Remember All The "Bush Is TOAST" and "Kerry In A LANDSLIDE" Posts?

[arwalden]

Are we setting ourselves up for more disappointment? Are the optimistic predictions and hyping of unsubstantiated rumors from questionable sources going to raise our expectations to the point that no matter what the outcome--disappointment is sure to follow?

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

1. Seems we may be.

[timber84]

5. I don't remember any Kerry in a landslide topics.

A lot of its going to be close ones though

[Branjor]

11. I do. Plenty of them.

[Stephanie]

13. I posted one myself

I still think I was right, tho.

[Lerkfish]

93. I posted one myself, also

I still think I was right, before diebold.

[belle]

71. Me too. I'll still take the chance. We survived that disappointment,

after all. If this turns out to be another one--well, it'll suck, but we'll live through that, too. Meanwhile, I still hold out hope. And popcorn.

:popcorn:

[izzybeans]

34. If you are an Air America listener that was the sign off of many of the

calls on several of the shows, especially Randi's. I think that either spilled over from there, or spilled over there from here and other places.

[arwalden]

56. Yeah... It Was Pretty Embarrassing

I may have even posted one myself after watching Bush's debate performances.

[maximovich]

9. "WE"?

Oh...OK!

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

12. Excuse me?

Do you have a problem?

[maximovich]

19. Ooooh... I Think You Do Actually

Tone it down a notch.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

22. I'll post however I please, thank you.

[maximovich]

40. Yes We Will

later....

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

43. What? Did I miss something?

What are you talking about?

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ronnykmarshall]

2. Bush is going down!!

Cheney will resign!

[catzies]

96. He's toast, because I talked to my neighbor, who said her brother said

that his wife's cousin said that he hates Bush now!

So, OMG, that means...

...nothing.

;)

[WI_DEM]

3. I remember both of those types of posts

and that's why I agree we must take a wait and see attitude. But we can't help but be a wee bit excited.

[Lex]

4. Oh no! Is Diebold involved in some way?

[ronnykmarshall]

30. So is the DLC!!!

[emulatorloo]

33. lol - n/t

[KansDem]

91. Why, yes, now that you mention it...Diebold machines will tally the votes

of the Grand Jury.

"Reports from the Special Prosecutor's office indicate that of the 23 members of the Grand Jury, 87 chose not to indict"

??
:(

[swag]

6. Yeah, those were sure good times.

[asthmaticeog]

25. Hell yeah! Remember when "American Idiot" was gonna turn the tide?

And I think some fella named Schpringstein or something was gonna turn all the working-class swing voters. Ah, we were so innocent then...

[Kolesar]

29. Howard Stern! Howard Stern!!

[swag]

39. Mosh! Right before the election!

eminem, my hero!

[shantipriya]

7. Disappointment

I sincerely hope NOT!!!!

[Sanity Claws]

8. But Kerry did win. Election fraud allowed Bush to get the WH

again.
I don't Fitzgerald and the Grand Jury are subject to the same manipulation. I have my hopes up.

[Nightjock]

15. You beat me too it

He did win. In a semi-landslide.

But my hopes for the end of bushco are tempered with the reality of how they squeak out of everything.

But I have this weird feeling they have run out of ways to escape trouble because they have a bloodhound (Fitz) on thier asses.

[mod mom]

116. You're Correct. Blackwell has nothing to do with GJ vote tabulation!

[Der Blaue Engel]

10. The only reason our expectations weren't met a year ago

was foul play.

"Expecation is the root of all heartache."

I have this Shakespeare quote taped to my monitor to remind me of how I'm going to feel when I get rejections to my novel query letters...but I still send them out.

[catzies]

110. That's a good Shakespeare quote and I'll share my fave on that topic

But I have no idea who said it.

"Happiness is an exercise in expectation management."

Works for me. :/

[terrya]

14. Yes, we sure are.

I understand the optimism. I understand it.

But all of this "Fitzmas!" stuff is making me very uneasy.

Like you said, we've been down this road before.

Nothing that has been speculated here...and it is speculation...leads me to think that it's a certainty there will be indictments. Or, even if there are, any of Libby or Rove. We just don't know.

Hey, if there are indictments, and Libby or Rove ARE indicted, I'll be just as happy as anyone here.

But I'm very, very concerned about all of this hoopla right now. Let's just say that the past 5 years have made me rather jaded.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

17. Me too, my friend.

[AspenRose]

32. I agree.

eom

[Joe Chi Minh]

64. I disagree. Only "this road" in the broadest possible sense.

In any kind of technical sense this road could not be more unique, in its composition or its likely pristine probity.

If you sat down to imagine what sort of Special Prosecutor you would choose if you were able, I can't imagine you could imagine a more honest one than Patrick Fitzgerald. Nor do they have a judge over them who can misdirect/overrule them.

If you were able to empanel the Grand Jury, yourself, could you have chosen a panel less likely to be biased against the truth, i.e. in favour of Bush's Brightest and Best? Diebold machines won't be used here.

If you could choose a body of professionals to assist Fitzgerald in his investigations, could you do better than the CIA and the FBI? And since this process seems to be rather more inquisitorial than adversarial, it's difficult to imagine how it could be improved upon.

There is the Downing Street memo, a pretty damning official Italian document emanating from their secret service, I think.

Cheyney and Libby have, I believe, already perjured themselves with contrasting verbal and documentary answers, under questioning.

What do you want? Someone to proclaim, tomorrow, "That's it! They're all guilty! Bush, Cheyney, Libby and all their minions, the whole shebang!" No, this signifies a departure from show trials and return to the rule of law. The law isn't about old wives' tales. It's actually quite technical, so it should run like clockwork, as far as normal human defectibility will allow.

[belle]

75. Okay. I hear you. But why are you "concerned?" Let's break this down:

If we get excited now, we may be disappointed. If we don't get excited now, we may still be disappointed. Either way--the disappointment's not going to kill us. Feelings never do. And, unlike (arguably) during the run-up to the election, there's nothing concrete for us to do here, one way or the other. *We cannot control what actually is going to happen.* At all. So: why the hell *not* get excited?

I know there's a superstitious inclination to believe otherwise, but honestly, our getting happy (or not) has absolutely no bearing on the outcome of this case. It just determines whether we're happy for a while. And dammit, for *right now*, I'm gonna be happy. There's been precious little enough of it these past few years. There'll be heartache soon enough anyway. If not because of this, then something else, sure as God made little green apples. Either way: the work goes on.

But right now, I just want to watch from my lawnchair, because I *really* would be happy to see the fuckers go down.

[Hubert Flottz]

16. Maybe so...

But even people living in Hell, should get a break once in a while.

[maximovich]

18. So What Happens if People Are?

I don't get it? Dissappointment equals what exactly? I think you are overreacting. "We" have suffered plenty of disappointment, yet life goes on.

No excitement here is going to kill anybody. Relax. And for those who get bumbed out, we pick them up and motivate them.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

21. Many people on these boards get VERY dissapointed when things don't

go as they'd hoped. It can be a painful sight.

[maximovich]

37. So We Pick Them Up

Besides... I just lot's of goofing. We have been through a lot.

[freeplessinseattle]

88. get a grip

who ever said it was your job to babysit anyone's feelings, much less whole message board. we're adults here, and I don't think 5 different posts about "I'm worried about y'all" is going to prevent disappointment, the only people who expect the worst so as to avoid pain need therapy. It is a fact of life to handle these feelings, maybe it would be a good experience for people to deal with their own personal tragedies, such as death of loved ones.

[Demonaut]

101. woohoo! thats saying it!.....no need to comisrate..just celebrate!!!

woohoo!!!!!........great! just fucking great....

[belle]

86. Exactly.

[booksenkatz]

20. My concern is this:

The grand jury can indict until Jesus comes back, until the end of time, until Nixon gets re-elected... take your pick. They can issue a hundred skillion brazilian indictments. But anyone who is indicted can be/will be pardoned, just as in Iran-Contra. I lost all my illusions about things like this after Iran-Contra.

So my concern is that true justice will never be served as long as Junior holds the Pardon trump card. Everyone says "he would never do that," well, shit, that's what we said about Bush the Smarter, too.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

23. Yeah, best case scenario - Rove gets nailed. Bush can pardon him

in the blink of an eye.

[William769]

24. As far as I can tell diebold is not involved here.

[NoAmericanTaliban]

26. This may be the real deal .. * spin machine is in overdrive

already. Know as pre-emptive spinning. They are already trying to spin this every which way using the shot gun approach.

perjury - no big deal
Clinton's crimes were worse
cia is behind this
this means nothing, absolutely nothing
at least there is no sex involved
left wing conspiracy
evil liberal media, etc

This spinning indicates to me that they are afraid that some indictments are coming, but which ones is speculation - I'm hoping for the best. This could blow wide open.

by the way - Gore & Kerry won the elections.. but they were stolen
Hail to the Thief

[wryter2000]

27. Kerry won

I don't remember any landslide posts, but then, I can't keep up with everything posted here. I don't think Diebold can screw up Fitzgerald's indictments.

[robbedvoter]

Those posts were based on fact. Then KKkarl came

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3987237.stm

Early exit polls quoted by media seemed to give Mr Kerry the edge, but colleagues said Mr Rove indicated right away that they did not tally with his information.

He used his own data to put Ohio and Florida in the Bush column - bringing cheers from the president and his family when he went into the Roosevelt Room and told them

[NYC Liberal]

59. Remember, Karen Hughes came in at *MIDNIGHT* and TOLD Bush

he was going to LOSE!

[robbedvoter]

117. Kerry was leading among men and women. It was the damn hermaphrodites!

[porphyrian]

28. Kerry did win in a landslide.

We can't help it if the votes weren't counted.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

35. What does that have to do with the reaction of DUers to the outcome?

[porphyrian]

41. What are you, the topic police?

I was merely making an observation.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

42. I was trying to converse.

sorry.

[porphyrian]

47. Oh, I thought you were being snide. My apologies.

I think everyone who's remotely progressive in America today is trying to salvage every last shred of hope that they can. However, with the exception of those who always get their hopes up, I think most of us have been trained in a near-Pavlovian way to hope for the best but not really expect much at this point. How's that?

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

49. That's the way I feel. I mean, deep down inside I'm still optimistic, I

think the public has been very interested in this, but that Pavlovian thing is making me twitch.

[porphyrian]

53. Yeah, we've been smacked around too much.

It's hard to get your hopes up. Like I said on the other thread, though, I'm pretty sure we will get indictments, I'm just not sure what will happen then, or if it will happen fast enough to make a difference.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

31. I don't believe that the OP was posting about Kerry winning or losing

so much as the collective reaction of DU to the outcome - legitimate or not.

[terrya]

44. Agreed

arwalden was talking about the reaction of a lot of people here on DU to the outcome...as well as the "Bush is TOAST" reactions to various events...as understandable as that thinking is.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

45. Right.

:thumbsup:

[BurtWorm]

36. Not all the sources raising my expectations are questionable.

I basically trust Josh Marshall and Laura Rozen, for example, and they're giving me reason to be cautiously optimistic that the Bushists are going to feel at least *some* sting for all the shit they've caused the rest of the world.

[DELUSIONAL]

38. Well . . . .Kerry did win! But the bad guys own the ballot boxes

I believe that the polls keep showing that Kerry won -- because bushie just never did well in the popularity polls post 2004 election.

But then I had a feeling that bushie & his gang would do whatever it took to keep him in the white house.

The motive for the theft of the 2004 election can be seen in what we are learning about these dirty rotten lying bastards -- they needed the Prez pardons to get them out of this current mess or the lying leading up to the Iraq invasion.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

46. Do you think we're getting our hopes up for convictions in this case?

[bos1]

48. the USA is dead,

democracy-wise, future-wise. It doesn't matter if there's another little Watergate over this. The deed is done -- internment camps, torture camps, people in custody years without charges. The constitution is shred. The precedents are set. Nothing short of long jail sentences for top gov't officials of both parties and a massive cleaning house (a revolution, essentially) is going to change this, and who thinks that is going to happen?

[nadinbrzezinski]

66. revolution did you say revolution?

One is coming and those who are attuned will tell you it is coming'

But like all revolutions it will not start iwth a majority in any way shape or form and may just be preceded by a civil war... the US may not survive either

[The Stranger]

94. I want to know more.

How do I learn more?

[sundog]

51. why are you being such a pessimist?

he's going to be impeached soon

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

52. And Rove's blood will flow ankle deep in the streets!

[Lilith Velkor]

104. His fat will be rendered and used for lamps

To light the street because the city can't afford the electric ones.

[terrya]

55. And I'll be crowned Miss America

Right around the same time as that impeachment. :eyes:

[asthmaticeog]

68. Heeeere she coooooomes...

On edit: I'm just kidding, terrya - I don't *really* think he'll be impeached.

