I don't think Fitzgerald will call for any more indictments...

[kentuck]

I think he left it open-ended for a reason. However, in my opinion, that reason was to prevent people from saying it was a "whitewash" or that the Prosecutor was a Republican partisan. If he had announced that the Libby indictment was it, then a lot of people may have not been very happy with his announcement. So, I think this is a "cooling down" period. I do not think there will be any more indictments from Fitzgerald. Just my opinion.

[merh]

1. I think you are wrong.

Just my opinion. :hi:

[kentuck]

3. I respect your opinion.

:hi:

[Kralizec]

36. Me too. Reading the indictment and how Fitz said it on Friday makes

it clear how he will conttinue. I never even ought that it would not continue until I got back to reading DU on Friday. I never even got feeling that this was the end.

[merh]

39. I know what you mean.

Sometimes I wonder if they watched the same press conference I watched. :shrug:

[leesa]

40. I agree. Fitz stated quite clearly it was still very much open and that

there was plenty of room for more players to be involved. I suppose all the hopeless speculation is just born out of the fact that they have been able to wiggle out of everything thus far. It's a different game these days.

The thing to worry about now is whether the Bush appointed judge who will hear the case is a real judge or is part of the Syndicate.

[merh]

42. That is a concern, but my greatest concern is that the weed will

follow his dad's example and pardon all concerned. :shrug:

[proReality]

2. You're not alone...

Letting the White House Walk?

Special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald indicted White House aide Lewis Libby only on narrow charges of perjury and obstruction of justice, raising concerns among some Iraq War critics and U.S. intelligence veterans that Fitzgerald missed the broader conspiracy of leaking a CIA officer's identity to punish her husband. Did Fitzgerald give the White House a walk?

For the full story of whether Fitzgerald understands the ugly intricacies of Washington, go to Consortiumnews.com at http://www.consortiumnews.com

[Missy M]

4. I agree with your opinion. I think Libby will be it and it will all fade

away. It is all very disappointing and sad.

[KittyWampus]

5. Your Theory Rests On The Mistaken Premise Fitz Cares About Making People

"happy". Your suggestion is basically saying he's playing politics.

He isn't.

Why not inform yourself on how he got Gambinos and Terrorists.

[kentuck]

7. I hope you're right...

We shall see.

[SharonRB]

82. I agree

I don't think Fitz has any desire to play politics or worry about making people happy. He wants to do a good job and bring all of the "evildoers" to justice.

[DoYouEverWonder]

6. I beg to disagree

First of all, Fitzgerald is not registered with any party, he said so during his press conference.

Rather, by indicting Libby first, he gets to put the squeeze on all the players who don't know what's coming next.

The only reason why Rove didn't get indicted on Friday is because at the last minute he threw a bone to the prosecutors. Fitzgerald told us that he is a fair man and has to listen to all sides. So either the bone Rove gave him will have meat on it or it won't. If that bone turns out to be just another waste of time, then Rove is going to be in even worse trouble then he was to begin with. It's not a good idea to lie to the prosecutor and an even worse idea to send him on another wild goose chase, which is why Libby got charged with obstruction of justice.

Patience my friend, this is like a game of chess and Fitzgerald is a grand master at this game.

[hiabrill]

72. LOL good point....

"It's not a good idea to lie to the prosecutor and an even worse idea to send him on another wild goose chase"

You make sense and I agree, you need to be a grand master at this game...

I'm trying extremely hard to remain positive, but after the comments from Fitz that the "bulk" of the investigation is over & this is not his full-time job & & & &

It seems like Rove is his only other big fish.



We probably don't have the right to know if he is going to expand the investigation to include the lies and false statements used to justify the Iraq war. Having said that, Fitz seems reluctant to venture along those lines....

[zanne]

8. I'm surprised you aren't getting flamed for saying this.

Wow. I've never been flamed the way I was yesterday and the day before for daring to suggest that I was disappointed in the indictment handed down. I have to think that, either we're terrible pessimists, or alot of people here are engaged in wishful thinking. I know it's early yet, but Fitzgerald's language strongly suggested that he was just tidying up and that, for the most part, the investigation was over.

