Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Thirteen

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 09:46 AM
Original message
Thirteen
{1} Thirteen

"If you have been watching television lately, I think this is unendurably clear in the faces of those screaming people in the South, who are quite incapable of telling you what they are afraid of. They do not really know what it is they are afraid of, but they know they are afraid of something, and they are so frightened that they are nearly out of their minds. And this same fear obtains on one level or another, to varying degrees, throughout the entire country ..... There is no way around this. I am suggesting that these walls -- these artificial walls -- which have been up so long to protect us from something we fear, must come down. .... I want to suggest this: that the majority for which everyone is seeking which must reassess and release us from our past and deal with the present and create standards of what a man may be -- this majority is you. No one else can do it. The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in."
-- James Baldwin; Nobody Knows My Name; 1954; pages 112-114.

Today is a "big day" in American history. Despite the Bush-Cheney administration's best efforts to bury the Plame scandal, it has come to the front and center of the public's attention. The news media has been reporting the tension that grips Washington, DC, and comparing the level of administration corruption to Watergate and Iran-Contra.

Recently, Will Pitt shared a message from Ambassador Joseph Wilson with the members of the Democratic Underground. Wilson noted that this scandal will soon come to a head, and that it will result in a struggle to determine the direction our nation will move in.

Let's take a look from the grass roots level. Perhaps, as Baldwin suggests, we can assess the present, and determine what the standards will be for this country in the future. No one else can do it for us. "The world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in."

{2} "The Lion in Winter"

" 'He's a vile, detestable, moralistic person with no heart and no conscience who believes he's been tapped by God to do very important things,' one White House ally said, referring to Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald."
-- Thomas DeFrank & Michael McAuliff; Bush Pals rip Plame prosecutor; Daily News; 10-24-05; page 7.

Odd: many people would think "he's a vile, detestable, moralistic person with no heart and no conscience who believes he's been tapped by God to do very important things" is an apt description of George W. Bush. Suffice to say that we can expect the republican machine to resort to outright lies, vicious personal attacks, and irrational emotional outbursts in order to hide the truth. Let's look at a few specific sub-groups of the republican machine, and consider how they might react in the upcoming days.

(a) The White House/ administration: There appears to be a fracture within the administration, between the office of the president, and the office of the vice president. Clearly, the foreign policy "experts" that brought us the invasion of Iraq are centered in Cheney's camp. It seems unlikely that the president can protect both camps. Indeed, he needs to take actions to protect himself on his errors on Iraq.

(b) Congress: the republicans in the House and Senate will attempt to put a good face on this scandal, by saying the public isn't paying attention, and that "everyone" believed Saddam had WMD, and posed a threat to the USA.

(c) The pundits: have begun to turn on Judith Miller, and are reporting the tension in Washington and the anxiety in the White House, as this unfolds. More, we know that another five journalists have inside information on how the administration violated the law. Yet they are employed by business interests that are not prone to serving the public the truth. We can expect sophisticated manipulation of reporting, including trained liars like Bob Woodward. More, we can count on irrational fools like Sean Hannity to continue to harp on Bill Clinton's affair; this, we will find, is a good thing.

(d) Fools: the grass roots republicans who are too invested in the "big lie" to admit what frightens them will seek safety by ingesting what Ouspensky called the "ancient rancid bacon (and) .... rotten green ham; and from them comes all the moral scurvy which is eating itself into the life of the people around us." They will spew their contaminated thought processes in a number of ways, from in disguise on progressive sites on the internet ("but how do we answer the charges that Wilson lied?"), to irrational letters-to-the-editor of very newspaper, to emtionally-charged calls to C-SPAN.

(e) The Machine: Behind it is the machine, which owns the corporate media just as surely as it owns the oil companies that are reaping profits from the Iraqi resources. In the message to DU from Wilson, through friend Will Pitt, the question was raised: will we be a democracy, or a fascist state, as we head into the future.

