There Were 2 More Indictments that were Sealed due to National Security?!

[spooked]

MORE SEALED INDICTMENTS UNDER NATIONAL SECURITY FOR VIOLATIONS OF THE ESPIONAGE ACT.

Cloak News Toronto - UPDATED
Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald under National Security guidelines sealed two Grand Jury Indictments. Tom Heneghan (special Cloak guest) who has been on the forefront releasing first news on the work of the Grand Juries, has learned that RICHARD PERLE and PAUL WOLFOWITZ have have been indicted (under seal) for violations of the Espionage Act and for misuse of classified information. V.P. CHENEY named as unindicted co-conspirator.

White House National Security Advisor STEVE HADLEY has flipped.

http://www.cloakanddagger.de/


So, RICHARD PERLE AND PAUL WOLFOWITZ also Indicted but the indictments are Sealed due to National Security? I believe I have heard the owner of this site cloakanddagger.de on coasttocoastam.com and he is a great guest, but it's hard to tell how legit this site is.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

1. Tom Heneghan is mad

Stop believing what you read on cloakanddagger.de. Skolnick & Stew Webb really just make shit up for fun.

[vickie]

2. How do we know this is valid?

[MADem]

29. We absolutely do NOT

Both of those guys skeedaddled a while back, Wolfie is at the World Bank, and what is Perle up to? Getting a check over at AEI, and advising the Likud party?

Not saying that it is IMPOSSIBLE, but hey, I would have to see this in a more mainstream outlet before I would let my heart beat faster.

[NewJeffCT]

3. while i'd love to believe this

I'll hold off on doing backflips until I see it confirmed from a few other sources.

[jedr]

4. OMG!

Add Bill Krystol and put them all behind bars and my wildest dreams have come true.

[Walt Starr]

5. Complete poppycock and rot

If you buy that one, you'd have to buy that Hillary shot Vince Foster.

[H2O Man]

10. Make that three more sealed indictments .....n/t

[NewJeffCT]

12. now you're teasing me

I've been wicked sick today, and my daughter was sick this week... so I'm a bit out of the loop.

3 sealed indictments?

[H2O Man]

14. I was continuing

with Walt's joke about Senator Clinton. Fitzgerald diid not return sealed indictments against her, Perle, or Wolfowitz.

[NewJeffCT]

17. wow, am i out of it

when i saw your post there, i momentarily had hope it was true. i guess this medicine is stronger than i thought.

[H2O Man]

18. Okay .....

then I probably should tell you about Fitzgerald returned zip-locked big baggie indictments against Agnew, Nixon, Reagan, and Hamilton. Note that no one can prove this isn't true!

[stop the bleeding]

19. Seriously though

I'm not a lawyer, but when reading the counts listed in the indictments
I can not but help think that Fitz pretty much has open and shut case on Libby. There does not seem to be much grey area for debating.

So does Libby fight the counts. Which if he does looks like Fitz has him by the balls and he'll lose and get the maximum sentence, and who knows what other details would come out in the trial that Scooter or other WH officials would want to remain secret.

Pleads guilty to one of the counts and agrees to squeal and in return will serve a Martha Stewart sentence

or does he end up eating the bullet and serving a possible 20-30 years.

I am ruling out pardoning because by the time that would happen the whole why we are in Iraq will be all over the place.

None of these seems like good news to me if I was Dick Cheney.

But why would Libby lie? He is a practiced DC lawyer and he knew what Fitz's reputation was so why would he lie that is suicidal in the position he was in if you ask me.

H20 man I have heard that Fitz met with Bushy's personal lawyer on Friday? Has this been verified? If it has it makes for a very interesting variable for possible outcomes.

Also I have been toying with the idea that Fitz, the GJ and the Judge already issued a sealed indictment on Rove. Too many new events/developments happened this past week and they came way too late in the game for Fitz to have time to do anything. Your thoughts on this.

Sorry to run on, but I really think that are some large pieces of the puzzle that are still missing. I think that we are in for one hell of an eye opening experience. Let me know what your insight is on this.

Is there something I am missing?


Lastly thank you

[AntiFascist]

28. One wonders why he is on crutches....

could it be the same thing that caused Novak to break his hip?

[radfringe]

32. if he "eats the bullet"

it won't be for 20-30 years

Libby's lawyer is going to have his hands tied as to the timing of the trial. Mid-terms are coming up and the repugs will want a quick trial to get it over with before campaign season starts - or they will press to have it dragged out until AFTER mid-terms

have said that, and assuming Libby is convicted and sentenced to jail time - the most he'll spend in the can is 2 years and there will be a quick midnight pardon as bush* exits in jan-2007

as much as we all like to think justice is blind and it's doled out equally among all people -- reality is different. Libby is connected and if he has to take the fall for all of this then he's going to want some goodies.

[stop the bleeding]

33. Eating the bullet means he pleads guilty to all 5 counts and if I under-

stand the Federal sentencing guidelines each count has a certain point value, and when a judge sentences a defendant the total amount of points is added up from all of the counts to determine the sentence. So that would be a little more than 2 years in the case of pleading guilty to these 5 counts. The only way he can get 2 years out of this now is to cop a deal where he pleads to 1 count and the other four Fitz files a equivalent of a "Nolle Prosse" which means Fitz chooses not to prosecute the other charges. So going back to my questions in the post up above what does all of this mean for Libby, and Cheney and what other parts of the puzzle our we missing?

[splat]

6. Besides saying "Nyah-nyah" can anyone contradict this?

Can anyone support that this did or did not happen?

[Jim Sagle]

13. How the hell would anyone here BE IN POSITION to support OR deny?

All we have to go on is their rep, and it's bad.

