Does Kerry's admitting he was duped on Iraq make you more willing

[WI_DEM]

to support him in 2008?

I will say this, I admire him for saying it--he was duped and lied to. We need more Democrats who voted for the resolution to say this.

on edit: I changed 2004 to 2008--I just can't get '04 out of my mind.

[meganmonkey]

1. 2004 was last year...

:P

[INdemo]

32. The majority of Americans believed *

Kerry won the election of 2004 and I believe the Iraq war vote issue was packaged in Republican propaganda and it obviously worked....

[meganmonkey]

33. Okay,

the original post said 2004 instead of 2008, until the poster edited it.

That's what I was referring to.

I am not sure what you are talking about, or if you meant it for me :shrug:

[INdemo]

36. Sorry ..what I meant was..

the majority of Americans (Democrats included)believed that Bush was telling the truth about WMD. The fact that Kerry voted for the war means he was misled like everyone else and during the campaign the Republicans used this along with numerous other propaganda schemes against him and its obvious it worked.

[mike_c]

2. how about we support someone who was not "duped?"

Sheesh.

[tk2kewl]

6. I agree whole-heartedly

he wasn't "duped" anyway... he voted for authorizing the war out of politics plain and simple. at least now he is willing to admit it was a mistake unlike clinton and schumer who are afraid of being painted as flip-floppers.

anyone who says they would still vote for the invasion belongs before the Hague alongside the bushCo cabal IMO

I say we go with Gore/Clark

[HereSince1628]

16. Yeah, how would you like to try to whip up the precinct for a Doop?

How is it we knew the intelligence was so bad and Kerry with all his congressional resources didn't?

The man is dupable.

[PatriotMom]

65. I don't think any of them were duped, we were duped

I have NO faith in any politicians any more. We better get back to WE THE PEOPLE.

[TheCowsCameHome]

3. Support him in 2004? That's history. Do you mean 2008?

[GRocky]

4. It was a political move.

Like everything else that's done on capitol hill.

[LittleClarkie]

62. Nah. It took him too long to get there

and I can see the footprints.

His talk with Cindy and his questioning of Condi were both indications that he was headed toward what he said today about pulling out and setting a timeline.

Imagine it wasn't a calculation. I think that's the difference between those of us who are supporters of his, and those who are not. We don't see calculations. We see a good man. And if you pay enough attention to him, you can see where he came from and kind of predict where he's going.

So we Kerry folk have been expecting this speech for at least a month now. Pleased we are, but not terribly surprised.

[Ian David]

5. I've been saying this since the first debates

Kerry needed to say, "I was lied to, America was lied to, and like many Americans I was fooled by the President's lies."

Personally, I didn't buy into it until Collin Powell stood in front of the TV cameras. Powell is the asshole that fooled me.

And I believed Powell right until the day I saw the art museums being looted.

Fool me once, motherfuckers.

Fool me twice... well, better hope you don't live in Syria.

[GR]

7. Sorry, He Wasn't Duped...He Tried To Dupe Us...

into thinking he was duped...But I'm still glad he went as far as he did. But I'd vote for him again, if he's the nominee, but I'm not sure he should be the nominee. As a matter of fact, I'm against it right now.

[feistydem]

8. I don't really understand how he could be duped when others weren't

I like Kerry, and I supported him the last go 'round. But I think he was just going with the gang on Iraq because BushCo had successfully made it so UNpopular to oppose the war.

I want some new blood in the Dem party --and NOT the DLC centrists' ideas of a good Dem.

[porphyrian]

9. I do respect him more for admitting his mistake.

It doesn't make me feel better about him not understanding it in the first place, since so many Democrats he was meant to represent did know better at the time. And, while I'm glad he's coming out and saying it now, it would've been nice to hear it said sooner.

[pberq]

10. One problem: Kerry knew he was being lied to

from the beginning.

Yes, it is good for him to say this - better than continuing to support the debacle in Iraq.

But the reality is that there was plenty, and I mean plenty, of info available in 2002 that the administration was lying.

[SeattleRob]

11. NO

The fact that we were duped into the Iraq mess was evident before the war started. There has been a mountain of evidence for such a long time. If he is this slow to ackowledge the Bush Neo-Con job, then it makes me have less faith in him.

[Pithy Cherub]

12. Kerry and every other IWR aye voting Dem

did not and still have not called for an impeachment of the Bush Cheney cabal for misuse of War Powers. If those Dems beleive they were mislead, then there should be a punitive action for the liar(s) involved. Admit. Apologize. Atone.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. "Duh, I'm really stupid! Vote for me!" Great campaign slogan.

I don't buy it. I find it impossible to believe that Kerry and the other collaborators were unaware that Bush was going to war.

[aldian159]

14. I don't count

I love John Kerry, this just gives me more reason to support any run he has in 2008.

I worked for him in primary season '04, I'll do it again, but a little more motivated that he mia culpaed.

[HERVEPA]

15. You're kidding, right folks?

If I knew he was being lied to then, why didn't he?
He has access to the same sources I do and more!
If he can't get on the internet and look at DU and and other sites that provided the information, then we need someone more savvy (or less afraid).

[emulatorloo]

23. Maybe you're kidding - Senators had Top Secret Briefings, or did you have

access to those too?

Shiny fixed intelligence. The finest that Bushco could buy.

Even Wes Clark said he was convinced by these breifings -- Rummy etc did some for retired generals where they showed exactly where the WMDs were stored etc etc. I am too lazy to google right now, but Clark said this to Russert during primary 2004.

[ErisFiveFingers]

49. If they couldn't convince the UN...

...then they had no case. Shrubco knew that other intelligence sources would call their bluff, and that's what eventually happened on a global level.... so, lock up the Senators, and scare them with Satellite photos that showed things that weren't actually really there?

[Garbo 2004]

50. Nevertheless 23 Senators, including one repub and one independent, voted

against IWR.

Perhaps they weren't sold on the shiny fixed intel. Or they didn't opt for political expediency in spite of the political climate. Perhaps some of them remembered the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, another resolution that turned out to be based on a fraud. Perhaps they figured they were being bumrushed into a resolution that gave the Pres far too much power with restrictions that they could not possibly hold him to. Whatever the case, these Senators saw the same intel and yet came to a different conclusion regarding the IWR. Go figure.

[LittleClarkie]

58. Today the new bit was not that he was lied to

but that he accepts part of the blame for what happen subsequently. I admire him for that mea culpa.

He said he was lied to, and what a mistake it was to trust, if not Bush, then the system around Bush, a year ago. He seemed to think there were people around Bush who would make sure he did the right thing, or something close to it. He didn't seem to realize the extent to which Bush had been hyjacked by the neocons, and that the chain of decision making went from Cheney to Rummy, and nowhere else. Not the CIA. Not to the military or anyone else who knew better. Cheney to Rummy. That was it.

It was the people around Bush he trusted, at least some of them. Big mistake. But that part wasn't new today. The new part was the "I accept my part of the responsibility."

[The Backlash Cometh]

17. Whoops! My vote went the wrong way! .... I think!

I really do need to put my glasses on when I read DU.

I would support Kerry in 2008 especially if he comes out strong on this issue. He can even make a dent on the flip-flopping label by using this as a real-life example of situations that do come up which requires a Senator to change his vote.

The key is that the Bush Administration was all about deception, if they intentionally deceived Congress to go to war, then why would you be surprised to find Senators who fell for it?

I have a big problem, however, for Senators who do not step up and change their votes, now that we know what we know today.

[in_cog_ni_to]

18. No. n/t

[asthmaticeog]

19. No way.

*I* knew it was all bullshit. If a Senator can truthfully claim not to have known, he's an incompetent. Otherwise, he's an appeaser and a liar, complicit in the murder of 2,000 troops and countless Iraqi innocents.

[Ladyhawk]

52. I figured it out and I was fucking Republican at the time.

:shrug:

I will not support Kerry in the primary in 08. He had his chance already. I'm ready for someone who is 1) stronger and 2) isn't so easily duped. We need a straight-talker who isn't afraid to "offend" the Republicans. Kerry is too much of a politician. We need someone more real. "Real Deal"? I don't think so.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

20. One of the things I DETEST about W&Co is their inability to admit mistakes

I respect Kerry for this admission.

[emulatorloo]

39. Only yesterday, DU was frothing at the mouth because no Dem would admit

that he/she had been duped.

From Kerry's speech today:

The country and the Congress were misled into war. I regret that we were not given the truth; as I said more than a year ago, knowing what we know now, I would not have gone to war in Iraq. And knowing now the full measure of the Bush Administration’s duplicity and incompetence, I doubt there are many members of Congress who would give them the authority they abused so badly. I know I would not. The truth is, if the Bush Administration had come to the United States Senate and acknowledged there was no “slam dunk case” that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, acknowledged that Iraq was not connected to 9/11, there never would have even been a vote to authorize the use of force — just as there’s no vote today to invade North Korea, Iran, Cuba, or a host of regimes we rightfully despise.

[mazzarro]

21. I admire him, but...

I will acknowledge his fortitude for doing this. However he is still hobnobbing with the DLC and to me that is the biggest flaw in him and the campaign he waged in 2994 and will be waging in 2008 - if he runs again. If he does not categorically renounce and break with the DLC, I will ascribe this declaration of duping to be only a political move and nothing else.

[karynnj]

59. He is not hobnobbing with the DLC

He did not go to the big DLC meeting this past summer. AL From when asked which DLCers might run - gave 4 names (Clinton, Bayh, Vilsack, and Warner) - as Kerry has given some signals that he likely will run and regularly polls second to Hillary, while the other 3 rarely break 5%, Kerry is obviously not considered DLC by the DLC.

[sidwill]

22. NO! He wasn't duped!

Look all of us here knew that the justifiocation for war with Iraq was weak at BEST, and outright lying at worst.

Kerry not only knew this but anybody who has followed Kerry's career KNOWS that on principle he opposes war unless it is absolutely neccesary.

Iraq by ANY strech was never absolutely neccesary and Kerrys yea vote on IWR was simply him positioning himself for the 04 election.

[yodermon]

24. No.

I knew the WMD claims were bunk in 2002.
Will Pitt knew the WMD claims were bunk in 2002.

How come Kerry was so easily duped?

I will not vote for him in the primaries.

[BlueManDude]

25. They lied to me too - but I wasn't duped.

[liveoaktx]

26. No. He said he was a fighter... but he was not. I don't want him to run

[Fescue4u]

27. Kerry should have known better

I wasnt duped, but Kerry was?

Come on, I expect more from our leaders.

[napi21]

28. He should have had the courage to say that directly to Shrub

on stage during the debates! He didn't! It's nice that he's now found that courage, AFTER it's become politically correct to do so!

Sorry, I voted for him in 2004, not because I really wanted him as president, but because I DIDN'T want Shrub!

He doesn't get another chance with me!

[Hell Hath No Fury]

29. If he was truly "duped"....

he is too stupid to be President.

Boxer wasn't "duped". Kucinich wasn't "duped".


You are a day late and a dollar short, Mr. Kerry. Sorry.

[hogwyld]

37. Excellent post

I would love to see a Kucinich/Boxer or Boxer/Kucinich ticket in '08. Feingold would be good too.

[emulatorloo]

44. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5176882&mesg_id=5177608

[Jose Diablo]

30. Kerry had his chance during his investigation of BCCI and Iran-Contra

And again during the Ohio election fraud to bust these guys chops. But he didn't.

I'd say his rah rah days during college has taken the fight out of him. He views this corruption as just so much politics.

These corrupt politicians, and their enablers have brought this country to the brink of destruction. I think we are over the edge now, we just haven't realized it yet.

I won't support a crook or an enabler for a crook ever again. If the Democratic party does not have it within themselves to turn this around, then what choice do have but go with a party that will.

If another 'Kerry' is elected in the primary, then this party will not get my vote in the general election.

[Stephanie]

31. How come WE knew and he didn't?

What about the MILLIONS who marched on February 13 2005, The World Says No to War? Why did MILLIONS know they were being lied to but Kerry fell for it?

