The Real Conservative Power: Why Fitz and shrub don’t matter.

[bluedawg12]

Regardless of what happens with the Fitz indictments, whether they come or not, it will matter little other than a sense of being vindicated, on some level, for us.

But, in my opinion shrub no longer matters.

He is a lame duck.

He has only three more years to go.

He has been weakened as a President.

His Iraq policy is failing.

Why isn’t this good news for dems?

Because shrubco is a front, and he is disposable to the real radicalrightwing ruling elite.

They will blame him, ruin his legacy if they need to do so to distance themselves from him, but they will remain behind the scenes as the policy makers.

Witness this Harriet Miers debacle.

The religious right would have been happy to have a fundy in SCOTUS. But she failed to please the neocon intelligencia. And they came out in full force and pulled a frontal attack. And, in an unprecedented move, even before she could make a peep on her own behalf in front of Congress she is out. This is a testimony to the real poer in the conservative party.

I am afraid and concerned that this Fitzgerald investigation is a distraction. I am afraid that even our heart felt attacks on shrub are a distraction. The real power resides with those who took us to war with Iraq, those who have for years been writing our foreign policy, those who blasted Harriet right out of the game, these unelected power brokers and policy makers that seem to influence Presidents and Prime Ministers.

When shrub is gone, or weakened for another three years, the neocons will not be out of power. They will write books, continue to have their policy think tanks, keep writing their magazine articles, and continue to appear on TV influencing public opinion.

They have incredible power and the Harriet Miers withdrawal only confirms that.

I think we need to keep our eye on the real prize, shrubco is so 2004, but watch the real brains behind the conservative movement- that’s where the power is.

Thoughts?


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/06/AR2005100601468.html

Withdraw This Nominee

By Charles Krauthammer

Friday, October 7, 2005; Page A23
By choosing a nominee suggested by Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid and well known only to himself, the president has ducked a fight on the most important domestic question dividing liberals from conservatives: the principles by which one should read and interpret the Constitution. For a presidency marked by a courageous willingness to think and do big things, this nomination is a sorry retreat into smallness.
.........
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/06/AR2005100602069.html
Right Sees Miers as Threat to a Dream

By Dan Balz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, October 7, 2005; Page A01
"No one has anything against her," said William Kristol, editor of the Weekly Standard and one of the first conservatives to register his disappointment. "But the idea that one is supposed to sacrifice both intellectual distinction and philosophical clarity at the same time is just ridiculous."

[tk2kewl]

1. well founded fears IMO

:scared:

[bluedawg12]

2. Scott Ritter called them parasites.

They attach to any ruling power group- and survive.

[tk2kewl]

7. and take a look at the Dems who still say they wouldn't vote

any differently for the Iraq war today, and you'll know who the powers that be are grooming for their continued control

[bluedawg12]

28. yup. n/t

[henslee]

3. I remarked similarly as to why taking out the figureheads matter little.

The money dumped into republican coffers via mining rights sold/prp energy & pro pharmaceutical legislation/fat contracts, the acts of gerrymandering, BBV, media consolidaton. We have much wood to chop before we claim victory.

[bluedawg12]

4. Exactly- the radical RW is so well funded they will continue

long afer KKKarl is gone and shrub just means weeds on the front lawn.

[henslee]

9. I dont like to admit it on DU but things are fuuuucked. And it doesnt

have to be the radical right wing that has the money. It just has to be the corporatists who don't mind funding/jumping into bed with the RRW for their own selfi$h motives.