{3} "The Bush administration's purpose is clear -- to limit debate, to limit discussion, to limit having to explain to the American people how much this war will cost and how many lives will be lost before it is over."
--Senator Robert Byrd; Losing America; 2004; page 268.

The job of the progressive democratic grass roots is to counter the administration's attempts to limit debate and to frame the discussions about the Plame scandal. We must be engaged in a campaign to explain to the American people how this scandal is the foundation of the administration's case for the war in Iraq. We must focus on what the cost in resources and lives has been, and will be, because of the corruption of the Bush administration at its highest levels.

In any campaign, there are three groups: 1- those who always support you; 2- those who always oppose you; and 3- the undecided. In a campaign for political office, one can be assured that group one will vote for them; group two will vote against them; and hence invest the vast majority of resources on reaching group three.

However, in a social/political/cultural campaign such as this one, we enjoy the opportunity to be more flexible in our approach. For example, because the corporate media has ignored this scandal for almost two years, it is likely that many of the "mainstream" democrats are not as informed on the issues involved as are readers of the Democratic Underground. Their knowledge of the case is more likely to be similar to that of the "undecided" people -- a group that includes democrats, republicans, and others. Hence, a grass-roots activist can, with a letter-to-the-editor or a call to C-SPAN, help to educate two of the three groups.

More, with e-mails to the talk shows on CNN, MSNBC, and Fox, we can fuel the emtional, irrational rantings of fools like Sean Hannity. We want to encourage them to attack Patrick Fitzgerald and Bill Clinton. Wilson knows he is going to continue to be a target; that's okay, we can neutralize those by bringing the facts to the table.

Our goal is not to limit the debate -- it is to encourage it. Even to provoke it. That includes aggravating, annoying, and antagonizing the opposition. One example should do: Sean Hannity will continue to shriek about Clinton; we need to respond with the simple message that Clinton betrayed his wife, and the administration betrayed the country. When Hannity rants that Clinton's scandal was more of an embarrassment than Bush's, we must make clear than Hannity is more willing to humiliate himself than was Monica.

{4} Worse Than Watergate

" 'He's like a lion in winter,' observed a political friend of Bush. 'He's frustrated. He remains confident in the decisions he has made. But this is a guy who wanted to do big things in a second term. Given his nature, there's no way he'd be happy about the way things have gone'."
-- Thomas DeFrank; Prez is 'The Lion in Winter'; Daily News; 10-24-05; page 2.

George W. Bush is the president. He is responsible for his administration. He made the decision to invade Iraq, after telling the country that we faced a grave danger, and that we risked having the "smoking gun" be a "mushroom cloud." In his state of the union speech leading up to the war, Bush uttered the infamous "16 words" about Iraq trying to buy yellow cake from Niger.

Either Bush was lied to and played for a fool by the vice president's office, or he was involved in the conspiracy to lie to and play the country for fools. Simply put, there is no third choice.

Ambassador Joseph Wilson was exercising his constitutional rights when he wrote the op-ed piece for the New York Times. Valerie Plame was working at the highest levels of the national intelligence community to protect our country from the threats posed by foreign enemies. Both were viciously attacked by an administration that sought to destroy both of them to protect their lies. In doing so, the administration threatens all of our constitutional rights, and our entire nation's safety.


"This world is before you and you need not take it or leave it as it was when you came in."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm with you.
This is just the beginning of the end.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftHander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
2. Excellent read....kick
and recommended
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
3. Ditto, wait, watch, listen and see, these days will go down in history
:beer:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
4. I so enjoy your posts.
Thanks...yet again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
5. Thank you, H2O man.
:hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
marylanddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
6. Excellent analysis.

It is a pivotal moment in history and we must sieze the day.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
7. Does somebody have a link to this?
I missed this:
"Recently, Will Pitt shared a message from Ambassador Joseph Wilson with the members of the Democratic Underground. Wilson noted that this scandal will soon come to a head, and that it will result in a struggle to determine the direction our nation will move in."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
8. To Arms!
Edited on Fri Oct-28-05 10:01 AM by Beetwasher
"Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country."

