The Libby Indictment ......

[H2O Man]

"(Felt) gave me a little lecture about breaking a conspiracy like Watergate. 'You build convincingly from the outer edges in, you get ten times the evidence you need against the Hunts and Liddys. They feel hopelessly finished -- they may not talk to you right away, but the grip is on them. Then you move up and do the same thing at the next level. If you shoot too high and miss, then everybody feels more secure. Lawyers work this way. I'm sure smart reporters must, too.'"
-- Bob Woodward; The Secret Man; 2005; page91.

By this afternoon, hopefully most DUers will know that in the last week, Lewis Libby's attorney had tried desperately to strike a deal with Patrick Fitzgerald. However, Fitzgerald held out, and Libby would not agree to what the prosecutor demanded. There will be reports that hint that it was an issue of how much jail time Scooter would have to serve that was the hold up. I will suggest that the issue of Scooter testifying truthfully about private conversations he had with another senior White House official is also in play.

The fact that Scooter was eager to strike a deal should put to rest the weak theories that he would be the ultimate tough guy, who would plead guilty to all charges to spare the White House a larger scandal. He is feeling the pressure. By indicting Scooter alone, and not Rove and a half-dozen others, Fitzgerald has insured that Scooter feels the loneliness of the path he is taking. Certainly, Scooter is hoping that President Bush will grant a pardon; however, there have been enough indicators to conclude that George isn't going to be in a hurry to further damage his presidency to save a couple fellows that he needs to distance himself from.

On Friday, there were reports that Scooter was "looking for a criminal lawyer" after the indictments were handed down. Well, the lawyer he had wasn't representing him on a real estate deal. He had a criminal lawyer, and they parted ways for a reason. I suspect that Scooter had made decisions that were not in his best interest, perhaps some misguided effort to protect someone else, rather than listening to his attorney's sage advice to save himself.

In prison, Scooter is going to encounter the tough lessons of that "school of hard knocks," where you learn as you go, and you pay for your mistakes.

[opihimoimoi]

1. "Everyone LOVES a SCOOTER..and everyone should have a model

[Hubert Flottz]

13. Fitz needs to use the waterboarding method of investigating...

It's been approved by the White House, DoD and the DOJ, in order to get some "real answers," PDQ, if not sooner. Hey, it works on those "Hard Core Islamic Heathens" in Iraq, it should really get some quick answers out of a "Great Guy" like Scooty-poot. Turn the dogs from Hell loose on him, and hook the old electrodes to places where the sun don't shine. Bag and tag him, put some ladies draws on top of his head and some poopie all over him. We need to get to the bottom of this ASAP, and now Vee Have Legal Vays of Doing Just Dat.

Put herr Scooter in Abu Ghraib and let him mingle with Abdullah and the many number three men in Bin Laden/Saddam's Terra/insurgent suspect pens there in Iraq.

Seriously...Our soldiers are dying every day, because of this man and his EVIL co-conspirator's.

[opihimoimoi]

25. All vee gatta do is take his ass over THERE to Iraq and Zing his ass

with them electric probes as you say, and watch him sing like a Deviant Diva

Its all legal and OK since we do that on a daily basis with the insurgents...

I could see him in a hood and on a leash with those wires connected to his scrotum....he be sweating a Katrina Flood.

[Hubert Flottz]

31. Did you know that Scooter was a writer of books?

This is so damned funny I thought I'd better warn you about it, I LMAO! Try not to get too fired up and do sumpin I wouldn't do! You may want to wear protection. Larry Flynt ain't got nutin' on ole Scooter!

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/content/articles/051107ta_talk_collins

And the churchies vote for these Pubbie Pervs. Holy Shiza...

The word for today is...‘Arragghrrorwr!’ Scooter invented that!

I sent Keith Obermann the link. I'd laugh till I have a heart attack if he'd mention that on his show and I just wouldn't put it past him.

TOO Good...Too Funny!

[opihimoimoi]

33. Scooter the Porn Writer....OMG...What a Nasty Bunch in the White House...

We should let the Public KNOW about Porn Writer Libby...