[KittyWampus]

14. Are you disappointed when your team is leading by 20 after the 1st half?

Do you feel disappointment during half time cause they referees didn't just end the game and give it your team after the 1st half?

[zanne]

24. I'm fighting about self-censorship on DU,

which has become increasingly conservative. If I state a fact alot of you disagree with, you attempt to get me to shut up about it with denigrating remarks. A few months ago, another DUer had to PM me to give me his position on gun control, (pro-control), because he/she actually felt INTIMIDATED about posting it on the boards. When someone has to feel intimidate about posting because they're afraid their position is TOO LIBERAL FOR DU, then we have a BIG problem.

[zanne]

31. kick n/t

[emulatorloo]

45. YOU can say anything you want. But be prepared to defend it.

EOM

[zanne]

58. What are you saying?

Please have the decency not to jerk me around. What exactly do you mean by that?

[emulatorloo]

68. I had to go out -- it means what it means -- anybody can state a

position on DU. But one has to be prepared to defend it. Freedom of speech means one are free to say what one wants to say. And others are free to challenge.

So if others challenge your assertions, that is part of the give and take of DU. And the give and take of freedom of speech.

[zanne]

59. Whoa--Wait a minute.

I just checked; you're the one who posted that "Gloom and Doom" posts should be censored! You're the perfect example of what I'm talking about!(And I have the facts about that).

[emulatorloo]

67. zanne -- I had to go out -- AND I DID NO SUCH THING

re read all my posts in that thread -- if you think I called for censorship you are misreading them

[zanne]

83. No--You wanted some "separate but equal"

You can say something that outrageous and then claim you never said it. That's a sleezy thing to do.

[flyarm]

33. fitz started out one case ..i believe the rethugs in ord..

with 1 indictment and ended with 66....enough said...
he trained and broke his tetth in the so.side of nyc!!

remember fitz was the guy who prosecuted the first bombers of the wtc, and indicted bin laden...and the gambino's..he is used to dealing with filthy liars...the filtiest...and you think this bunch of lying clowns in this white house will fool fitz...not a chance..then you don't understand ny prosecutors...they are not like L.A. prosecutors...who love the media..and tv lens...you never get leaks from the ny boys...and they are not easily detered...no sireee..the ny guys are cunning,..and inpenatrable..and tough as nails...tougher than anywhere else in the country..these guys are used to dealing with the worst of the mafia..and getting convictions!!

they are incredible chess players!!


fly

[emulatorloo]

44. Fitz spent half the conference saying you can't talk about a grand jury

and what a prosecutor is doing until you are ready to announce an indictment.

And then when he gets circumspect and won't talk about what he and the grand jury are doing now, you interpret it as "the prosecutor and grand jury is doing nothing and are done"

Sorry your conclusions do not logically follow. Fitz says the investigation is still open. By the rules he can't comment on anything else.

When he says it is closed, it will be closed.

[RC]

9. Hopeful he wants to nail Rove with a fully riveted, no way out 20 year

prison term. Rove deserves the best payback for his criminal activities.

[Walt Starr]

10. You obviously don't live in Illinois

If yo did, you'd know there's a lot more coming.

[zanne]

11. Do you have inside information?

If so, please tell us what it is. I'd like to hear a few FACTS about this continuing investigation. I have my opinion about the investigation and indictments being over by what Fitzgerald himself said on Friday. Since then, people have been telling me how wrong I am because they "think" or "believe" something else. Where's YOUR proof?

[KittyWampus]

16. Go To Latest Breaking News And Read Some Articles. The ONLY People

who heard the investigation was over were mediawhores, GOP'ers anxious to create that mistaken impression and some depressive DU'ers.

Why DU'ers fell for it, I don't understand. But savvy DU'ers often seem to fall for GOP spew.

[zanne]

20. You didn't answer my question...

If I don't know what's going on because I don't live in Illinois, there is obviously something going on in Illinois that would explain the whole thing to me. So why don't you answer the question instead of being cutesy at hinting that I'm a GOPer.