Funny, I always thought that was just a phrase that was used to test a new typewriter, until now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. An informed, active
grassroots is this administration's worst nightmare.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. truth is on our side!. Thank you H2O man!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pithy Cherub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
10. This boy-in-the-bubble presidency has yet to do the one thing
Edited on Fri Oct-28-05 10:19 AM by Pithy Cherub
needed to turn the discussion back towards him. Bush has forgotten that there was a mass exodus of White House aides that were fired by the president. (They can call it accepting resignations, if that is whats needed to maintain the last g-string over their political dignity.) Watergate is rife with parallels as is IranContra. These White House aides should resign or be fired en masse. It is not like they don't know that since many are on their third major presidential scandal or have previous felonies. Bush needs his FEMA team to rescue this presidency.

But alas, Rove will cling to the tailfeathers of this chickenhawk president as if his life depends on it. The tighter Rove clutches Bush, the more Bush will be stained. A house didvided will fall said the sixteenth president ... these corrupt and duplicitous republicans really miss every opportunity to learn from history.

:popcorn: On with Fitzmas 2005, Fitzmas 2006, Fitzmas 2007,...

On edit: please forgive me H20 Man, My :applause: for another fine writing Truth to Power accomplishment.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
egadsbrain Donating Member (407 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. Inspiring post...
Edited on Fri Oct-28-05 10:33 AM by egadsbrain
thank you!

Haven't read James Baldwin in years. Digging out my library card now...:thumbsup:

oops! this was reply to original post!:blush:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
12. first class. by the way, Candy Crowley said that 'liberal groups'
are not happy with the indictments because of the 'effect' on the first amendment. (I believe it was that. sheesh. I am so happy and so busy reading this that I can't keep it all in.) NAME THEM, CROWLEY!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. One is reminded
of those who said that Fitzgerald's pressure on Miller & Cooper posed a dire threat to a free press. Now we see that Miller's employment with the White House intelligence services -- and she answered to them, not the NY Times' editors -- is the threat to a free press.

Candy Crowley is a pathetic cow.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
13. To me, your posts are a gift from a wise elder.
Thank you for you insight and humanity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
14. About bush speaking those infamous "16 words" ...
I have seen that video clip several times. I understand that bush rehearsed the speech ad nauseam, but there is no doubt in my mind that when he rehearsed the SOTU speech, he was very very careful to place a particular emphasis on those words, with body language and facial expressions designed for maximum impact. If I didn't know better, I would swear I was watching a screen test for a grade B movie.

Thank you, H20Man, your posts are not to be missed. Onward Fitzian soldiers!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. From Byrd's book:
"Then the president's voice took on a different tone ..... It reminded me of my Boy Scout days, when theatrical scoutmasters would terrify youngsters with spooky tales around a campfire in the woods. After Bush finished, I concluded that this was quite possibly the most extraordinary feat of rhetorical acrobatics I had ever witnessed. In one fell swoop, the President had linked Saddam Hussein to September 11, placed him in league with Osama bin Laden, indeed with Hitler ..." (pages 181-2)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #16
26. Great minds think alike.
But Senator Byrd, being of a greater mind, expresses his thoughts more eloquently.

Thanks for the quoted material. I was not aware of that, but it serves to confirm and deepen my impression. BTW, bush is a bad actor (in more ways than one).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sundancekid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
47. "Onward Fitzian Soldiers" - priceless exhortation, can we quote you??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
18. Aah, It Wouldn't Have Seemed Fitting Nor Right
If you hadn't posted a thread on this day.

