hatch: LIBBY MUST BE PRESUMED INNOCENT!!!!

[leftchick]

omg... what an ass. He is spending way more time on CNN going on and on trashing Joe Wilson and saying scooter is the greatest! BUT Scooter MUST be considered innocent while Joe Wilson is Guilty of what I am not sure...


BLECH!

[xultar]

1. He's right though on the presumend innocent part. Come on...u know that

on the rest of the shit he said he's an asshole fucktard

[LoZoccolo]

5. I agree; let's not succumb to insanity.

We're Americans and that's what we believe here. This thing will play itself out regardless of whether we speak too soon.

[leftchick]

7. I know

I edited for clarification. The neo-freaks emphasize the innocence until proven guilty for one of their own and demonize the victims. Typical repukes asshats.

:grr:

[xultar]

13. True. They called them on it on CNN though earlier today.

[Strawman]

2. It's like Noelle Bush getting busted with drugs

it's so much different when it's their boy.

[Coexist]

3. He slipped and said, "I hope they can't prove that he lied"

wouldn't that assume that he did lie? and that Hatch hopes they don't catch him in that lie?

Ha ha ha!!!!

[xultar]

9. That isn't a slip. Of course he wouldn't want them to be able to prove it

[Igel]

16. That's all that's legally required.

The other way of saying it, "I hope he can prove he didn't lie" moves the burden of proof to where the legal system doesn't place it and would be inappropriate in context. That leaves "I hope they can't prove he lied".

The parallel "I hope she can't prove there are unicorns" doesn't assert or assume the existence of unicorns. I think it merely entertains the possibility they exist, and I'm not sure it even rises to the level of a presumption.

[Inland]

4. Oh, Scooter will get his trial, all right. Don't worry, Orrin

He'll get all the trial by jury he can stomach.

[TomInTib]

6. That is the law of the land and Hatch is entitled to his opinion

That said, Fuck Orrin Hatch.
Always has been and always will be an ass.

[lovuian]

8. Then why is he resigning and INDICTED

:bounce:

[leftchick]

11. well I recognize the innocent until proven guilty

I hate how he contrasted with WILSON BEING A LIAR! Bullshit!

[Igel]

20. "Indicted" doesn't presume guilt.

Far from it. The GJ has said that at least 12 out of 23 of them believe that there's sufficient evidence to press charges and take Libby to court, where another jury will hear the evidence, and the defense, and then render a judgment as to guilt.

Resigning I take to be a political act; one can believe Libby's guilty without respect to any trial. A lot of people assume that nobody innocent would ever be charged and tried. They're entitled to their assumptions--unless, of course, they're Libby's judge or on his jury. Even then, there's a case for saying they're still entitled to their assumptions, if you like the idea of jury nullification.

The indictments against former Dem. governor of Alabama Siegelman and Tom Delay are also likely to hurt them if they run again, for the same reason. Politics isn't about legal guilt, or frequently even about facts.

[H2O Man]

10. Sad ....

but not unexpected.

[rock]

12. Under the Law, yes, but

I can have my own opinion, and I think he's as guilty as sin. Hatch is quoting a legal rule. As a private citizen I can prejudge all I want!

[Jersey Devil]

14. Yes, and after that presumption is gone by a guilty verdict

Let's frog walk him!

[helderheid]

15. DONATE TO HATCH'S OPPONENT! Pete Ashdown is a GREAT guy!

https://pashdown.org/contribute/

[porphyrian]

17. Orrin Hatch is a piece of shit.

Who cares what shit thinks?

[Bridget Burke]

18. Of course--in a court of law.

Out here in the Peanut Gallery--anything goes.

Let's remember how the Republicans & the MSM treated President Clinton.

[Marr]

19. In court, yes. I assume the fucker is guilty, personally.