Gergen: "People will ask...were we led into Iraq by criminal means?"

[milkyway]

"It's not that the abuse of power here is anything like Watergate or Iran-Contra even," says Gergen, now the director of Harvard's Center For Public Leadership. "Rather it is, if indictments come, they may be of the people closest to the president and vice president of the United States. And they will re-open the wounds of Iraq, and people will ask the question, if indictments come, were we led into Iraq by criminal means?"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/10/26/politics/main981236.shtml

This is restrained, reasonable, David Gergen using the "C" word to describe bush's campaign for war. I am shocked that he used the word criminal, rather than some softer word like "misled." Gergen has gone beyond the idea that we were misled into going to war, and suggests that it was criminal. Not many Dem politicians have used that word yet.

Gergen will be proved wrong, however, on his abuse of power quote.

[soleft]

1. I wasn't aware the wounds of Iraq were closed

:shrug:

[milkyway]

8. Good point. That comment makes no sense at all.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

28. Wounds can't be healed as long as people are getting shot

That comment was dumb as a stump.

[Norquist Nemesis]

2. He's still being careful to distance Bush/Cheney

from any criminal activity though. When he says "people closest to the president and vice president", it infers that Bush and Cheney had no knowledge or involvement.

[electropop]

3. I think his "abuse of power" quote is dead-on.

This is nothing like Watergate or Iran-Contra even. Watergate was bad. Iran-Contra was far worse. This is infinitely worse still. I think that's what Gergen meant. That's why he said "Iran-Contra _even_."

[springhill]

17. I think you interpretation if off because.........

right after that he says, ""Rather it is, if indictments come, they may be of the people closest to the president and vice president of the United States. So in looking at the full context I think he is saying what makes it so bad is not the crime but how close the people involved in this are to the president and vice-president. And he is way off on this one. He is not looking at at as misleading us into a war that his killed thousands of people needlessly. That's my take on it anyway.

[electropop]

18. Either way you look at it, Gergen is a fair indicator for moderate GOP

thinkers. And his thoughts are bad news for the regime.

[DURHAM D]

19. I caught it live and Gergen meant - Iran-Contra and Watergate

were both a greater abuse of power (by the White House) than Plamegate. He seems to be limiting his view to just the staff members outing a CIA operative and assumes that the Pres and V-Pres were not involved, seems to not know about Brewster Jennings and did not relate Plamegate to the war.

I was surprised by his statement but than realized he is speaking as a former White House staffer and thinking only about what the White House did as it directly related to Valerie and Joe. Truth is - Nixon himself consistently used government resources to punish ordinary Americans, etc.

[maryallen]

23. Plamegate is worse, and Gergen ought to know it!

Starting an illegal war based on trumped up evidence versus breaking and entering?

[seabeyond]

4. i like gergen. i think he works hard at being honest. i agree with

you assessment too.

[Arkana]

5. Why the hell has it taken so long for people to realize this?????

[DemocracyInaction]

6. A third grader could have known from the get go that we

..were lead into war by criminal means!! I'm glad Gergen brings this up but I'm sick of the rank ignorance and outright lying of the media and these pundits in their pretense that this administration was innocent and good. They weren't that stupid--they were just complicit, cowards and butt kissers and 2000 of ours are dead because of it and tens of thousands Iraqis. I just can't have warm fuzzy feelings for any of these people.

[Ladyhawk]

16. Word. Even I knew and I was still a registered Republican. n/t

[The Sleeper]

7. Ask the soldier ...

...who has shrapnel lodged in his brain from an IED if this worse than watergate. Ask his family....

[bluedawg12]

9. Not anything like Watergate- worse!

Breaking into a shrinks office.

Breaking into another country.

Hmmm.....

[BamaBecky]

24. Agreed! "It's not anything like....." Bullsheet

[bluedawg12]

26. BamaBecky- Gergen seems a decent fellow.

He likes to play the wise and measured conservative.

Frankly I think he is actually appalled by the blatant power grubbing of the admin. But, he still is a servant to his ideology and will always down play their disasters.

[KharmaTrain]

10. All The Dots Still Haven't Been Connected

People are expecting Fitzgerald to put the Iraq invasion on trial. That's not his job...it's just to investigate if a CIA agent's cover was blown, who did it and if there were others who were involved in blowing that cover. In getting those answers, he has to touch on areas that involve the rush to war and all the lies and corruption, but his mandate doesn't allow him to go there. That's a job for Congress and other courts.

