A suggestion for Admins and Mods: Red and Yellow Cards

[Taxloss]

This thread about the "circular firing squad" got me thinking:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5189293

It came up after another flare-up in the periodic DU Wars of Religion, with its obligatory flamewars and cries of persecution from both sides.

And it's not just religion and Democratic candidates. As we all know pretty much anything can start a flamewar, like PETA or tattoos or use of the word "refugee".

Ultimately, this lead to the locking of some threads and sometimes to the deletion of posts. And that can lead to "why was my thread locked?" pleas and ometimes tension with the mods.

OK, here comes the point of this ramble. DU would be tedious is we all agreed with each other, and a great many of us are quite ideologically passionate - as well we should be in a time of Big Politics, where the stakes are high indeed. This makes flamewars inevitable. While we should all strive to play as nice as possible, we're human.

Now, in a conversation related to a thread that got locked in the UK country forum, moderator SouthlandShari posted this smiley:



( http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=191&topic_id=11879&mesg_id=11890 )

That's a red card, held up by the referee in soccer matches when a player is to be sent off after a serious foul or something.

Red cards are preceded by yellow cards - warnings for less serious offences. If you get two yellow cards, you automatically get a red card and get sent off.

( http://news.bbc.co.uk/sportacademy/hi/sa/football/rules/newsid_3635000/3635507.stm )

My suggestion is this: "yellow cards" for threads and subthreads. If they begin to make the transition from warm debate to gasoline-assisted barbecue, a mod could pop up with a yellow card and a friendly warning. If the warning is ignored, we all know what happens.

Now, I feel this help the mods actually moderate rather than coming down like a bombshell out of the blue. I appreciate there are some obvious problems - it might inflame the situation rather than ease it, and I can see that it might slightly increase the mod workload.

All the same, I thought I'd put the idea out there and watch it sink like a stone see what everyone thinks, especially mods, admins and ex-mods. If we discuss it, a better idea might emerge.

[sinkingfeeling]

1. I like it. Cute little whistle blower! I also enjoy flamewars on occasion.

[Dogmudgeon]

2. This sounds like a good idea

I know that strong moderation keeps the conversation up, but the process of removing posts is often just patronizing, even though that's not the intent of the moderator(s) or admin. A "card" or similar warning system could come in handy.

It might be helpful to try this on just one of the fora first, or maybe a special forum created for the purpose of conducting strong, but well-controlled, arguments.

Anyway, Admin will have to think it over, since it will be they who do the coding.

--p!

[sui generis]

3. it's more fun without warnings

never knowing when (or where) a sizzling bolt of moderator lightning will fry your short hairs.

Keeps us all on our toes, and fewer posters get tea bagged. ;)

There is something to getting a yellow card that is equivalent to a public scolding that would likely have the opposite effect.

[Taxloss]

5. That's a very fair point.

There are certainly ways in which this might make things worse. I just thought the idea should get an airing at least to "stress-test" it - I'm sure others can come up with all sorts of problems I didn't think of.

[sam sarrha]

7. Unintentional clone

[sam sarrha]

8. i respectfully disagree....

you sound too much like my Xwife :hide: :yoiks:

[sui generis]

18. I've been deleted about a thousand two hundred and twenty nine

and a half times.

I was referring to myself, not other deletees. :P

I wonder :think: does getting deleted remove numbers from your post count?

:shrug:

But lately, alas, I have been B-O-R-I-N-G, strutting around the joint, polishing my halo, keeping my wings smelling april fresh and strumming my harp.

(STAGE WHISPERS: except when I'm in the gunjeon, but that's just a troll shootin' gallery) Woopsie! is that lightning I hear sizzling through the ether towards me?

I'll never know.

[Taxloss]

19. "does getting deleted remove numbers from your post count?"

No. Some people would be in minus numbers by now ...

[Buns_of_Fire]

4. Perhaps it could be tied in with the "alert" button

You know, 1-5 "alerts" get you (or the thread) a yellow flag, 6-10 gets you a pink flag, 11-15 gets the red, over 15 and the thread (or post) is outta there. Or use the Homeland inSecurity colors (which would make them good for SOMETHING!).

(I love making more work for other people! :evilgrin: )

[Taxloss]

6. Well, some threads and subthreads are obviously "instant delete"

material (you can go straight to a red card in soccer) and I fear that your system might become something of a game for disruptors and the like - see how high you can get the alert-o-meter to go without getting deleted, that sort of tomfoolery.

[asthmaticeog]

14. If it were pegged to alerts like that,

it wouldn't be very hard for organized alert attacks to stifle discussion of a contentious topic. Our moderation should be left to the moderators and admins, who can discuss things among themselves, not given over to an easily manipulated bot or script.

[LoZoccolo]

9. This whole thread is going to get the red card!

A constructive suggestion, but Ask The Administrators-style threads are verboten since the closing of Ask The Administrators due to people using it for demonstrations or something.

[Taxloss]

10. That isn't the intention here.

I'm not protesting anything. If 'tis locked, then so be it.

(Awaits lightning bolt x( )

[sui generis]

25. I believe we are being watched by benevolent powerful beings

(who are laughing their asses off at us)

however should the thread turn into a discussion of the merits of one fried chicken recipe over another or whether s-e-x threads should be allowed, we will all be having Tombstone pizza for dinner, no mauve, pink, or chartreuse flags for us.

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. While the idea sounds good in theory

I'm not sure about the metaphor's use in practice. I post on another political forum, which is quite international. They have a system of a yellow card as a 'suspended sentence' for a moderate infraction of rules, and a red card for a ban because of either a serious offence, or repeating an offence while under a yellow card.