[terrya]

77. Bwahahahahaha!! Bert Parks must be furiously....

spinning in his grave over THAT one. :-)

Oh, my...that's the best laugh I've had this week. Thanks, asthmaticeog. :thumbsup:

[asthmaticeog]

78. Oh, Bert's definitely doing SOMETHING furiously.

:freak:

Glad you got a laugh, terrya! :toast:

[arwalden]

80. I'll Win Miss Congeniality.

[terrya]

83. I don't know...the swimsuit competition is coming up...

That's my downfall. :cry:

[Lilith Velkor]

105. You win that one every year!

:grr:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

54. A cynic is not merely one who reads bitter lessons from the past,

... he is one who is prematurely disappointed in the future.


I don't recall who said that but I've been thinking about the quote a lot the past few days.

The way I see it is if we don't have hope in our future what do we have left?

Yes, we don't know what will happen with Fitzgerald and the Plame investigation, but no matter what the outcome, I will still believe there's hope for tomorrow.

[arwalden]

62. I've Been Called Worse.

[belle]

81. Okay. That's your way of being tough. Some of us choose another way,

that's all.

Years of growing up in a family of Chicken Littles makes me a bit more tolerant of the rose-colored glasses set. Ultimately, neither worrying nor hoping is going to change the outcome of anything, of themselves. Particularly in this case, where we have absolutely no control over the outcome, none.

And meanwhile I've learned that while it sucks to have your hopes raised only to be dashed, it really doesn't make me feel better, ultimately, to anticipate the worst. It just gives the illusion of control for a bit: you can't fall if you don't go too high, right?. But it really is an illusion, I've found.

[arwalden]

89. Well...

<< That's your way of being tough. >>

I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by that. :shrug:


<< it really doesn't make me feel better, ultimately, to anticipate the worst >>

I'm not suggesting that people should anticipate the worst. Why must it be one extreme or the other? I think that it's wiser to be realistic... instead of being little Pollyannas or Chicken Littles.

<< It just gives the illusion of control for a bit: you can't fall if you don't go too high, right?. But it really is an illusion, I've found. >>

Well now, you seem to have it all figured out, Belle. :hi:

[belle]

92. When you say "setting ourselves up for disappointment,"

the implication, to me, is that *not* getting one's hopes up helps protect against disappointment. In my experience, it doesn't work that way. Your mileage may vary.

also, as others have pointed out: getting disappointed, hell, getting furious and grief-stricken, as we were (rightfully) after the election, won't kill us. It sucks, we console each other, (eventually) we pick up and get on with it.

meanwhile, I like feeling happy-excited; it makes for a nice change.

[arwalden]

95. Clearly We're Having A Communication Problem...

... and I'm just not using the right words to get my message across.

I have no problems with anyone having hopeful anticipation of what the outcome might be. But I also I think that it's important to maintain some sense of being *realistic* about the whole thing.

<< also, as others have pointed out: getting disappointed, hell, getting furious and grief-stricken, as we were (rightfully) after the election, won't kill us. It sucks, we console each other, (eventually) we pick up and get on with it. >>

What's the point of going through all that? Is the elation that's achieved from living in an unrealistic fantasy world worth the disappointment?

<< I like feeling happy-excited; it makes for a nice change. >>

I too am enjoying the pre-game show... the night-before-Christmas... the wondering what the presents will be.

[Joe Chi Minh]

97. It is you and the other naysayers who are being unrealistic.

It's your privilege, but when you accuse others of it, a rebuttal is called for. I've explained why you are being unrealistic in my earlier post.

None of you have put forward a single reason for pessimism in this matter, except your conviction that they will eventually be pardoned by Junior. As for the rest it's "Oooh..... they always do us in the end.... We get our hopes up, and guess what, they do us down again. Look at the elections. Boo hoo". Different ball-game and you know it.

It's just another version of.. "Oooh that Rove! He's so brilliant and masterly! What chance do we have of ever getting justice.... !He's just going to twist it so we lose again!"

Are you men or mice! And don't say pass the cheese!

You don't know what kerfuffle this lot's going to bring about, so what makes you think Junior's going to be in a position to pardon them! Some shrewd characaters on this board have said otherwise.

[arwalden]

109. What? So People Who Are Being Realistic Are Actually Unrealistic?

"Naysayers"? -- Oh brother! :eyes:

I'm not at all sure what you're driving at in that rant. I don't know why you would think that "realistic" is a synonym for "pessimistic".

