It's over: Libby is the Fall Guy / No one else will be Indicted

[Broken Acorn]

No Rove, No Cheney and especially no Chimpy.

I'll take it because it's finally official that the WH is corrupt, but it could have been much bigger.

[VolcanoJen]

1. Fitzgerald said no such thing.

He says he can't go beyond the four corners of this indictment.

He can't comment further because those parties aren't named in the indictment (Official A, for example).

He says don't read too much into his "no comment."

I don't think it's over at all.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

42. I agree. There'll be another Grand Jury available.

Think of what we had learned previously from Fitzpatrick, really nothing.

So I am not assuming it is all over.

Given the laws and rules he outlined, he couldn't tell us anything if it were ongoing.

[deutsey]

2. That doesn't seem to be what other DU'ers are saying

The investigation is continuing and Rove is squealing like a pig to avoid being indicted himself.

[HannibalBarca]

43. ...

..He is a pig, squealing comes naturally.

[Arkana]

3. That's just the thing. It's not.

Fitz still has questions. He wants to know--who told Libby to leak?

[apnu]

13. Cheney did, according to the indictment

Page 5, number 9 of the indictment:

"On or about June 12, 2003, LIBBY was advised by the Vice President of the United States that Wilson’s wife worked at the Central Intelligence Agency in the Counterproliferation Division. LIBBY understood that the Vice President had learned this information from the CIA."

[Lone_Star_Dem]

24. Which brings up the question of if his intentions were malicious or not

Which bring us to an investigation that is not yet over. :)

[apnu]

35. yup

:think:

[tridim]

4. It's NOT over, by a long shot

Where did you get that idea?

[Long Time Lurker]

5. Don't underestimate this

It's very big.

[Demobrat]

Huh?

And so....Fitzgerald is extending the investigation because.....

[Pacifist Patriot]

6. No offense, but...Shut Up!

;)

I refuse to believe it. I'm going with "tip of the iceberg."

[Loonman]

7. Where's your crystal ball buddy?

You fucking Kreskin?

[Orrex]

15. That's between him and Kreskin

But I likewise wonder what leads him to his conclusion...

[Midlodemocrat]

8. Completely not over. I still expect more indictments.

I still expect ROve to be indicted. I think Cheney will resign for health reasons.

Not over by a long shot.

[Arkana]

29. Now when you say health reasons, you mean "health reasons," right?

[Loonman]

9. x

x

[Broken Acorn]

10. I hope you all are right

But I have gotten down in the past with the Election Fraud of 2004 and the DSM or rather nothing that came of it.

The WH is a bunch of liars and crooks and they'll do anything to save their ass. Libby IS the fall guy; this was probably decided long ago.

I just don't want my fellow DU'ers to get their hopes up for any more than this.

[toska]

16. The big charge is still out there

Karl Rove would have been indicted if he wasn't singing, and you don't need Rove's testimony to prove that Libby lied. Add in the rumors that state department and NSA officials are cooperating, there's a bigger fish out there.

My guess is that Libby should count himself lucky if this is all he gets charged with, but in my reading of the tea leaves, its not over. Espionage and Conspiracy are still on the table and Cheney is the target. Depending on how the media and public reacts, we could see Cheney resigning in the near future.

[Broken Acorn]

22. toska, I hope you are right

But Fitz said that the investigation is done.

I wouldn't put too much faith in rumors, especially ones by Rawstory or other outlets that claimed 22 indictments were in place.

Also, what happened to the 'sealed indictments'?

I am VERY HAPPY that Libby is going to jail, but I'm not going to get my hopes up anymore that Cheney, Rover or Chimpy are going down.

I didn't mean to rain on a great day here :)

[Spazito]

46. Actually, he did NOT say the investigation was done

He said MOST of the work has been done, if new evidence appears they will be investigated and there is a new standing grand jury to receive any new evidence.

It is very clear this is not over and, don't forget, there will be a trial if Libby doesn't turn states evidence and rat on others.

[Bjornsdotter]

11. Study history..

....not everyone falls on the first day. Look at Watergate, it was a slow process....this is not over.

Cheers!

[malaise]

18. My exact thought and I followed

Watergate

[tx_dem41]

12. Sheesh...talk about a Chicken Little...

You're not good at listening and reading are you? Sorry to be harsh, but such dramatic overstatements have to be met that way.

[Devil Dog Dem]

14. I agree.

Rove skated. I fear in the end this will add to his reputation.

[leveymg]

17. Only Libby knows what Cheney told him to do in early 2003.

The threat of 30 years is a lot of leverage on Scooter. Cheney is the target. Libby is the tool to get him.

As for Rove, he could be facing almost as much time if he stops cooperating in ratting the others. I doubt if Karl told Dubya much of any real consequence. That is the reason, after all, why Dubya was selected to be President. He doesn't want to know anything.

[Broken Acorn]

26. We don't know ANYTHING about Rove

Rove did (not) cooperate with Fitz.
Rove is (not) plea bargaining.
Fitz is done with the investigation.

Only the 3rd statement is true.

Rove is free and clear as far as I'm concerned.

If he does go down, I'll be as happy as everyone else in here.

[longship]

19. Why don't you try paying attention instead of spewing crap?

nt

[LittleClarkie]

20. That may be it for THIS GJ, but it appears there will be another

it had been said before that this GJ couldn't be extended any more. So they will seek another.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

21. He's prosecuting Libby for being a loose cannon

He's not charging him with the underlying crimes of violating the Espionage Act or the Intelligence Identities Protection Act because those types of crimes require proof of knowledge and intent. The lip service given to the fact that Libby harmed national security is irrelevant. Libby could have lied to Patrick Fitzgerald about what he ate for lunch and it would have constituted the same type of crime: lying to investigators and lying under oath. I'm disappointed.