Most of the members understand it; but Americans (especially new members) have to have it explained to them. So while it's excellent for the UK forum, I wonder if it's going to confuse those who don't know football (you know which one is the real one ...).

Maybe a traffic light metaphor instead? Amber for slow down and watch out, red for 'this stops now'?

[Taxloss]

13. Traffic lights, flags, anything really.

The concept is the same.

[Arkana]

12. Dress Grovelbot up in a ref's shirt

and have him run out, throw a flag, and say something like:

"Personal insult, on (insert name here). Post deletion, and rebuke from moderators."

[AspenRose]

15. I like it

And I like the smiley with the whistle too.

[Perky]

16. Nice Idea but from some one who is a protagonist is the religion wars

I would want to be sure that the moderators are "fair and balanced" Hee hee sorry could not resist the use of the term.

I don't know how you do that objectively.

ANd the alert tie in I think is a bad thing because it leads to alert wares on top of religion wars and it would surely lead to Mutually Assured Destruction.

I like the idea of a penalty box I just don't know how you play referee.

[Taxloss]

17. Well, objectivity, that's the eternal question.

What I would say is that a yellow card/flag/traffic light system might give the modding process some more transparency, which could help reassure about objectivity - people could tell when and what was considered to be close to the line.

I agree about the alert tie-in.

[sui generis]

20. sometimes mutually assured destruction is the only way

to destroy a rat bastard on DU, although I have been working the alert button these days more often than biting someone's head off and shitting down the stump. I'm getting mellow (on top of senile) in my old age. In a few decades, I'll also be withered, like an old pieced of fruit. Er, what were we talking about?

oh yeah.

I think they need two more buttons:

1. The Emily Latilla "Nevermind" button

2. The Highlander "There Can Only Be ONE" button

[Perky]

delete

[Perky]

22. What about a Hall of Shame?

Give users the ability to repost offensive posts to anothe board and let the community vote (if it wishes on the offender of the week. The offended gets "benched for a week"


Getting away from the site is probably a healthy thing anyway.

[sui generis]

23. that would just perpetuate the flame wars

some DU playa's are really REALLY good at flying just right under the last angstrom of the radar.

Anyway, from what I gather the mods/admins can counsel someone for a brief time out if they would rather not tombstone them.

Plus, I sure hope the "community" on DU has better things to do than act like a judgemental mob. Believe me, if some people remembered some of the things I said for longer than a day, I'd never show my feathery little avatar here again.

:evilgrin:

[Perky]

24. Well actually

I was thinking about a voting only function no posting for precisely that reason.


I would also want to limit the number of post you could send to the Hall in a week to say five.

[Zhade]

27. Oh, so those who disagree with you are antagonists?

Bullshit.

[sui generis]

28. ha - that is funny

Just Call Me

Auntie Agonist - Auntie Pinko's slightly batty younger sister, and lady of the evening.

}(

[Taxloss]

29. Now now.

This isn't the place to revive old arguments. The mod objectivity thing will alway cause controversy whatever the mods do.

[Zhade]

35. It's not an old argument at all.

I am reacting to the fact that Perky is painting him/herself as a protagonist struggling against the "persecution of Christians" here (which isn't happening).

That is patent bullshit - it paints those who disagree as antagonists, villains of the piece. I repudiate Perky's self-selected "heroism", which is really just a way to puff up the ego while denigrating those that disagree.

[SoCalDem]

30. In case you do not know this

People who have "sharp edge", often get a PM and an opportunity to ponder.. and most of the time, even people who get "bounced" can be reinstated by writing an email to the admin.. Our own Andy was one of the latter when he was still God, Bush & Cheney..He was even a MOD after his return..

Everyone has their hot button issues and coupled with a bad day, can step over the line..

It's all best handled via PM and in contact with the admin..not in public..

Just like you hated it when your Mom bawled you out in front of your friends..same goes here or anywhere) :hug::hi:

The redcard guy is a cutie though

[Zhade]

36. I wish I knew what your post had to do with my post.

NT!

[SoCalDem]

37. Oops.. I thought I was replying to the OP.. oopsie daisy

:hi:

[Zhade]

38. Hehe, no worries.

:hi: yourself.

[Cults4Bush]

21. I like it, because I personally could use it.

It'd be nice to know when and were I am actually pushing the boundaries of the rules and not just someones comfort zone.

[sui generis]

26. Well, what's to keep people from agreeing to do this themselves?

(I mean, everything up to thread and sub-thread deletes)

Skinner said he's sitting back a bit and watching what evolves - maybe self-policing is a Darwinian result.

[Taxloss]

31. A kick for the evening crowd.

Sorry, I don't usually kick my own threads.

[Taxloss]

32. Well, another kick I suppose.

I'd really like a mod or an admin to tell me why this is a bad idea. If it is a bad idea.

[Liberal In Texas]

33. I think it's basically a sound idea, Taxloss.

However I'm wondering if the mods actually would have enough time to monitor threads to provide this level of "warning". From what I've been able to gather over my time here, the mods have a hard time keeping up with what they must do now due to the sheer volume.

[Taxloss]

34. Well, obviously mods can't read every thread.

But I imagine that contentious threads, if they don't spot them themselves, are most often brought to their attention by the "alert" function. So a yellow flag in response to that ... I can see a small increase in workload, but also it would make it easy for mods to keep track of "smouldering" threads.