[bluedawg12]

25. henslee- Big money being spent, they are entrenched

because of heavy right wing funding by wealthy families with corporate fortunes.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=John_M._Olin_Foundation


John M. Olin Foundation
In 2001, the Foundation expended $20,482,961 to fund right-wing think tanks including the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), the Brookings Institution, the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), the Claremont Institute for the Study of Statesmanship and Political Philosophy, the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), the Heritage Foundation, the Hoover Institution on War, Revolution and Peace, the Hudson Institute, the Independent Women's Forum, the Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS) at Johns Hopkins University, the Manhattan Institute for Public Policy Research, and the Project for the New American Century (PNAC). "The Foundation also gives large sums of money to promote conservative programs in the country's most prestigious colleges and universities."<3>


The Foundation is financed by the Olin chemical and munitions fortune with assets estimated at $90 million, $3 million of which goes to conservative advocacy groups.
Pierson attributes the success of the stable of conservative foundations - Olin, Scaife, Bradley Earhart, JM and Smith Richardson - to their willingness to provide long term support of organisations. "They took the long view, investing to build institutions that might take a decade or more to mature. They also adopted a broad agenda that went far beyond business and economics to include such subjects as foreign policy, law, religion, history and even cultural criticism, " he wrote

[Lethe]

5. the elite are not conservative or liberal

they use the left/right paradigm to keep us in constant conflict. they manipulate both sides to get what they want. all they care about is money and power. Political ideology or affiliation means nothing to them.

[bluedawg12]

8. ikhor- totally agree. They are opporrtunists

with their own agenda.

[annabanana]

39. (didn't really want to bring this up on this happy day, but..

the PPI and their "third way" are the corporatist's door into the Democratic power structure, and I fear that the corpo money will shift to these candidates to stunt any growth in progressivism)

[DBoon]

13. The German industrialists who supported Hitler..

weren't ideologically devoted Nazis - they wanted to use the Nazis as a tool to crush the left.

The corporate powers in this country will use any poltical movement they can to achieve their ends.

Sometimes (like with Hitler) these movements end up using them.

[bluedawg12]

16. Like Hitler's fascist ideology coupled with heavy duty

social engineering. Controlling the masses.

This time it is with religiosity, trumped up cultural wars, dividing the nation, and international chaos.

They f*cking thrive on chaos.

Now, they have their hooks set on the third branch of government and by blowing Harriet away they are about to get a weak shrub to nominate a RW ideologue.

[waiting for hope]

6. Is there a list

of those up for re-election in '06 and '08? - I've seen bits and pieces but not a complete comprehensive one.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Anybody who has been paying attention knows that bush is a front

has always been a front, he is just the care taker... what we are facing is a fascist movement, use the correct words. They will not stop until they either are utterly desroyed or they destroy the America they so much hate.

[bluedawg12]

12. nadin- that's why we must stay vigilant

I have already started to think the shrub is invisible- a future ghost - but boy the neocons are maneuvering and Harriet is a blatant display of their power.

Who the hell are these guys to get so much press, the WaPo? Come on,we all have ideas, but trying getting some NYT, or WaPo coverage.

Here is a great link showing their ties and funding, it's an important site to book mark.

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/rw/501

The Glue that Binds the Movement
By Michael Flynn | September 8, 2005


IRC Right Web rightweb.irc-online.org


They are the glue that binds American conservatism—in all its flavors: neoconservative, libertarian, evangelical, triumphalist—into an effective political conglomeration. They fund the right’s magazines, the think tanks, the policy institutes, the writers, and the advocacy groups. They help spearhead public policy campaigns as well as idea networks. And they seem to never take their eye off the ball. They are the conservative foundations—the expansive trough of cash that nourishes much of the right-wing’s political infrastructure

[Bernardo de La Paz]

30. Libertarians are NOT bound into American Conservativism.

It is extremely foolish to confuse Libertarians with Authoritarians. The two are fiercely opposed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. Some are follishly mind you, but they are

they put off their personal goals for victory

[berni_mccoy]

11. I think he does matter...

And taking him out of office would be a testimony of the American people: that they won't accept an administration that fosters Corruption.

Allowing him to stay in office would mean that Americans would 'settle' for a useless president who has been shamed. I don't want someone like that representing my country.

