be catfighting and if he criticized Miller it would be taken seriously.

She said that she had gotten so used to the term "catfight" that she just decided to play along with it and it doesn't bother her. I think that comment was in reference to her new book which she thinks might be called "catty."

Anyway...those who heard the show will remember the exact quotes...I gave them the best I could not having a pencil handy while viewing.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

10. ms dowd used the word catfight

just heard replay on msnbc

[pimpbot]

12. Holy crap, I think we're about to watch a catfight break out

right here on DU!!! :evilgrin:

[zanne]

14. For a liberal website, there are quite a few Neanderthals here.

Whenever anything involving feminism is brought up, we can always count on at least two or three cavemen to enter the fray. Women make up half the population. Have some respect.

[kentuck]

20. And quite a few thin-skinned people, also...

Grow a backbone. Stop acting like a wimp. Just because Imus and his crew mentioned "catfight" and Maureen used the term, we should be above that?
Maybe we could call it a "feline tussle"? Why do you hate our country?

[zanne]

23. When you become a woman...

You can tell me all about it. Until then, I don't think that continuing to use the type of language that ridicules and demoralizes women is "funny" or "cute". Learn.

[kentuck]

24. With all the ugliness and murder in the world....

..and you are getting uptight over the word "catfight", is beyond my comprehension. With women fighting and dying in Iraq and leaving their children without a mother, and you are worried about the word "catfight"? You are the one continuing the stereotype of the emotional woman that cannot reason and is totally irrational and do more harm to the advance of women than any word in the dictionary, unfortunately.

[zanne]

26. See my post to "She WhoMustBeObeyed"

[satireV]

43. Let's see if you can keep your promise

:sarcasm: on

Please do not use the following words:

neanderthal
caveman
feminism


They are all offensive.

:sarcasm: off

[QC]

48. Lots of sanctimonious prigs, too. n/t

[zanne]

13. And your point is.....?

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

19. just saying mo dowd started it

[tishaLA]

18. She used the word catfight to critique "catfight ideology"

She said that it was being played as if it were a catfight--in yesterday's NY Post, for example--but that a male columnist would not have the same things said about him if he criticized a male colleague. In other words, it is about the sexism of those who frame the debate rather than the debaters themselves.

[Catchawave]

16. Maureen was right....

and she's being swiftboated by the MSM too. Judy Miller's that kid we hated in high school, just my opinion, I could be wrong :bounce:

[oneold1-4u]

17. "catfight-top dog?"

As metaphors go, they mean little. The killing catfight and top dog are usually both males, and stupid ones at that! The greater part of the media, today, is worthless, so their stupid pundits should be of the least concern. If one can make out any form of truth in the news today, then make only that a need-to-read!

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

21. I don't give a fuck about the word catfight

It is an apt description of the way the media is playing the Dowd/Miller feud. And "scratches out the eyes" is sexist? Give me a break.

Dowd and Miller are both preening print princesses. Yes, I called them princesses. That's what they are. Neither one gets any props from me. Dowd is just so overjoyed to have a bandwagon to jump on. Clue for Mo - every time you repeat that story about the chair at the WH briefing, you make it abundantly clear that it IS personal.

[zanne]

25. But if the word offends people on this board....

And the posters realize that the word is offensive, it shouldn't be used. Period. It doesn't even matter what the particular word is. If you told me that the word "daisy" offends you, for whatever reason, I would stop using it, right? Otherwise, I'd be insulting you, and why would I want to do that?

[kentuck]

27. And if I say that half the words you use offend me....

should you stop using those? Of course not!

I fold. The pot is yours. :)

[zanne]

29. Obviously, you don't want to understand.

You can learn or you can choose not to. I tried.

[Marr]

30. I wouldn't, because your request would be unreasonable.

"Daisy" is a word and if you don't like it, tough shit. Similarly, "cat fight" is part of the lexicon and if you don't like it- well... feel free to point it out, but I'll say whatever I damn well please, thanks.

[zanne]

37. Like the guy with the "Moran" sign...

He used his freedom of expression, too. It just demoralizes women and makes you look less intelligent.