What a perv do we have here....Hmmmmmm???

[Hubert Flottz]

34. We should really blast that info far and wide because.

Monica didn't have a thang on Scooter. What a basty nastard. GOPer Family values and shit, in action!

[opihimoimoi]

42. SCOOTER THE PORN FREAK WRITER AKA Pub good guy, works for CHENEY

OOps, used to

Family Values my ass.

[Hubert Flottz]

54. Check this out...

The sexual revolution vol II, is under way...www.arragghrrorwr.com

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5228530&mesg_id=5228530

[opihimoimoi]

60. Darn Yarn .com site??

Is this a secret place where code is used?

what is it with the Pubs man?

[hang a left]

2. I think that Karl may have cut himself a deal already.

What do you think about this theory?

[H2O Man]

3. Yes, indeed.

When Karl was on the stand for 4 hours and 15 minutes in his 4th time in front of the grand jury, he was talking about a lot more than Matthew Cooper. A few days later, his attorney leaked that Karl had chatted with Scooter about their contacts with journalists regarding Plame. This, of course, is the mystery official who spoke to Scooter about Novak in the indictment.

That little piece is one of five "keys" that will lock Scooter in a prison cell. You are absolutely right. Karl squeeled on Scooter for sure; I think that in early November, the public will find that some mysterious White House official pointed a finger at Cheney, too.

[coeur_de_lion]

4. they will have another grand jury soon

Investigation to continue with new grand jury - Fitzgerald spokesman


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

"...Fitzgerald's spokesman, Randall Samborn, said the investigation will continue but with a new grand jury. The term of the current grand jury cannot be extended beyond today...."

So presumably Fitz indicted Libby 'cause he won't tell the truth about Rove & Cheney. Now Rove escaped indictment "by a whisker" so the pressure is on him to testify truthfully or meet the same fate. Will he do it?

These guys have managed to obfuscate the story for two f-ing years. Fitz would have preferred to have the whole thing wrapped up but Libby kept lying. Now we'll see what happens to folks who lie to Fitz. In another couple years? Lord knows how long it will take.

I'm not disappointed since I listened to the whole press conference Fitz gave. Makes it pretty clear that they aren't finished. The reason they aren't finished is because no one will come completely clean. Libby was probably the easiest to indict. The GJ time was up and they had to do something.

Our wait is very far from over, but this is progress.

[H2O Man]

6. You mention a key point......

"Our wait is very far from over, but this is progress."

We need to do things during this period of "waiting." There are at very least four things that each of us can do -- this week -- to help move this foreward. Can you think of what these four things might be?

[coeur_de_lion]

9. at 6:50 in the morning?

Not really. Presumably you mean writing to our usual sources and LTTE.

I forget who, but someone said that the secrecy of the GJ makes it easy for the * admin to continue to hide their part in this. If I'm misquoting or misspeaking forgive me; but they said Watergate broke because of a Congressional investigation, not because of the GJ. So I'm thinking put the pressure on the Senate Intel Committee to start their own investigation.

[coeur_de_lion]

11. gonna go get ready for work --

but I will definitely be back, and in addition to telling me what the 4 things are, I would like for you to finish answering the question I asked in this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5216413&mesg_id=5217080

See paragraph 4 of my post. Keep up the good work Ducky, see you tonight.

[Coexist]

22. Contact our Representative for a Congressional inquiry of some sort??

I have no idea.

[NewJeffCT]

26. Write an LTTE to keep the pressure on the local papers?

You always advocate that, if I recall.

[H2O Man]

28. Yes.

It is more important for people to be sending letters to the smaller newspapers, so that the mainstream folks will connect this scandal with their day-to-day lives.

[mod mom]

48. I heard a story on NPR this morn about a cheap way to get messages out to

a broad base. It is things that we have been doing before, but more focused: Using animation and email to get significant points out thru our personal networks, as well as others.

In California (you gotta love the left coast) an animated farce on their terminator guvenator riding around in his HUGH hummer was produced cheaply and reached a lot of people thru email. It also was clever enough to get noticed by NPR (and probably other venues). The NPR story (sorry, I was dealing with kid breakfasts and making lunches at the time) said the message reached a lot of people and was very effective.

