WTF: FEMA wont go into gated communities?

[tgnyc]

Did I just hear that right? On CNN they just reported on a senior citizen community in Florida that has gotten NOTHING from FEMA in the wake of Wilma because the organization's rules don't allow it to enter gated communities.

I think the media is sleeping a bit on the post-Wilma situation because of the chaos breaking out in Washington, but it sounds like the Same hell as New Orleans, just without the flooding.

[ret5hd]

1. no sympathy for the gated community set from me...

they've got the money to fend for themselves.

[Cobalt Violet]

2. Ya, can't you get shot in FL for doing that now?

:shrug:

[MadHound]

3. Umm, perhaps you should re-read a little more carefully

The OP said a "senior citizen gated community" These are your regular gated communities friend, these are large scale retirement communities for senior citizens, most of whom do not have much money. If it is anything like the one we have in my town, the senior citizens get half of a small duplex, one bedroom/one bath, postage stamp sized yard, plus a few amenities such as a common dining hall and taxi service. They're alright places, but none of these people have any real money.

[ret5hd]

7. yeah, i saw that...

The OP purposely wrote an inflammatory/misleading subject line to get the response he/she wanted...and i obliged.

jmho...yours may vary.

[ender]

4. money doesnt mean anything.

not when theres no electric, no gas, no water.

[ret5hd]

8. It does when you are deciding on whether to leave town...

or to 'ride it out'.

[Der Blaue Engel]

5. I'm betting it doesn't take a helluva lot of money

To live in a gated senior community in Florida.

[Fla Dem]

6. No that's not necessarily true. Just because a community is gated

does not mean it has well-to-do residents. Many of these communities are for senior citizens, some are even mobile home communities. They don't necessarily have someone manning a gate. Some just simply have an electronic gate controlled by a switch like an electronic garage door opener. They do that for security more than anything.

I cannot imagine a communities' regulations will not let in gov't services. Surely not police, fire and EMT's. FEMA fits the same bill.

[SoCalDem]

18. Mobile homeparks out here are almost ALL gated

There are gates..and then there are GATES...

Older people like gated communities because of the added security and the stopping of 'shortcut' drivers using their communities as a racetrack around traffic.. Not all gated communities are "chi-chi"..

[progressivebydesign]

10. I'm pretty sick of the attacks on gated communities.

Jealousy is an ugly, ugly, thing. You don't know who lives in a gated community or why or how much money they have. The DU set that attacks gated communities is yet another reason why I think that liberals are just as bigoted and petty as the rightwingers.

I live in a gated community.. GASP! And I've been on DU since 2001, and I"m a liberal. SHOCKING!! The house that worked for us in in here. AND.. we're not rich, our neighbors are not rich. But let me tell ya, it's really nice for the parents with small kids to let them ride their bikes safely on our little streets. It's nice to be able to put lovely things on our porches and gardens without their being stolen or vandalized. It's nice to know your neighors and feel a sense of community. There are folks that live in gated communities because they are paranoid, every neighborhood has those. The majority of folks here live here because they love the sense of community that it brings. With suburban sprawl and life going crazy lately, it's an attempt to create a peaceful place to raise your kids. Oh.. and I know there will be those people who are thinking that this is a "white" thing. Wrong again. We are a lovely mix of races here in our gated community. We care about each other and look out for each other.

I think the financial bigotry on DU needs to end. Not every poor person is a saint, not every rich person is evil. Not everyone living in a 600 square foot house is Ghandi and not everyone in a gated community is Rupert Murdoch.

[Coventina]

12. Why should my taxes support your infrastructure if I'm not allowed on your

street?

[Momgonepostal]

16. Not sure what infrastructure you mean

our HOA dues pay for the paving of our streets, tree trimming, sidewalk maintenence, security, landscaping. Yes, we do use city police and fire, eletrical and phone service, but we pay taxes for those things, too.

Why do you even want to go on my street? Yours is probably nicer.

[Coventina]

21. My point is, that if a "gated community" walls itself off from the rest of

the world, then it should be entirely self-sufficient, or pay its own way entirely.

Gated communities are ANTI-community. They wall people off from each other. They say, "You are not good enough to come in here." "Don't bother us with your problems."

[Momgonepostal]

30. Do fences in single family home neighborhoods...

say the same thing, IYO?

[Coventina]

31. No, my primary objection is to gated STREETS

A fence around someone's home is no big deal, unless they make it 8ft high and have razor wire around the top or something like that.

My objection is about entire "communities", not single properties.
Streets should never be closed to the public, except for isolated events (i.e. parades & such).

"Gated community" is an oxymoron. It is ANTI-community.

[Momgonepostal]

38. It's anti-outside community

I guess I really don't care if some people choose to gate or fence off their streets. And I don't really see how gates are any more anti-community than a good fence. Both are designed for privacy and to keep out those who don't belong.

I guess we all have our issues.

[progressivebydesign]

48. Gated communities are PRO-community.

In areas where sprawl and strip malls and overcrowding have rendered most of us anonymous where we live, gated communties and the new housing clusters that are being built to encourage interaction, are pro-community. People don't live in these places generally to get away from people.. but rather to be closer to people. If I hated the outside world, I'd buy a house with land, a couple of guard dogs and a BIG 10 foot electrified fence. A gated community, like ours, that has clearly open access to pedestrians, and fences only at the roads are a way to make the streets safe for kids to ride their bikes, for neighbors to gather on the street and talk, sit on our front porches and say hi as neighbors walk by, and really get to know each other. The way neighborhoods in the traditional sense have been destroyed by out of town developments and strip malls, the gated communities or clustered housing is a way to recreate that... it's Mayberry, but not Pleasantville.

I guess some people let gated communities upset their self esteem because of issues of feeling left out, and I'm sorry. If you actually lived in one, you'd understand that it's all about community. There are definitely people who move into those with that us vs. them mentality, but honestly.. they don't last in the community, they move along when they realize people moved there to be close as neighbors, not to exclude everyone else. That's why the communities appeal to so many families with young kids... and families where one person travels a lot.. it's a sense of security and friendliness knowing you can count on your neighbors. Something that is sorely lacking in so many suburban areas now.

[ultraist]

55. Pro community? Oh, please, they promote segregation

Economic and racial segregation.

http://www.chisdes.com/gated.html

Edward J. Blakeley and Mary Gail Snyder have written a book entitled Fortress America: Gated Communities in the United States which examines the social and economic factors which prompt people to move into gated communities and how the realities differ from the myths once they do. They have statistics which show that despite the perception, crime really does not go down with the inclusion of a gate. In fact, sometimes gates hinder these problems, such as when emergency vehicles are slowed down. I remember a day about nine months ago when the fire alarm went off in my building and we all had to evacuate. Less than five minutes later, I could see across the lake, the firetruck arrived at the gate, but they could not get in. We watched them struggle for several minutes before someone decided to run over there and let them in. Fortunately, in this case, the fire turned out to be a false alarm and no one was in danger, but we might not be so lucky next time.

However, the really disturbing aspect of gated communities is the sense of elitism which they create. Blakeley and Snyder point out that gates often symbolize prestige which "creates(s) and protect(s) a secure place on the social ladder." Not merely to keep out crime, gates keep out all "undesirables," which often means people of lower social economic classes and races. Of course, racial segregation is illegal in this country, but Blakeley, who is African-American, encountered much racial discrimination during his research, as well as statistics which show non-whites make up only a tiny portion of gated community residents.

Gates tend to create an us-vs.-them mentality for many residents and isolate them from the larger communities. Crime tends to be seen as a highly localized problem which is solved too simply by putting up a gate around the neighborhood. But Evan McKenzie, author of Privatopia: Homeowner Associations and the Rise of Residential Private Government, points out that people lose sight of the larger picture. You don't solve crime by putting up a gate -- you just push it elsewhere. He believes we need to look at the root problems of crime -- poverty and violence -- and address those issues.

When we feel the need to put barriers between ourselves and our neighbors, something is wrong with the American Dream. Robert Frost may have touched on the beginnings of this problem in his famous 1914 poem "Mending Wall," but it is only in recent years that the trend is growing so rapidly. As Earl M. Starnes, Professor Emeritus at the University of Florida, puts it, "Balkanization of our cities is a manifestation of fear, selfishness, and exclusion."

[Coventina]

56. How is it "pro-community" to fence yourself in?

If there are problems in a city, you are saying the best solution is for those who have the financial ability to wall themselves off?

Sounds more like feudalism to me.

