Your thoughts on Fitzgerald's body language about indicting Rove?

[Quixote1818]

I was listing on the radio and didn't get a feeling one way or another. What was his body language on TV like?

They say body language is 80% of all communication. Could Fitzgerald have just been trying to cover his intentions? After all, he seems to have a thing about running a fair trial.

[MichiganVote]

1. This body language stuff is all nonsense

[TahitiNut]

6. Golly! The profound logic and detail of your argument sure convinced me!

I'm glad I don't have to rely on the authority of some anonymous, unsubstantiated source and can be well-informed by people who understand what a discussion forum is all about! The plethora of expert references that describe the misunderstanding of such issues was highly educational. I'm particularly impressed by the credentialed sociologists and the abundant research you've provided. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!




:evilgrin:

[Quixote1818]

10. I minored in Communications

They drilled it into our heads that Non-Verbal communication was 80% of all communication. Thats why I am so interested in this. Body language usually gives the real picture.

[TahitiNut]

17. Well, in my 62 years I've found it to be insightful.

I've had my own personal feelings challenged based on my body language in working groups and the challenges were DEAD NUTS ON! It was like being naked -- my "tells" were being read like a Dick and Jane book.

I don't know about "80%" ... whether that's by weight or length ... and am suspicious of such pseudo-metrics. I do know that I've successfully relied on reading body language (in ways that I've been taught) in all kinds of social and business settings and, except for someone well-trained in masking, have found it to be very surprisingly reliable -- especially in detecting deceit and duplicity. That's what's been especially valuable to me. Like many, I've avoided the company of deceitful people for most of my life. In avoiding them, I've not learned how to deal with them - and have been, at times, badly trapped into some painful experiences.

Like any language, people can learn to lie using it. :shrug:

[kestrel91316]

37. That's why on the radio Fitz didn't do much for me, but once I

saw him on TV later, I liked his presentation.

Radio leaves out a lot of cues. I especially like to watch the eyes.

[MichiganVote]

16. Offended you huh. Well, schucks I sure am sorry and beg your

usual indifferance to posts you could care less about.

[TahitiNut]

18. Well, while I'm deeply touched by your concern and regrets ...

... I can assure you that I'm not at all offended. I hope that takes a load off for you.

[MichiganVote]

22. On the contrary I am profoundly humbled and bent low

over a bowl of popcorn wondering why anyone on a message board needs a Ph.D to dismiss a prosecutor's "body language" at a press conference before the entire country on a matter of WH indictments and national security. It is possible people were more focused on the message than the messenger but what do I know, lowly worm of pond scum that I am. For shame and sorrow.

[TahitiNut]

32. Oh, golly... I don't think anyone should be ashamed of being ...

... a self-educated junior high school dropout, least of all you with such erudite and persuasive debate skills! After all, anyone can be a PhD on the Internets! I thought everyone was! I'll ask God's forgiveness tomorrow morning for even allowing you to feel self-conscious about a non-standard education. (I'll surely let you know what my penance is, if you wish.)

[Missy Vixen]

45. I disagree

If I'm talking with someone who tells me that they are all about cooperating, but they won't look me in the eye and have their arms crossed across their chest, I know that they're not being truthful.

I use body language cues daily to get the real "message" instead of what someone else might be saying...

Julie

[Straight Shooter]

2. Don't play poker with him. n/t

[progressivebydesign]

3. He was standing behind a tall podium and gave no hints...

There is really no way to read body language on something moving as fast as a press conference. Those folks that are out in the media trying to glean something from his body language are just trying to kill time on air. they haven't a clue.

[Quixote1818]

4. Thanks, that was the kind of answer I was looking for nt

[TahitiNut]

21. At times, he showed an inner conflict ...

... (shifting in a somewhat swaying manner) as he tried to serve the questioner's desire for information while adhering to the strict ethics (as he sees them) of the justice system and grand jury processes. What little body language I saw, masked by the podium, seemed consistent with his exposition.

I would certainly expect a trial lawyer to be very well disciplined in this, however. I saw nothing that would riase a red flag -- any inconsistencies between what he said and how he managed his posture.

[KoKo]

26. Agree with what you say....

and felt that he was bothered by having to threaten Cooper and Miller with jail. He spent alot of time explaining that. Also, what you noticed, he seemed to understand the reporters wanting more information and I felt that he knew what the questions were going to be...but he held himself back with discipline. I picked up some inner frustration that he couldn't say more just from his eyes..but I could have imagined that. I had a good feeling from him. Can't say that about many folks these days I see on the tube, and about any Prosecutor I've seen, either. I got that he's very, very tough on principles but that there's a "kindness" there. He opens doors for his female legal assistants, too. (that sort of turned me on...even though some would think that isn't PC in these times).

Compare his interaction with reporters to Scotty McClellan to see a "class act."

[TahitiNut]

34. Indeed, he seems to be conscientious and respectful of others.

He was diligent in making comments inclusive of the other prosecutors - more than mere hush-puppies, the tone was genuine and not patronizing or self-elevating. (Too many hand out acknowledgments from "on high" - elevating themselves by jettisoning a worthless cargo of throw-away platitudes while they inflate themselves with their own hot air.)

The tone and manner of so many prosecutors (Starr especially) is one of self-righteous "left hand of God" posturing. It's as though they get into that work because exercising power over others is their Viagra. Fitzgerald showed none of that. I'm pretty certain I would have picked up on it no matter how much I felt the indictee was deserving of punishment.

[kestrel91316]

38. He definitely comes across as humble, and not some egomaniac like

Starr.

[Punkingal]

33. Bingo, Mike....

:loveya: That is what I saw, too, once I thought about it after hearing a reporter talk about it. Being one of those "nuts" who majored in Psychology, I usually pay attention to that sort of thing, but I was so fascinated by what he was saying, I didn't take that into account until I watched it later. But I think it's kind of crazy for reporters to be talking about it....I can't recall that being a subject with them in recent memory, except recently when Bush was on the Today Show, someone talked about him blinking his eyes a lot and shifting around when the subject of the investigation came up. My take on his body language, BTW, is the bastard is in it up to his eyeballs!!!!

[TahitiNut]

36. C-czar Disgustsus' body language is a study in extreme ambivalence ...

... these days, I think. It was very apparent on Friday after Fitzgerald's press conference. It's a wallow-or-flee thing, I think. He's habitually wallowing in being on-stage - "it's-all-about-him" being his hog-sty. At the same time, he seems to have some almost-reptilian vestigial sense that he's getting closer to being seen as the Naked Chimperor he is. It's a fascinating study in pathology. Watch closely and think "12 years old" and I think you'll see what I mean.
(Good to see you here, m'luv! :loveya: :hug: )

[msongs]

5. after watching bush blink and squirm, a normal looking person seems

unusual. no blinking spasms indicating he is lying thru his teeth, no drug induced hangover looking tremors and shakes (even if they are NOT caused by drugs and/or alcohol they sure look the same).

[flying_wahini]

7. Fitzi's body language was what one would expect

straight shooter, dripping with respectability and a
by the book guy.
Direct contact, very little posturing, upright, and
very, very professional.
He spoke to reporters for a long time and never smirked or grimaced once.

[supernova]

9. That's my take too

He didn't give anything away about what he's planning. Total professional.

[babylonsister]

8. Fitz was well-spoken (w/o notes, BTW), seemed

relaxed though his voice quavered occasionally, but that could be 'him', was courteous, and spent a long time answering questions that he could. I thought he was very impressive, but I don't know a thing about body language. He didn't appear uncomfortable. HAving said that, there were beaucoups cameras staring him in the face.

[riderinthestorm]

11. I heard that quaver in the voice too

I listened to him on the radio in the car. I thought he might have been nervous when I first heard him because of that occasional quiver.

Then I saw the newscast later in the day and there was no way that guy was nervous. He was cool as a cucumber. I think he was having a huge adrenaline rush. He looked extremely poised. Sometimes after a really exciting presentation or conversation my voice can quaver when I am nailing it and the adrenaline is high.

I cannot understand for the life of me though, how anyone can read anthing about Fitz's body language?

Is this part of some new Orwellian-speak? Some new talking point they're trying out, to snow everyone with? It makes no sense.

[kestrel91316]

42. I think you are right about the adrenaline rush, rather than fear per se.

[kestrel91316]

41. I know that quaver in the voice. Even when you are the most

knowledgeable person in the room, having a bunch of cameras on you can be unsettling. I get that way if I have to give a talk in front of more than half a dozen people. Public speaking TERRIFIES me.

Fitz may be good in the courtroom, but I think the cameras and total focus of the world at the time got to him just a teensy bit. That's ok by me. He's human.

[Little Star]

12. To me

his body language was non threatening, apple pie. Someone you would like your daughter to date.

In other words totally opposite what he wrote in that indictment.

[babylonsister]

13. '...like my daughter to date." LOL! If I wasn't married... BTW,

welcome to DU! :hi:

[Little Star]

14. Oh yeah

Forgot to mention I also like to get some vibes from body language. You know first impressions and all. It is useful to me.

[WinkyDink]

15. I thought it was of a man

who realized the import of what he was doing and saying, and kept his tone even and his body still. He got tripped up a couple times with "Valerie Wilson and wife", but no biggie.
He was a man discussing vermin, and yet showed them respect.

[Spazito]

19. It was interesting that his voice seemed to have that change

when he was speaking about the outing of a CIA agent and how serious that was. It seemed to me the timber of his voice changed not because of nervousness but because of outrage. There was no doubt he is outraged at the breach of national security and the flouting of the law. I saw no nervousness in him, only a quiet confidence and an absolute belief in the rule of law.

[Walt Starr]

20. Based upon eerything I've seen from Fitzgerald in Illinois

There's a lot more to this than anybody is imagining right now.

A lot more.

I've seen this all before.

[applegrove]

23. I didn't notice anything odd. How could you. He was straight.

[NoBushSpokenHere]

24. My opinion

I read the press conference and found it to be very interesting. I watched the conference tonight on a taped webcast. I wanted to watch to see if I could "read any tea leaves" from his voice or stance. I saw no indications of anything more than an excellent prosecutor presenting the indictment details. I am not an expert in body language, but have great listening skills. Very happy that he is the prosecutor in this case.

[SFDEM32]

30. Body language

New here, but I heard the body language BS on ABC with George Stephenapolous(sp?:) I wouldn't really put that much stock in it. It was a press conference, not something personal. What I heard from his voice was that he was not too thrilled with Libby. (I use understatements alot:) and th at he was truly a law and order guy.

[Punkingal]

40. Welxome To DU!!!

You're gonna love it here!:bounce:

[lavendermist]

25. I was impressed with the way he focused his...

attention on the person asking a question. He looked directly at the person until he or she was finished asking a question and then responded. He was not distracted by other people or sounds. I thought at the time, I would not like to be trying to deceive him if he is asking me a question that I don't want to answer. Man, he has my vote for whatever he pursues.

[countryjake]

27. Don't know about Rove-indicting body-language,

but Fitzgerald gave his arm a long scratch when Pete Williams popped in with his questions about taking the word of three reporters over the vice prez's chief of staff. Perhaps this was Cheney-indicting body-language, seeing that Williams has very long, close ties to the man. And Fitzgerald's scoffing remark concerning the "flurries of activity" came not long after, in his shoeshine laugh.

[stevedeshazer]

28. I observed a great deal, trying to put myself in his shoes.

Fitzgerald was VERY nervous and had a dry mouth at first. Think about it: You're appearing on NATIONAL TELEVISION for the first time after 22 months of speculation, culminating in the frenzy of the last week. He shifted back and forth on his feet, inidicating discomfort with being in such a position. He stumbled and broke into a sweat at first. Well, no shit, wouldn't you?

Talk about high expectations.

After his initial statement, he calmed down and got settled in. Hveing been on stage many times myself, it's a familiar feeling.

Then, when he opened things up for questioning, he became much more relaxed and eloquent, even joking with the reporters a bit. Answering the questions, he was in command. This shows me that he knows absolutely what he was talking about, inside and out. Compare any lying Republican side by side answering questions in an open forum, and you'll know what I'm talking about.

This guy is absolutely sincere and knows what he's talking about. He is well-rehearsed and knows exactly what he's doing. His body language SCREAMS it.

He knows that everything he says and does from here on out will be scrutinized and taken apart in the right-wing press, and these after all are very powerful people.

My body-language radar tells me that this guy knows a lot more than we can imagine, that he understands the implications and is being careful with his words, and wants all the ducks lined up.

Just watch a liar like Bush and compare.

[PurityOfEssence]

29. It's all a bunch of crap

Funny how this is the talking point used by so many. Nightline used this last night, and many other entities cling to this as some kind of "proof".

The best way to destroy the right wing is to compile on a daily basis its talking heads spewing the same brain-dead and SPECIFIC PHRASES and show them edited together as The Daily Show has done on occasion. It happens over and over again.

The one thing that makes me hopeful about this is that it shows that maybe Fitzgerald IS as circumspect and decent as he seems, otherwise, the nazis wouldn't be trying so hard to figure out what else is on his mind.

Anything's possible.

[Catherine Vincent]

31. No way you can read body language on Fitzgerald.

He not only has a poker face but a poker body as well!

Btw, you can watch the replay here:
http://www.c-span.org/homepage.asp

[Marr]

35. I saw no real body language at all, and even if I did-

I'm not sure just what sort of girations would mean "I intend to indict Karl Rove" or "I am finished investigating this subject".

I mean seriously- I understand body language communicating ideas like "I don't like you" or "I have to take a piss", but this Fitzgerald thing is a tad specific, don't you think?

[FreedomAngel82]

39. You can see the video at

crooksandliars.com :) And also http://canofun.com/blog/

[countryjake]

43. Nothing Without Hope has it posted right here...

up in the yellow threads on the top of the page! They're taken from Canofun, broken into five segments for easier viewing.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5210267&mesg_id=5210267


(Edited to add link)

[ngGale]

44. My first impression of Fitz when he walked out was...

being nervous, at first, in front of all the camera's and media people there. Made me feel good, you could tell he's not into media coverage. This man does not seek to be recognized, like some we have seen. He was so honest and did not need a script, it was all in his head.
I'm become more impressed than ever...