Flame on: Defeatist DU'ers and trolls killing our momentum in unison...

[goodboy]

Let me first say, I'm not going to call anyone out.

DU'ers: What the fuck is wrong with you? It's one thing to be cynical,it's another thing to be a "realist" but when you start spouting Repuke talking points while you whine about how "we wuz robbed" or "I'm not happy with the investigation" or "the prosecution was lame" or "It's over, we're screwed"

Bullshit. Why don't you at least learn everything you can about it before you make an ass out of yourself? You're freakin' out because there's only been one indictment? You think that means it's over?
For fuck's sake people, Fitzgerald once indicted 1 person in order to put pressure on the others, and ended up with 60 FUCKING INDICTMENTS!
Read the transcript from the press conference! Fitzgerald said several times that he's not done, he's going to get to the bottom of it, that he feels this is a very serious crime and he'll not rest until he can look anyone in the eye and say he did everything he could! He said that this crime PUT US ALL IN DANGER! The guy charged and prosecuted Gambino Mafiosos and Al-qaeda terrorists goddammit! You think he's going to let some traitorous domestic terrorists get away? FUCK NO!

If you don't want to help us by researching, writing letters, emailing stories and following leads, that's fine. But please, for the love of (insert deity), don't provide aid and comfort to our enemy by taking the same position and regurgitating the same talking points!
STAY POSITIVE, STICK TOGETHER, WORK TOGETHER! The only way the pukes can win is if they divide us! That's what they've done in every election, and that's what's happening on this board!

The Repukes are in their 'last throes' Let's drop a holy smart bomb of truth on their lying greedy criminal fat anal-cyst crusted hypocritical fascist theocratic ASSES!

Trolls: FUCK YOU! You know you're fucked! That's why you're coming here to disrupt! Why don't you special ed. flunkies go to Iraq already and fight them there before they come to your house and steal your Nascar jacket and burn your confederate flag and nazi memorabilia. You're so insignificant, not even an IED would waste itself blowing you up.

I feel better now...I'm gonna drink one more beer and go to bed.

[dchill]

1. ***** (Excellent)

[melody]

2. Amen and then some. Good post.

[Selatius]

3. There's a lot of corruption in the system

Frankly, I don't blame them for having so little faith in a system that has constantly abused them. Who wouldn't get a bit cynical after dissecting the machinations of Congress and the White House? Y'know, the notion that the US is becoming Rome is gaining traction day after day because there's a growing concern we, too, will fall to greed.

[Wilms]

5. All well and good, however...

alot of the gloom I've seen dispensed, of late, would be dispelled by simply reading the transcript/watch the video of the Fitzgerald presser. Perhaps twice (I found it even more enjoyable the second time).

Then come in and voice legitimate concerns given, for instance, Iran/Contra/BCCI and pardons.

[goodboy]

21. If you really pay attention to WHAT Fitzgerald says and HOW he says it

there is no other conclusion...


<>


They're FUCKED.

And we can help. THIS IS WHAT THE DU IS ALL ABOUT!

And I don't want to turn on my TV without seeing ads telling the awful truth about Bush, and how his arrogance, mental-retardation, incompetence and illiteracy is killing the country and the world.

They're down. They're extremely vulnerable. Now's the time to kick them right in their nuts while they're down!

Finish them.

End them.

[Traveling_Home]

38. Disability

Don't appreciate your analogies to persons with mental retardation. Your explicit extremist prejudice towards persons with disabilities is showing and is pretty ugly.

[goodboy]

41. Right...I'm giving up "explicit extremist prejudce towards persons

with disabilities" for Lent.

Lighten up.

[Selatius]

62. Man, what are you smoking?

You totally missed the crux of his post and instead zero in on an unfortunate choice of words. Unless you can demonstrate a clear, consistent pattern where he continuously denigrates the mentally handicapped, you are grasping at straws.

[Traveling_Home]

65. Unison

Let's see - a post aimed at getting all of us to stick together is written in such a way as to denigrate and alienate and separate out as lesser one of the strongest communities of democratic supporters - persons with disabilities and somehow pointing that out is harsh. Messenger and message stuff.

Sorry folks - can't go home with ya on this one.

[RandomKoolzip]

87. Hey goodboy! You're right!

Come see the evidence.

[Selatius]

196. Now you are misrepresenting my position

I'm simply pointing out that the issue you raised was beside the point he was trying to get at. I never judged your message to be harsh as you are trying to assert, so I will not defend such a position because that was never my position to begin with.

Sorry folks - can't go home with ya on this one.

Have a nice day. :)

[Joe Chi Minh]

156. People can be handicapped in many ways,

very often in ways that are not normally designated as "handicaps".
However, people who suffer from any afflictions involuntarily should realise that when bad individuals behave VOLUNTARILY in a way that can be assimilated to such an involuntary affliction, it does not reflect badly on themselves, or indeed the person who compares their defective behaviour with the shortcomings of people afflicted in that way through their own choice.

There are indeed many, many people with severe afflications who make light of their afflictions, to the point of joking about them. That is the mature way of dealing with an affliction.

There was a top-class Dutch soccer player who played for Celtic. He wanted the going rate for his exceptinal talents, but his club chairman was a rapacious parasite, who renegued on an oral promise he had made concerning a pay rise based on performance.

The newspapers, who - surprise, surprise - were on the side of the chairman, reported that, in response to the Chairman's pathetic, new pay offer, the striker asked, "What does he think I am, a "down and out" (can't remember the exact expression, but it meant a homeless person)! Of course, they played it up noo end, but the point was that only the perverse worldling could take that as an insult, but since he was addressing the actions of just such an individual, it was a very apposite way to brand him for his mean-spiritedness.

If Christ or his Apostles, or any Christian, in principle, were to be called an indigent, or compared to a homeless person, they should take it as a compliment. Such people are more than the salt of the earth. Most of them are super-spiritual people.

However, in the context of the market place, and more specifically the market place for labour, it is strange but true, and perhaps even a healthy phenomenon, that, if we do our jobs well, we gauge how we are valued by our employer by the price placed on our service to him.

Consequently, the soccer player's words should be viewed in that context. Not as an insult, in principle, but solely to the person it is addressed to, within a particular context. If a person behaves in a stupid way - as highly intelligent (in worldly terms) people do, as well as the rest of us, then it is perfectly reasonable and not at all insulting to a person who is mentally deficient through no fault of his own, for his involuntary condition to be used as a "weapon" with which to beat someone who has no such excuse for his lack of good sense. Do people who are crippled never call people idiots? I would be surprised if that were the case.

[Arkana]

163. Um, I don't think he was denigrating the mentally retarded...it certainly

applies to Dumbya.

[jarnocan]

42. I agree HAPPY H! & WCW 11/2 do something worthwhile PLEASE

It is better that Libby is indicted on a lesser charge, than if he becomes a fall guy for his master, and the others.
But don't just sit around and wait especially on NOV, 2nd. www.worldcantwait.org http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupID=100744693&Mytoken=88BE1BAE-05D0-4370-99F563C69212BFB1475720593 WCW at My space

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RandomKoolzip]

63. I think you're the only DUer who wants to "shoot" "Them fascist pigs."

We just want criminals to be caught and be brought to justice. Isn't that what both parties want? For me, and for almost all of DU, what "justice" means in this case is impeachment, resignations, possible prison time, disgrace, and the Bush Empire's exile from politics.

"Shoot"ing?! "Right on, brother?" If you're going to parody the left, at least update your jargon. It's the right that's still stuck in the 60's, still panty-twisted about feminism and anti-war protestors and civil rights, still thirsting for political revenge on a battlefield that's been deserted for decades.


At least you spelled "fascist" correctly.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RandomKoolzip]

71. Did you forget your meds or are you on too many?

Give me a link that says Al Franken advocates shooting politicians, and I'll lay off.

Wow. Gonna be a weird day.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RandomKoolzip]

78. OOPS! Just outed yourself!

"Comrade Jane?!" Yeah, that's how most people refer to Jane Fonda. IF they're batshit nuts, that is.

BTW, that Al Franken quote is a joke. If you honestly can't tell the difference between satire and advocacy (and it's obvious that you, for the purposes of this discussion, are trying your best not to), then I don't know how I, or anyone, can help you.

Have a good day!

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RandomKoolzip]

86. "Comrade?!"

This is 2005, sir.

[Bridget Burke]

80. Your source: "Exposing & Combating Liberal Media Bias"

Really reliable source.

[astroBspacedog]

69. My trolldar is beeping.

Yuck !

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RandomKoolzip]

85. I could come up with a similar list of rightist "comrades"

who have advocated the execution of Clinton (for, um, getting a blowjob. Oh, and that failed land deal, too. Yup. Okay, for being a Democrat.) but would that be a productive use of my time? Or yours?

[SidDithers]

91. Enjoy your stay...

:hi:

Sid

[goodboy]

76. Could you please give attribution to my quotation in your post?

[Joe Chi Minh]

148. Precisely!

[Maraya1969]

201. But the change has to start with US - the PEOPLE that they are SERVING

We will not show weakness. It is just not acceptable anymore.

For Chrissake the right wing nut jobs sing "Onward Christian Soldiers" all the time. It's high time we do too, (substitute Democrat for Christian)

[Selatius]

209. The question is do people want change?

Are most Americans still comfortable? Even if they aren't, we couldn't see the pictures because the corporate news media won't report it, and it's also the corporate news media that is, intentionally or not, propagandizing the people through omission of important stories that affect us all.

[Maraya1969]

212. That is one of the reasons for mass emails. That is what the Christian

Right/Wrong did and they fill there's with lies. We have the truth on our side.

Besides that the majority of Americans think the country is "going in the wrong way" The majority think the war is wrong. And as things get worse people will start to pay attention. Months ago most people did not even know who Tom Delay was let alone that he was being investigated. Now most have seen him on LOCAL news. And the same with Libby.

Plus people are really pissed at the price of gas and watching New Orleans didn't help either.

If my died in the wool Repub mother can say she is "starting to become unhappy" about this administration then they are definitely going down the toilet.

[goodboy]

214. BINGO! once we get our conscience back, that is. more death until then..

[Why Syzygy]

4. I'm keeping the faith.

No nay-sayers for me. Thanks.

[Blue_In_AK]

6. That was beautiful, GoodBoy. Thank you.

[Douglas Carpenter]

7. I couldn't agree more

[fleabert]

8. perfection...

thanks for saying it.

[SeattleGirl]

9. Thanks goodboy

I get weary of the defeatists also. I understand, in a way, because we have been slapped down so often but this investigation is not a show of smoke and mirrors, it's REAL, done by someone who seems to be a very ethical, very bright man. And an indictment against someone as high in the whitehouse as Libby, with FIVE COUNTS is also nothing to brush off. None of us know where this is headed, but I do believe that Mr. Fitzgerald meant what he said -- he won't stop until he can look us in the eye and say "I did everything I could."

P.S. Haven't had a chance before, but wanted to thank you for the music you and your compadres provided at Andy's service. I was there, and you and the other musicians added so much to it! Thank you!

[EuroObserver]

160. I agree with you (and others here), SeattleGirl.

He will do as he says: "everything I could."

Admittedly, there may be a certain subtext there; that there will almost certainly be (political, other) pressure applied to prevent him from doing that.

That's where counter-pressure from "We the people" would come in to play...

[goodboy]

215. you're welcome...for everything...(nt)

[HillDem]

10. Hallelujah

Preach it, brother

[choie]

11. OUCH! And bravo.

Couldn't agree more. You have quite the flair for invective, goodboy! My favorite part:

Trolls: FUCK YOU! You know you're fucked! That's why you're coming here to disrupt! Why don't you special ed. flunkies go to Iraq already and fight them there before they come to your house and steal your Nascar jacket and burn your confederate flag and nazi memorabilia.

Oh SNAP! This is passionately righteous vitriol worthy of the great Mike Malloy. Seriously dude, that was a thing of beauty.

:yourock: :rant: :applause:

[chimppyhater]

12. well, sometimes it IS

a bit depressing to get screwed over day after day and there is little that you can do about it..

[SeattleGirl]

14. Agreed chimpyhater, but I do think Fitz is the "real deal"

and unlike inside investigations (the 9/11 commission, etc.), Mr. F doesn't seem to have anything invested in letting these cretins off the hook. So I am optimistic, but also realistic. I believe the dismantling of the Bush neocon cabal has begun, but I also believe that it may not (and probably will not) happen as quickly as we might wish.

[choie]

19. I can totally relate

After the 2004 election I went into a morale tailspin where I could barely stomach turning on the computer. It literally took me months before I reversed my course by turning depression outward into anger.

The thing is, we're doomed if we stop being able to recognize a victory -- even one that starts small -- for what it is. If we allow ourselves to collapse when our high expectations aren't met, we'll never be able to go the distance.

The race to get our country back isn't a sprint. It's a marathon, with all the peaks, valleys, exhaustion, elation, aches and pains this kind of struggle demands.

[goodboy]

23. "The thing is, we're doomed if we stop being able to recognize a victory"

Very poignant.

[goodboy]

22. If you're perception of the ONGOING CIA leak investigation is that

we're getting screwed, then you're wrong.

But there is something you can do about it


get informed. tell everyone else.

[newyawker99]

55. Hi chimppyhater!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[chimppyhater]

149. Thanks...

and may every member of BushCo be tried for treason!

[goodboy]

216. YOU CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!

that's my whole point! don't sit around and feel sorry for yourself, or bitch about getting screwed over.

knock on doors.
write letters.
call your representatives.
make it happen.

[AtomicKitten]

13. Dang.

Um, excuse me, sir, but I'm thrilled with five indictments.
Plus Fitzgerald is yummy.

[whatever4]

36. LOL!!

He's yummy. Oh no doubt, hahah, it's so funny, it's so completely true, he's, uhm whas the word, FINE!

I'm left wondering if he's going to save our nation, thereby saving the world, and wind up with a million marriage proposals too. That'd be sweet, wouldn't it? Maybe the guy doesn't have enough time for a wife, but I'm thinking a few thousand independent types won't mind his dedication. Like being married to a rock star, or, the president. Have to share him with the rest of the world, but OH what a guy to share, eh?

I really do, I hope he winds up with a happy marriage out of this ordeal too. If he's single, I haven't even checked. 'es just cute :) And BRAVE! Oh so brave. There seems to be much to admire about the man. Purrrrr

yeeeeeah, better not share this with my hubby ;)

[AtomicKitten]

145. He's Elliot Ness with a Harvard law degree and a sense of humor.

Plus he just enpaneled a new Grand Jury to deal with ...

[EuroObserver]

159. 44 and still a bachelor, I read somewhere,

and a disaster in the kitchen ;)

[lvx35]

15. I love this post.

not just as an attack, but mostly for the point of staying positive and sticking together. Its fundamentally so much more productive. Even if we were fucked, which we aren't, positivity would still be the best option for getting the best out of the situation.

[Richard Steele]

16. Little Dems in China go to bed with no Fitzmas presents at all....

I could start a rant about how I have learned to
take what I can get, and limit my enthusiasm to
my internet persona....

But I think it might be more constructive if I simply
recommend that all the naysayers take some time
to research the 'Watergate Scandal' which caused so many
problems for that nice Mr. Nixon.

Contrary to what the MTV-styled media portray,
Nixon's crash and burn did NOT happen in 30 minutes!
It took YEARS!

And it started BEFORE "watergate", when a minor player
was indicted on some technicalities...
Does the name "Spiro" ring a bell?
Anybody? Anybody? BUELLER?

And the DIFFERENCES between Nixon and B*sh
do NOT bode well for B*SH!!!!

Nixon tried to repair the damage by being a better president;
B*SH has responded by sticking his fingers in his ears
and flooring the accelerator.

FRIDAY was only the FIRST day of Fitzmas;
there is much more to come.

PATIENCE IS A VIRTUE!!!!

"If you sit by the river long enough,
you will eventually see the corpse
of your nemesis drift past you."

[Talismom]

46. I agree, and to add to the differences between Tricky Dicky and the Chimp

that do not bode well for the latter...

Nixon had not infuriated and alienated the CIA of all groups! That is a powerful ally if you wish to bring down an administration and it makes me very hopeful!

[Liberal Dose]

49. Oh my. I hadn't thought of that but you are so very correct. The ghost of

JFK might tell the chimp that pissing off the CIA is not a good idea.

[Joe Chi Minh]

168. Tee hee. I'd like to think JFK's spirit told Bush it would be a

great idea!

[Liberal Dose]

180. hehehe... snicker... snort... chuckle... guffaw...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

That made me laugh. Hard. Thanks!

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RandomKoolzip]

64. Link? n/t

[EstimatedProphet]

84. Byebye

You have been weighed
You have been measured
And you have been found wanting.

[swimboy]

98. Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin!

Nice work, EP! :applause:

[cannabis_flower]

70. That is so ironic!

You would think that the son of an ex-Head of CIA would know not to get on the CIA's bad side.

[Beam Me Up]

199. Does any of us have a REAL idea what the CIA does or how it does it?

Its not like in the movies (I suspect) and although there are a few good books, WE, at best, are on the outside looking in.

Who are these people?

Who do they serve?

What principals guide their activities?

Given their intelligence resources, how can they be monitored objectively for purposes of oversight?

Who is going to do what if this cold war turns hot?

[Cha]

195. "Little Dems in China"!

How Sweet!

[shenmue]

17. Hey, I'm not feeling bad

I feel pretty good! I'm upbeat! Really!

And I hate the trolls too. There have been a lot of weird interruptions lately. I wish they would go back to, I don't know, trimming their toe hair, or something similarly productive.

[ninkasi]

18. Righteous rant...

and well deserved! I see the Libbey indictments as the beginning of something. There is still a sword over Rove's ugly head. If you've already gone to bed, goodboy, dream of more indictments to come, all wrapped up in bright and shiny Fitzmas paper.

[peace frog]

20. Brilliant rant

Amen and halleleujah, goodboy.

[I_Make_Mistakes]

24. GB I hear your pain, but some of us Repuke Slime woke up and

don't see much difference. I am not going anywhere now, but not everyone here has your commitment. I was depressed about the Rove thing (not sure it's not over), but when you make a big switch and are frustrated by the opposition, please (no buyers remorse), just not sure I bought the right product.

I am going to give it the Pres. cycle, but after that I can not commit to the cause.

[goodboy]

29. I can't argue with anything you said in your post. You're right,

they're two side of the same coin.

Heads gets you:

peace
balanced budget
reduce national debt
affordable healthcare
affordable insurance
affordable gasoline
affordable everything
social justice
team players
transparent and responsible government


then you have the ass...I mean, tails side:

war
poverty
death
corruption
arrogance
makes the national debt EXPLODE
illicit shadow secret government
theocrats


Heads came up on my flip!

[Joe Chi Minh]

171. Cat got his tongue, d'ye think, GB? They never seem to learn

that we use already joined-up writing.

[dmr]

197. Now those are great talking points!

Thanks for creating this thread, goodboy. This thread is good for those new to the political arena and who might, without realizing it, be easily swayed by the naysayers or trolls. But, that is their goal, I suppose.

Part of the problem, too, is the instant gratification society in which we live. The impatient idea that if we don't get what we want now, we are being cheated. Life lessons teaches us that the best things in life takes time; and this case will take deliberate time.

I trust him. I have faith in him and his team. I told my teenage son that his press conference reassured me that all hope is not lost. Mr. Fitzgerald is showing us that the United States of America in which George Washington once sacrificed and fought for and who established the standards for all future presidents is still a country that can rise above the abyss the neo-cons spit on in the guise of patriotism .

My son said to me that he wished we could find 7 Patrick Fitzgeralds to put on the Supreme Court.

Listening to Mr. Fitzgerald speak last Friday, I choked up and got teary-eyed when he spoke directly to each and every one of us, and I heed his words:

"... But what we need to also show the world is that we can also apply the same safeguards to all our citizens, including high officials. Much as they must be bound by the law, they must follow the same rules.

So I ask everyone involved in this process, anyone who participates in this trial, anyone who covers this trial, anyone sitting home watching these proceedings to follow this process with an American appreciation for our values and our dignity.

Let's let the process take place. Let's take a deep breath and let justice process the system. ... "

Thanks again for a good thread.

[goodboy]

206. He's a patriot alright. This thing is so big, it's hard to take it all in

Thanks for your gracious compliments.

[Justice Is Comin]

25. There's no such thing as

a little bit dead. You better think about that repukes. And then think who the Dr. Kavorkian is that's working on your boys. :beer:

[tsuki]

26. Ramen!

Thanks for the great rant.

[zippy890]

27. Defeatist Dems & Trolls - read this

'Fitz's Knuckle Ball'

http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2005/10/29/20254/872

"...he (Fitzgerald) has the goods, and that he won't hesitate to drop the dime on some additional malefactors, particularly, Cheney...."

Read the whole article, this lawyer explains things well, and it will give people hope that this process is just getting going.

[goodboy]

31. THIS GUY NAILS IT!!! PERFECT!!! This first paragraph is AWESOME>>>>

The indictment of “Scooter” Libby, ONLY Scooter Libby, and ONLY on investigation- related charges (perjury, obstruction of justice, lying to investigators), is bound to be misinterpreted (read: spun), by ideologues on both sides of the political spectrum. Lefties (in addition to being disappointed that their favorite bête noire, Karl Rove, has seemingly evaded the prosecutor's net) will feel like some of the wind has been knocked out of their sails because no crime was charged in connection with the underlying revelation of Valerie Plame's identity (a key element in their assertion that such revelation was motivated by the need to discredit a vocal critic of administration's casus belli for the war--Iraq's possession or acquisition of nuclear weapons capability). And righties will revel in that same fact (i.e., since no crime was committed by the Plame outing, the outing was nothing more than a legitimate defense against the attack on the motivation for the war--in other words, politics as usual).

But, to continue Patrick Fitzgerald's somewhat tortured baseball analogy, there is no reason either for joy or sorrow in Mudville. Mighty Casey (a/k/a Fitzgerald) has, in essence, taken a base on balls, four (or, in Libby's case, five) lousy pitches, none of which he could really swing at, much less hit out of the park. And, just like a base on balls does't count as an at-bat, in some ways Fitz still hasn't stepped up to the plate. But, I suggest that what he may have done is to cork a bat for his next up.

Yesterday's indictment was dictated by time more than anything else. With the grand jury's term expiring today, if any indictment was going to be returned, this was the day, and I, for one, don't question Fitzgerald's statement that Libby's obstruction of the investigation prevented him from getting to the truth about the so-called “underlying” charges (e.g., those associated with outing a CIA operative). Indeed, the obstruction charged against Libby prevented the prosecutor from furnishing the one element of the underlying crimes that may be the most difficult to prove: mens rea, as it's known in the criminal law (i.e., a culpable state of mind). But, be assured: the last out in this game is still to come, and the indictment is a shot across the bow for a whole host of characters in this unfolding drama that should indicate to them sighs of relief would be premature.

First, we know that Fitz intends to continue the investigation, albeit with a new grand jury. That's no big deal, since the evidence that was presented to the first grand jury will be available, word-for-word and page-for-page, to the next one for their examination and, if necessary, for further elaboration or elucidation either by the prosecutor or by additional witnesses. In other words, the new grand jury won't be starting from scratch---not by a long shot.

[GayCanuck]

118. I'm gloomy over this

and I'm Canadian! Your man Fitz seems a methodical plodder but after two years I don't hold out much hope and even if he does get Rove and Cheney by the time there are any trials and convictions, bush is back in Crawford clearing brush and won't give a shit.

[Griffy]

147. THIS should be its OWN thread!! its GREAT!!

you found it, so if you dont do it I will later...

read it all the way through people, just the mention of The Hague gives me chills... is it possible we will get ACTUAL justice, THATS a noble cause!

[Pacifist Patriot]

170. Fantastic article. A definite MUST read.

[slor]

28. I feel you...

I am tired of the defeatist posts too. Now I will admit, we do need to reflect on campaigns lost, and the reasons why, but we should always have a plan for the next time, and the ways we can achieve those goals. Just as an example, and I will not name names either, but a few weeks back, I was pushing people to contact their reps, in a effort to support H.R. 3037, which would remove Hemp from the controlled substances use, and hopefully, encourage all the potential benefits of this wonderful plant. I was attacked by one DUer as a pothead (I rarely smoke it, too busy and poor quality where I live), and another person took the time to PM me and attacked and pleaded for me to stop my promotion of it. Said it would never happen. Well it will not, as long as people take that attitude.

Now I will also admit, that we have problems in our own party, but as Cindy Sheehan has said, they should be removed too. We can rebuild a Democratic Party in our own image, one that works for the common good of us all. Visualize victory, my friends, for it is ours to achieve!

[left is right]

30. self-delete

[left is right]

33. let me explain some of the gloom

We know it is a good thing that indictments were handed down and we are grateful for them; however, we realize that real political gain is in the hearts and minds of the populace. bush is truly Teflon coated--nothing sticks to him. Plus, the *cabal are masters of spin and they have a willing press with the means to quickly disseminate all of that spin. Tell lies often enough and have them come from many sources and those lies are perceived as truth. This is what sets the Plame Affair apart from Watergate. The press hadn't completely sold their souls during Watergate.
They are already spinning madly and the press so *co has the advantage time-wise; they have been spinning this since Friday. Fitzgerald, on the other hand, made his statement and left the arena. It's the old saying about armies, "Who gets there first with the most, wins." They make sure they are getting there first.
And then there is Fitzgerald himself. I am sure that he is a good and honorable man, capable of great focus and mental acuity--but let's face it, he is apolitical—not focused on bringing down the cabal. There is a very real possibility that his mission is too narrow in that he only intends to expose the crime of outing a covert CIA agent.

[goodboy]

39. everything in your post is demonstrably false...

Bush is not teflon coated, his numbers prove it


The spin is obviously NOT working.

You have an unhealthy preoccupation/obsession with "spin"
Why? Spin cannot change the facts and reality of the situation...

Fitzgerald's greatest asset is that he is a-political, it makes him immune to their attacks. His focus is not on 'bringing down the cabal'
His focus is on the truth, and he'll find it. THe Pukes have left him enough evidence to put them away. He knows it. They know it.

He's going to do everything right.

He's not taking any chances.

Your assumptions are unfounded.

[left is right]

43. i hope you are right

I want the evil *co to be taken down. As far as spin not working, well it was spin that led people to believe that Saddam was the true master mind behind 911. It was spin that convinced Americans that he had weapons of mass destruction--even though all logic told us otherwise. It was spin that led Christian Fundamentalist to believe that * was a moral leader and so far they have been willing to forgive him of everything-simply because he is a "moral man". Tell a lie often enough and it will be perceived as the truth. That doesn't make it true but most are unwilling to let go of their perceptions.

[Amonester]

120. Spin is not working for them anymore. Au contraire, it's digging

them deeper everytime they "use it."

Why it is not working for them (except for the 30%-something freeps & fundies who are too stupid to see "them" for who they really R...)?

Because those who (recently) woke up from the spin and it's effects have now clearly seen for themselves the "actual & upcoming consequences" of them having "fell" for their stupid spin so far, and those consequences R (mostly):

http://icasualties.org :cry:

http://costofwar.com :wow:

And:


So Something Tells Me Tha They Won't Get Fooled Again... :scared:

Unless All DUers Who Can Do Anything Close To:

"If you don't want to help us by researching, writing letters, emailing stories and following leads, that's fine. But please, for the love of (insert deity), don't provide aid and comfort to our enemy by taking the same position and regurgitating the same talking points!
STAY POSITIVE, STICK TOGETHER, WORK TOGETHER! The only way the pukes can win is if they divide us!" -- goodboy :thumbsup:

Don't (For Some Unexplicable Reason...)... :hangover:

Never Forget And Work For The Truth And Justice To Prevail If You Can.

[Joe Chi Minh]

177. How many times have we heard that before:

"I hope your right..".

Re the spin, that was then. This is now. His mojo is gawn!

He didn't post in double Dutch. Which of GB's other points do you take issue with? And why?

[Maraya1969]

202. Just listen to stupid Ann Coulter. Her spin is done. She is an idiot

an people are starting to wake up. And O'Reily is losing ground also. You can get on their talk shows by pretending that you agree with them and then shoot them down. I've done it. It's fun!

[No Exit]

48. That's just bullshit--Bush is velcro, not teflon

and EVERYTHING is sticking to him!

Yes, it's true: Fitzgerald's mission is not focussed on bringing down the cabal. That's a good thing. If it were, this would bounce back on the anti-Bush partisans and would then be spun to make Bush look like a victim.

But Fitzgerald is more like Hurricane Katrina--he's an equal opportunity force of nature--and as luck would have it, his force benefits US.

Bush is now a lame duck. It couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

[regnaD kciN]

32. Thanks for saving me the trouble...

...of having to write something similar.

:yourock:

[whatever4]

34. Have a brew for me too

'cause I just had minor surgery last week and I can't drink a darn thing, although these little oxy (yeah, I got some oxy) pills do help me forget. Three more weeks, and I'll be walking again, without a limp hopefully, eventually.

But I digress.

"The only way the pukes can win is if they divide us! That's what they've done in every election, and that's what's happening on this board!"

I agree with you completely. Hope everyone else does too. This IS the only side to BE on, the side which opposes the Nazis. I'm a libertarian, traditionally an "ultra-conservative". But I'm here all the same, because any libertarian worth a damn cares about the constitution and the vote over all else. Any conservative goals we share, like low taxes, have been perverted past all meaning by these bastard neocons, and any libertarian that doesn't get that just isn't that bright. Taking away our damn vote and pandering to big business over private interests is COMPLETELY OPPOSITE of libertarian ideals. Its just...not that tough to see, doesn't take a rocket scientist, it REALLLLLLLLLLY doesn't, I'm living proof.

And if we WANT our fucking country back, we'll damn well learn to DEAL with the disagreements among ourselves and fucking get over it. Keep the big picture in mind. Keep your eye on the prize people. WE want to KEEP the right to disagree in a reasonable manner, else, we'll lose ALL our rights. Many capital letters, strong emphasis, we MUST stand together.

Just like me with my leg. Have to take constructive steps to get better, have to deal with the pain, have to not wig out just because it hurts. It's going to get better. Sometimes, surgery is necessary. But it's no reason to give up, no reason to get bitchy, and NO reason to bite the hand that feeds you.

Now, don't worry about me on the oxy pills. I'm not Rush ;) Though I must admit he has good taste, these things are great for pain, I've got to admit. And NO I'm not sharing ;)

[goodboy]

40. It's country before party...we're all americans! well, except those

traitors in the bush admin.

[EuroObserver]

167. I'm constantly reminded of the 1930s-40s German experience.

After the war, and the fall of that attempt at domination of the world through fascism (=corporatism+militarism+politics), we in other countries/cultures were constantly asking: how could the German people allow that to happen?

The vast majority of Germans are, and were, of course, thoroughly ordinary decent respectable people, on both sides of the (normal) political spectrum.

Well, imho, it's not even necessary to study in depth the socio-political history of those times. What's important is that a vital lesson has (should have) been learned: Whatever it costs, we the (in this case international) people are not going to allow that to happen again!

Y punto.

[thinkingwoman]

35. Recommended

The thread calling Fitzgerald's prosecution so far "lame" was the worst.

[Window]

37. Hear, hear.

Peace

[HeeBGBz]

44. Right on. What's with all the gloom and doom?

I am having a field day watching the repukes squirm and spin.

[goodboy]

185. The two groups have different motivations/intentions, same results.

Trolls playing the 'misery loves company thing'

"man, this sucks...only one indictment?"

"Fitz blew it, he could've had Rove"


DU'ers failing to see past their own noses, and upset because Fitzgerald isn't recklessly charging everyone setting himself up for a showdown on an ill-prepared prosecution, but methodically, and accurately nailing the Repuke's to their cross, one.nail.at.a.time.

[druidity33]

45. target their moral stance...

how can these people still support the * regime? HIT EM LOW AND HARD! I agree... we should use their language against them...

(side note: i'm a druid, not "christian")

try Matthew 7- the whole darn thing is relevant...
Matthew 5- sermon on the mount is perfect...

try to point out to his core base how he's betrayed their "religious ideals" and we'll have him down from both sides. We know how powerful dissent among the ranks is... turn it against them!

Peace Please!

[Liberal Dose]

47. YES! Thank you! Well said! Bravo! Encore!

:applause: :yourock:

[underpants]

50. What was funny was comparing DU to MSM

Over the weekend I caught some of the 24 hour cable networks' coverage and they were a whole lot more pessimistic about W et al than DU was on Friday. Everyone now agrees that Rove is "A" and that he is still under investigation. McClellan has been publicly embarassed (read:used). Nothing is even close to over.

That is what I got out of MSM over the weekend.

[nashville_brook]

79. is that holy shit?

just wondering about your tag.

[underpants]

137. Holy, flying

whatever works for you.

:bounce:

[zanne]

51. It has morphed into an issue of free speech on DU.

Since Friday, I have called a "freeper", a "Doom and Gloomer", a "pessimist" and more. Before I logged in on Friday morning, I felt that I was one of many people on DU who were disappointed that only one indictment had come down and the lack of new information that came out of two years of investigation. So I posted the way I felt. I was flamed like never before. The attack was immediate.

Some of the people who were thinking of posting on DU have been sufficiently discouraged from doing so, after seeing the insults that have been hurled at the very few posters who have dared to have an opposing opinion.

When did we become "sheeple"? There have been posts in the past that have really rankled me and I responded to them, but I never even hinted that they didn't have a right to their opinion. A few days ago, a poster who will not be named by me actually suggested to the moderators that us "Gloom and Doomers" should have to go to a separate thread to post our opinions. Is that what DU has come to? (I'm no freeper, as all of my previous posts will prove). What's up, people?

[goodboy]

57. Why do those on the losing side of an argument always say that?

No zanne. you haven't been able to grasp the meaning of what happened on Friday, so your posts have been dangerously ill-informed.

It's not that you shouldn't have a different opinion if you feel that way, but it doesn't change the facts of the matter.

If you truly want to see BushCo in prison, why not get on our side and learn the facts? Don't help our enemy by reinforcing their beliefs.

[zanne]

58. OK. I'll shut up. nt

[goodboy]

89. Don't shut up...WAKE UP! We need your help! Read, learn, understand!

then get busy!

[Griffy]

151. PLEASE.. dont shut up... as long as your mind is open..

you should speak up! And if some people are lashing out at anyone that doesnt see what they see, we should not ask them to shut up either! In the hours and days after the indictment came out, people were all over the place... I too was not happy that Rove had escaped this round. But (unlike some others) I remained mostly calm, and did some more reading and listening. (Progressive talk is great, call in and speak out) The most important thing I learned is that this type of thing moves slower than growing coral, but as it builds it makes a solid foundation! If we look to Watergate we can see the slow pace of events.

So relax.. take a deep breath and smile, because no matter how you slice it, great victory or minor one... this was NOT good for bush and in fact may lead to real justice.

my wife has a bumper sticker on her car... it says,
"Speak your mind, even if your voice shakes"

.. and when she first put it on I thought it was kinda silly... then a year later I found my voice shaking as I confronted people at the White House at a rally on Jan 6th. This person said I was a traitor and should be shot. All that because I thought bush rigged the election, and wanted investigation.

so speak up.. Be the MEDIA and the truth will prevail!

[nashville_brook]

75. my observation is that DU is trying their level best to "help" the DEMS

as in the "democratic party" which happens to have a built-in contradiction for life-long dems who love their party but see it going to the dogs with the big bucks.

the dem party has forgotton about US -- the people. as above so below.

[goodboy]

88. It's no longer the party of the people..not like it used to be. I think

that is why they can't win elections (that aren't stolen) is because there's not much of a noticeable difference between them and the repukes.

[nashville_brook]

124. it's the same mistake made again and again.

for the record -- imo Gore makes H. Clinton and Kerry seem like Spector and Hatch.

we need LEADERSHIP not political posturing. we need statesmen. not pollsters.

think about his for a moment -- the general feeling here seems to be that we all need to sit down and shut up and get behind whoever is nominated. okay, granted. but what if the chosen one isn't H. Clinton or W. Clark. What if the chosen one reflects the values of those DEMS who are being silenced?

i'm not going to offer my idea of the way this plays out. just imagine.

[mzmolly]

129. I think the general idea is to hash stuff out in the primaries and come

together against the R's in the end.

[EuroObserver]

169. Problem is, it seems eg. Ted Kennedy

doesn't want to stick his neck out too far.

Clark looks more noticeable as time goes by. I'm waiting to see his response to all this...

Then there are true heroes like Conyers, of course.

[goodboy]

207. We need to do some serious house cleaning and get those

fake, disingenuous sellouts out of our party.

[Joe Chi Minh]

178. Just don't say it doesn't matter who you vote for, they're all the

same, GB, will you. They use the Beltway people to divide. Concentrating on the New Deal fighters is the best way of beating the Beltway Democrats.

[goodboy]

213. I would set myself on fire before I voted for a repuke, or a DLC puke lite

[mzmolly]

102. Yea, that's why Dean is the DNC Chair.

WE THE PEOPLE made that happen.

Dems have to get back in office to work for us, and yet the defeatist "wah wah brigade" is taking part in making sure that doesn't happen. Dems are in the minority, I'll say it again, DEMS ARE IN THE MINORITY, WTF do you think they can do?

[nashville_brook]

127. agree wholeheartedly that DEMS are a congressional minority.

but DEMS working to make a stronger party aren't the enemy.

[mzmolly]

128. But Inde's claiming they'll leave the party if .. are the enemy.

Most have already left and come here simply to stir sh*t up.

I've always been ABB, and I've had harsh criticism for various candidates in the primaries - but I've made it CLEAR that any of the candidates I had a problem with in the primary race, would have my zealous support as a candidate against a Republican nominee. I know THERE ARE MAJOR DIFFERENCES that deserve serious consideration at the voting booth. I don't expect perfection.

[nashville_brook]

126. see -- now this sucks too -- the problem here is BAD MANNERS

i think there's something about the "way of forum'ing" that invites groupthink. people want to be associated with the poster who get the most votes or shut down discussion most decisively. that's uncool.

i'm generally an "original poster" when i'm not going thru OPP's -- other people's posts. recently i've noticed a REACTIONARY bent to DU. a post goes up and the way it's met is with bullying. responders seem to be interested more in STRIKING DOWN thought than in fostering/facilitating discussion.

folks need to stop running with scissors. it's only 2005 for chrissakes. criticism and dialogue is a good thing NOW. we have to work it out NOW.

btw -- don't worry about FItzie. remember, he's after why the batter was hit and why sand was thrown at the ump. he's not finished. sources for this information are "out there" even if it's difficult finding them here. Fitz is the one mark on the horizon that is providing light. :)

[Independent_Liberal]

52. Thanks goodboy!

It's about time somebody around here shook these people up!

:)

[flyarm]

53. good good goood goodboy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yipeeeeeeeee!! we will not stop and not be detered....freepers be damned!!

and they will be i assure you!!

fly

[lonestarnot]

54. Yes the boards have been stinky the past few days.

Hope you enjoyed your beer.

[StaggerLee]

56. Right on goodboy

And Happy Halloween.

So many tricks have been played on our democracy that it's going to be a real treat to see justice served.

Peace.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dawgs]

66. No way...

If you aren't happy with my opinion then too bad. If I feel that this is over, then I'm going to express it. I'm not going to "be positive", or change my view just to make you(or others) happy.

In saying that, I don't believe this is over. I think this is just the beginning of the end for Bush and his friends.

We have something great here at DU because, as Democrats, we listen to all opinions. I think it's wrong when I read threads like this that tell me to shut up if you're not going to help.

You shouldn't tell anyone not to express their opinion just because it doesn't fit your agenda.

[nashville_brook]

67. DU is really hitting hard times -- the best folks are GONE

gave up a long time ago bc apparently trolls toe the official DEM party line better than big-brained DU'ers with their thinking caps on -- i.e. critical of the party line.

long-time DU'ers who had the temerity to point this out are gone daddy gone. all that's left are newbies, pushovers and trolls.

happy 2006.

[nashville_brook]

74. specific to your point -- these MIA DU'ers would see your point

and could post until their little fingers bleed on long-term strategy involving smoking out the rats. these are the folks who have been saying there's more than meets the eye in this investigation. folks who know more than the daily paper's exposition of events.

but they haven't felt welcome here for a long time.

[geniph]

158. Oh puh-leeze

I've been here since March of 2001. I'm still here.

What are YOU doing in your personal life to make a better Democratic party? Are you working to organize your community, recruit new members as precinct committee officers (or whatever your state calls them), members of your legislative district Dems organization, are you running for office, are you actually out there pounding the pavement to get local, progressive Dems elected?

I'm doing all those things. And I'm still here at DU too. So enough with the woe is me stuff. Go DO something.

[trekbiker]

82. Bullshit... i've been here a couple years and dont agree at all

[nashville_brook]

93. then how come the low count?

could you expand your argument?

[Liberal Dose]

154. February 2005 will be my 1 yr anniversary as a member of DU, and I only

have 271 posts. Well, 272 if you include this one. I have read obvious Freeper posts from some who have a high post count. Post count means nothing. Now I look for a star instead of high post numbers. :hi:
Feel free to welcome me to DU because I have a low number of posts! :D

[mzmolly]

97. Can you expand on that? Are you saying that those who claim

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH, I'M NOT VOTING FOR DEMOCRATS EVER AGAIN because I hate Republicans and Democrats are close on X issue - are more big-brained?

I beg to differ.

I think many of the old trolls are gone, thank goodness! But, I expect they'll all be back to bitch about the lack of a perfect Democratic nominee.

:eyes:

[nashville_brook]

101. no -- the people who have depth and bredth of political and judicial

knowledge. DU is bleeding old timers. this thread isn't about nominations -- but since you bring that up... if you want a nominee who can win you need to be open to criticism as well as positive input.

[mzmolly]

103. If I want constant criticism of our nominee I'll tune into Rove or Nader.

I don't need to hear Right Wing and or Nader talking points at DU. Nor do I consider either position one of great intelligence.

[nashville_brook]

105. who said anything about that -- this thread is about Fitzgerald and DU's

inability to sit with process. that's in direct contradiction to your assertion. you'd think that the DEM line to toe would be to wait it out.

[mzmolly]

108. What I said was that some people are malcontents and if they are

not bitching about our nominee, they'll bitch about X, Y or Z. I don't know what's going to happen with Fitz, but I am pleased about the fact that the highest level WH official to be indicted in 35 years has happened to this deserving administration.

[nashville_brook]

110. yah, it's getting old how everyone is piling on Cindy Sheehan, election

reform and anything that comes along that unites us.

[mzmolly]

111. Who's piling on Cindy Sheehan? I respect Cindy and have never said

an unkind word about her. I disagree with her stance on Hillary, but my child did not die in Iraq so I can't possibly critique her. All I can say is if we care about the future of other kids we better get Republicans the hell out of office.

As for election reform, I don't know anyone who doesn't feel that's necessary. But, it's one of many important issues.

[nashville_brook]

115. the election reformers have constantly fought the "tin foil hat" battle

here. Cindy, if you haven't noticed, is becoming persona non grata precisley b/c she spoke her mind on Clinton. Hillary hasn't won the nomination. we're ALLOWED to have an opinion on her. we're expected to participate in the early process. we're not of one mind. we don't all go to the same church and do what our preachers tell us. we have ideas and experiences that are being silenced. this shouldn't be HillaryUnderground. this shouldn't be ClarkUnderground. it's every DEM's underground and if we can't whisper thoughts back and forth, then what good is it?

[mzmolly]

119. And, I'm also allowed an opinion on Hillary and on refusing to vote for

the political anti-christs. You are correct we are not of one mind, so why do we expect our politicians to be?

As I said, any Dem who will vote to prevent MORE WARS in 06-08 has my full respect, I don't care who they bitch about. Any one who says "my way or who gives a shit who else suffers" has my contempt.

[nashville_brook]

132. oooookaaaay.

not sure who the anti-christs are, but i'll be on the lookout for them.

[mzmolly]

134. Republicans.

It's a figurative term, I don't subscribe to rapture theory. ;)

[nashville_brook]

104. and see -- if you're already bringing up primaries and nominations, then

you are missing the point. we aren't there yet. everyone craves consensus. but it's not time for that now. the DEMS still have to answer to their base.

we'll see, you know -- if there's strength of conviction to oppose this SCOTUS nom. then we'll talk.

[mzmolly]

107. How many Dems = sufficient opposition to you?

Must they ALL oppose the nominee or just a specified number? It seems to me what most of they typical bitchers will demand is a "filibuster" or bust? :eyes:

Democrats can never win with people supposedly on our side, who view them through dirty glass. The all or nothing thinkers here will ALWAYS find fault. And, when they aren't finding fault, they are simply silent. My guess is that's where all your so called "big brained" friends are - being silent. But, never fear because like I said, they'll be back in time to bitch about the Democratic nominee.

[nashville_brook]

113. if this supreme court nomination goes thru

there won't be much reason for a democratic party. they will have a majority for the next 30 years. suddenly their strategy will be about how wonderful the court system is.

the all or nothing folks are the hegemons -- the ones left. not the ones leaving. they drink from dirty cups. they are DEM right or wrong -- that's cool, i've never pulled the lever for a 3rd party -- BUT if you surrender our ability to build a workable platform to a palatable groupthink, then you aren't doing the dems any favors.

the elected dems are not monolithic. why are you so quick to wave goodbye to votes? why so quick to dismiss diversity of voice and interest. i thought that was what the democratic party was all about.

[mzmolly]

116. Me, quick to wave of diversity!? ANYONE who is willing to vote against

Republicans ie. vote for Democrats, has my full support to say and do whatever the F they like. Anyone who is not willing to that has as much political credibility to me as Rush Limbaugh.

However, if people are going to bitch about supreme court nominees and how Democrats (who are in the MINORITY) can't prevent said nominees, as a justification for leaving the party, they can kiss my a**.

These same fools said that the supreme court was NOT a reason to vote for the so called "lesser of evils." Sorry, THEY were wrong then, and they are wrong today. All one has to do is examine the dialogue from 2000 and see who was right.

I have many friends who are "Green" most voted for Kerry b/c they understood what was at stake and they learned a lesson in the past 4 years. I didn't say I told you so.

[nashville_brook]

131. but back to earth -- we actually DO have an option for opposing the

nom AND there's a longview strategy that includes what Fitz it doing.

we have the fililbuster. this is the swing vote. we HAVE TO USE it here. we really don't have a choice.

we didn't lose the election b/c of a third party -- we lost it b/c of FRAUD and the inability of our party to speak up when it happened.

[mzmolly]

136. Just as I suspected. Filibuster or bust.

So, we are allowed individual opinons on various matters, but Democrats are not.

Seems hypocritical to say the least.

Also, we lost the election in 2000 and a third party candidate was INSTRUMENTAL. Further, the same fool attempted to pull the same shit again in 04.

"Democrats have to lose more elections, they didn't get the message the first time." ~ Un-named egomaniacal third party candidate.

[Griffy]

153. which 1 are you? seems an unfounded negative statment...

in fact.. we are all (mostly) American citizens.. and if you think ssome people "left" this site for 1 reason or another.. fine.. I doubt they went to freepland, or the RNC. (unless they came from there). Everyone needs to find their own way to help.. we are not sheeple.. some people want things some of us think is radical, but what we all share is the desire for a true representative government were we could actually discuss these ideas on the merits... not the lobbists!

So I say.. focus on the liars.. THEY are the white noise broadcasters that make real debate impossible.

and lastly.. I am none of the above.. Ive been here a year, Im no pushover, I attend rallies, post first hand experiences from DC, I write the media and I have been on several talk shows as call in, I volunteer with local dem groups and did flushing last year on election day... and I wont even address troll. Basically, your sweeping generaliztion, while perhaps correct for a few... is wholy incorrect and insulting to the rest of us.

[EuroObserver]

172. In my (European) experience, the division of the left,

while somehow quite natural, is usually harmful, unless you have a working system that allows for effective coalition politics (and this is very difficult to achieve).

The right-wing usually doesn't have to deal with this problem. Especially since so many 'unified' parties that call themselves 'center-right' seem to have few problems with incorporating the really nasty far-fascist right.

[nashville_brook]

179. you misunderstand -- my point is that the trolls are getting away with

murder here while 5-digit posters are tombstoned.

[JNelson6563]

72. Nevermind the naysayers Goodboy

Like I tell the District people, "Meeting attendance is good, it's what happens between the meetings that really counts"

Posting and discussing on DU is ok, it's what happens in reality that counts. Do you really think the naysayers are out in the world doing stuff? Doing anything consturctive? Getting undeerfoot to those doing stuff? No, they're not. They are safely out of the way onitificating on DU and other places. Be glad they are occupied and not doing any real harm. I am.

Cheers,
Julie

[trekbiker]

81. Official "A" = Rove = GONER!!!!

this ain't over by a long shot.

[Catherine Vincent]

90. Right on, Good Boy!

:thumbsup:

[mzmolly]

92. I've also noticed a bit of animosity toward Dems again?

:eyes: Thanks for saying what I want to say to some people here on a daily basis. ;)

Recommended!!!!!!!!!!

[maximovich]

96. I Have As Well...

Glad to see others are speaking up.

- stepnw1f

[mzmolly]

99. Seems as though when ever things start looking up we have two different

kind of trolls:

1. Long time trolls who take any opportunity to bitch about Democrats.

2. New trolls who try to emulate the long time trolls so they fake leftist rage.

Nauseating.

:hi:

[maximovich]

139. I Can Promise You...

I'm not a troll. In fact I have been with DU for 3 years now, I think. My screen name at home is stepnw1f. I couldn't log on here at work, so I got a new one.

- stepnw1f

[mzmolly]

140. Oh goodness, I know YOUR not a troll !!!

I was just responding to your reply. ;)

:hi: I know who you are Steppenwolf!

[maximovich]

141. Good Seeing You and Others

Now if I can get away from this web site for just a day!

:pals:

[mzmolly]

142. I hear ya!

:hug: :hi:

[Sir Jeffrey]

94. Amen...

and recommended

:D

[maximovich]

95. RIGHT ON!!!!

Thank you fellow DUer!!!

[ClassWarrior]

100. Awesome goodboy. Hey I heard you on Steph this a.m.!

Remember, repeat after me...

If Bush** had any dignity at all, he'd resign now and spare the nation the shame.

NGU.

[goodboy]

117. I'll say it next time! I'll even source it to you! (nt)

[ClassWarrior]

144. goodboy, you rock!

Let's hear it for the boy...

NGU.

[swimboy]

106. Excellent post!

I'd like to buy you a beer. :toast: :beer: :beer: People are let down because they want instant gratification. The rich vein, the motherlode, has been exposed. The good stuff is coming. And THEN--it's nut-kicking time! :applause:

(Your words reflect the passion of a former DUer I met in Washington. M.Bye, if you are out there, you are not forgotten!)

[SharonRB]

109. You're so right, goodboy

I heard you on Stephie's show this morning. We need to have patience -- I know it's "hard work," but I'm convinced this is just the beginning.

[Vinca]

112. Hey goodboy - tell us what you REALLY think.

:rofl: I agree with you entirely. The reason the pukes are in power is because they stick together no matter what. That's what Democrats need to do. We can have our differences, but let's not broadcast them. As far as Fitzy's investigation goes, there's one thing and one thing only that should be foremost in everyone's mind: IT'S NOT OVER!!!!!

[ginnyinWI]

114. I was thinking same yesterday

I was gone all day yesterday and when I logged in at night was stunned at seeing the change in tone around here in only 24 hours.

So much cynicism! I know some of it is due to trolls, but so many pessimists love nothing more than jumping on the doom and gloom bandwagon! And it does nothing but drag the party down by turning people off and making them lose any hope they still have.

I do believe things are beginning to swing our way, and we need to support it. The short-attention span, instant gratification crowd should just sit on their hands and only read other posts if they can't post something that builds up the Democratic Party.

[understandinglife]

121. Thank you.

Peace.

[ronnykmarshall]

122. I heard ya on Stephanie Miller this morning.

DAYUM!! Stephanie Miller AND Randi Rhodes!!! You rock your butt off!

[goodboy]

218. trying to take my own advice and spread OUR message! thanks for

motivating me!

[VolcanoJen]

123. I'm pretty sure this just became my favorite DU post of all time.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, goodboy.

Especially for that "trolls" paragraph... can I buy you that last beer?

[CatWoman]

125. Kick ass, baby

kick ass.

I'm so sick of the whiney, doom&gloom bullshit too!!!!

:kick:

[Carolab]

130. That's what I'm sayin. Stop the DIVISIVENESS already!!! n/t

[Dawgs]

143. How is this not being divisive?

"Bullshit. Why don't you at least learn everything you can about it before you make an ass out of yourself? You're freakin' out because there's only been one indictment? You think that means it's over?"

[Carolab]

183. Asking people to calm down and wait to see what happens?

How is that divisive?

[Lowell]

133. Great Rant!

Next round is on me. This all reminds me of the Nixon fall. There was a domino effect. We nailed the weakest first then they all fell. I look forward to the whole cabal frog marching to Leavenworth.

Fitz is one tough cookie. I believe he has more indictments up his sleeve and we must be patient and savor each new round of charges.

And yeah, the trolls are getting desperate around here. It is fun to watch them squirm. Treasonous bastards.

[ryan_cats]

135. Hear Hear!

Hear Hear! What he said.

I agree 100%, Fitz is just getting started. I have no doubt Rove is suspect #1 and Cheney is #2.

[MuseRider]

138. Goodboy

this makes twice in one week I can tell you how much :yourock:!

:loveya:

K and R

[kilaana]

146. Yeah!!!

Right on! That's the best pep talk since Belushi's speech in Animal house! :toast: :toast:

This is the beginning of something very big. It will take time to unfold, but it WILL happen.
Have patience, but get the popcorn ready.


From Animal House:
D-Day (Bruce McGill): War's over, man. Wormer dropped the big one.
Bluto: Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Otter (Tim Matheson): Germans?
Boon (Peter Riegert): Forget it, he's rolling.
Bluto: And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough... the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go! What the fuck happened to the Delta I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? "Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Bluto, we might get in trouble." Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this. Wormer, he's a dead man! Marmalard, dead! Niedermeyer -
Otter: Dead! Bluto's right. Psychotic, but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.
Bluto: We're just the guys to do it.
D-Day: Let's do it.
Bluto: LET'S DO IT!!

[northamericancitizen]

194. Thanks and Welcome to DU nt

[AZBlue]

150. BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!

:applause::applause::headbang::bounce::applause::toast::headbang:

[Career Prole]

152. Sometimes it takes a trip to the woodshed.

Well said! :toast:

[geniph]

155. Righteous rant, brother!

TESTIFY! Can I get an A-MEN?

Oops, make that a (r)A-MEN! Hail FSM and all noodly apostles!

157. tidal wave acoming

I hope.

Fitz has been investigating Operation Safe Road for over 7 years.

Totals: 66 Defendants (More than 30 current or former Secretary of State employees)
59 Convicted (54 guilty pleas and 5 trials)
54 Sentenced, 7 Defendants pending (Ryan, Warner, Zlatkovic, Balkan, Swanson, Yanez and Pizarro)
2 Fugitives (Yanez and Pizarro)

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osr/

[gordianot]

161. Right On Sometimes things are worth waiting for.

Just like waiting for the right opportunity to bust my Freeper brother in law in the nose.

I'm waiting.

[Joe Chi Minh]

162. Notice how the "deep cover" operatives come out in force

at critical times for the neocons?

One such character disingenuously questioned why I was talking about morale, motivation, that sort of thing, in response to his foolishly ignorant maunderings and attempts to throw a wet blanket on DUers' jubilation that what had "gone round" was now "coming round", festooned in the brightest of lights and decked in multi-coloured streamers.

Of course, they are well aware that if the whole electorate were sufficiently worldly-wise to be motivated to vote, no right-wing government would ever govern in a democracy. Consequently, it serves their purposes admirably to create the sort of climate whereby their lies about both parties being much the same can find a ready audience of muddle-headed and down-hearted potential electors. But we ain't going to let them are we?

[Generator]

165. Yep I'm putting them on ignore

Not people they disagree with me but people that use language that sets off my propaganda meter. I have had ENOUGH fucking propaganda from Republicons to last the rest of my life. I don't need it from my "friends."

[Pacifist Patriot]

164. Pssstt...

I think it was 66. ;)

I have no doubt this is the beginning of their end.

[Fescue4u]

166. Its just a discussion forum

I understand your frustration.

But don't believe that because a few trolls throw water on a discussion board, that it really affects, well anything beyond the discussion board.

This thing has a life of its own, and would even if DU didnt exist.

[goodboy]

203. DU is NOT just a discussion forum, but rather many things to many people..

We're 70000 progressive activists. We can change the world...but only if we work hard and stick together.

[tomreedtoon]

173. What should we do besides debate each other?

Got a wild idea. Instead of posting back and forth here, where only people who believe pretty much like you will hear you...

...how about going out among your friends and associates and quietly, carefully and confidently start talking about how bad the country is?

And if you start hearing Rush's or O'Reily's talking points coming up, gently turn the conversation over to the real things you hear here? Starting with the price of gas is a good one, since it bothers a lot of people. Why didn't the Republicans start supporting hybrid cars years ago during the first big rise in gas prices - and why are hybrid cars a luxury item for the rich, instead of being the standard car for all Americans?

Another is the bad economy, and why this will be a Hard Candy Christmas for everyone. You can't afford to buy Christmas presents like you used to...the economy and job security is bad...somebody's getting rich, and it isn't most people...could it be...might it just be...the BIG REPUBLICAN-OWNED CORPORATIONS??? Thank you! Hit it, Pearl!

Doesn't this sound like a better way to help change things than standing in the traditional Progressive/Liberal Circular Firing Squad?

[goodboy]

205. That's a great point, and you have come up with some very creative

things to do. Elections are won on the local level. our level. Going door to door is more effective than the millions spent on TV

[mtnsnake]

174. I like your style!

recommended!

[mistertrickster]

175. Yes! To hell with the Republicans. We need to get on our Democratic

leaders and tell them TO SET A FUCKING AGENDA.

Stand up for something. Articulate what you believe. Put together a Contract For America. Have a mid-term election to take back BOTH chambers of Congress.

Get off your dead asses, get organized, and show the American people something.

[redqueen]

176. That was awesome!

:applause:

"Trolls: FUCK YOU! You know you're fucked! That's why you're coming here to disrupt! Why don't you special ed. flunkies go to Iraq already and fight them there before they come to your house and steal your Nascar jacket and burn your confederate flag and nazi memorabilia. You're so insignificant, not even an IED would waste itself blowing you up."

:rofl:

I LOVE IT!

[sepia_steel]

181. Ahhhh thank you. Recommened. nt

[Mr_Spock]

182. Thanks goodboy. I've been thinking the same thing myself lately.

I try to take on the individual defeatists, but all I get is annoyed and frustrated because they deflect and argue like some of our enemy does. I thought we came here to escape the insanity! Perhaps I'll bookmark this post and simply ask the next defeatist to read your post - says all I'd ever need to say to one of these "trolls". :D

[goodboy]

186. Please bookmark, it's the most logical thing to do! How've you been

my friend? doing ok?

[Vektor]

184. Oh, holy shit.

"Let's drop a holy smart bomb of truth on their lying greedy criminal fat anal-cyst crusted hypocritical fascist theocratic ASSES!"

I think I love you.

:loveya:

That. Rules. So. Much.

[CrackpotAmerica]

187. I'm right there with you.

Been there all along:

http://crawfordpeace.nfshost.com/node/7

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=106&topic_id=22396

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=106&topic_id=21251

`http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5213018

... And so forth.

[ailsagirl]

188. kick

[tlsmith1963]

189. I'm Not Really Worried...

...but I can see why others would be. It does seem weird that Fitz would go after Libby but not Mr. "A". I think Fitz isn't done yet, but I can see why the situation could worry people. Hey, it's been a tough few years. We all want these people gone so bad. You can't fault some people for being stressed. I've gone through it myself.

Tammy

[Miss Chybil]

190. "...steal your Nascar jacket..."

ROFLMAO!
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[goodboy]

219. And their belt-buckle...(nt)

[FredStembottom]

191. Let me chime in, too!

I can split hairs with my fellow Dems a hundred different ways - but I won't!

We've been given a last, last, last chance to stop the the advance of, and even recover from, our great national disease.

This is solidarity time.

We work together now. We can indulge the luxury of arguing with each other in some future, far less dire time.

:dem:

[goodboy]

220. how many times have we been handed the bushies on a silver platter

and dropped it in or lap like spaghetti and meatballs.

the only reason they're not in prison is because we haven't put them there.

[Melissa G]

192. Good boy , you MADE my night!

You sooo Rock! :kick:I NEEDED that rant! Here's a Beer Sweetheart!!:beer::toast:
and some Floaty hearts Too!!:loveya: K and R! :yourock:

[EFerrari]

193. goodboy

:loveya:

:hug:

[Spiffarino]

198. That's a great big

...fuck yeah, goodboy! :D:thumbsup:

[Jara sang]

200. Awesome goodboy! I'm With you!

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[BlueIris]

204. Best. OP. Ever.

To the defeatists: get lives, and look at history. Then, go fuck yourselves. Do some real work toward the success we CAN still have, or shut up.

[donheld]

208. Best rant EVER

:yourock:

[merh]

210. You tell 'em, goodboy!

:hug: :loveya:

[LynneSin]

211. Sign me up for your team

:D

[goodboy]

221. this team needs more cowbell! You're in, Lynne! (nt)

[goodboy]

217. The best things are worth waiting for. It's chess...Fitz has them in

check with his first move...they just don't know it yet.

let him play.

watch them squirm.

their defeat will be spectacular.

our celebration will be too.

[goodboy]

222. I TOLD YOU IT WASN"T OVER!! ROVE TO BE SHIT-CANNED SOON!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5250933&mesg_id=5250933



Edited on Thu Nov-03-05 12:16 AM by Halliburton

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

article is posted now

<snip>
Rove faces doubts about his White House status, there are new indications that he remains in legal jeopardy from Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald's criminal investigation of the Plame leak. The prosecutor spoke this week with the lawyer for Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper about his client's telephone conversations with Rove before and after Plame's identity became publicly known because of anonymous disclosures by White House officials, according to two sources familiar with the conversation.

Fitzgerald is considering charging Rove with making false statements in the course of the 22-month probe, and sources close to Rove--whose titles are senior adviser and White House deputy chief of staff--said they expect to know within weeks whether the most powerful aide in the White House will be accused of a crime. ...
Fitzgerald made clear to Rove's attorney in private conversations last week that his client remains under investigation. And he signaled the same in his indictment of Libby on Friday, in which he identified a senior White House official who had conversations related to the Plame leak as ``Official A.'' White House colleagues say Rove is clearly ``Official A'' based on the detailed description.
<snip>