[progressivebydesign]

40. YOU are saying to yourself that you're not good enough.

I simply said that parents like the safety of having gated streets so their kids can play without getting run over... and it's really nice to have pumpkins on our porch without having them smashed in the middle of the night. I think some comments about gated communities say more about the person outside than those inside. I am not responsible for your low opinion of yourself.. no one I know thinks that we're better for being in here.

As far as wanting to be away from the community, you couldn't be more wrong. We are CREATING a community out of a sprawl of houses and businesses where you never know your neighbor. We are actually PRO-COMMUNITY.

[Coventina]

42. What I am saying, is that I'm not allowed to walk down your street. Why?

Give me one good reason why.

[progressivebydesign]

39. You not paying for my infrastructure... I am. we pay for our street, etc.

Sorry to disappoint you. We pay taxes for our place, just as you do. I find it freakin' hilarious that someone, in light of the fact that you are being robbed blind by corporate tax welfare, would drag out a lame argument like that because you feel excluded. Sorry I don't live in a shack.. I know it's a disappointment to other liberals.

[Coventina]

44. Fine, then you should also pay for your own police, fire, water treatment,

etc.

Don't ask the larger community to allow you to use their resources if they are not allowed on your streets.

[Momgonepostal]

49. They are still paying for those things, too

Quitely possibly, if the neighborhood is expensive, they are paying not just a higher dollar amount, but also a higher rate than other people.

[Coventina]

52. But by being connected to the bigger grid, they reap the benefits of

the larger mass of people contributing.

They should have to function without that cost savings, if they have cut themselves off of the larger community.

[progressivebydesign]

50. Huh? So can I just camp out on your lawn or driveway?

No? It's private property? Then I shouldn't have to pay for the fire department to go into your yard or house or driveway, either. See how ridiculous that argument is? A private club with grounds gets fire protection, a private convalescent hospital gets services yet we cannot roam freely in their hospital. The argument that somehow MY tax dollars should not get me public services is pretty inane. I pay my taxes just as you do... access has zip to do with it.

[Coventina]

54. I'm not talking about traipsing through your house.

I'm talking about being able to walk or drive down your street.

There is a big difference.

[Momgonepostal]

47. We almost live in a shack, and it still has a gate LOL

OK, not a shack, but definitely on the lower end of things.

[ret5hd]

15. You know what? I've got ALL those things...

1) small kids riding and playing outside (not mine, neighbors)
2) lovely things on our porches and gardens that have never been vandalized
3) knowing our neighbors
4) sense of community
5) multicultural (hispanic, black, white, elderly, young families, single, gay, straight...we got some of EVERYTHING where i live)

our front door (and our neighbors) is always open (weather permitting), there are frequently "yard parties" on the weekends (grilling, a little beer, a little tequila, maybe a good cigar, kids laughing and running, parents grouped on porches and lawn chairs)

guess where we live? about 3 miles from downtown fort worth...on city streets with NO gates. the very fact that you feel the items listed above are an exclusive perk of living in a gated community speaks volumes. Don't be so afraid of us...we don't bite.

[Horse with no Name]

37. I understand what you are saying

I don't have to lock my doors and I can leave my purse in an unlocked car--does that mean you can do that where you live? Of course not.
My Mom lives in Phoenix. Phoenix has a pretty high crime rate.
She lives in a gated community out of safety.
The house she has in Phoenix isn't really any better than the one she had in Waxahachie which also was not gated, but the one in Waxahachie was much safer.
Many times it is just the area you live in.

[progressivebydesign]

51. Wow. You're lucky. Those neighborhoods are hard to find now.

Seriously. unfortunately those of us in suburbia have to make our own. Cities usually have those neighborhoods, but not all of us live in cities.

[notadmblnd]

59. ditto here

and 90% of the time we go to bed with the doors unlocked.

[mongo]

24. It really depends on what you mean by "rich"

in the mind of most people I deal with on a day to day basis, I'm sure you would be seen as rich.

I'm not one of the "eat the rich" crowd on DU, and not a total socialist, but you have to realize how much more you have than the average American.

[philosophie_en_rose]

26. I live in a "gated" community and I think you're post is outrageous.

"Financial bigotry" ???

Get real! The OP stated that the community's OWN RULES prevented FEMA assistance.

I have nothing against wealth, but it's just ridiculous to pretend to be a victim. "Oh the poor oppressed rich people!" Please.