[karynnj]

61. I assume you mean Feb 13, 2003

Kerry had to vote in OCT 2002 - The world knew because the inspectors were in and found no wmd and were destroying missiles, The inspectors were let in because Saddam agreed when the UN demanded it. The UN demanded it after Bush and Blair took it to the UN AFTER the IWR vote. Kerry WAS LOUDLY DEMANDING that Bush give the inspectors more time in Feb/March 2003 - when Bush invaded Kerry said regime change was needed in THIS country.

S

[Bjornsdotter]

34. Not a Chance

I wasn't sold on him the first time around, but I voted for him. However, I wasn't fooled by the bullshit coming from Bush Co....I need a candidate that was smart enough AND brave enough to have said that the war was trumped up.

Cheers!

[DanCa]

35. Kerry man , I dunno any more about him

The guys war record is amazing, I donated for the first time this year. If he gets the party I will vote for him without complaint - however- I just dont know about him any more.
My heart broke in 04 when he lost, I went into depression for three weeks. I guess I would feel better if he would have more vigorusly investigated voter fraud. I'll say this though me and him have the same taste in music. No retreat no surrender is my favorite Boss song.

[Greyhound]

38. Far too little, way too late. n/t

[NightOwwl]

40. He can't even say the "L" word.

What a disappointment.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WinkyDink]

42. Okay, how was this brilliant Senator (and no joke here) duped,

and I WASN'T??

Puh-leeze.

[emulatorloo]

45. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5176882&mesg_id=5177608

[Solly Mack]

43. No

[eridani]

46. Unsure. He also needs to take a stand--

--on voter verified paper ballots.

[upi402]

47. Vote for DUPED!

yeah right
he sure took a stand in Ohio.:sarcasm:

[mondo joe]

48. Why would I support someone dumber than me?

Besides -- his responses on this issue have more facets than a Rubik's Cube.

[greyl]

51. Example of a bad poll question.

Is this one of those computerized pre-employment personality tests? :)

[LittleClarkie]

60. Esp. since I support him and my answer is no

I didn't need today's speech to support him. And I don't support him any more than I did. But then, I was already there, so where was there to go.

And it's also badly worded because the biggest point wasn't "lied to" because that wasn't new. He'd said that more than once already.

The significant bit was the mea culpa. That and the timeline and the call for withdrawl.

[Beelzebud]

53. Kerry should have said all this during the campaign. Too little, too late

[Warren DeMontague]

54. No, but he's welcome to join me in supporting the Next President of the US

Al Gore.

[garybeck]

55. NO. I didn't believe their lies, why did Kerry??

[LittleClarkie]

56. No, I'm just as willing as I was

but it wasn't that he said he was duped. He said that a year ago. He said he accepted part of the blame for where we are now in Iraq. I thought that was even more significant.

[Justice Is Comin]

57. NO!

And I voted for the first time in my life. Almost 60 years. He is the best president we never had and he doesn't know how to go about doing what it takes to become president.

[WildEyedLiberal]

63. I love all the telepaths on this thread

"NO!!!1 He wasn't DUPED!!1"

Can I please borrow your crystal ball so that I, too, may look into the minds of others? :eyes:

The stupidity here is astonishing. We do FR's work for them; they might as well stop bashing Dems, because DU takes care of that, all right.

[Garbo 2004]

64. If Kerry was "duped" then he's dumber and more credulous than I am and I

don't think he is.

Remember this was a guy who was a target of the Nixon White House. Kerry also investigated Iran/Contra and BCCI. Think Kerry was completely unaware that some of the old Iran/Contra gang were back in the Administration? He didn't know how they operated? Lying is what they do. Circumventing Congressional restrictions and laws is what they do to secure their goals.

Kerry didn't have a clue what the Administration and its players were like? True, Congress didn't sign a totally blank check, but it didn't have enforceable restrictions either. It gave Bush a gun and the bullets and relied on promises that he wouldn't use them unless certain conditions were met. But once he had what he wanted there was really nothing to stop him, was there?

So the fellow who came back from Viet Nam and asked Congress, "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a lie?" and knew the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution was the lie that enabled the escalation of the Viet Nam war, this guy, when it became his turn to vote for another war resolution, was just a victim of yet another duplicitous Administration?

23 of his fellow Senators also were lied to and yet didn't vote for the IWR.