Watching Buchanan starting the spin on MSNBC, the "move along, nothing is happening here" variety. Rove, after 2 years of an investigation, is not indicted, and no one knows who Libby is. The counter to this came from a man who said that no one knew who Colson and McGruder were either, when Watergate started.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. While Buchanan is being
an ass today, I will say that a number of journalists (including Matthews, Russert, Buchanan, etc) are very sincere in their concern that this scandal will do severe damage to the country. I am not in agreement with much of their reasoning on this, but I think that it is possible to put some of the stupid things they say into that context. Our country needs to have a strong and honorable executive office in this point in world history. That's true, of course. But we also need a strong and honorable congress, and fair and honest federal courts. The present administration poses dangers to all of these institutions
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #19
27. Cleaning House Is Always An Uncomfortable
for dustballs. Listen, we are in a deconstruct phase, there's no two ways about it. What has been built in the last 30 years has just felt the first bam of the wrecking ball. It has to be and we must endure. No doubt, such a tenuous state will leave many disquieted and nervous. And we must also be vigilant that what is built in it's place is a true democracy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. I found Fitzgerald's
presentation fascinating.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. Honor...
I am particularly and continually incensed by the republican meme that disclosure causes the damage rather than the act that needs to be exposed.

Will the sky be red or grey on this dawn? Hard to tell yet here in the twilight.

-Hoot
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LynzM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-05 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #30
57. Same here
The posts and suggestions that "if there had been no investigation, there would have been no perjury." Listen, assholes, that's like a 6 year old's defense... come one. "It's only wrong when you get caught?" Hello? Makes me want to scream!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
20. Nominated.
Of course!! :7 Happy Friday!!! :bounce:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. And to you!
A day that will long live in history.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
22. leaking boat of democracy
If the media and elected officials can't keep our democracy from spouting leaks, then surely we will have to pressure them to. Can't let the loud mouth fascists have all the say. Our voice needs to be just as loud.

Thanks H20 man.
 Add to my Journal Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Andrea Mitchell,
who I have zero respect for, is starting to talk honestly on MSNBC right now. She mentioned Steve Hadley and others ....

Matthews just said it's the CIA versus the VP's office again ....

Mitchell is reading a note from Fitzgerald to leaders on the Hill. They will get a full report. This is significant. There is enough to start hearings on Cheney's role.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
24. Theme song to "Jaws" ......
sure wish that MSNBC would play that music for all involved.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
25. K & R.
Why thirteen? Am I missing something?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The_Mule Donating Member (264 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
28. I love the political judo!
"we can fuel the emotional, irrational rantings of fools like Sean Hannity" - that's exactly right! In this case, irrational ranting will bring even more light to the whole situation. This is not a case of going after the character jugular ala Clinton/Lewinsky. Rantings in those cases work to agitate the populace for a short season but then leave them empty and embarrassed. The ranters simply do not understand or care about the unsatisfactory afterglow if they achieve their initial goal. However, this is a case of leaders lying to us to get to do things most Americans don't want to happen, and the ranters do not realize that they have left the populace in its empty state. More ranting about this current issue will further awaken the true patriotic feelings that are sleeping deep within the populace. Ranting will just bring the situation to light so that the populace will come to the point of "remember the gold old days when all we had to worry about was a sex scandal?" even quicker.

By the way, "trained liars like Bob Woodward" and "irrational fools like Sean Hannity" are hilarious phrases!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
29. An undersecretary at state .....
gave Libby detailed reports on Wilson in May. This is going to expand. There is a cancer on the presidency .....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ItsTheMediaStupid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. This presidency is a cancer on America
It's also a danger to all of us in the world who truly value freedom and democracy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
32. kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FizzFuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
34. so glad to have your words along with all other DUers on this day!
Oct 28, 2005. This is the beginning. Just the beginning.

also, putting Senator Byrd's book on my list.

Together we are doing what could not be done alone; with hearts set on truth and right action, each fulfilling his and her unique role from moment to moment, we encourage and inspire one another.