<< Different ball-game and you know it. >>

:silly: Huh? I don't have a clue what you're babbling on about.


<< Are you men or mice! And don't say pass the cheese! >>

:shrug: Again... what?

<< You don't know what kerfuffle this lot's going to bring about, so what makes you think Junior's going to be in a position to pardon them! >>

I don't recall ever having made such a suggestion. Did you mean to have this argument with someone else?

<< Some shrewd characaters on this board have said otherwise. >>

Yeah... that's probably the "characaters" you need to be talking to.

In the meantime, I choose not to live in a fantasy world.

[Joe Chi Minh]

115. Thus speaks one of DU's great motivators.

We have a regular team of them.

You'd make a great football manager. "Look guys, don't go getting your hopes up for crying out loud. OK, so you've won the last two games against fair teams, but these guys are in the top three, and how many times have we been disppointed? Thinking positive never did anyone any good. Trust me on this. You're also-rans and always will be - just don't think you'll ever be anything else or your day-job is going to be just one long sequence of bitter disappointments.

You think I'm being pessimistic. I'm not. I'm just being realistic. Have you got that? Say after me: R E A L I S T I C.

OK, boys! Go out there and giv'em hell!"

Pass....

[arwalden]

119. I Think I Should Probably Let You Know...

... that ad hominem personal attacks don't really do much to advance whatever point you're trying to make. (Even the gentle back-handed swipes like that one.)

<< You'd make a great football manager. >>

I would? -- I fail to see how your personal opinion of me--or your opinion of what I'm best suited for--is relevant to this topic.

By the way... the metaphor of the football manager/coach doesn't really work in this instance.

For example: please explain to me exactly HOW it is that YOUR being "motivated" and "optimistic" actually helps anything with regard to the CIA leak investigation and the results?

How will "thinking positive" influence the outcome?

How does YOUR personal optimism (and the optimism of the other DU "players") have any effect on whether or not Fitzgerald decides to indict... or how many indictments are handed out?

This RAH-RAH-GO-TEAM we're gonna WIN-WIN-WIN and THIS-IS-THE-END-OF-THE-BFEE attitude makes absolutely NO sense to me.

Such fantasy-world thinking and wishing makes DU look a bit Pollyannaish and silly.

[Joe Chi Minh]

123. What do you consider you are contributing to DU

sites, which many, if not most see as inspirational and motivational, and are very happy to see it that way? You consider your contribution injects a little realism to the giddy excitement of DUers. I consider that the height of presumption.

However time will tell. You may be right and everyone will be disappointed. Not that we enthusiasts desire or need your "correction" in the matter of our elation - however misconceived you view it to be. And personally, I consider that, whatever your reasons, you have been going a long way out of your way to avoid viewing the many substantively positive aspects of this whole process, in favour of a blanket pessimism, which can be eptitomised as a lament to the effect that, "Well, they're so clever and powerful, they've always got away with everything in the past, and when they can't win by fair means they'll do so by foul and we'll never be able to hold them accountable (and if we do, Bush'll pardon them), take back the government, etc.

Why not raise the spirits of the freepers with such posts on their sites. They could really use them. They know, as do their idols, that they're in very deep shite - even if you don't.

There are a lot of neocon operatives on here, and one of their more notable m.o's is to acknowledge something positive, and then conclude, "However, alas... and peddle some negative rubbish designed to mislead and quell the positives, invariably more significant, which are present.

With your evident wish to quench the excitement of these judicial developments, in my view, you presumably unwittingly place yourself too close to their camp for comfort. And why shouldn't I and others feel that way?

PS: I think we'd all prefer to hear Polyanna than Tokyo Rose. Wouldn't you. Or is there some slinky realistic propagandist?

[arwalden]

128. Here's Your Reply, KCabotDullesMarxIII

<< "What do you consider you are contributing to DU" Posted by KCabotDullesMarxIII >>

Isn't my mere presence enough? What more do you want? :eyes:

<< sites, which many, if not most see as inspirational and motivational, and are very happy to see it that way? >>

If you see DU as a source of inspiration, that's fine.

<< You consider your contribution injects a little realism to the giddy excitement of DUers. >>

I think you need to re-read the original post. You'll see that it was a personal observation and a question.