[KittyWampus]

25. Where did I come close to suggesting you're a gop'er? there's a lot

of DU'ers who fall for mediawhore/gop spin on a daily basis.

I do not exlude myself from the category.

After reading several articles on how Fitz got Gambinos and Terrorists by indicting someone high up and then exerting pressure

After reading that the investigation is still going on and Fitz has a NEW grand jury.

After hearing Fitz say that he's going to keep on until he can look everyone in the eye

I want to know why DU'ers STILL insist on saying the opposite.

[kentuck]

26. Just out of curiosity...

What does "Gambinos and Terrorists" have to do with whether or not he is a "partisan"? If he were a strong Democrat or strong Republican, he could not have gone after the Gambinos or the Terrorists? Explain...

[KittyWampus]

27. every piece I've read about Fitz says he's not paritsan. Any actual

evidence to suggest otherwise?

[kentuck]

28. No. but...

I don't think using Gambinos and Terrorists as evidence that he is not partisan does not make the case.

[Liberal Dose]

30. It's evidence that he is a serious investigator, and just as much the pit

bull that those who know him say he is. :D

[Clark2008]

32. The poster means that Fitzgerald is not scared to

take on powerful people.

(S)He is not using Gambinos and terrorists as an example that Fitzgerald is partisan, but that he's tenacious and persistent.

[kentuck]

62. That is obvious from his history...

a + b = c ? maybe..

[madrchsod]

38. see my post

the guy has done more to clean up chicago than the fire..

[Liberal Dose]

23. Proof? Did you watch Fitzgerald's press conference or read the transcript?

Fitz says that the bulk of the investigation is over. The fat lady has not yet sung. More indictments to come as a result of the investigation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/28/politics/28text-fitz.html?pagewanted=all

Mr. Fitzgerald, this began as a leak investigation but no one is charged with any leaking. Is your investigation finished? Is this another leak investigation that doesn't lead to a charge of leaking?


FITZGERALD: Let me answer the two questions you asked in one.

OK, is the investigation finished? It's not over, but I'll tell you this: Very rarely do you bring a charge in a case that's going to be tried and would you ever end a grand jury investigation.

I can tell you, the substantial bulk of the work in this investigation is concluded.

This grand jury's term has expired by statute; it could not be extended. But it's in ordinary course to keep a grand jury open to consider other matters, and that's what we will be doing.

[emulatorloo]

47. I read to mean 1.no more charges for LIBBY (but maybe for others) &

2. "the bulk of the investigation is over" + we've asked most of the questions, now we'll get the rest of the answers when we see what Lib Rov etc do next.

[ruggerson]

65. Pretty clear from this

that he means that it would be rare to extend a grand jury unless the bulk of work had not already been done (the work that went into indicting Libby).

Hence, I agree with the OP. I think Rove skates. It's all over but the shouting.

But that is not necessarily a bad thing. The damage has been done. If there is a trial, it will be on the front pages for months. Every move by Rove and/or Cheney is suspect.

And the piece de resistance? If we get back the House (which I think we will if we can get some candidates who understand hardball politics), articles of impeachment will be voted out of the Judiciary committee in 2007. If we get back the House, Bush will be impeached.

[flyarm]

34. look at fitz's big cases..starts with 1 indictment and ends with 66!!

[emulatorloo]

46. Zanne you are not listening to fitzgerald

REad the transcript again.

He spent a good half of the conference telling us why there were no leaks etc before the Libby indictment The rules are that a prosecutor and a grand jury can't talk about what it is doing until you are ready to announce an indictment.

Then after the libby indictment, reporters ask him about what is happening next. He says the investigation is still open. But really doesn't say too much else.

He gets circumspect and won't talk about what he and the grand jury are doing now, you interpret it as "the prosecutor and grand jury is doing nothing and are done"

Sorry your conclusions do not logically follow. Fitz says the investigation is still open. By the rules he can't comment on anything else.

When he says it is closed, it will be closed.

[Walt Starr]

66. Here are the facts

Beyond the Libby indictment, we know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about anyting further. Everything from there is speculation.

All we can do is look to prior sets of indictments from Fitzgerald.

I suggest you look to the indictments over several years in Illinois. Those started with a single indictment that all the talking heads and pundits said would be the end of the story, and ended with the 66th indictment being Governor George Ryan.

[emulatorloo]

69. thanks walt, as always EOM

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WI_DEM]

13. If Fitz has a iron-clad case against Libby--he is looking at up to 30 yrs.

in prison--how old is he? 50's? in other words it could be a death penalty. There is no way that Libby can cop a plea now without accepting at least one felony and doing some jail time, and the only way he can avoid 30 plus years and cop a plea at this point is to talk--Fitz knows there is more to the story and by indicting one person he is putting a lot of pressure on that one person--to be willing to accept being the only person to go to jail over something which no doubt involves others.

[sadiesworld]

52. You do understand that * will pardon Libby, right?

[Liberal Dose]

15. There will be more indictments, and the lies leading to war will be

exposed. I am finally confident enough to say "impeachment." Oh, it sounds so good. IMPEACHMENT IMPEACHMENT IMPEACHMENT!!!!!

:D

[Canuckistanian]

17. He just ran out of time, pure and simple

He knew he had Libby dead to rights and he wasn't going to waste the grand jury. After all, they put almost 2 years into this.

Now this is not to say that he was a rabid partisan who was looking for any kind of wrongdoing at all no matter how slim. As Kristof said, this was a shot across the bow of all the players involved.

Now , the ball is in Cheney's court and to a lesser extent,the president's.

After all, did Watergate end with the arresting of the burglars?

[madrchsod]

41. two years isn`t actually two years

the jury meets twice a week if they have enough people..there are breaks in the grand jury that may last several months. it is unknown just how many days the grand jury actually meant in those two years. more important he spent around 750,000 on this no tens of millions for a blow job. he`s not done.

[yowzayowzayowza]

18. Ahhh, but then does the scandal:

Wilson Civil Lawsuit?

[No Exit]

19. Yeah! This doesn't prevent the Wilsons from suing Rove's fat little

ass. And every indication says that they're going to. And I can't wait.

[BlueManDude]

21. It's a limited whitewash

the crimes were too apparent and important and blatant to ignore but he has neither the resources nor the balls to take it all the way.

Frankly it was more than I expected from the guy. He'll soon run for US Senate and all the GOPers who today are itching to slime him will sing his praises - and vice versa here on DU.

[3trievers]

22. he's fair

Unlike the rest of the prosecutors of the past ,I believe Mr Fitzgerald is an extremely fair-minded man who will not throw charges around to smear people and ruin reputations just for political purposes.I think if you are charged by his G.Jury; he has the goods on you.Sometimes,like this case,I wish he was a ken starr clone and toss in every conceivable rumour.This crime organization deserves it but I am also very proud to know there is still an honourable man to be found in government.Lately I have begun to wonder.If he charges higher up the ladder you can be assured the case has been made IMHO.

[Pepper32]

29. Get a grip. This is Fitz MO. There is a 'familiar Ring to it'.

From the AP August 27, 2003, Wednesday, BC cycle

When asked, Fitzgerald would not comment on whether "Official A" was Ryan.

From the Chicago Daily Herald April 3, 2002, Wednesday All

But despite branding two of Ryan's former top aides and his campaign committee as corrupt, Fitzgerald would not say if the investigation will eventually reach Ryan. The vast majority of the corruption uncovered so far happened under his watch when he was secretary of state from 1990 until 1998. The governor has not been accused by prosecutors of any wrongdoing in the past, and Tuesday's indictments did not include him.

"I cannot answer that question," Fitzgerald said when asked about any Ryan involvement. "We cannot discuss people not charged in the indictment."

More: http://www.archpundit.com/archives/013064.html
http://www.archpundit.com/archives/013065.html

Ryan was later indicted http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-ryan18.html



edited:typo

[Pepper32]

48. corrected link to article

http://www.suntimes.com/output/ryan/ryan06.html

[emulatorloo]

50. thanks for the history - Fitz is being real circumspect, as he should be.