We get the leaders we deserve; now we're finally approaching a critical mass of awakened people. We're looking at what we've been getting, and we're going to demand better.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Yep.
It's a struggle, of course. Democracy isn't easy. But it beats having criminals like Lewis Libby sending people to kill and die for the lies of greedy vultures.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
36. Thanks, H20 Man...and great post, as always.
I have a bit of hope today and don't really understand those who think it's over. I need to do a bit of regeneration before I can start being more politically active, but I think I'll be psychologically ready to start hammering away at some point in the future.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
StefanX Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
37. Either Bush was lied to by the vice president's office, or he was involved
Very good point, H2O man.

There is no third choice -- and neither of those two choices looks very good.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Aimah Donating Member (598 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. I think Bush knows about everything...
he's just too stupid to realize how horrible Rove and Cheneys ideas are. Condi is along for the ride, being a yes woman she agrees to everything.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
38. Thank you H20Man!
I am of the same mind on this! This is only the beginning of the end. I am patiently waiting for the "other shoe to drop". In the meantime I will continue to diligently work at the"grass roots level". Here in my hometown we are about to have an election on Nov. 8th. We are in the process of taking back our little town FOR the Democrats! First time in 20 yrs. The repubs have dominated here, and one of the candidates is willing to give up his office of State Rep. to become the first selectman. He's been in office for 17 yrs. as a Repub. , but were are going to win this one!!! I'll let you know when we do, and today's victory for TRUTH to POWER is going to help us WIN!! POWER TO THE PEOPLE!! ( Lord, I feel like I'm back in the '60's again!!):headbang: Peace, DC
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
northamericancitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
39. k&n Thank you H20 Man nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
No Exit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
40. Great post!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Aimah Donating Member (598 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
41. "Tapped by God"- What does that say about Bush?
" 'He's a vile, detestable, moralistic person with no heart and no conscience who believes he's been tapped by God to do very important things,' one White House ally said, referring to Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald."
-- Thomas DeFrank & Michael McAuliff; Bush Pals rip Plame prosecutor; Daily News; 10-24-05; page 7.




The book also shows that in the lead-up to announcing his candidacy for the presidency, Bush told a Texan evangelist that he had had a premonition of some form of national disaster happening.

Bush said to James Robinson: 'I feel like God wants me to run for President. I can't explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. Something is going to happen... I know it won't be easy on me or my family, but God wants me to do it.'

I guess God told him Katrina was coming but not what to do about it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
43. A long time in coming ...
but we knew it would happen, didn't we. ;-)





As always, thank you my dear friend for your posts! :hug: :loveya: :hug:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-05 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #43
50. Hey, Merh!
Miss you around here!

Your brother,
Water Man
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-05 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #50
58. I've been lurking -- not much time to post deep posts
Well, actually, no focus to think of anything deep to post. :shrug: But, I have been paying attention and I definitely have appreciated your posts.

:hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-05 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. Well, good.
I hope things are going well for you, all things considered.

This is an amazing case. In general, it is going much as predicted in the summer of 2004. A little longer of a time-line, but things are on track.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-05 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #59
62. All things considered, I am doing well.
I have shelter, electricity and hope, which is more than I had the evening of August 29th.

Like the investigation of the evil ones who have tried to destroy all things good about our beloved nation, the rebuilding efforts here will take time and perserverance. Patience and faith are required of all concerned.

Peace to you my dear brother. :hug:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
44. Q For H20 Man.... Why the Post name "Thirteen"?
Forgive my stupidity.... but why is this post named Thirteen...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wind Dancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
45. Thanks for the words of wisdom, H20 Man!
This administration has a long history of attacking anybody that publicly disagrees with them. Ambassador Wilson has proven once again the power of one voice refusing to be silenced. He's a man with enormous strength and courage, character traits these criminals in the White House have never known.





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
46. Excellent. I agree with and want to repeat this part of your dissertation:
Our goal is not to limit the debate -- it is to encourage it. Even to provoke it. That includes aggravating, annoying, and antagonizing the opposition.