[Marr]

Yes, I'm just like the guy with the "moran" sign because I'm not

hypersensitive about the word "catfight".

You got me.

Look- I think "catfight" is a good description of this situation. Two pampered NYT princesses exchanging personal attacks.

[crispini]

33. Maureen Dowd used the word first.

The posters on this board are simply reporting her use of it.

So now you're saying that people on DU should censor WHAT OTHER PEOPLE SAY when reporting it on DU?

That's a bit far out.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

38. I don't use words whose usage is discouraged by DU administrators

That's the extent of my self-censorship.

[Marr]

28. Agreed completely. I'm no Maureen Dowd fan.

[No Exit]

31. Judy is a scammER, not a scammEE. That said, I appaud Ms. Dowd!

[maxsolomon]

32. pissing contest

ever heard that phrase? cockfight? sausage party?

RELAX!

2 women journalists criticizing each other is a rarity. status & power are overwhelmingly important to both of them, with stenographer miller being the most obsessed. as evidenced by the success of the white house's access-to-power flattery strategy. modo is entranced with herself.

and don't treat dowd like our savior. remember 2000.

[zanne]

35. Just please try to understand.

While not all the women here agree with me, obviously, alot of women here do get offended by words like these. We wouldn't call an Arab a "camel jockey", would we? As we attempt to construct a progressive society, we have to be aware of the language we use. If we prefer the status quo, or even wish to regress to an earlier time, then words like "catfight" or "scratch her eyes out" are appropriate and even useful to further that cause. If we claim to be progressives, we have to talk that way.

[kentuck]

40. I understand where you are coming from zanne...

And there are words that are very offensive which we should never use - they are historically painful. However, in our desire to be sensitive to these types of words, we must be careful not to be so sensitive that we stifle free speech and become so politically correct that we become a laughingstock.

With that said, Don Imus and Maureen both referenced c*tf*ght in their dialogue. Should we not report that in the context? But, your sensitivities are appreciated - and needed.

[maxsolomon]

47. i do understand

in the 80's, if a man used the C*** word, he'd be excoriated by every woman in the room. now, both my wife & stepdaughter call each other "beotches" & "puta" to be funny. C*** has been similarly reclaimed by sex-positive women, specifically the lesbian community. i hear it all the time. i read it all the time. but like "nigga", i, a white man, would never ever in a million years SAY it out loud, even in bed.

derogative terms can be robbed of their impact by recontextualization. "catfight" barely qualifies as derogatory. as progressives, we risk being dismissed as elitist killjoys when we insist on grammatical perfection. the english language is fun. lets use it all.

[NightOwwl]

34. Am I the only woman here who doesn't find the term "catfight" offensive?

Sheesh. It's a freakin metaphor. :eyes:

[zanne]

39. So is "I got Jewed".....

Just a metaphor, right? Sheesh. No big deal.

[kentuck]

41. Not analogous...

That term brings up historical pain and prejudices that should not be revived. The word "catfight" doesn't remind anyone of such ...

[hfojvt]

44. no it is quite analogous

catfight brings up the historical pain and prejudice of women being 2nd class citizens who are petty, emotional, not to be taken seriously, merely sexual entertainment for men. If MoDo is a princess, is Herbert a prince?

[zanne]

45. Thousands of years of oppression...

That's not "historical pain and prejudice"? Shows that you're not taking this seriously.

[NightOwwl]

46. You need to check your Merriam-Webster.

catfight: an intense fight or argument between two women.

Your comparison is offensive. The term "catfight" isn't.

[erinlough]

42. No you are not.

I have three cats and to watch them fight is frightening. They are out for blood, so "catfight" describes how I fight. I fight to win. Period.

Plus, I think cats are far more intelligent than dogs, so to have it used to refer to women is a compliment.

[hippiegranny]

49. Well actually, to be accurate

more catfights take place between two males cats. My males are always coming home all beat up ("but you should see the OTHER guy," they tell me) but my feamils don't. So whoever coined the phrase "catfight" to be a metaphor for two women going at it didn't know cats very well.