[MADem]

30. Point well made n.t

[wookie294]

20. Yes

Fitzgerald said the investigation is mostly over and that we shouldn't assume he has empaneled a new grand jury to bring more indictments. Here's what he said yesterday...

I can tell you, the substantial bulk of the work in this investigation is concluded.

<snip>

This grand jury's term has expired by statute; it could not be extended. But it's in ordinary course to keep a grand jury open to consider other matters, and that's what we will be doing.

It's routine in long investigations that you would have available a new grand jury if you needed to go back to them. And that's nothing unusual. I don't want to raise any expectations by that; that's an ordinary practice.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/28/politics/28text-fitz.html?pagewanted=all

[alcibiades_mystery]

22. It's unfalsifiable

That being the point of a sealed indictment. I can say there were 200 sealed indictments, and nobody would be able to dispute me. That, of course, doesn't necessarily make it fucking so.

The source should tell us all we need to know about this story, however.

[Vidar]

7. Unfortunately not a credible source.

[earth mom]

8. Very interesting....

:wow:




:tinfoilhat:

[BattyDem]

9. Forgive my ignorance ...

but what does it mean if an indictment is sealed? Will it ever be prosecuted? :shrug:

I wish I could believe this story, but the source is very questionable. :-( However, I'd still like to know what happens with a sealed indictment.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

21. Yes, what happens with a "sealed" indictment?

Anyone know the legalities?

[alcibiades_mystery]

23. Here's the relevant text

(4) Sealed Indictment.

The magistrate judge to whom an indictment is returned may direct that the indictment be kept secret until the defendant is in custody or has been released pending trial. The clerk must then seal the indictment, and no person may disclose the indictment's existence except as necessary to issue or execute a warrant or summons.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcrmp/Rule6.htm

The genius of this laughable claim is, of course, that it is essentially unfalsifiable. People who want to believe it will believe it. The rest of us will apply our good sense and reject it as the wild imaginings and rumor-mongering of cloakanddagger.shite...

[BattyDem]

26. Thanks for the info!

:toast:

[Rosco T.]

11. Can anyone DISPROVE this???

other than by just saying "poo-poo"???

[Blackthorn]

15. No one can prove or disprove this...

...because sealed indictments are not to be reported on and will not be covered in the MSM.

We'll just have to wait and see.

[alcibiades_mystery]

24. Silly me...thinking that someone who made a claim had to prove it!

Poo poo indeed.

Of course, I could just join the "Member Archives" for $30 and get all the "real" information from these cretins, but I'd rather quibble about logic and falsifiablity on DU, where every wacky claim without any evidence a-tall has to be "disproved" rather than - shock of shocks - the mere lack of any evidence counting (as it would in any rational discussion) as refutation in itself.

I'd be happy to rebut the claim...Please provide evidence for it and I'll address each piece of evidence as you present it. Unless, of course, you have no evidence?

Let's review. "Cloak News" makes a claim, but offers no evidence in support. And it is up to people who doubt the claim to disprove it?!? Is that the wacky world we live in now?

[Garbo 2004]

27. One would suggest that this same source who's the source of

incredibly poor disinformation is not in a position to have such information or to be informed enough to know any more than my cat about such matters.

This guy previously reported that the Chicago grand jury returned indictments against everyone including Tony Blair in the Plame investigation.

Point of fact: Washington DC grand jury was in charge of the Plame investigation. The matter never was before a Chicago grand jury and thus they had no authority to issue indictments in an investigation not before it.

This same source previously said AG Gonzales interfered and was holding up indictments. That Bush/Gonzales were firing Fitz. US Marshals and/or the military were en route to California to arrest Bush. (He was attending an event there at the time.)

Fact: Gonzales recused himself from the Plame investigation when he became AG. Fitz, for purposes of the Plame investigation, has the same authority of the AG of the US and does not have to run anything by Gonzales in order to act. (See Dec 30, 2003 doc on Fitz's web site. Comey's press conference that same day makes the point and also is available via the internet.)

And of course, Fitz doesn't look fired. And Bush isn't in cuffs.

In fact, the DOJ position generally has been that one cannot indict a sitting President. Which is why one remembers the phrase "unindicted co-conspirator."

That's not even getting into his previous report of a super duper secret shootout in a Chicago subway between French and British intelligence. (The French were the good guys and foiled a MI 6 plot to bomb a Chicago subway.) http://www.stewwebb.com/Tony%20Blair's%20MI-6%20Agents%20Caught%20Trying%20To%20Blow%20Up%20Chicago%20Subway.htm

Ignoring the fact that this fellow doesn't bother to get basic mundane facts correct and has been consistently wrong in his "reporting," you are of course free to still believe he is a reputable source with inside access to secret information, no matter how fantastical or inaccurate.

I personally can't "disprove" that the moon is made of green cheese, but I have reason to believe, based on reputable sources, that it is not. My point being that Heneghan is so far from a reputable source that if he told me the sky is blue, I'd check for myself.

[dbeach]

16. now if you said andrea michtell said 3 secret indictments

the screams of joy would be heard round the world

JR may be carrying a 40% love fest with ameriken repubies but he ain't even double figures in most countries..

OK so cloak is too far out BUT 8/2/05 the story was out of the loony bins bush/cheney indicted..

DON'T sound tooo far off

Safe bet is the MM will continue to shill for da kill,lie,minimize and marginalize any and all who dare challenge their boy/god/king georgie

King George Bush the second = KGB II

'"What me worry"?? my poppy o is THE poppy o

[alcibiades_mystery]

25. I'd be doubtful until I saw concrete evidence to support it

As would any reasonable person.

[earth mom]

31. Kick

:kick: