By jove, I think I've got it. Cheney still the target

[never cry wolf]

I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on the teevee but here's a thought that just came to me, I hope I can express it clearly.

First, at Fitz's press conference he mentioned repeatedly that he would be derelict in his duty not to hear both sides of a conversation before deciding to indict.

Second, we know Cheney told Libby about Plame. Given the context, after they knew Wilson was talking to the press, does anyone here believe darth cheney didn't say something to Libby like, "how can we fuck them?"

Third, Fitz emphasized a few times how serious the alleged crimes are against Libby. In the indictment he was also very careful to list multiple examples to prove what Libby knew and when he knew it. It's a strong case and Libby is in deep shit and knows it. Despite that Libby has still not cooperated.

Fourth, it was widely speculated the rove would also be indicted today but there was a flurry of abnormally visible actions at the last minute, checking with the neighbors about knowledge about Plame, interviewing an associate of rove, a meeting with rove's attorney and voila, no rove indictment as expected.

Does anyone here doubt that cheney and rove ever discussed Plame and a term similar to, "how can we fuck them" came up?

Sound plausible so far? So, here's my theory: Fitz knows more than we do, obviously, so I have no doubt he knows how vengeful but also how tightly knit this cabal is. Libby and rove are eyewitnesses to conspiracy by cheney and others but neither will talk. He very well have other witnesses (Hadley, Wurmser, et al) but as today's indictments show, he is very thorough and wants ALL the evidence possible. The GJ was expiring so he nailed scooter with serious charges with serious consequences because he was the easy target due to blatant lying. He holds off on Rove to let Libby twist in the wind wondering if kkkarl flipped. Libby also doesn't know who else has talked so he starts to think, "should I go to the pen for up to 30 years to protect Dick when he is going to go down anyway or do I save my skin?"

So, there you have it. Pure supposition and probably alot of wishful thinking but I think that Fitz is going after conspiracy and todays indictments are meant to break one of the prime members down. Alot of background info from H2O Man contributed to these thoughts. Opinions appreciated, is my tinfoil on too tight?

[Catch22Dem]

1. I like the way you think

No idea if you're right, but I sure like it.

[never cry wolf]

3. Thanks,

I think this is a long way from over. I also think Ftiz downplayed continuing investigations so that Stephanie would stop posting pics of him going to and from the office... (j/k Steph) I do think he dislikes all the pub tho.

[savemefromdumbya]

2. yes

fish bait

[rateyes]

4. I said in another thread I started that

I believe Fitz is squeezing Libby with the prospect of jail to get him to talk---Fitz kept saying, I don't have the full truth, and I can't indict others unless I have the full truth---and, the reason I don't have the full truth is that Libby has obstructed the investigation.....Fitz wants the full truth, and he's either gonna get it, or Libby is going to be the object of his wrath for not getting it. The question comes down, right now, to whether Libby finally comes clean, and remains alive and unpardoned.

[never cry wolf]

5. Exactly.........n/t

[caledesi]

9. Absolutely! nt

[1620rock]

6. Yes, but...

What if the monkey has promised Libby a pardon in the event things go bad for him?

[never cry wolf]

8. I don't think the boy king can do that

There is an end to even his hubris. I think he knows if he did the pitchforks and torches would assail him in full force, I don't think he'd spend what little political capitol he has left on an underling. By the same token he could threaten Libby and his family if he talks which may be more effective.

"Mr. Libby, let me introduce you around, here is Mr. Rock, here is Mr. Hard Place."

[Generic Other]

7. He has to turn them one person at a time

Miller turned on Libby who will turn on ?

Also, why punish someone for the cover-up if there is no crime?

I'm going with your analysis. It aint over.

[rateyes]

11. Another way to say that is..

no one covers up that which is not a crime. If you are hiding something, it's because there's something to hide. Fitz won't stop until he get's the truth or a piece of somebody's hide for covering up the truth. This isn't the light at the end of the tunnel. This is the entrance to the tunnel.

[never cry wolf]

13. Your mention of Miller reminds me of how I had this idea

You are exactly correct. Miller wouldn't talk so she went to jail until she did. I saw the similarity. Libby talked but didn't talk truthfully so now he will go to jail for a long time unless he spits out the truth. Fitz is making his way up the food chain.

[Generic Other]

20. The food chain!! LOL

I love that analogy. Looks like this new GD:CIA Leak forum is gonna be around for awhile!

[Demeter]

14. Libby Will Turn on Rove and Condi

Because of jealousy and fear. He's jealous of Rove and Condi, and fearful of cheney.

Rove will spill the beans on Cheney. No love lost there.

The question is, who will Cheney out? Is it worth anyone's time to out Bush? Maybe Powell could out Bush, and prove he's good for something after all.

[indie_voter]

10. I think so

Page 2 of the indictment talks about the NDA Libby signed. Bold emphasis mine.

On or about January 23, 2001, LIBBY executed a
written “Classified Information Nondisclosure Agreement,” stating in part that “I understand and
accept that by being granted access to classified information, special confidence and trust shall be
placed in me by the United States Government,” and that “I have been advised that the unauthorized
disclosure, unauthorized retention, or negligent handling of classified information by me could cause
damage or irreparable injury to the United States or could be used to advantage by a foreign nation.”

Perhaps he did have authorization. From Cheney.

[crispini]

12. Hmm. This sentence of yours rings true.

Does anyone here doubt that cheney and rove ever discussed Plame and a term similar to, "how can we fuck them" came up?

That sounds correct.

I believe that Libby is protecting Cheney. That makes perfect sense.

[never cry wolf]

15. That is their MO! You know it, I know it...

and I have no doubt Fitz knows it. He just can't say it like we can.

[EuroObserver]

16. My thinking too. But SHHHH (tiptoeing away)...

Give them enough rope.

[mzmolly]

17. Unfortunately Cheney is probably in the clear so far b/c Libby was not

unauthorized to receive classified info. I think Libby knows he'll be pardoned if he sticks it out long enough?

I hope someone cracks against Cheney however cause I think your on the right track.

[never cry wolf]

18. That is true on it's face

Fitz repeated that it was not a crime for people in the admin with the proper clearances to discuss Plame. But it IS a crime to discuss her in a conspiracy to do harm. Conspiracy charges are much easier to bring and prove than espionage and we all damn well know there was a conspiracy, a concerted effort to harm Joe Wilson & his credibility (and maybe more) by outing his wife. That is conspiracy, Fitz just needs to be able to prove it.

[mzmolly]

19. Ahhhhhhhhhhh, very interesting clarification.

Thank you.

:hi:

[never cry wolf]

21. you are quie welcome

some reporter asked sbout a conspiracy of one, Fitz dodged it.