I am not "computerly inept, but there are many talented people here at DU, who could work with others in coming up with a specific message or information that needs to get out to the masses, then produce a catchy short animation, then we use our networks to blast this baby out to all corners of the internet.

What do you think?

[H2O Man]

51. The creative use of humor

is one of the most powerful "weapons" that we have.

[mod mom]

55. Of course we see this with the Daily Show but think how many of the

animated shorts got passed around and noticed. If future shorts were used to educate the masses on specific points, but of course in a humorous way, it could be an effective way of reaching more people than LTTEs. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to downplay LTTE, but who reads them? Peoople like us looking to see if our letters, our our activist friends letters make it (at this in regional papers). Also think how many letters each of us have written and how few ever get published. Also a lot of young people don't even read newspapers.

I am just suggesting that well directed points relayed in catchy animations will reach a broader audience. In travelling to DC on Sept 24, I was surprised how many people who attended were over 30. We need to reach a younger audience as well as older. The full potential of the internet is stil out there, and it is a cheap and effective way of reaching people. Who watches the news anymore?

[0007]

7. The way I see this playing out, is that in the next few weeks

junior will fire Karl Rove. Or Karl Rove will be forced to resign to try and save George W. Bush's presidency.

It will be just a matter of time afterwords that Dick Cheney resigns.

Maybe a year from now war criminal charges will be elevated to the proper people of this crime cabal.

[H2O Man]

8. I'm not sure

if Karl can do his job without a security clearance. On the Imus show, a guest just mentioned that Rove has admitted that he violated the rules or regulations involved in such a status, by talking to journalists about Plame. This is one of the most important issues that DUers and progressive democratics/"leftists" should be focusing public attention on now.

[0007]

15. If Karl can't do his job without a security clearance then

this may be setting the table for Karl's departure. I believe it is inevitable that Karl will be indicted, and the best footing, would be if he isn't serving the president.

[illflem]

5. No more Scooter

he's changed his nickname to Drooler to go along with his "I can't remember" defence

[Gin]

10. Another Watergate paralell....Liddy / Libby......keep them coming.

g

[Lasher]

19. AKA, the Ronald Reagan defense (EOM)

[Mobius]

12. Ok scooter is Libby

right?

[H2O Man]

14. Correct.

I am not aware of any news reports that do not refer to Lewis Libby as "Scooter." Even the in the indictments, filed in the federal court in Washington DC, he is identified as "defendant I. Lewis Libby, also known as 'Scooter Libby.'"

[Tatiana]

16. Time for Libby to sing.

And he will. Perhaps after he is convicted and forced to spend some time in the slammer, he'll see things from a different perspective, much like Judy Miller.

Looks like Karl may have fingered Libby. Looks like Libby got his info from Cheney and Cheney got his info from Tenet. Can't get Tenet for leaking to Cheney or Cheney for leaking to Scooter. They both had clearances. But Libby can finger Cheney and implicate Rove (and perhaps Ari) in a conspiracy to purposefully disclose the classified identity of a CIA employee to persons without security clearance.

[H2O Man]

17. I always like the Watergate model.

There were some fellows who were willing to face conviction and incarceration, because someone close to the president promised them that Nixon was going to grant pardons. The transcripts of the White House tapes make clear that Nixon had no intention of pardoning anyone, when he recognized it would harm him. If he could pardon people and not have it come back on him, he would have.

I think it is possible, even likely, that someone close to the president could have told Scooter to keep quiet, and face conviction and incarceration, because Bush would come through with a pardon. But it is possible and perhaps more likely that any good attorney would tell Libby what those Watergate fellows found out: the president isn't going to damage himself in order to help you. The president will not embrace those that his legal advisors are telling himself he needs to distance himself from.

The Watergate fellows reached a point where they realized they had been lied to. Scooter is coming to that point. As he weighs his options, a long incarceration probably will sound less and less attractive.

