Libby case will never go to trial.....

[JPK]

I don't think the WH will let this thing get into a court of law in front of a jury. Too many important people would be called to testify under oath and don't even think the WH wants that. This is going to quietly go away I fear. Libby will fall on his sword for the WH and plead guilty. PF will cut a deal for a guilty plea and Scooter will scoot to the pokey or have to wear some leg jewelry for a while. It will fade from the front pages.

[LaurenG]

1. Who knows, once Fitz blows the

lid off the WH.

[clydefrand]

2. I think you're wrong. There will be others indicted.

[brentspeak]

11. There won't be any more indictments

Fitzgerald said that his investigation is pretty much concluded. It's a commonplace formality to call another grand jury to tie up any loose ends re.Libby's case.

[goodboy]

47. WRONG! He said, 1. " OK, is the investigation finished? It's NOT OVER,

but I'll tell you this: Very rarely do you bring a charge in a case that's going to be tried and would you ever end a grand jury investigation.

2. I can tell you, the substantial bulk of the work in this investigation is concluded.

3. This grand jury's term has expired by statute; it could not be extended. But it's in ordinary course to keep a grand jury open to consider other matters, and that's what we will be doing."

4. I will not end the investigation until I can look anyone in the eye and tell them that we have carried out our responsibility sufficiently to be sure that we've done what we could to make intelligent decisions about when to end the investigation. We hope to do that as soon as possible. I just hope that people will take a deep breath and just allow us to continue to do what we have to do.

QUESTION: Can you give us any sense of how you think you might and how long it might take you now to determine if there was this underlying crime that occurred dealing with alleged unauthorized disclosure?

Fitzgrerald: I can't and I wouldn't. And if I predicted two years ago when it started when it would be done, I would have been done a year ago.

FITZGERALD: So all I can tell you is as soon as we can get it done, we will.


AND NOW, THE BIG ONE!!!

Fitzgerald: And I'll probably just say -- I'll repeat it so I don't misstep and give you anything more than I should.


In these comments, he says repeatedly that this will continue. period. This is the guy who indicted Bin Laden, a member of the Gambina Crime family. The Al-Qaeda terroists who bombed the WTC in 1993 and the terrorists who blew up Lockerbie Scotland.


This is just the tip of the iceburg.

Pat is just getting warmed up.

[LincolnMcGrath]

60. You might want to confer with George Ryan about that.

His case started almost 8 years ago.

[caledesi]

25. Agree. This is only the beginning. Fitz is as thorough as they come

and it doesn't make any difference how long it takes.

[ScreamingMeemie]

3. It's not up to the White House to "let" it get into court. Not their

decision to make. Read up on your govenment. :hi:

Sure as there are gator farms in Florida I believe it will. :hi:

[On the Road]

4. Yes, But if Libby Pleads Guilty

doesn't that cut short the trial? The proceedings would at least be greatly abbreviated if he doesn't contest the charges.

[ScreamingMeemie]

5. Too many others are involved for there to be a plea deal now. I think

the only way he would get a deal is to hand over the goods on somebody even higher up than he...and that would still keep the foot on the neck of the administration.

[hang a left]

49. He can plead guilty. My guess that the minimum time that he

would get, given his official status at the time of the crime, and the seriousness of the underlying offense would be 10 years. I have no doubt that he will be pardoned by *. So figure he would spend 2 years until he was released. But, I don't think that these charges leveled today will be the end of Libby's troubles. I expect that there will be more charges added. Remember he has Rove's nuts in a vice.

[jayctravis]

58. Guilty to obstruction and perjury...

which are sideline crimes to the breach of national security...which Fitz hasn't necessarily concluded yet.

But I might bet that's what he'd like everyone to think. "Go about your business...nothing to see here..."

[JPK]

6. I believe.....

....the WH will covertly order Libby to plead guilty. If he pleads guilty = no trial. Done deal. What would PF do then? Slap on the wrist, maybe some jail time but certainly no trial.

[Zen Democrat]

20. No way. Scooter would be pleading guilty to covering up for somebody.

That's not going to happen.

[jayctravis]

59. Fitz emphasized that even though Scooter wasn't nailed

for the *real* crime, he certainly could go to jail the same as if he had been. That's what the right set precedent for with Clinton - the perjury they tried to charge him with came about as a result of their investigation.

Clinton had a lil family crisis and they blew it up into a crime against humanity. WHIG committed a crime against humanity and the RW pundits neep about "I hope they don't try to get him on some type of perjury technicality..."

schadenfreude...oooo oooooh.

[Walt Starr]

7. I disagree

[Shipwack]

8. If it doesn't get to court, it will not be...

...because of the prosecutor. I think he has enough evidence to convict, and doesn't -need- to cut a deal.

Now, if Libby promises to sing like a bird with information not yet available, then maybe... but I wouldn't bet on that scenario.

[JPK]

9. Re: Libby

So even if Libby pleads guilty on all counts PF is still going to go to court???? For what? What deal would need to be made then? The indictment's are only for lying, etc.. What would PF take to court? Doesn't make any sense to me. I'm not a lawyer but it would seem to me if he pleads guilty on all counts there will be no trial.

[Der Blaue Engel]

43. The indictments are "only" for lying?

Fitzgerald made it quite clear that this is a very serious indictment and should not be considered as somehow not a big deal.

[Shipwack]

45. No, that's not what I said...

I said that Libby can't -bargain- to get a better deal. Sure, he could plead guilty right off the bat, accepting his guilt on all counts.

Then we go to the sentencing phase. Where the prosecutor -still- lays out a case for how serious the crime was.

But I claim that Libby lawyer's are not going to be able to call and plea bargain down to one count with 6 months of time in Club Fed. He doesn't have that kind of leverage... unless he rolls over and gives up critical information on people above him.

Furthermore, even if a magic wand appeared and this whole case against Libby disappeared tomorrow, there is still more to come. At the very least, Fitzgerald hasn't ruled out indicting Rove.

[ultraist]

10. Interesting

Another newbie trying deflate what happened today.

:popcorn:

[helderheid]

12. FACINATING! :)

[JPK]

14. Hey.....

I may not have posted very much here but I have been coming to DU for quite a while. I'm one of the few Blue Dems here in NE Fla and I have never in the past and never will vote for ANY Repuke.....never!

I would have loved to see this go right into the oval office....where no doubt it truly goes but the reality of the facts are if scooter pleads guilty there will be no trial. We can only hope PF has some more stuff up his sleeve and just isn't will to show his hand right now.

[TheWatcher]

64. Nice Try.

But it's been done better and far more creatively.

Amateur Night.

[Lochloosa]

65. Welcome to DU

there are some people here that just jump at the chance to call out a freeper.....even without proof. I take you at your word.

Where are you in Jax....San Jose area here.

[displacedtexan]

21. Hungry?

[OzarkDem]

37. Seems to be a lot of that

[Solomon]

46. Well I'm not a newbie and I agree with him. I posted the same thing

yesterday. Libby will plead guilty or no contest. Case over. No more to see. Move on.

He won't get thirty years, but if he does it would be a mistake because then no one (but us) would blame Bush for giving him a pardon.

It's pretty much done folks. You say we should be very happy getting Libby - then be happy about it. But don't get mad a people who say this is all we're going to get.

[cassiepriam]

13. Libby, WH do not want to go to trial. He will make a deal.

Wonder how much the WH will pay him for being the patsy?
I am sure all his legal fees will be paid for by bushco pals?
And some nice bucks put away for him somewhere.

[JPK]

15. Libby....

No doubt you are right on that.

[JPK]

16. Libby....

They'll get him a job at Exxon/Mobil as an oil explorer looking for the next gusher on the french riviera.

[cassiepriam]

17. Rove pays his girlfriend a cool million a year, guess the guy

who takes the sword for Cheney and Bush will get at least that.

[JPK]

18. One thing is a certainty......

He will be rewarded very well for his "devotion and loyalty".

[cassiepriam]

19. no doubt in my mind at all.

[Jose Diablo]

22. Why should the prosecutor agree to a plea bargain

Scooters looking at 30 years, I'd say Fitz has the goods or the GJ wouldn't have indicted. Fact is, I speculate that Fitz is pretty sure Scooters the one that deserves an espionage act prosecution and the 30 years he gets for 'just' the 5 counts he is now charged with IS a bargain for scooter.

The only choice Scooter has to to to jail for, let me see 30 year-10 years off for good behavior, I'd Scooter is looking at 20 years. This gets him to an age of 80.

Now if Fitz does allow a plea bargain, it could only be for a bigger fish, and who's bigger that Scooter?

Fitz won today, and so did we and our country. This will bring down the WH, the neocons and with the other corruption cases under the spotlight, I'd say the worst of the Republicans are just about done.

Give it a little time, this deal will make Watergate look like kids stealing bubble gum.

[JPK]

26. If Libby pleads guilty.....

What deal is there to cut? Libby will be guilty and sentenced, PF will have no alternative but to accept the guilty plea. Libby goes to jail for a while....maybe pardoned by the prez. PF has his "win" and everyone goes home. When Libby gets out he's taken care of by the RNC for the rest of his life for taking one for the gipper.

[Jose Diablo]

28. Pardoned by the Prez?

Don't think so. Bu$h will be lucky to last out his term as it is. His own party is turning on him. I doubt Junior will be able to pardon a janitor for boosting some 'Tidy Bowl' when the dust clears on all this stuff. As for a successor giving Scooter a pardon that was not privy to the original deal, who would want a blotch like that on their record.

Scooter knows, he knows he is finished. He knows he cannot depend on a pardon, and if he pleads guilty to protect Cheney or Bu$h all that will happen is Scooter himself will remain behind bars for the rest of his life. Scooter knows there will be no pardon, no matter what people promise him. He doesn't seem like the type of person that makes deals that can do him no good.

Time will tell. Lets just watch this play out. Scooter will rat the rest of them out. Scooter is nobody's punk, or fool, especially when it was Cheney and Bu$h that ordered Scooter to out Plame. We know this, and so does Fitz. He just cannot prove it at this time.

People in Bu$h's administration do not do anything unless it's authorized from the top. This is how these people operate. Scooter doesn't make decisions. They say, he does. He's a gum shoe, an operator, not management.

[digno dave]

29. Why do people keep saying * will "be lucky" to fullfill term? what, a

republican congress will impeach him,,,please. Keeping dreaming, waiting for another Fitzmas.

[Selatius]

31. Only Congress can remove the president prematurely

And the first step is impeachment, and that probably won't happen with Republicans in control.

[Jose Diablo]

35. You know, Nixon had until 1976 to be president but be quit

Now why did he do that. It was the republicans that visited Nixon and convinced them it was the best thing to do.

And they did do this not because Nixon would have been removed from office, even then removing a president couldn't have happened if the Republicans stuck together in the Senate. They wanted him to leave because IF he stayed, he would have brought down the party. That is why he left, for the good of the party. For if it had come-out the extent of the corruption within government existing at that time, both party's would have been flushed.

It's the same way today. The legislature will invite Mr. Bu$h to take an extended vacation, unpaid. For if they do not qwell the anger that is well developed within the people, it is they, the legislature that will feel the wrath.

Bu$h will leave.

[digno dave]

40. what "people" are you talking about?

different day and time. budsh has FOX NEWS and radio t okeep him aflaot until his last days in 2008. I'm afraid we are stuck wit hthe fella.

[Jose Diablo]

48. Ward and June Cleaver n/t

[sofa king]

42. Bush might leave, but not before he pardons everyone.

Think of what Scooter and Karl are holding over the President's head if he doesn't deliver. They're a criminal conspiracy, bound by blood. None holds a particular advantage over the other right now, but every last one has the ability to sink the lot of 'em.

Only the President can pardon them, so he'll get what he wants, which is a complete term if possible. But the moment one of the other conspirators faces the real prospect of setting arse down on a cold concrete bench bed, the President has to call it a day, pardon everyone, and leave--or stay behind to go down fighting alone.

That's the only way they all get out of it unscathed. That's what they'll do.

[fujiyama]

62. Yeah

and these people don't realize that Libby closest buddy would be in power otherwise?

Are they dreaming? Smoking some very potent pot (I'd like to know where to get it?!)?

Libby will be the "Mark Rich" of Bush's scandals (I'm not meaning to compare the seriousness in the crimes, just the publicity), because in the end, whatever Bush does (or Cheney if for some miracle Bush is out of office before then) right before leaving office won't matter at all. The perfect period is between November and January where you're a lame duck. You can pardon some very scummy people in that period.

I think in the end Rove will also be pardoned. I believed pardons can be applied toward any possible investigations.

He's getting off. Even if we're lucky and future indictements get Rove, he'll still be pardoned.

Not that I'd be complaining. An indictement and a short jail sentenbce atleast shows that the law officially caught up with these fuckers. It's better than nothing for sure.

[LSK]

23. its too late

The indictment is pretty damning and destroys a lot of right wing talking points. It would have never gotten this far. It is going to trial.

[Jim__]

24. Fitz won't cut a deal without getting a full statement.

Libby may plead guilty without a deal; but I really doubt it.

[JPK]

27. I reiterate....what deal?

If Libby pleads guilty on all counts....what is the "deal" that PF could make? There would be no deal TO make. Remember what the inictments are for. Nothing to do with the outing. Pleading guilty = no trial. The only alternative I can think of is if PF does have anything outside today's indictments that he could possibly use as a threat for further indictments against him. Which PF alluded to today is a non issue.

[H2O Man]

30. There is little chance

that Libby would consider pleading guilty on all counts. So little, that it places in the "not to be seriously considered" file.

[Bouncy Ball]

32. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Yeah, right. Especially the part about it quietly going away and fading from the front pages.

Did you even notice today that his speech was only carried by a couple of networks and even those networks cut off his speech after a few minutes to go to coverage of THIS?

Did you catch that there will be a new grand jury convened?

I think you are engaging in a bit of wishful thinking.

[Bluebear]

33. Ha ha ha ha ha ha

You wish.

[Bouncy Ball]

34. This is huge and you apparently don't know how big it really is.

This was only the BEGINNING today, not the end.

This is going to cast a long shadow over the rest of bush's time in office, that was said on TV today more than once and by people I used to consider quite the bushites.

And they'll be lucky if all it casts is a long shadow over it.

[No Exit]

36. Welcome to DU. Tell us about yourself.

And be sure to tell us just how the executive branch is going to prevent the judicial branch from running its course with the trial of Irving Libby.

If you were Irving Libby, would you fall on your sword and plead guilty, thus branding yourself as a felon and possibly getting jail time, just to please people who you now perceive as hanging you out to dry?

The real Libby must be feeling rather bitter right now. The same way Trent Lott feels rather bitter. And, coincidental with Trent's bitterness, the SEC is going after Trent's rival, Bill Frist, with a vengeance.

The republican party is imploding. Ain't it great??

[JPK]

38. Listen......

I've been a dem all my life. I live in NE Fla and I'm originally from Mass. I'm 53 years old and I'm so liberal, progressive, whatever label you want to call it, the people I work with call me their token liberal.

As far as Libby is concerned, based on what PF said today, I think it's obvious to me that one of two things will happen. Either he'll plead guilty to all the charges to protect those above him....which I don't see as too far from the realm of possibility or he will make a deal with PF and spill his guts. If he chooses the former, he'll be taken care of by the repuke machine till he needs a real nice headstone. If he chooses the latter, he may get his freedom, but he'll be villifiled by the right wing as a sellout for the rest of his life and have to sell a book about it to stay off welfare. I hope PF has more poop on them and is just holding it back.

A third possibility could be that PF has more on him and is holding it over his head to get him to talk. That could only be either a conspiracy charge or the outing charge....maybe both. He could be looking at a much longer time in the slamer with those charges hanging over him. Real stong incentive to talk. PF must know pretty much what the whole picture is and either doesn't have the evidence to prosecute everyone or is playing a waiting game. Also, based on PF's eloquent and lofty description as to the way the law is supposed to work today, if he knows what really happened and doesn't persue this to the end....he's just another high payed BS government employee collecting a paycheck.

[Jose Diablo]

51. Or 4th, during his trial it comes out that he outed Plame

He is convicted of espionage during wartime and fitted for a new necktie at Leavenworth.

[Caretha]

52. If Libby pleads guilty

on all counts, then that opens the door for not only conspiracy but that very elusive law regarding the Espionage Act of 1917. That would be Fitzgerald's dream and believe me....he has definitely thought about it. You did listen to/or read the script of his news conference didn't you?

Libby has no choice at this point but to fight the charges, and no doubt the White House wants him to. You really think they want the truth about WHIG and their lies to start the war in Iraq exposed?

[No Exit]

55. Here's something that may help answer your questions:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5216373

[TheWatcher]

63. I just love it when you guys use the same old material

"I've been a dem all my life. I live in NE Fla and I'm originally from Mass. I'm 53 years old and I'm so liberal, progressive, whatever label you want to call it, the people I work with call me their token liberal."

"I hate George Bush more than anybody, but.....", "I was against the war. but.....", "I'm as Big a Liberal as anybody, but....."

I'm still waiting for one of you to say "Hey, alot of my friends are Liberals."

I'll give you points for creativity, but whenever I see the "I'm one of you" defense, it's a Red Flag.

Stick to your talking points and lock step ideology. That way you won't look silly trying to be something you probably aren't.

I'm really beginning to love some of the New Blood here at DU. You guys are scared to death that your "Team" isn't doing so well.

Maybe once the lid blows off what this country has become and that these pieces of shit have caused it, you'll wake up and realize this isn't a Football Game.

This is the fate of a country, the fate of a planet, and the dire straits all of us are in because of your "Team". Your "Team" Made EVERYBODY Lose.

And by the way it's P-U-R-S-U-E.

Man, if you guys learn to spell, you may actually fool more if us.

[goodhue]

39. I tend to agree, but I sure wish it would--it would be amazing.

[Marr]

41. Interesting idea. You could be right.

They may drag it out as long as possible, forcing alot of deliberation between lawyers about what classified information can and can't be used in the court, for instance... and then when it begins, bang- he pleads guilty and waits for Bush's last day in office and the pardon that will come with it.

The only problem is this:

That could mean more than two years in real prison for Scooter Libby. Do you think he can hold out waiting for a pardon for even that long? I can imagine him going into the pokey for a few months, but 2 or more years...? I don't know.

There may be some wheeling and dealing with Fitzgerald in Libby's future.

[sepia_steel]

44. Scooter has stated that he believes he will be fully

exonerated. He will not plead guilty. This will go to court.

[Jackpine Radical]

54. I have no idea if he will eventually plead, make a deal, or fight all the

way, but this statement means absolutely nothing and has no predictive value whatsoever. Of COURSE he's gonna plead innocent at this point. What would you expect, a confession?

[sepia_steel]

56. Quite the opposite, obviously,

hence my post in the first place.

[yowzayowzayowza]

50. Agreed. None of them will.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5216237

[DeepModem Mom]

53. David Boies predicted this on Lou Dobbs' show...

that the case would not go to trial. If he were Libby's lawyer, I'm sure that would be his goal for his client.

[Carolab]

57. Fitz said it was about the TRUTH. And he said he'd keep going.

I believe him. I don't think he's interested in "cutting deals". I think he's interested in JUSTICE.

[fujiyama]

61. Yep

and in the end he'll get a pardon as well.

And Rove will escape scott free.

People who believe anyone will serve a significant jail sentence are deluded. At the max, Libby will be the only one to spend time in prison, and if he does, only for a short period.