Light will bring their destruction.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
callady Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-28-05 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
48. Heads of State are helpless tools-The World depends on civil society
The Weird Men Behind George W Bush's War

By Michael Lind

04/07/03 "New Statesman (UK)" -- -- America's allies and enemies alike are baffled. What is going on in the United States? Who is making foreign policy? And what are they trying to achieve? Quasi-Marxist explanations involving big oil or American capitalism are mistaken. Yes, American oil companies and contractors will accept the spoils of the kill in Iraq. But the oil business, with its Arabist bias, did not push for this war any more than it supports the Bush administration's close alliance with Ariel Sharon. Further, President Bush and Vice-President Cheney are not genuine 'Texas oil men' but career politicians who, in between stints in public life, would have used their connections to enrich themselves as figureheads in the wheat business, if they had been residents of Kansas, or in tech companies, had they been Californians.

Equally wrong is the theory that American and European civilisation are evolving in opposite directions. The thesis of Robert Kagan, the neoconservative propagandist, that Americans are martial and Europeans pacifist, is complete nonsense. A majority of Americans voted for either Al Gore or Ralph Nader in 2000. Were it not for the over-representation of sparsely populated, right-wing states in both the presidential electoral college and the Senate, the White House and the Senate today would be controlled by Democrats, whose views and values, on everything from war to the welfare state, are very close to those of western Europeans. Both the economic-determinist theory and the clash-of-cultures theory are reassuring: they assume that the recent revolution in US foreign policy is the result of obscure but understandable forces in an orderly world. The truth is more alarming. As a result of several bizarre and unforeseeable contingencies - such as the selection rather than election of George W Bush, and 11 September - the foreign policy of the world's only global power is being made by a small clique that is unrepresentative of either the US population or the mainstream foreign policy establishment.

The core group now in charge consists of neoconservative defence intellectuals (they are called 'neoconservatives' because many of them started off as anti-Stalinist leftists or liberals before moving to the far right). Inside the government, the chief defence intellectuals include Paul Wolfowitz, the deputy secretary of defence. He is the defence mastermind of the Bush administration; Donald Rumsfeld is an elderly figurehead who holds the position of defence secretary only because Wolfowitz himself is too controversial. Others include Douglas Feith, the number three at the Pentagon; Lewis 'Scooter' Libby, a Wolfowitz protege who is Cheney's chief of staff; John R Bolton, a right-winger assigned to the State Department to keep Colin Powell in check; and Elliott Abrams, recently appointed to head Middle East policy at the National Security Council. On the outside are James Woolsey, the former CIA director, who has tried repeatedly to link both 9/11 and the anthrax letters in the US to Saddam Hussein, and Richard Perle, who has just resigned from his unpaid defence department advisory post after a lobbying scandal. Most of these 'experts' never served in the military. But their headquarters is now the civilian defence secretary's office, where these Republican political appointees are despised and distrusted by the largely Republican career soldiers.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10804.htm

The planet is owned and ruled by the same people; not the heads of State, but the owners of the capital. State governments, if unyielding to the superior power of the capitals, run the risk of becoming figureheads in the claws of the neoliberals. Do what we tell you to do or we will unmask the vacuum behind your façade. Some leaders try courageously to prove their freedom of action, up to a point, but even socialists have turned towards what is to be seen as the new socialism – Gerhard Schröder, or the New Labour – Tony Blair. There is no real ‘left’ any more --anywhere.

<snip>

The heads of state are helpless tools in the claws of the predators since their countries would suffer loss of investment and capital flight in the face of their non-cooperation. The world thus depends on civil society and the strength of the masses of lucid and humane people, the power of the streets, to defeat the colossus that is eagerly devouring the world. Corruption and greed can ultimately be defeated if we the people see the truth and act in accordance with our common sense and human instincts.

http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_19839.shtml

We should not expect a smoking gun. Even when there actually is a gun, there's hardly ever a smoking gun. In the case against Libby, as in most white-collar crime cases, the evidence is likely to consist mainly of documents, thousands of them. And considering that the weapon employed in this crime appears to be a telephone, the closest thing to a smoking gun may well be telephone records.