<< I consider that the height of presumption. >>

Oh dear! The height of presumption? I don't have a clue what that's supposed to mean.

<< However time will tell. You may be right and everyone will be disappointed. >>

Based on what has come before and based on the fantasy world that many appear to exist in, there's little doubt that this will happen. The unrealistic and silly expectations of many folks guarantees that no matter how positive the outcome, they will surely be disappointed.

<< Not that we enthusiasts desire or need your "correction" in the matter of our elation - however misconceived you view it to be. >>

I'm having difficulty in figuring out what you're trying to say. Is English your first language?

<< And personally, I consider that, whatever your reasons, you have been going a long way out of your way to avoid viewing the many substantively positive aspects of this whole process, in favour of a blanket pessimism, which can be eptitomised as a lament to the effect that, "Well, they're so clever and powerful, they've always got away with everything in the past, and when they can't win by fair means they'll do so by foul and we'll never be able to hold them accountable (and if we do, Bush'll pardon them), take back the government, etc. >>

Blanket pessimism? What ARE you talking about? Are you actually angry or frustrated with someone else and just taking it out on me because I'm convenient?

I honestly do not understand your hostility.


<< Why not raise the spirits of the freepers with such posts on their sites. They could really use them. They know, as do their idols, that they're in very deep shite - even if you don't. >>

What are you saying? Are you calling me a Freeper? Are you telling me that I'm unwelcome here? -- Whatever it is you're trying to say, it's dangerously close to being a personal attack on the messenger.

<< There are a lot of neocon operatives on here, and one of their more notable m.o's is to acknowledge something positive, and then conclude, "However, alas... and peddle some negative rubbish designed to mislead and quell the positives, invariably more significant, which are present. >>

Oh... I see, so you ARE calling me a Freeper (neocon). Isn't that lovely? Nice... real nice.

<< With your evident wish to quench the excitement of these judicial developments, in my view, you presumably unwittingly place yourself too close to their camp for comfort. And why shouldn't I and others feel that way? >>

So just to make CERTAIN you aren't misunderstood, the personal attack is reworded and clarified. I get it. You think I'm a freeper. Nice.

<< PS: I think we'd all prefer to hear Polyanna than Tokyo Rose. Wouldn't you. Or is there some slinky realistic propagandist? >>

And the personal attacks continue still. Sweet.

[Joe Chi Minh]

132. Oooh, you'v got a wicked tongue. Pity about the grey cells...!

"What are you saying? Are you calling me a Freeper? Are you telling me that I'm unwelcome here? -- Whatever it is you're trying to say, it's dangerously close to being a personal attack on the messenger".

Oooh er! You don't think it nasty of me do you? Aren't you going to report me then?

You must be really thrilled about Libby's indictment! And, hey, guess what! It looks like it's just the start, dumbo...

I don't think an analytical mind is something that can really be acquired, so you really seemed doomed to continue getting everything wrong till you meet your Maker, and beyond.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

87. I wasn't calling you a cynic

I don't know you well enough for that. I didn't mean to it be insulting and hope you don't take it that way.

To be fair, your post wasn't the first one to make me think of this quote. I just finally decided to mention it to try and get it out of my head.

I think the people who believe that this will be the downfall of the bush* admin are going to feel that way if they post their feelings here or not. You mentioning one of the defeats we've had to endure in the past won't change their minds.

Knowing what we know here on DU, I understand how hard it is not to expect indictments in this case. I also know that doesn't mean they are going to happen. However, I choose to hope that they will.

[Zen Democrat]

57. Unfortunately, those posts were a year early.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

58. Oh, Allen...

Have a cookie. :P

[goodboy]

60. The beauty of this whole thing is that the Dem's can't even fuck this up.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

61. Heard you on Randi the other night!

You go!

[goodboy]

102. Hey, Chavez...Thank you! Although, I owe my passion and inspiration to DU

[mzmolly]

63. The difference is that DU was the only source for the "Kerry - Landslide"

mentality. The Bush is toast hoopla, today, seems to be a bit more widespread.

[Joe Chi Minh]

118. You mean - apart from the GAO hooplah?

[mzmolly]

120. GAO aside, I think the election was quite close. OHIO was key of course

but it was not a landslide for anyone.

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. So the lesson of the day is to do nothing and hope for nothing

better?

Got it, messzage received

(by the way Keery did win, and so did Gore... once you get over that uggly fact you realize that they are willing to go to ends unprecedented in US history to keep power)

[terrya]

67. What can "we" do at this point about the indictments?

The OP asked a reasonable question. There is the very distinct possibility that no indictments will be issued. Can you state for absolute, positive, 100% certainity that there WILL be indictments?

Again, the OP asked a realistic question. We HAVR been down this road before.

[swag]

69. Send good thoughts and prayers, everybody!

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. That is not the point and yuo bloody know it

now if there are no indictments, and I have prepared myself for that, the Republic is dead, so what are yuo willing to do and how far are you willing to go? In other words what are you willing to sacrifice?

[arwalden]

122. Exactly What "Sacrifice" Is Being Made?

How is someone (or a group of people) being unrealistically optimistic equal to making a "sacrifice"? :shrug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

126. Ok I will be blunt

if there are no indictments we have crosssed the rubicon, are you willing to die for a now dead republic?

[arwalden]

129. Nadine... I Do Not Understand What You're Talking About.

Why do I have to die for anything? And what on earth does that have to do with the fact that many people around here are living in some fantasy world when it comes to what Fitzgerald may do, and what the actual impact may be.

I just don't follow your train of thought. What are you getting at?

[belle]

84. Nope. Can't state a damn thing for absolute positive 100% certainty.

Sucks, doesn't it? That's just life. Doesn't mean we can't get giddy with hope every so often.

[arwalden]

121. Lesson? Huh? -- No Lesson. -- Just Questions And Observations...

...based on what has gone on before and based on the fantasy-world expectations that many people have. It would appear that much of the misery and disappointment that folks around here experience is self-inflicted.

<< "So the lesson of the day is to do nothing and hope for nothing" >>

See if you can spot the difference between these two sentences:

"I can't wait for these indictments to come out. I hope that it includes Rove, Libby, and Cheney!"

or...

"OMG OMG OMG! This is IT!! This is the END of the BFEE! THE BIG ONE IS HERE! They're going DOWN! I can't wait for that PERP WALK in HANDCUFFS!! This is TREASON... we can EXECUTE THEM for treason! BUSH IS TOAST! Bush is going to be INDICTED TOO! The GOP is DEAD! We're gonna IMPEACH TOMORROW!! BUSH GOES TO JAIL!! It's gonna happen!!"

<< by the way Keery did win, >>

Denial much? Yes, yes... we're all disappointed that "Keery" didn't win. But... I'm afraid I prefer to rely on facts. My imagination isn't as creative as many others.

[nadinbrzezinski]

127. Kerry won

You are the one in denial or rather not know the story really, for the MSM refuses to cover the issues with ESS, Sequoia et al

When historians look back I am almost betting, they will call this the coup of 2000 and the coup of 2004

14 points of fascism, go read them

[arwalden]

131. Well... I Think That Pretty Much Explains Everything.

If there were any doubts, that last post put everything in perspective. -- Thanks! :thumbsup:

[deadparrot]

70. I have no reason to believe what I hear coming from the media,

because on the subject of the grand jury proceedings, no one knows anything.

However, I will say this:
I tried to keep my optimism up with the "Kerry in a landslide" threads, but I rarely (if ever) participated in one, because I had this underlying feeling of dread. Deep down, I didn't think it would happen.

This time around, I don't feel anything. I'm not optimistic, nor am I pessimistic. I really don't feel anything other than anxiety. I'm always one to be cautious of these wildly emotional speculation threads because I know that if I get emotionally involved, it will only hurt that much more if things don't go my way.

The fact that I don't have that feeling of dread in the pit of my stomach is encouraging to me, because usually if I have a bad feeling about something, it pervades every other emotion I have.

[conflictgirl]

73. That's sort of how I feel about it too.

I remember the things after the election, too, where people here thought for sure something would happen (court challenges and that sort of thing). Honestly I think there are a lot of people here who have endless hope that this administration will get their come-uppance, and hope is good but I think when it comes to this administration hope is misplaced.

[DS1]

74. Wouldn't surprise me

We're expecting a nuclear assault, we might just get a pop-gun

[Mr_Spock]

76. I pointed this out Tuesday

in this post... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5168970&mesg_id=5169420

Nobody want's to hear it :eyes:

[TexasThoughtCriminal]

79. I was thinking the very same thing.

I hope we're wrong.