[bluedawg12]

14. Assuming he is impeached who do we get?

The VP?

The speaker of the house?

Will the neocons be disempowered?

[berni_mccoy]

17. I think the entire admin needs to fall...

Not just Bush.

At a minimum: Bush, Cheney, Rove, Libby, Rumsfeld, Rice...

If they are all rooted out, there won't be enough left to maintain the 'cabal' and it will fall apart.

[bluedawg12]

19. berni- I must disagree, though I wish you were right.

When this cabal is rooted out- what of those that have been planning the Iraq war since 1995?

What of those at PNAC?

What of those like Krystal Krauthammer, Frum, Perl, do not misunderestimate the entire PNAC polit bureau.

[berni_mccoy]

20. Well, true on that... that's why we need dem control in 50 states

it's the only way to keep these people from ruining the country.

[bluedawg12]

21. berni- exactly, and I am frightened the radicalRW just won

the right to place a far right conservative ideologue judge in SCOTUS
because shrub was weak, stupid, and ultimately bungled it for them and they turned on him like vipers now Harriette is gone with out even a chance for anyone to know her ideas.

They will force shrub to pick another Scaliajudge.

Damn these guys are powerful. KKKarl is just a small time Texas pollster,the guys I worry about can be found here:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/

[longship]

15. If Fitz doesn't matter, than the republic is dead.

If the rule of law is truly fractured, we've already seen the death of the republic. I see things as being in grave danger, but I have to reject your conclusions at this time. Please let's not jump to conclusions. If the rule of law is gone, it is already too late. Regardless, we have to play out this hand.

[bluedawg12]

18. You have misinterpretted my idea.

I did not say that the rule of law does not matter.

I am saying that strategically it does not matter to us as Democrats, liberals and progressives if they are indicted or not - strategically- because even if and when they are gone the real ruling elites will remain.

We cannot simply focus on the issues of today, let's say KKKarl, or Libby goes. OK law prevails. But the neocons remain and will pick other figure heads for 2008.

I am trying to focus on the bigger picture and the future.

[longship]

26. Aha! Thanks.

I see your point and somewhat agree with your accessment of the ruling elite. But, this Fitz business is very good in that the current regime could be broken on the wheel of justice. I can't help but think that this could result in some substantial change in the poltical environment. In other words, I see it as an open door to turn it strategically. Of course, if nobody walks through the door, you're probably correct.

[bluedawg12]

29. longship, I see your point too, that Fitz can impact

the opinion of the American people and they will realize that phony wedge issues aside they are a corrupt bunch with little regard for the US.

You helped to remind me of something I almost forgot--LOL!-- voters.

To summarize our points then:

Fitzgerald indictments can help Americans realize that they need to be more careful with their votes because repugs are once again shown to be corrupt. Trixon, Raygun and now shrub. Time for them to think Dem!

In the meantime, we cannot rest on the fall of any of the current rodents because there are really large rodent powers behind this current crop of rats.

I think we are in agreement. Thanks for the dialog, it's been thought provoking.:toast:

bluedoggy

[longship]

33. Cheers!

That's one thing we can agree on.
:toast:

I think this Fitz business is also turning the press around the corner, if only by a small amount.

Our efforts should concentrate on leveraging what we have. We need to keep the pressure on the press and the Dems. I regularly contact both.

I called Reid's office this morning and told them that I felt Reid's handling of the Miers affair was brilliant, from his first statement about her to today's speech. Apparently he is receiving many, many calls with similar opinion.

Our efforts are making some differences.

[yodermon]

22. I worry about this too.

Imagine this scenario.
1) Dick indicted. Shrub unindicted co-consp.
2) Dick resigns.
3) Shrub appoints Poppy (!) {daddy help, please clean up my mess}*
4) Shrub resigns.
5) We're all supposed to breathe a sigh of relief?! Not even taking down our Fitzmas decorations??!