[mod mom]

49. I believe I read that Scooter has young children. If this is true I don't

believe he will be willing to do hard time for this administration. I also heard on NPR on sunday morning that Scooter was planning to fight hard these charges, which means he is not willing to take the proverbial bullet for the cons. this leads me to believe the WH is attempting to reconcil the division between rove/cheney camps by offering up pardons to keep mouths shut.

I think we should do everything within our powers to break apart any attempts at this reconcilation and push for bitter division between the two camps. We have a WH in turmoil and suspicious of each other. Why not prey on their internal fears and self preservation?

[DemonFighterLives]

18. I'm hoping Libby will sing

In the meantime, it seems that Rove is somewhat neutered. He is still being watched carefully and has to watch his step. This is a good sign. Dubby cannot function without his brain, so I expect more floundering. The bushies and cheney loyalists are picking sides. GFY cheney is more powerful than dubby, but poppy trumps all.

[DoYouEverWonder]

20. I'd be willing to bet

that both Scooter and Karl are being shunned. Just Friday the WH told everyone on staff to not talk to Scooter anymore. It must be lonely when the only people returning your calls are your lawyers and Judith Miller.

[DemonFighterLives]

21. To hear the talking sycophants

You would think that Rove is free and clear and leading us again as usual. I think he has been slowed, but if the neocons want to play around, I think Fitz has a surprise for them.
It really is a lot of lawyer talk and pukey judy :puke: and maybe Bolton.
Dubby is trying on a new face this morning with his supreme nominee.

[H2O Man]

23. Yep.

The effort to bring the administration to justice has to move beyond Fitzgerald and the grand jury. We all play a role, either positive or negative. The republican goal is obvious.They are hoping that those with shallow roots ("but I'm disappointed! I wanted 22 indictments!") will be in the majority in the democratic party, and will create an inertia in the progressive ranks.

[meganmonkey]

30. You are so right about that

Attention span problem arises again. No instant gratification, so people zone it out and move on to the next issue, in this case the SCOTUS nominee, and what could be a huge story no longer is. This is how they do it. Timing is everything.

It reminds me, sort of, of the CAFTA vote last summer, right around the time Roberts got nominated. There was about 95% agreement on DU that CAFTA was a bad idea, and there were attempts to get people writing letters to the editor, and to their congresspeeps, and then Roberts got picked for SCOTUS. CAFTA posts dropped like stones off the page and the DU Activist Corps went on this huge anti-Roberts thing, and everyone forgot that the CAFTA vote was happening. And then it was like..."What? CAFTA passed? When did that happen?"...Well, it happened while we were all signing petitions against someone who was weeks away from Senate hearings!!!

Wow, I didn't mean to rant on that, I guess that was pent up for awhile :blush:

But my point is, I don't want the TREASON to slip out of our consiousness! I see posts that say "Okay, time to move on..." about this already.

PATIENCE IS A VIRTUE!!!

[Pithy Cherub]

24. Scooter needs a criminal attorney, Fitz visits Bush's criminal attorney,

and Karl's attorney is begging for a lasting deal. Watergate is the premise that demonstrated that saving the president is what is most important. Scooter made a rash decision based on layalty and a criminal attorney will tell him not to expect to get any leniency if he refuses to deal with the array of charges against him. Meanwhile, Scooter's wife, also an attorney (formerly on Biden's staff) has to be weighing in. Next this means the Vice president, must be stocking up on Tums and defribilators because he can't count on Libby to hold the same viewpoint for 6 months. Once the prison time enormity of it all sinks in, Libby may just be on a tear.

The biggest fear is Congress sticking its republican corrupt paws in it and doing an investigation, like IranContra. Many of the witnesses received immunity, courtesy of Bob Dole, and that shot holes all through the prosecutor's case.

A time to wait and watch, because the pressure is off Fitz and fully unto the White House and its criminal inhabitants.

[flyarm]

37. yes the iran contra immunity deal may be one of the very reasons

fitz did not indict rove!!..get rove in court on the stand and take libbys case to conspiracy..then consequently indict rove...for conspiracy along with cheney!!

i will never forget how angry so many in this country were..including me..when ollie walked..that filthy murdering criminal walked and the reich wing embraced that murderer!!..i will never figure that one out...

i still get so pissed off when i think about it..ahhhhhhhhhhh..i really hate the fucking hypocrites on the reich!

fly

[Peace Patriot]

39. I'm with you, flyarm! The lack of consequences for Iran-Contra infuriated

...me, at the Congressional Democrats, as well as the felon Republican fascists. I think we lost the party then. I remember how smug they all seemed, the Dems on the committee. All in the Boys' Club. ("We're all going to be millionaires now," they seemed to be saying. And sure enough they were at the same time letting Reaganites re-write the tax code, to eliminate fairness to the poor and start larding the rich. It was all so sickening!)

And that collusion on Iran-Contra--in which the Reagan felons directly violated a specific Congressional prohibition against their war on Nicaragua--led us right to where we are today, with the president inventing wars of his own choosing, and stuffing billions and billions of dollars into the pockets of his war profiteering buddies, and prancing around with the "have's", and bragging about it--all checks and balances gone.

Well, maybe they'll give fascism a bad name, and finally the people will rise up and throw Diebold and ES&S election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor,' and the war profiteering corporate news monopolies and their doctored exit polls along with them. Won't that be the day!

[flyarm]

40. ahhh it wasn't just iran contra..it was the drug running and barry seal

murder..and how many other murders...shoving people out of helicopters...all the planes used for drugs coming into the country..and the busllshit of nancy and the say no to drugs.....while they were trading in the fucking drugs in this country ..and killing anyone who got in their way..and ollie was the ring leader!!

and the fucking murderer walked....

check out hassenfus...and look up barry seal!!

http://pdxnorml.org/CIA_DRUG.TXT.html

8/5/85: Bush's office is the first place notified when the C-123 carrying
Eugene Hassenfus is shot down. Buzz Sawyer, the pilot of the plane, has the
private White House phone number of George Bush in his pocket when his body is
recovered from the plane. Hassenfus testifies that he worked for the CIA under
Max Gomez (alias Felix Rodriguez) and Ramon Medina (alias Luis Posada Carriles)
with the knowledge and approval of George Bush. Telephone logs from the phone
company in El Salvador for the "safe houses" used by the plane crew show many
calls to North's White House office.

12/85: Felix Rodriguez attends the Christmas party at George Bush's White House
office, and is introduced to the staff as as old friend of Donald Gregg and
Bush.

1/86: Felix Rodriguez meets in Bush's office with Colonel Sam Watson, Gregg's
deputy in Salvador, and Colonel Steele to discuss counter-insurgency.

5/86: Felix Rodriguez meets with Bush, Gregg and North in Bush's office.

6/86: Felix Rodriguez is called to Washington to meet with North to explain
phone calls to Tony Avirgan and Martha Honey (U.S. journalists in Costa Rica),
which North has taped.



8/86: Felix Rodriguez meets with Bush and Donald Gregg to complain about the
quality of arms shipments from Richard Secord's arms supply operation. Later
that same month, Donald Gregg meets with Alan Friers, the Central American Task
Force chief, to support the purchase of military equipment from Felix Rodriguez
rather than Secord. Friers is told by Gregg, "Don't buy any of those damned
airplanes from Secord."

9/86: General Singlaub sends memo to North expressing concern about Felix
Rodriguez's daily contact with the Bush office, warning of "damage to President
Reagan and the Republican Party."

The above information was compiled from The Politics of Heroin in Southeast
Asia by McCoy (1972), Price of Power by Seymor Hersch (1983), Endless Enemies
by Jonathan Kwitny (1984), Veil by Bob Woodward (1987, Out of Control by Leslie
Cockburn (1987), Crimes of Patriots by Jon Kwitny (1987), as well as the
affidavit submitted to the Federal Court in Miami, Florida, in the RICO
(Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organizations Act) suit filed by Tony Avirgan
against those who bombed the press conference at La Ponca in 1984, and
the "Drugs, Law Enforcement and Foreign Policy" statement issued by the Senate
Foreign Relations Committee in December 1988.

[mod mom]

50. Scooter's wife formerly on Biden's staff? WTF? Please tell me this was

years ago before he knew her. How could one of the leading Dem Senators have the wife of one of the PNAC founders in his office? There is too much inbreeding in Washington.

[H2O Man]

52. "The banality of evil" ....

to borrow a famous phrase from the post-Nazi era. Recently, Robert Kennedy, Jr wrote a wonderful article about democracy. In it, he described having Don Rumsfeld for a neighbor. Don isn't a monstor in his neighborhood. He is in his job: Donald Rumsfeld may very well have been sincere in the vast majority of his efforts to "protect the homeland." But his actions are pure evil.

[robertpaulsen]

27. The trail of a lonely Scooter.

Thanks H2O Man, that was one aspect of Libby's indictment that I hadn't really thought about. With Libby being the only one indicted so far, the pressure has got to be enormous. I'm sure he will not hire a "criminal lawyer", he will try to put a dream team of lawyers to try and reverse the pressure on Fitz to go easy on him. It won't work.

Listening to Fitz speak, I was really impressed with how thorough he was detailing the case against Scooter. But I was also taken by how cautious he is. No way would someone like him lay out conspiracy charges until he was convinced he had the entire web exposed. His case against Scooter is airtight. Rove's is on the verge of being airtight, but I can't see Fitz using Scooter to get more dirt on Rove, that would be bargaining down instead of up. He has to give up the goods on Cheney at a minimum, or detail the entire WHIG hitjob for greater immunity.

It's good to see the investigation still open. We will be seeing more indictments, even though the GJ term has expired.

[DoYouEverWonder]

35. I think Scooter will turn

on Bush and Rove before he would ever turn on Cheney. Likewise, Rove has no problem turning on anyone except Bush, as long as he saves his own ass. Maybe that's what Scooter meant when he said they would turn together? Scooter and Cheney vs Bush and Rove. Could get interesting?

[longship]

44. I was wondering about conspiracy charges, too.

It's the conspiracy charges that are the big net. Maybe when he's ready to spring that, he'll have the lot of 'em.

Could that be why Rove isn't in court this week to plea? If Fitz's case against KKKarl is conspiracy, or mostly so, he may not want to tip his hand. So he holds off on conspiracy and squeezes to see which rats scramble out of the trap.

I've got this feeling that Fitz is a helluva poker player.

[robertpaulsen]

59. I got that same feeling watching the press conference.

Remember back in the 20th century when WH press secretaries like Lockhart knew how to handle a press conference like a pro? That's how I felt watching Fitz in action. Definitely kept the cards close to the vest.

The key thing he said was that the investigation is not over. I think Rove will definitely go down soon, it's just a question of how big the charges will be.

[La_Fourmi_Rouge]

29. Question for Mr. Man...

I have been lurking here furiously since the first of the Plame threads, including late nights last week... and this is the first time I have heard that Libby was trying to work out a plea of some sort. I had heard that Rove's lawyer was negotiating, but not Scooter. The way I read it, this really opens a huge fissure between the main players (yes, just the way you called it way back when...)

Of course, in Judge Tatel's opinion in the Court of Appeals, he basically takes it for granted that there was a "plot against Wilson." Looks to me like Fitz already has the goods on both henchmen, or he would have been more "flexible" in plea negotiations.

Do you think KKKarl came clean at his last GJ appearance? Do you think he'll need to "clarify" a few more points?

Looks like this whole charade is a standing stone just ready to topple...

[H2O Man]

32. My answers are:

{1} "Do you think KKKarl came clean at his last GJ appearance?"
I think that he gave more detailed information about his coordinating efforts with Scooter Libby in his last appearance. This includes his admitting that they talked about their contacts with various journalists. The indictment tells about part of one conversation, about Novak. It is safe to assume in his 4 hours 15 minutes on the stand, Rove gave more details.

{2} "Do you think he'll 'clarify' a few more points?"
It seems possible that Mr. Fitzgerald has some pretty interesting evidence about VP Cheney's role in this. Of particular interest might be the private talks that Cheney and Libby had. Thus, I think that the thing Fitzgerald is focused on is three specific talks these two fellows had. I do not think Karl has the details that are missing.

[flyarm]

41. h20 man..i don't think libby will sing..because he knows damn well

he will end up with cement boots inn the bottom of the potomac..these illuminati do not let anyone live long enough to sing!

he will either commit suicide or weird car wreck..or a long bath with razors!!

and libby knows it..more than anyone libby knows it..he sold his soul already...he is owned!!

or dead..

fly

[H2O Man]

47. I respectfully disagree.

But I think that you have plenty of reasons to believe what you do. And I will not be surprised in the least if what you are saying proves accurate.

Still, people accustomed to comfort find the concept of an extend incarceration difficult to deal with. So much so that dealing with the prosecutor becomes easier ....

[jazzjunkysue]

36. Welcome to Du, La Fourmi!

This is where you go when the TV BS finally gets to you and the newspapers only tell half the story. You sound like you're catching on awfully fast. Nice to know we've got smart new people to contribute to the discussion.

Since the first selection of B*** in '00, this has been a cery reliable source of information. Welcome!

[Peace Patriot]

38. H2O Man, I missed this news that Libby was dealing. Could you say...

...where it's from? Thanks! (I didn't figure he would; and I thought Rove had something on Cheney, or close enough to Cheney, and a new enough twist, to give Fitzgerald "pause" and hold off Rove's indictment.) (My guess: Rove playing victim, giving up someone who, on orders, misled him about the legality of what he was doing; and I guessed Myers.)(--wild guess.)

[H2O Man]

46. Sure.

It was reported in yesterday's New York Post (" 'Scooter' balked at insistence he do time") on page 8. It will also be in either Time or Newsweek this week, in greater detail. I don't have my copies yet, and am not able to say which one it's in. I did tell some other DUers this past weekend that it had been "leaked" to the media, and would be in the news by Sunday or Monday.

[opihimoimoi]

43. Family Values Scooter was a Porn Writer...kinda sicko fella,,,has

a latent desire to go to prison for the real shit..the ole Hersey Highway I guess.

Pubs and their Family Values crap....

See Hubert Flottzs post above for link....way up....#31

[Wilms]

45. n/t

[realFedUp]

53. The opinions at www.firedoglake.com are interesting....nt

[TacticalPeek]

56. Link correction.

You are right about the "interesting" part.

:)

http://firedoglake.blogspot.com

[realFedUp]

58. thanks. nt

[Just Me]

57. .

A great many "hard knocks" are way overdue for this cabal. Just MO.

[Stephanie]

61. Loyalty is a one-way street for the Bushes.

Scooter just found out the hard way. Hah. Hah. Hah.

[H2O Man]

62. Yes, he is finding out now.

Watch the White House closely, because they are going to have to separate George from the scandal. When lap dogs like Dick Morris write op-eds blaming VP Cheney, you can expect more to follow. The Spiro Cheney experience is warming up.

[ignatzmouse]

63. Instant Karma and Literary Irony

In some strange karmic irony, Scooter may end up as a little girl in a cage with a horny bear for ten to thirty years.

[formernaderite]

64. So DU only kept the Fitz folder for a few days...

and the repubs have managed to change the subject in the press...yet when I felt cynical about this process and outcome, people screamed that we were trolls.

Here's my prediction: Scooter gets off scot free! Rove...will not be charged. Without the initial charges of leaking her name...the entire mess is not significant enough for the public to care. If we waste anymore time on this we will miss 2006. Hello?....Bush is not running for reelection.

[H2O Man]

65. Not long ago,

many democrats -- including here on DU -- were wringing their hands, saying that nothing would come of the grand jury investigation. Of course, they were wrong. Likewise, Scooter has already experienced things that show he will not "get off scot free."

I've never been a "naderite," but I know that at his best, Ralph recognized the power of ideas. I have an idea: "yes" is more powerful than "no."