[progressivebydesign]

41. Yeah right. Financial bigotry doesn't exist on DU. okay.

You obviously haven't read many threads here, have you? There is an automatic 'fuck the rich' attitude around here, and it's been pointed out many times. Apparently you have to live in a shack to be a nice person.

you only have to look at one of the posts here that states that the writer could care less what happens to anyone living in a gated community, because they're RICH.

Yep. Financial bigotry, or classism, is as alive here as it is in the GOP, only it's reversed. Never said I was rich.. far from it. Rich bashing is a sport here... I guess it's jealousy.

[ultraist]

53. "Rich bashing is a sport here"

Complaining about the rich being bashed is about as ridiculous as the Christians complaining that they are being persecuted, considering our current climate where the large majority of the rich voted for Bush while the rest of America gets fucked, by the rich.

[I_am_Spartacus]

35. You should read this book:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/156584582X/qid=1130510533/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-0220614-2217465?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[Horse with no Name]

36. Nice rant.

:thumbsup:

[Coventina]

11. Depends on the gated community.

If a gated community means single family homes on streets that the public is not allowed to access, then yes, I agree. No sympathy from me. They've decided that they are on their own, and that the rest of us are not worthy of being in their neighborhood. Fuck 'em.

If by "gated community" you mean one isolated property, like an apartment building or condo building with it's attached parking facility, that is a different matter. It's pretty much the same as one shared "home".

[Fla Dem]

14. Do you have the same feeling about people who live in

high rise buildings that don't allow public access, or apartment buildings only accessed with a pass card/key, or homes on private ways, or homes with fences around them. Or maybe we should just allow whomever wants to just walk into our homes whenever they want. Otherwise we all would fall into your category of wanting to be on our own.

I don't understand the F.U. knee jerk reaction to people who have gained some security in their lives. It's not undemocratic, or even anti-liberal to acquire wealth, however little or great it may be, and to live comfortably. If it wasn't for many of the well heeled and even moderately comfortable liberals contributing funds to many of our causes, those causes would be nothing more than spitting into the wind.

[Coventina]

17. As I stated in my post, one building is one shared home. My objection is

to gated STREETS.

If I am not good enough to drive down your street, my taxes should not help support your infrastructure.

[Momgonepostal]

19. A lot of those people DO pay for that infrastructure...

separately through HOA dues, PLUS pay federal, state and local taxes, gas taxes, etc, that pay for your street as well. I'm sure not getting a free ride anywhere.

[Coventina]

22. So if it's all fair and above-board, why am I not welcome on your street?

:shrug:

[Momgonepostal]

27. I can tell you why we got the gate...

Before I moved in, it was an apartment complex with pools and a couple of tennis courts. A few years ago, residents started looking around and realized a lot of the people using the pools were outside neighbors who were not actually residents here and not paying for facility maintenance. Later the place went condo and got a gate, partly for security reasons, partly to keep out people who wanted to use our pools and fun stuff for free.

I'm sorry if that offends you, but this is our private property, in the same way that the guy in the single family house with a fenced yard has his private property. The main difference is we're not one family who owns this, we are 200ish who own it together. I wouldn't expect the guy across the street to take down his fence so I can stroll through his yard, have a picnic on his patio, take a dip in the pool he pays to maintain. It's HIS yard, his pool. And this is my yard, my pool, my roads, all of which my co-owners and I pay to maintain. We pay just under $200 a month in HOA dues that pay this stuff and it's still cheaper to live here than in the single family homes across the street. A 2 bedroom unit here would sell for somewhere in the low $200K. The homes across the street that have sold recently have been $325-$375K. We're not the affluent ones in the neighborhood.

You are certainly welcome in my neighborhood. Just buzz me at the gate first.

[Coventina]

32. If all you are talking about is condos & a parking lot, that's fine

What I'm objecting to is actual ROADS being fenced off from the public.

I live in a townhome complex BTW. It is NOT a gated community, but the pool is fenced off and accessible only by key. This is mandatory for safety reasons. I find it amazing that you had an unfenced, unsecured pool prior to it "going condo". What kept the little kids from wandering in and drowning?

[Momgonepostal]

45. We also have a locked fence around the pool

I'm not sure what came first, it was all before my time. I imagine the pool has always been fenced, for liability reasons as well. I think non-residents using the pools and the tennis courts was still a problem, though. There are also a lot of older people here who were concerned about crime. I don't know if there is any less crime with the gate than without it. It makes people feel more secure but we still have our problems. Our gate is accessible by remote, but not manned 24/7. It's pretty easy to follow someone else in. The gate does cut down on door to door sales people, and in my mind that's a plus.