EOM

[NNN0LHI]

35. Then you are about to be pleasantly surprised

First thing Fitzgerald is going to do is call back some (not all) of the original people who testified to the first grand jury to have them testify in front of the new grand jury.

He will be asking them if there is anything they may have forgot to mention the first time they testified and if they would care to now add anything to their previous testimony.

Then he will go from there.

Hint: Most if not all of the people will have something to add after seeing that Scooter is now facing 30 years for lying and have come to the realization that Fitzgerald is not playing games here.

Don

[kentuck]

63. That would be nice...

I'm trying not to be a pessimist, but only to temper this discussion with some possible realities. It is possible, is it not?

[hiabrill]

76. I'm glad you're optisimtic...

Waiting for a trial before further indictments is just too much, but I'll try to be patient.

[madrchsod]

37. you need to follow his destruction

of the ryan republican machine in illinois and stay tuned in for the hobbling of the daley democratic machine. we here in illinois have a front row seat in watching fitzgerald at work...it`s not pretty if one is on the wrong side of him.

[davsand]

51. Fitz in Illinois has been nothing short of amazing.

Partly, I think a lot of DUers don't realize what a deeply ingrained tradition we have here in Illinois of corrupt politics. If you can survive Illinois politics you are able to swim happily in Tammany Hall and every other corrupt political machine known to man. From 1976 up to 2002 the IL GOP owned the Governor's mansion here in Illinois.

Prior to that it was one continuing merry go round of suspect political fat-cats that all ended up indicted for something or another. My personal favorite story was about the Sec of State that died while in office and they found shoe boxes FULL of cash hidden in his closets. He avoided indictments because he was dead, but the cash was traced to individual fees that were payable to "Paul Powell, Sec of State."

Here in Illinois, we had a family that was killed when the minivan they were driving was hit by a semi trailer and engulfed in flames. On investigation, it was discovered that the semi driver had bought his license from the office of the Sec of State, who was later to become Governor, George Ryan. That driver BOUGHT the license without passing any exams at all. THAT really started the investigations rolling.

Fitz was the prosecutor brought in to clean it up. In spite of decades of GOP control and cover-up, Fitz went thru it step by step to finally link it all up. He took down some small fish along the way up the GOP food chain, but it was a process--it was never a case of him standing up and yelling "Eureka! I have busted you all!"

Turns out he DID finally get the goods because George Ryan IS currently on trial here in Illinois. All the ones who have been tried before this have been convicted, and there is a pretty real hope that Ryan will go down too...

I know that several of you here on DU get real tired of the IL folks singing praises of Fitz, but I am telling you this guy is like some kind of guided torpedo--once you turn him loose he's gonna find his target no matter how many evasive tactics it uses.

Fitz doesn't seem to be too worried about personal repercussions when he's on the hunt either. That is why we talk about him with the Gambino prosecution. Remember, those guys kill people they dislike (rather like the BFEE if you've looked at any of those threads.)

Something else to bear in mind in it all? Fitz is in a position to bring down an entire administration. He can take out an entire organization with his investigations. As a prosecutor, this is way beyond career making--it is the stuff of history. He has the opportunity to go into the history books along with the guys like Elliot Ness, Woodward and Bernstein... I don't think he's gonna blink.

I trust Fitz.

Just my Illinois perspective.



Laura

43. fitz continuing investigation

I also got the general impression, he was tidying up on this whole matter, but then maybe this is how he plays the game, and you really cannot read him. From what I have read about the way he has gone after corruption in Chicago, then he will go a lot further with this case.

It would be good to hear from people who really know him as to how they read the tea leaves.

[Pithy Cherub]

49. Fitz had the bulk concluded in 2004. The criminal bush bots

are the stalling parties, NOT Fitz. Fitz is not going to expose evidence without getting what he wants. His visit BEFORE the press conference to Bush's personal criminal attorney was a clue. The news then reports that bush watched that press conference very closely. Then bush praises the prosecutor. Fitz was not mopping or wrapping up when he went to visit the president's criminal attorney.