There's a large pregnant pause going on these days as everyone waits for Fitzgerald to make his play. Democrats are afraid to jump the gun and throw around words that could come ricocheting back at them like superballs if there are no indictments. Until this gang is found guilty and dragged kicking and screaming with the White House curtains in their hands, the right wing echo machine will continue to pounce on any Democrat who dares to go too far ahead of the moment.

Right now, the word criminal applies, and Gergen uses it, in the sense that there's a criminal investigation going on. He's careful to say those inside the White House are criminals...but read between the lines and you can see he's seeing Watergate all over again.

He also knows that there's no real political upside for a Democrat to come out and say a thing right now as the Repugnicans continue their own kibuki theater. It's still too far out from the 2006 elections to make real gains and the political situation continues to get more fluid as this regime attempts to juggle scandals, a splintering base, its own corruption and a failing war all at once.

[Ellen Forradalom]

20. Well put.

Thanks.

[jaysunb]

32. Insightful post.

You've done a great job of putting this in a proper perspective. Thanks ! :toast:

[Tennessee Gal]

11. Gergen gets it!

That is a good thing.

[the_spectator]

12. Gergen has been saying some nice stuff recently -

There's Gergen, there's Scowcroft ... we just need one more of these elder-statesmen Repub types to come out against *, and we'll have "The Three Wise Men" of Fitzmas!

"We three kings of Georgetown are
Letting you know that Bush ain't his Pa
Little Master's a sheer disaster
(Though we'd never say this to "Bar")

Oh! Shrub of failure, Shrub of blight
(Your visage ain't no royal sight!)
Downward trending, Party ending
G.O.P. will say "good night!"

[woodsprite]

13. Just had a great idea for punishment for those who forced this

illegal invasion of Iraq. Bring back the stocks!!! Everybody who is reponsible should get one lash for each American soldier who died. -- 2000 lashes. Then we could go one better - add an hour (for each Iraqi civilian who died) of public service rebuilding Iraq - works out to over 12 years. That should make those suckers think twice. Unfortunately, it ain't gonna happen. Seems we'd take alot of the DLC and the repub party out of the political picture this way.

Just in one of those moods today I guess... ;)

[The Backlash Cometh]

14. Re-open the wounds of Iraq? When did they heal?

I guess what they mean is that the Administration thought they had most Americans fooled, and now they're disappointed that they didn't stay fooled?

[NNN0LHI]

15. Gergen knows whats on the line here

My Republican mother asked me about this very question today on the phone. We had not discussed Fitzgerald or any of this stuff before then?

Don

[DemoTex]

21. But why is Gergen soft-peddling the abuse-of-power angle?

This seems to be quintessential abuse of power to me. I'm I missing something?

Mac

[DURHAM D]

25. I think Gergen was limiting his thoughts to WH staffers.

Did they abuse power? He was not (in that moment) thinking about the war - the war was going full blast befor Plamegate happened and the staffers were not the ones who made the decision to take us to war - it was our Pres, our V-Pres, Rummy, Colin and most of our wonderful U.S. Senators.

[Hubert Flottz]

22. Smarter than the average GOPer!

I think this thing is going to end up blowing up in their faces and being the WMD that takes out the evil dictator! Can you say "Mushroom Cloud"...AND...One man's mushroom cloud is another man's cloud 9! I LIKE it!

[bluedawg12]

27. Gergen is a traditional conservative and has served

sveral presidents.

he is measure and cautious in his speech usually.

But, he has been critical of many things this admin. has done- as every honest conservative should be since shrub is not a conservative in the true sense. He is something else, a right wing radical maybe?

[EVDebs]

29. Read Alan Friedman's Spider's Web and pay attn to subtitle !

Spider's Web: The Secret History of How the White House Illegally Armed Iraq

www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/12/17/1615235

Gergen's IQ is higher than 50, so I guess he already knows the answer to his rhetorical question. Or maybe not, politicians determine when 2 + 2 = 4, as George Orwell once noted.

Oh, BTW, who praytell has been buttering Gergen's bread since he left government work ?

[JJackFlash]

30. What a powerful way to put it!

"...were we led into Iraq by criminal means?"
Those means being fraud, treachery and forgery.
Oh, we have interesting times ahead of us.

[upi402]

31. Just salvaging the Repug Party

Never trust a conservative, I say.
Gergen is just trying to salvage the scorched earth that Bush Inc. has left in its wake.

[lovuian]

33. A preemptive strike on a country and on very weak reasons!!!

and the News Media and Congress helped!!!