We should expect attempts by pundits to derive "meaning" from the absence of charges under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act or the Espionage Act. Reasons for the absence of such charges can range from insufficient evidence to concerns about the Classified Information Procedures Act, which governs the use of classified information in a criminal case. No one other than Fitzgerald, his staff, and the grand jury knows why certain charges were not brought and they will never be able to explain their decisions.

We should expect a campaign to demonize Fitzgerald through claims that he is overzealous and has exceeded his authority. Such attacks are legally irrelevant, but more important, they're wrong. Fitzgerald's original mandate, contained in a letter from Deputy Attorney General James Comey, was to investigate all crimes arising from the outing of Valerie Plame. Out of an apparent abundance of caution, Fitzgerald requested clarification of the term "all" and was advised, again by Comey, that it included both underlying crimes and crimes that stemmed from the investigation of the underlying crimes. At no time did Fitzgerald seek, or receive, an expansion of his authority: it was there all along, as it would be in any investigation of federal crimes.

http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=32241
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-05 05:24 AM
Response to Reply #48
51. Very interesting!
Thank you for posting these articles.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bslade Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-05 04:27 AM
Response to Original message
49. Re: Recently, Will Pitt shared a message from Amb. Joseph Wilson w/DU
Where is this message?

Ben in DC
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zippy890 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-05 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #49
52. can't find it
:shrug:

I'd like to read it too. Wilson's going to be on 60 minutes on Sunday.

Maybe somebody else can find that post?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-05 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. I'm looking
but am not able to locate it. Hopefully, one of the better organized DUers will have this thread, which ran about one week ago. It was a very popular thread. I think it would be beneficial to have it now for people to re-read .... because it is a call to action.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EuroObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-05 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #49
54. You missed it? Here you go:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-05 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. Thank you!
We appreciate your providing that link!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EuroObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-29-05 06:30 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. I confess
Edited on Sat Oct-29-05 07:25 AM by EuroObserver
I faxed a copy of that statement, with a brief explanation, DU link and Will's email address, to the editor (international desk) of the Guardian.

ed (quote): "All the outpouring of support has been of great comfort to us these past two years of nonstop attacks. The stakes are enormous. This is all about whether our government can take us to war on lies without any fear of being held to account, and whether our democracy can survive the coalition of fascist forces that have seized control of the levers of power.

"We are bracing for another round of attacks from the RNC. I understand that their talking points have been updated. Rapid response from you, The Democratic Underground and others will be needed and I know they and you are up to the task and I thank everybody in advance for all of your good work now and over the last years. Remember, to paraprhase Dick Cheney (no, not the "Fuck off" statement to Senator Leahy), they are in the "last throes" of desperation.

"Take care and we will talk soon. Joe"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-05 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
60. Thank you for another great post Mr. Waterman. But it should also
be highlighted the dangerous position the Wilson's are in today. Here is an excerpt from "The Observer | International |...

"At the same time, Plame's husband, former ambassador Joe Wilson, whose anti-war views are believed by many to be the reason Plame was outed, has spoken of his wife being threatened. 'There have been specific threats,' he told a television interviewer.

Wilson also attacked the Bush administration in a column in the Los Angeles Times published yesterday, saying that the White House had sought to smear him and his wife for trying to tell the truth about the abuse of intelligence on Saddam Hussein's nuclear ambitions in the run- up to the invasion of Iraq.

'The attacks on Valerie and me were upsetting, disruptive and vicious,' he said. 'They amounted to character assassination. Senior administration officials used the power of the White House to make our lives hell.'

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-30-05 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. Good point.
It is hard for people to appreciate the difficult situation that the Wilsons are in. And it is extremely dangerous. Things like the jackasses on Fox news ranting against them, and spreading ugly lies, is expected. It isn't a big deal. But the other things involved are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC