I'm not a lawyer, but when reading the counts listed in the indictments

[stop the bleeding]

I can not but help think that Fitz pretty much has open and shut case on Libby. There does not seem to be much grey area for debating.

So does Libby fight the counts. Which if he does looks like Fitz has him by the balls and he'll lose and get the maximum sentence, and who knows what other details would come out in the trial that Scooter or other WH officials would want to remain secret.

Pleads guilty to one of the counts and agrees to squeal and in return will serve a Martha Stewart sentence

or does he end up eating the bullet and serving a possible 20-30 years.

None of these seems like good news to me if I was Dick Cheney.

Is there something I am missing?

[Jackpine Radical]

1. Takes the rap, goes to prison & awaits his Presidential pardon.

The pardon could come at any time after Nov 2006.

[stop the bleeding]

2. He can be pardoned? We are absolutely sure of this?

[mopinko]

9. pardon power is absolute

for federal crimes. i'll be shocked if he doesn't get one.

[longship]

12. Pardon is absolute, and so is impeachment

Pardons prior to prosecution of these crimes should be followed by swift impeachment. If it doesn't that means that the WH is willing to use the pardon to escape its own criminal activity and the country is not willing to in turn hold a lawless WH accountable. In other words, our republic will cease to be one of laws, but one of anything goes.

[mopinko]

14. it ceased long ago, as far as i can tell

as cover-ups get harder to pull off, pardons get easier to get. warren commissions don't grow on trees, ya know.

[Jackpine Radical]

10. Why couldn't he?

If Poppy could pardon Cap Weinberger even before a trial, why can't Junior spring Scooter? In fact, he could apparently pardon him preemptively, but I assumed he wouldn't do so before 2006 because that might prompt a political bloodbath in the midterm elections and subject him to increased risk of impeachment.

[rzemanfl]

3. Why does everyone at DU confuse lose and loose? This is the

third time in a week I've noticed this.

My guess is that Libby's lawyer already has a pardon signed by Bush in his safe deposit box.

[stop the bleeding]

4. Sorry - corrected. I type really fast and try to rely on the spell checker

but this time I am busted, please don't think I am a MORAN.:)

[rzemanfl]

7. When I do it I blame keyboard stutter. n/t

[Jackpine Radical]

8. Re: Loose v. lose...

This is a common deliberate misspelling around here, like "moran," the infamous Paul Pot, hugh, etc., all of which were gleaned from the dyslexic trolls of Misspellheim.

[rzemanfl]

11. That would be nice, but all three people I called out on this

blamed typing errors, otherwise I would be making a hugh mistake. Pot Paul was my dealer in college, it was Paul's pot I smoked, subtle, but easily understood.

[alcibiades_mystery]

5. His case against Libby is very strong

I'd be shocked if Libby thought he could take this to court and get an acquittal. It's very close to obvious that Libby's statements to the federal investigators and to the grand jury were lies. Moreover, to successfully challenge the case in court, Libby would essentially have to call Ari Fleischer a liar, and Undersecretary at State (presumably Bolton) a liar, two CIA officials liars, and the Vice President a liar. The "I didn't remember" defense looks weak as hell, given the multitude of contacts and the three reporter witnesses. Libby's other defense would be that the grand jury miscontrued his discussions with Cooper and Miller as he described them, but he'd still be the one acusing numerous others of lies - at least seven people (and perhaps more) would have to be lying for Scooter to have been telling the truth.

He's fucked. Presumption of innocence, to be sure, but this is pretty strong as perjury cases go, and everybody knows it (including Scooter, and his current and future crimional defense attorneys). He will plead, but that leads to other problems. If he does plea, he will have to specifiy his reasons for lying to the court. He can, of course, make these up, but at this point he has to be wondering if future lies will also be discovered and charged.

[hang a left]

15. Someone was describing the criminal defense lawyers that Libby

has retained, yesterday on MSNBC, as specializing in deal making. My gut feeling is still that he will plead guilty. Now that sense does not factor in events that transpire up to his trial date. ie Someone else gives up Cheney, then he just might be willing to hand Fitz * to retaliate. I want Rice and Rumsfeld too.



edit comma

[John Q. Citizen]

6. The only other possibility is that bush will fall on his sword and

pardon Libby.

[meisje]

13. O.J.