Plame's CIA status: she was covert

[EarlG]

From page 3 of the indictment:

"At all relevant times from January 1, 2002 through July 2003, Valerie Wilson was employed by the CIA, and her employment status was classified. Prior to July 14, 2003, Valerie Wilson's affiliation with the CIA was not common knowledge outside the intelligence community."

Well that knocks that right-wing talking point on the head.

[texpatriot2004]

1. So there you have it eh. nm

[VolcanoJen]

2. Then why no conviction on the Espionage Act?

Is it because Fitz couldn't prove they knew her covert status at the time they leaked it?

[Tatiana]

5. Is he angling for a bigger fish to indict under the the Espionage Act? n/t

[yodermon]

7. fitz is not done yet.

wait for his 2pm press conf.

[BR_Parkway]

24. Agreed - there's still exposure of CIA agent AND unauthorized disclosure

of classified info to unauthorized persons.

The press conference should be announcing much more, I'm thinking. Fitz has played this all perfectly so far, I have confidence he knows exactly what he's doing.

Might already have a plea deal worked out with Libby, announce indictments against him at 12, then announce the plea and more charges against others at 2!

[savemefromdumbya]

9. but they haven't found who actually leaked

Not Libby?

[rateyes]

27. That would not matter...

if it's classified, it's classified, and can't be shared with unauthorized individuals...and, even if an unauthorized individual gets it and shares it, that person is guilty of espionage as well...I'll bet there is more to come, and that Libby has accepted a plea bargain to testify against the other rats...25 years in prison, which he could get, doesn't sit too well with people like Libby...he's gonna sing like a canary, IMHO.

[centristo]

30. they obviously knew she was CIA

but yes, I think it is not clear whether or not they knew she was covert. It would be difficult to prove in any event...

[MADem]

50. I suspect that they are parsing, for now

Divulge classified information, that is a crime, but not espionage.

Espionage is an "off with your head" offense. Perhaps they want to get the person or persons that Scooter is taking the fall for.

Scooter was only a tool...find the hand, or hands, that USED that tool!

[stop the bleeding]

3. Thank you

and screw those right wing talking points.

[savemefromdumbya]

14. it would be useful to call in to the TV networks such as Fox, CNN if they

If the right wingers do their usual spin on this we need to call in and out them straight on this

[Coexist]

4. k&r

well, now will they please shut up about it?

[crispini]

8. Exactly. To hear them talk you would have thought

everyone in Washington knew. :eyes:

[Kadie]

16. what does k&r mean?

I am missing something... :shrug:

[Coexist]

19. kicked and recommended - I can't type anymore!

but yet - I will.

[Kadie]

20. ahh, Thanks! n/t

[H2O Man]

6. Yep.

It really ends that little debate.

[LincolnMcGrath]

10. K & R

:bounce: for lurking neocon - deathcult - freepers :bounce:

[Crazy Guggenheim]

11. Also I think ABC News said that no info on covert staus can be

released within five years of the agent's covert status.

[indigo32]

12. Well that excuse is out the door

[Lone_Star_Dem]

13. And I plan on using that to knock a few right-wingers on the head

Take that you dumb butts! :)

[jillan]

15. Randi Rhodes was adamant about that

Randi kept screaming that Valerie was posing as a business woman monitoring the amount of uranium leaving Niger.

God bless Randi Rhodes.

And may these right wing hacks keep shooting themselves in the foot.

[spunky]

17. Lindsey Graham said last night on Larry King that charges of violation

of Espionage Act would be bad for the Country. It would mean people in DC could no longer talk openly with one another. :eyes:

[ClassWarrior]

25. And we all know that Little Lindsey never talks out of his ass.

:sarcasm:

NGU.

[Gregorian]

18. Ouch.

They knew. (That's the key phrase for this administration.)

[nomatrix]

21. Joe Wilson "Politics of Truth"

will go off the charts, can we buy stock in it.

Celebrate folks! Watch all the talking heads scramble to to discredit Wilson.
News conference is less than 40 minutes.

[Seen the light]

22. Freeper response: There's a difference between being classified and covert

I'm not knowledgeable about these legal things, can anybody tell me if that has any merit?

[Cults4Bush]

28. She was both... her status was classified because she was covert.

She was an asset uncompromised until the outing as was Brewster Jennings her Operation.

The outing as quoted from the reslease put assets in danger. Anyone who supports that kind of "political hardball" is a fascist through and through.

[belle]

44. Oh for crying out loud. No, she was covert just for the hell of it.

Certainly no big deal to out a covert agent! Why would that have been classified information, necessarily? She was just one of those covert HOBBYISTS.

freepers, you collective :dunce:.

[peacetalksforall]

23. Ohh Victoria! Ohh Joe! You smucks. How many times have you

appeared on TV to tell us that she was NOT covert - how many months have you been leaving your office and home to put your face in front of the camera to lie to us? You self-sacred despicable lawyers. Arrogant lying lawyers.

Victoria Toensing.
Joe De Genova.

Washington lawyers who lie on worldwide TV.

[Cults4Bush]

29. Write them! I have. I will again now as well. Though they never respond.

[flyarm]

45. well joe would know..since victoria wrote the law of outing

a cia agent and she made it almost impossible to convict anyone of it!

fly

[Jara sang]

26. Does this mean that she worked overseas in that capacity?

Or is that irrelevant? I thought that she had to have worked overseas as a covert agent.

[wrathofkahn]

31. Ummm... not to be a party-pooper, but

"Classified" and "covert" are two different things.

There are lots of folks at Langly whose positions are "classified." The fellow who maintains the server has a position which is "classified," because he's in contact with sensitive intelligence information. Folks who work at Los Alamos have positions which are "classified," because they are in contact with high-level nuclear material and data. Neither of these people are "covert."

[H2O Man]

32. But Plame was. n/t

[wrathofkahn]

35. The point was...

This particular passage doesn't prove that she was covert. Using this as "proof" will just blow up in the user's face.

[H2O Man]

38. I don't think

that the case is blowing up in anyone but the administration's face.

[Coexist]

40. Apparently, Covert is a person, and Classified is information:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/stories/2005/07/19/ciaLawsAndDefinitions.html
<snip>
§ 426. Definitions

For the purposes of this subchapter:

(1) The term "classified information" means information or material designated and clearly marked or clearly represented, pursuant to the provisions of a statute or Executive order (or a regulation or order issued pursuant to a statute or Executive order), as requiring a specific degree of protection against unauthorized disclosure for reasons of national security.

<snip>

(4) The term "covert agent" means-

(A) a present or retired officer or employee of an intelligence agency or a present or retired member of the Armed Forces assigned to duty with an intelligence agency-

(i) whose identity as such an officer, employee, or member is classified information, and

[belle]

46. Well, I'm sure Scooter's lawyer will be thrilled to have your input.

Thanks for your concern, though!

[flyarm]

49. bullshit..you must not have listened to what fitz said!! that outing

valerie was a danger to all of us ..and that it was a danger to all of our national security@...and he said no one could misconstrue that!!

fly

[Zynx]

34. The key finding is that her status was NOT known outside the CIA.

[Coexist]

36. thats okay, the semantics miss the meat of the matter:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/09/30/wilson.cia/

<snip>
Sources told CNN that Plame works in the CIA's Directorate of Operations -- the part of the agency in charge of spying -- and worked in the field for many years as an undercover officer.

"If she were only an analyst, not an operative, we would not have filed a crimes report" with the Justice Department, a senior intelligence official said

[flyarm]

48. one of the reporters asked fitz if valerie was covert and he said he

could not answer that..so bullshit is bullshit..the laws protect a cia agent..and that is basically what he said..he said no one could spin it..

so again bullshit is bullshit..no one had the right to out her..he said it hurt all americans for anyone to out a cia agent and was dangerous to our national security...

there is no way to spin that..fitz was very clear about that....so any freepers or rethugs who want to spin that, may i suggest you get fitz's transcript and stick it up the bullshitters asses!

fly

[Zynx]

33. Case closed. Right-wingers have been lying on national TV. It's official.

FUCK YOU HANNITY! FUCK YOU JOHN FUND! FUCK YOU FOXNEWS(ALL OF THEM)! FUCK YOU CLIFF MAY! FUCK YOU WOLF BLITZER!