[progressoid]

82. Yup. That category 5 hurricane could turn out to be sprinkles.

[freeplessinseattle]

85. oh geez louise

as if hardening ourselves would prevent disappointment. my god, how many of these types of posts do we need a day? why do so many people feel so "concerned" about everyone's ability to handle disappointment.

I find these posts to be insulting and condescending, treating us like children, as if the very idea that nothing at all might happen hadn't occured to us, and we'll all experince nervous breakdowns flooding the health care system.

give me a break, I think we're a little more experienced in dealing with our feelings than too many posters think.

[belle]

90. Agreed. I think it's mainly misplaced self-protection, though.

[Blue_Roses]

98. I remember all those posts and thought

that it was way ahead of ourselves. I NEVER thought Kerry would win in a landslide, 'cause I knew what this cabal was capable of doing. I DO however, think Kerry got more votes than he was given credit for and I DON'T think Bush one "legally," but proving it ...well, that's another story as we all know.:eyes:

I don't like hearing the "Fitzmus" remarks 'cause this guy is so professional he doesn't care which side "wins." I think he deserves much more respect for the job he's doing. It makes me nervous when I hear those comments. It sounds cocky and too overly confident.

While I think our odds of seeing justice with this are much much better than the election, I still am holding my breath until Fitzgerald gives the final word.

[Bouncy Ball]

99. I'm not sure I care anymore.

Not that I don't CARE exactly, bad wording.

Just that I don't hinge things on stuff like this. If it happens, HOO-RAH. If it doesn't, well, whatever. Things are undeniably bad for this administration no matter which way it goes.

[garybeck]

100. kerry DID win in a landslide

blackwell + diebold

[Lilith Velkor]

103. It's what Iran-Contra woulda looked like on the 'net

Remember how that worked out?

Ah well, the nice thing about being a pessimist is that you're either pleasantly surprised, or you're right.

[helderheid]

106. Bush was toast. It was Kerry in a landslide.

I'm Diebold, and I approve this message.

[skipos]

107. How could anyone think Kerry would win in a "landslide"?

I followed many, many polls leading up to the election, and no one I saw was predicting a "landslide" for Kerry. Some where predicting a narrow popular victory, although most were predicting a narrow popular victory for Bush. Other than Newsweek, none of these polls were painfully off from the final result.

Poll Bush Kerry
Marist 49% 50%
Harris 49% 48%
FOX News 46% 48%
Reuters/ 48% 47%
USA TODA 49% 49%
NBC/WSJ 48% 47%
ABC/WPO 49% 48%
CBS/NYT 49% 46%
Pew 51% 48%
Newsweek 50% 44%

[slybacon9]

108. Yeah, so what, we should all just give up and stop the fight?

why are you here then?

Sure i think my heart can't take much more, but the truth is that it CAN. And i choose to PARTICIPATE.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

111. Fitz ain't yer average voter.

[The Backlash Cometh]

112. Bush was toast, and Kerry did win by a landslide.

The GAO just came up with a report that maybe even the mainstream media can't ignore.

[IndyOp]

113. Kerry did win by a landslide !!

Damn straight.

Stolen Election Confirmation (GAO Report)

:kick:

[Joe Chi Minh]

130. How could skipos and the others have got it so wrong!!!

[wiggs]

124. Which is why I posted this elsewhere....

Sure, indictments are a big story: We may get none, two, twelve...we may get only perjury and conspiracy indictments....we may not get top neocon dogs...we may get unindicted co-conspirators...we may get plea bargained sentences....we may get indictments then pardons......anything could happen.

Which is why I wish DLC, DNC, dem leaders, WHOEVER would be putting out storylines so that whatever happens the main point is kept alive: this administration is ruthless, dishonest, warmongering, in bed with corporations, corrupt.

I wish some dem leaders would say it that regardless of what Fitzgerald does, it is clear this administration is dysfunctional and dangerous. That DSM, Sibel, Plame, Kwiatdowski, Wilkerson, and many others tell us that our government is not acting in our nations best interests. That the Fitzgerald investigation is only one avenue to exposing and punishing corruption. And that it may be difficult, given the balance of power, to get to the bottom of what has happened to our country. THAT'S THE STORY HERE!

[wiggs]

125. Remember DSM? Sibel? Bush drinking? Abu Ghraib?

Medicare lies? 8.8 billion missing in Iraq? Etc?