We are still in the grips of the BFEE and Halliburton, for which it stands, with no-bid contracts and pardons for all.

The corporatocracy has far too much at stake to let Junior and the Neocons take them down.

*ON edit: unless there are term limits for the VEEP??

[bluedawg12]

23. The neocons are funded by the corporate rulers.

Remember mellon scaife- who funded the Paula Jones Monica gate witch hunts, and the other wealthy right wing families who support the think tanks and these egg heads who write great theories about war- and then their chicken hawkish ideas bring us to the brink of disaster in Iraq. If, not already beyond.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

31. Rove resigns. Cheney promoted to Rover. Bush promoted to Vice Prez.

[bluedawg12]

34. Rove resigns, shrub goes to rally in Idaho can't find it

calls who for directions and never heard from again.

Karen Hughes assumes oval office in what will later be called:
The Tampon Rebellion. :tinfoilhat:

[bluedawg12]

24. Tid bit on real power in the US

The Coors, Mellon-Scaiphes, the Olins, the Bradley's: look at their policies and you can see that they put the words in shrubs mouth.


When shrub is gone they will work behind the scenes to keep at their goals.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Foundation

The Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, based in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, is a large and influential right-wing foundation with about half a billion US dollars in assets. According to the Bradley Foundation 1998 Annual Report, it gives away more than $30 million per year. The Foundation has financed efforts to support welfare reform, to promote school vouchers, to deregulate business, and to privatize government services

The Bradley Foundation has provided important support for think tanks and groups that advocated an attack on Iraq as a response to the September 11, 2001 attacks, such as the Project for a New American Century and the John M. Olin Center for Strategic Studies. In early 2003, Joyce bragged to a local paper that President George W. Bush and members of his administration were influenced by the policy discussions of those groups. Joyce commented that the attack only hastened Bush's inevitable move towards neoconservatism. <1>

[bluedawg12]

27. Did you guys notice the figure head is in Florida today

doing what he does best- not running the country, planying cowboy hero.

He is not needed in DC. He only needs to return when they put the name of the next nominee in his mouth for him

This is not a case that the emperor has no clothing, this is a case of an absent emperor all together. Leadership vacuum.

I am betting the next nominee will be so far right that harriet will look like a prochoice women's libber bra burning hippie.

[bluedawg12]

35. An evening after work -kickeroonie. n/t

[bluedawg12]

36. David Frum-con on tweety; why dumping harriet was important

will ensure that tomorrow shrub will have the conservative party behind him.

Here is the scenario:

Mr. Shrub if you don't divest Harriette we will not stand behind you when the indictments come in.

You can't do that.

Yes, we can. Remember your legacy, sir. Remember three more years is a long time with out our support.


What do you want? She was a religious fundy?

We want someone who can stand up to the intellectual powers of Kennedy, Ginsberg, and Suetter. Unless you put up a tried and true conservative who can interpret the Constitution like Judges Bork, Scalia, Rhenquist and Thomas you risk a light weight who will roll over on future important conservative issues.


But she is against Roe v. Wade.

Sir, the Court will have many other matters important to conservatives beyond R v W.
...........

Now, that we can see where the power came from the knocked Harriet out of play- the question is what are they so worried about making sure will pass the Court in the future that they are adamant beyond Roe v. Wade?

That's the question tonight worrying me.

[countryjake]

41. He was on all three cable channels, saying the same thing.

Without our participation in the ICC, possibly, there will be war crimes to deal with, as this thing expands and their "pre-emptiveness" reaches the point that ordinary citizens find a need to actually stop it.

Per ordinary citizens, further expansion of the Patriot Act, suspending due process for anyone deemed a suspected "insurgent", as habeus corpus no longer will apply to those disagreeing with "policy". Gitmos on the mainland, in other words.

Further dissolution of Unions; (ie. suspension of Davis-Bacon in non-disaster areas), eliminating pension plans, skirting common safety precautions and age-old EPA rules, foregoing any cost-of-living concerns, ignoring senority and tenure.

Destroying Social Security, as we know it.

Eliminating the family farm. And Eminent Domain run amok, in urban areas.

I see all of such cases ending up in Washington.

[bluedawg12]

37. So scooter resigns, KKKarl still under a cloud, shurb is at Camp David

hiking, Darth by pass is weeping into his copy of The Art of War and The Prince and here we are.

The trial is months away.

Shrub will select a new radicalright SCOTUS nominee, and the war goes on.


It's time to think about '06 and '08 and time to take back our country.

How do we do that?

[lostnfound]

38. Close..I think we need to concentrate on spiking the koolaid..

that is, we need to work on the root ideas that have been sold to the American public..

the myths like these:
*that 'welfare queens' are the biggest drain of their tax dollars
*that capital produces all economic good
*that our system is fair or balanced towards people with good ideas willing to work hard..
*that privatized assets are always more efficient that public assets
*that the US foreign policy is benevolent and for the good of all of us
*that Democrats are financially irresponsible

[bluedawg12]

40. lostnfound- yes, because many will simply believe that shrub is a good man

and that his minions failed him.

If they shoot themselves in the foot we still haven't actaully shot them.

We need to get American voters to do more than ignore shrub- they need to listen to our message.

Shrub will be gone- but they will send another, are we ready?

[ROH]

42. Very Interesting Points (n/t)

[bloom]

43. I was thinking recently that ROVE is 54...

so he could be screwing up our country for another 20 - 30 years if nobody ever does anything to hold him accountable for his crimes. Just like Cheney/Rumsfeld from the Reagan era - Rove and Libby (who was also born in 1950) could be a cancer that keeps on growing.

At least Cheney 64 and Rumsfeld 73 might retire soon.

I agree that Bush* is irrelevant.

[bluedawg12]

44. bloom- KKKarl has said that he wants to see the repugs in power

for 20 years or more. He intends to do that if he can.

But here are some thoughts:

1.) If KKKarl get's indicted would that stop the neocon agenda?

Remember that 10 years ago fatboy-rove was a Texas political operative and yet the conservative revolution began with-out him, the conservatives claim it began with Raygun.

2.) The country is divided, we can't keep doing this 50/50 red blue split.

I have been thinking why aren't we doing a mammoth "get out the vote" drive? Our new votes won't come from but a few conservatives, or indies, who peel off. The rest are brain washed.

BUT---isn't there a huge untapped portion of this nation that does not vote at all?

Why not get those people to vote- and vote for us.

3.) We can't remain passive and wait for indictments, and the bad news alone to sink the repugs- we need to move well past that and have something that will appeal to voters. I don't think repug indictments bring in too many new Dem votes.

[upi402]

45. Good idea bluedog, get out the vote!

That... and election fraud reform will help wipe a few layers of tird-slime from the cesspool of democracy that Repugs have dipped our democracy into.

[bluedawg12]

46. If we get the non-voters to vote we don't need any repug left overs.

And dump the Liebold Machines.

Agreed!

[countryjake]

47. Calling them "brainwashed" will get you nothing!

A lot of folks who are registered non-voters follow what their local and national government officials get done extremely closely, for your information. When they see Senators and Representatives deciding against the public interest on vital issues (CAFTA, for one instance; Patriot Acts, another), most will make a note of that, and unless a candidate presents that seems intent on undoing damage already done and promises actual improvement, many non-voters hold a higher standard than to participate in the sport of "choosing the lesser of two evils".

Until thinking, common people see a candidate who conducts themselves as though they honestly stand for principles that represent the majority of the citizens of their state and nation, there will continue to be smart folks who know that their vote hasn't ever changed a damn thing!

[cassiepriam]

48. Yes, get rid of *, the way is paved for the next set of con artists.

There is too much money and power at stake, and con artists saw that stealing america was like taking candy from a baby. There will be long line waiting to take shrub's place. And other Roves.