Fitz is going to out wait everybody and then lower the boom. Past behavior is indicative of future performance. Fitz has an MO when it comes to prosecution and they start out small and then grow to epic size. Futz has an open deal with a GJ and people who are still dealing. Go Fitz!

What everybody has to have that is difficult to come by, is patience. Fitz is exceedingly patient.

[Marr]

53. You could very well be correct.

I would've agreed with you 100% just a couple of days ago, but now I'm not so certain. I'm not *expecting* additional indictments, but I'd say that it's at least a real possibility. We'll see.

In the meantime, a criminal indictment of a WH staffer is pretty damned amazing, and it seems to be opening up a new public dialogue on how the Bush Administration lied us into Iraq. It's already a victory, IMHO.

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. I keep saying for a reason, bone up on Watergate

[brentspeak]

55. Exactly. It. Is. Over.

Time to focus on other things.

[emulatorloo]

70. It. Is. Over. When. Fitz. Says.It. Is. Over.

which he has not said.

At any rate, we can still focus on other things as we watch and publicize this.

[DearAbby]

71. Did we watch the same conference...Please Site where Fitz said

this is it folks the case is solved...halaluah amen! Where did he say that the investigation is over...Where did he say that Rove or anyone else is no longer in legal jeopardy...because I sure as hell must have missed it. :shrug:

[CatWoman]

56. Kentuck

this is the only time I've disagreed with you.

[kentuck]

64. I hope I am proven wrong..

You're one of my heroes, CatWoman! :)

It just seems there would have been more after two years?


peace

[speedoo]

57. This analysis says you are wrong.

It's very good.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5222089&mesg_id=5222156

[donco6]

60. It's possible, but I don't think so.

From all the previous experiences with indictments, it seems the investigation is left open because testimony reveals other paths to follow. It happened with Iran/Contra, it happened with Whitewater, and I think it will happen here, too. I think Rove will be indicted certainly. It's questionable whether it will go further. I think we may see Cheney required to testify after a long battle. The guy could croak on us in the meantime - he doesn't look well.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Der Blaue Engel]

81. Welcome to DU, obsqueesha...what an interesting name

:hi: What does it mean?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

73. Yep...your post is right on schedule. I try very hard not to respond...

...to your posts, but sometimes your comments make me so angry that I have no choice but to respond. IMHO, your negativity is either part of your own personal make-up, or you are here for purposes other than those espoused by DU.

Just my opinion.

[kentuck]

74. You're entitled to your opinion....

I hope you will give everyone else the same coutesy? I'm sorry you are so eaasily angered... must be the conservative genes you were born with?

[FreedomAngel82]

75. I think he is far from being finished

Why else would he visit Bush's lawyer?

[LunaC]

77. Fitz still has two unanswered questions

Who compromised National Security by revealing classified information re: Plame's association with the CIA and was it innocent, reckless or malicious? Even though Libby has stonewalled him from answering the questions (which is suspicious in and of itself) Fitz intends to get to the Bottom Line with or without Libby's cooperation. He plans to continue his investigation with a new GJ. It's not over yet.

From the Fitz news conference:

"This is a very serious matter and compromising national security information is a very serious matter. But the need to get to the bottom of what happened and whether national security was compromised by inadvertence, by recklessness, by maliciousness is extremely important. We need to know the truth.

"I will not end the investigation until I can look anyone in the eye and tell them that we have carried out our responsibility."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/28/politics/28text-fitz.html?pagewanted=all&oref=login

[mbee]

78. I think he has more in store because he said something like - just take

a deep breath WHILE WE DO WHAT WE HAVE TO DO or something like that. What they have to do has not yet been shown, but it will be!

[Justice Is Comin]

79. You don't lease additional office space,

have one of the main targets attorneys issue a written statement saying my client is still under investigation, and have a history of saying the case was close to being wrapped up a year ago...and then a year later have a five count felony indictment from someone who is about to be enjoying a lakeside vacation anytime soon.

This investigation has just now gotten out of the muddy water into where we can finally see the bottom. Now we're going to see what's down there.

[kentuck]

80. God, I hope you all are right!

The country deserves a break from these criminals.