[Just Me]

30. He's prosecuting Libby for concealing the truth about a matter of,....

,...national security. Fitz is still seeking the truth.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

39. No he's not - he's prosecuting Libby for lying and obstruction of justice

It has nothing to do with national security. It could have been lying and obstruction of justice about financial matters, embezzlement of government funds or any number of other matters relating to Libby's official position. There is no special statute under perjury that specializes the type of lying and obstruction of justice connected to matters of national security. Perjury is perjury and obstruction of justice is obstruction of justice. I'm disappointed that the entire context of this perjury and obstruction of justice will not be explored and that the motives for this lying and obstruction of justice will not be brought to light.

[0007]

23. You're being silly!

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Did yuo watch the press conference?

My god Watergate was not built in a single day either

[Mr_Spock]

27. OK, you're right.

Maybe :eyes:

[MrSlayer]

28. Fitz just addressed that question. It is not over.

This particular grand jury's time is up, that's all.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

34. He didn't exactly say that, either

He merely said that if, and a big IF he needed another Grand Jury tha one would be routinely available. I didn't like the way he handled questions regarding whether the Espionage Act or the Intelligence Identities Protection Act were violated. He's being very conservative in saying that prosecutions under those acts are very difficult. He said the bulk of his investigation is finished. Most prosecutors are very aggressive and tend to overcharge. They take the opportunity to throw in every possible charge that could reasonably be made against a defendant. Fitzgerald doesn't seem to be doing this here.

[porphyrian]

31. Horseshit. This is only the beginning.

Tell yourself whatever you want, though.

[Don Claybrook]

32. I think you've missed the point entirely

It's possible you're right, but not very likely.

Just imagine that you're an evil SOB and you work for an even more evil SOB....

Mr. Acorn, you are facing 30 years in a federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison. You are 60-someodd years old.

Do you wish to cooperate or do you wish for the rest of the only existence you've ever known to be spent in prison. Sure, Cheney may send you a fruitcake once in awhile, but for all intents and purposes, you have outlived your usefulness and he'll let you rot in prison alone.

Still don't feel like talking? I'll bet you do.

[Broken Acorn]

38. Claybrook, I agree with your outlook

But Fitz stated that he's done investigating.

He can't prove he leaked the case. He also stated that Cheney was one of 4 officials that provided Plame's name to Libby. And, he explicitly stated that Cheney had every legal right to discuss CIA personnel with Libby.

I have/am still watching the entire press conference.

This is different from Watergate in the fact that Fitz is not going after the WH. He's only going after who leaked and he said that he's done investigating.

Did he not say that the investigation is over as well as the Cheney remarks being legal?

Everyone has different opinions, but I feel like he was very clear on both those statements.

[MissMillie]

33. Just a thought here, but....

When Clinton was under investigation for Whitewater, the investigation when from a real estate deal in Arkansas to an affair held in the White House years later. I don't think Clinton even knew Monica during the time that the events of Whitewater took place, but there ya have it.

THIS investigation, unlike Ken Starr's, has a much more direct line of inquiry. Wilson's wife was "outed" because Wilson dared to question this administration on it's push to war. Plain and simple. The investigation should be continued until we find out just what the administration knew about WMDs (not this lame "we had bad intelligence" crap they've been feeding us). We should know what evidence was ignored. We should know what "evidence" was fabricated.

In a speech mandated by the Consitution, * stood up in front of Congress and lied. If that's not a federal offense, it should be. He was required to report on the State of the Union, and he LIED.

If ever there were a case to bring on an Independent Counsel, this is it. Certainly far more important than finding out who Clinton was screwing and when.

[Broken Acorn]

41. But Fitz doesn't have the power to go after Chimpy and his lies

He already said this in his press conference, more or less.

[MissMillie]

45. But w/ Americans now finally questioning the administration

instead of just giving * a free pass, congress may have to step in and point an Independent Counsel.

Of course, it would have been much easier if Congress had been more critical of the administration before giving it a free pass to send our soldiers into harms way.

No one wanted to question a popular president.

But now that we know what he was up to, he's not so popular now. And appointing an Independent Counsel may be what saves some of the seats in Congess for the GOP. Countering Bush is the only way the GOP maintains control of Congress in 2006.

[BrotherBuzz]

36. Odd, are we reading the same book? I just started chapter two!

it started off a little slow, but it's getting better and is proving to be a real page turner...

[RebelOne]

37. I think that at the end of all of this that Libby will walk

smelling like a rose.

[Marr]

44. Maybe so. If the trial doesn't even get underway for another

6 months or so, and goes on for who knows how long... Bush may be able to pardon him on his way out of the WH with Libby never seeing the inside of a jail cell at all.

His dad did something similar, after all, and was barely criticized for it publicly.

[eggman67]

47. This is pretty much how I see it. n/t

[Marr]

40. I tend to agree. No offense to other DU'ers, but in my opinion, any

expectations of Cheney being indicted are just wishful thinking. Fitzgerald pointed out a couple of times in his press conference that's there's nothing illegal about one government official communicating classified information to another government official, so long as they both have the clearance to receive that information.

So Libby is the only one going down. He was the stooge who actually committed the crime. I've no doubt that Cheney told him to do it, but how are you going to prove that?

Fitzgerald seems like a real pro. While I was hoping for something a little more far-reaching, I have to say he seems like he conducted his investigation very fairly and professionally.

[goodhue]

48. I agree no one else will likely be indicted, but it is not over

There will be a plea or a trial.

[mmonk]

49. If found guilty

he then can tell the truth. If he doesn't want to go to jail, he can tell the truth.