[Metta]

37. Claiming they didn't know is negligence. They're too smart not to check.

Lies, lies and more lies.

[Roland99]

39. A Grand Jury has decided so!

[MelissaB]

41. Odd, I just heard it repeated again by Hatch on CNN.

They keep repeating the same lies.

[Shrek]

42. Fitzgerald said differently in the press conference

From the transcript:

QUESTION: Can you say whether or not you know whether Mr. Libby knew that Valerie Wilson's identity was covert and whether or not that was pivotal at all in your inability or your decision not to charge under the Intelligence Identity Protection Act?

FITZGERALD: Let me say two things. Number one, I am not speaking to whether or not Valerie Wilson was covert. And anything I say is not intended to say anything beyond this: that she was a CIA officer from January 1st, 2002, forward.

I will confirm that her association with the CIA was classified at that time through July 2003. And all I'll say is that, look, we have not made any allegation that Mr. Libby knowingly, intentionally outed a covert agent.


FITZGERALD: We have not charged that. And so I'm not making that assertion.

He's only confirming that she worked for the CIA, and he seems to go out of his way to say that he is not claiming she was covert.

I don't know what to make of it.

[belle]

47. He just seems very closed-mouthed in general, which is fine.

I'm thinking he knows damn well anything he says can and will be used against his case, so unless it's 100% confirmed, he's not saying anything. It's what you'd expect out of a professional...which is why we're so unused to it, considering what we've been exposed to these past years.

[KFC]

54. Well Put

This guy is so professional and focused - that is why the admin is scared of him.

[MADem]

51. All he is saying, FOR NOW, is that Classified Material WAS Divulged

...and that is a no-no.

My sense is that he is using Scooter to bait a bigger trap. If they have enough in terms of evidence and witnesses to nail Scooter, it is likely that they have enough to get the guy or guys giving Scooter his guidance and marching orders.

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

43. Yes, Prezznit Butch called this matter "serious.' I call it HUGH!

It's not over, Junior. It's not over.



:patriot:

[Garbo 2004]

52. Libby, Cheney knew Wilson worked in Operations...spooksville.

From Talkingpointsmemo.com:

Go to page 5 of the indictment. Top of the page, item #9.

"On or about June 12, 2003, LIBBY was advised by the Vice President of the United States that Wilson's wife worked at the Central Intelligence Agency in the Counterproliferation Divison. LIBBY understood that the Vice President had learned this information from the CIA."

This is a crucial piece of information. The Counterproliferation Division (CPD) is part of the CIA's Directorate of Operations, i.e., not the Directorate of Intelligence, the branch of the CIA where 'analysts' come from, but the DO, where the spies, the 'operatives', come from.

Libby's a long time national security hand. He knows exactly what CPD is and where it is. So does Cheney. They both knew. It's right there in the indictment. http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/006881.php

And yet when Libby later talks to Miller he reportedly tells her Wilson's wife worked at WINPAC (Directorate of Intelligence). Poor Libby, he was confused, that's all.

[PatriotGames]

53. Thanks for clarifying that for me. I did not know what her status was...

although I suspected she was covert.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

55. And don't forget that Fitzgerald said "Valerie Wilson's cover was blown"

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/28/politics/28text-fitz.html?pagewanted=all

Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer. In July 2003, the fact that Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer was classified. Not only was it classified, but it was not widely known outside the intelligence community.


Valerie Wilson's friends, neighbors, college classmates had no idea she had another life.

The fact that she was a CIA officer was not well- known, for her protection or for the benefit of all us. It's important that a CIA officer's identity be protected, that it be protected not just for the officer, but for the nation's security.


Valerie Wilson's cover was blown in July 2003. The first sign of that cover being blown was when Mr. Novak published a column on July 14th, 2003.

[countryjake]

56. We'll need to memorize those two sentences!

What's already showing up in the new smears being leveled at the Wilsons today is that some obviously don't have a clear understanding of the term "classified". Even people on here are spewing it!

Read that Indictment, people!