The bottom line for me here is that if FEMA really isn't going into gated communities/neighborhoods or whatever we want to call them, that stinks. If people are saying, "good, because anyone with a gate is a rich bastard." then thats stinks even more and is wrong to boot.

[ultraist]

57. Gated communities represent anti progressive values

They promote economic and racial segregation. Not everyone who is well off, lives in a gated community.

You're confounding having financial stability with gated communities. They are not one in the same.

[Momgonepostal]

13. We live in a gated community

We're a family of four in a just under 1000 sf condo. It is NOT upscale, fancy, expensive, or elitist. We bought here as opposed to a regular house because we liked the schools. The houses in our price range at the time were major fixers or in the flight path of the airport or by the meat packing plants. Most of the people in my complex are either old, or here because they can't afford a typical house...or both.

[T Wolf]

9. Put the resources toward those with the greatest need.

In some "gated communities" the problems are no more than an inconvenience. My father and his POSSLQ live in such a place. They have no power or water but are making do. They have the resources (money) to survive. My only concern is their age (87 and 80). So I check on them by phone every day.

For those communities that are as described by MadHound, these people do need help and should receive it.

And since when does the administration pay any attention to laws or rules? Of course, if it is to their advantage, they will go "by the book."

It does seem that the expected great Fed response in Jebbie's state is not occurring. Gee, they must be more fucked up than even we thought. Will Americans wake up before it's too late?

[Catherine Vincent]

20. I always wanted to know the real reason why people choose to

live in gated communities (I'm not talking about retirees). I always get the feeling it's other than the usual nice neighborhood, good for the kids, blah blah blah.

[ret5hd]

23. they're afraid (nt)

[MountainLaurel]

25. You have to understand the code

"usual nice neighborhood" = no poor people or minorities here, other than the nannies raising our children and the people cleaning our houses

"good for the kids" = my children can attend schools where all of the other children are just like them

[Momgonepostal]

29. LOL...nannies? Where?

Where the Hell would we put a nanny? That's a laugh.

There are NO nannies in my neighborhood.

My kids do go to a good school, but it's not a "white" school. Most of the children in my daughter's kindergarten class are non-white, and most of their families probably make more money than we do...lol.

[Igel]

34. I live in a gated apt. complex.

60% black, maybe 10% Asian, I can't recall seeing any Latinos, but the other 30% is white.

Ah. I see what you're saying. We all must hate Latinos.

We have a fair number of NOLA evacuees. All African-American. Good to know they're rich and racist, too.

That *is* the implication of what you said. Do you stand by it, or don't gated apartment complexes count? Because if they don't, I know of a couple of gated housing complexes in Los Angeles that are mostly (apparently rich and racist) black-majority.

It's like painting the Mona Lisa with a typical 3" or 4" paintbrush. The result is non-representational.

[ultraist]

58. Yes, homongeniety is a big part of it.

where all of the other children are just like them

[Momgonepostal]

28. For us, it was the best home we could afford at the time

if there had been no gate, we still would have bought here. The gate was not a major selling point for us.

[Igel]

33. Sometimes it's paranoid fear.

Sometimes it's fear that has a basis in reality: burglaries, etc.

Sometimes it's because people don't like what we had in LA: cars going down the side street "shortcut" at 40 mph ... past an elementary school and senior citizen center, no less. Homeless people attracted by the customers a couple of blocks away, but who decide to sleep in nearby apt. courtyards.

Sometimes it's where the house or apartment is that suits your needs and price range.

About the only ethnicity I haven't known living in gated communities is Latino. And I suspect that's because most of the Latinos I've known just don't have the money.

Some do it for racism. But hinting that all do it out of racism is stereotyping a bit too much.

[RB TexLa]

43. The legal truth

If someone has private property that is clearly protected, a fence, wall, gate or whatever you can not enter it without permission. Of course law enforcement executing an arrest or similar have some legal leeway in regards to this but I can't see how FEMA does. They can not just come and break the lock on my front door because they think I may need water or a MRE. Now if there were reason to believe there are people in dire need of medical attention there are different rules but that would be local officials to make that call, as that is who provides such services.

All someone has to do is contact them and tell them they are welcome to come into the community.

[tsuki]

46. Good. Let their high priced security take care of them.