The only hope is getting the press to do their job, and ensuring free elections.

[callady]

49. A few thoughts

Came across this today as an anonymous comment on a chat board which seems relevant:

"The problem with americans and journalists is, that they always get lost in the jungle of juristic nonsense. They believe in words and paragraphs, idealistic madness without real ideals. What matters is: the reality of war, the tranference of global production to China/Asia and how the working people react upon that, the oil production, the mercilessly unfolding global climate catastrophe etc., and not least: the cultural heritage which is able to survive all your nonsense. Who is lying how in this case? We'll never know for sure, and it doesn't matter at all. "Plamegate" or whatever they can come up with as distracting TV-novels won't save their asses, neocons or neoliberals or whatever the fascist idiots of today prefer to call themselves. They don't understand reality at all, and that's their problem. They're lost in the schizo-illusions of capital, obsessed with changing everything into money, and then more money, further more money and so on forever. But we can't eat money and we don't live from paragraphs or newspapers."

"Active servitude is total, passive resistance is invincible" (B. Gracian, 1653)

And this article:
The Sound Of Silence

      L. Steele / October 29, 2005

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." ~ Martin
Luther King, jr.

Can you hear it too? What is that sound? The sound that has the ability to drive a man
nuts. The sound of electricity buzzing in the lights. Yes, that is the sound of silence. A
sound that has spread across this nation like a disease. It's like sitting in a church when
everyone takes a moment to pray and suddenly you hear a baby start to cry. That’s what
we hear, the sound of helpless tears from mothers who hoped that their children would
outlive them. Yet, nobody runs to comfort her. The sound of nothing and an absence of
action to go with it. Silence, a sound foreign to America. A sound that is pleasing to kings
and crippling to peasants. For the rest of the world, this is America's real shock and awe,
its silence. The days are gone when all nations would look to see what American's were
saying. No longer do they look to America, simply because there is nothing to hear or see
here. America sits silent while lady Justice is raped. Just when did America lose it's voice?

Silence is the sound of surrender. The sound of fear. Creating fear is the quickest way to
achieve silence. Who benefits from the silence? Who would want to mute the mouths of
Americans? You ask yourself that question; don't run around asking everyone else until
you can answer it. It is not a trick question. It is a very simple question and has been
answered by generations of the past. Rome, Germany, Russia, France, and China are
prime examples of a people that were silent. As the past will prove, it is not an imaginary
organization that benefits from a nations silence. Indeed, it is the leaders of that nation’s
government which benefits from the silence.

<snip>

If all of the trucks shut down on the side of the road, and all of the factory workers didn't
show up to work, it would only take one day for government to take notice. One day! That
is fact. What is your issue? High fuel prices? You will not get lower fuel prices by buying
fuel! You can't just wait for an elected official to decide it is enough. That's not going to
happen. Are we waiting for somebody honest to be elected president? Listen, it is not
going to happen!! We have to make them be honest. If we want results, it will take action
on our part. We have to take to the streets with our grievances. Petitions will not get us
anywhere. Apologies will not fix anything. We have to take action, the time is Now!

http://www.americauncensored.net/articles/october2005/SoundOfSilence.html

[Bouncy Ball]

50. Public perception counts for a lot.

bush represents the repuke party. Where he fucks up, people tend to assign that to his party, too. That's the problem for the repukes right now. BIG problem, too.

[bluedawg12]

51. It is a problem for Bush but the rpugs still support him at 80%

However, we cannot rely on passive bad news about them and hope it raises our numbers. It has not, so far we are not getting people perceiving the Dems. much different than in Dec. 2004.

That means we have to be proactive now and start coming out with a strong Dem agenda. Our people need to be out there in TV land, and also out on the trail, having meetings in small towns and communities all across the nation.

This is the time for us to make our mark, we can not be passive we must be proactive.