(Sealed indict.?) Friday, 5 minutes before the indictment is handed out...

[jsamuel]

CNN mentions that a motion went together with the indictment. Considering that Fitz isn't empaneling a new grand jury, doesn't that lead us to think that a sealed indictment was the motion. Sure it could have been some other extraneous thing, but the lawyers on CNN said that it was EXTREMELY rare to have a motion filed with an indictment.

[qanda]

1. I remember this being the topic of much confusion

Before the indictment was passed out. The pundits couldn't figure out why there were motions and the possibility of a sealed indictment was amongst one of the conclusions a pundit came up with.

[flyarm]

33. I POSTED NUMEROUS TIMES ASKING IF ANYONE ELSE HEARD THIS FRIDAY

I POSTED AND POSTED IT AND only one person replied that they heard it..it was while the gj forman handed the indictment envelope to the bailif to hand to the magistrate...on cnn their person in the court told about it..it is not on any transcripts i have looked ..but joe degenova was online with wolf and he said he had never seen it before..and he joked that he had run that court..and he said he had never seen it before when an indictment was turned over to the judge...

so it surely is something different...they called it something and i can not remember the name of what they called it..some kind of motion...but they said it was not a sealed indictment..i was so mad i didn't write it down...

i have searched legal words and i can not find it..or remember what exactly they called it..

fly

[qanda]

43. We were watching the exact same thing

I'm sorry I didn't see your post, but I've been wondering about this since I saw it. I'm not sure about the exact wording, but it was very strange.
On Edit, here's the transcript from a DailyKos thread:

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I was just in the courtroom, Wolf, and what happened is a magistrate Judge Deborah Robertson (ph) entered at 12:37, and grand jury members entered, 18 of them, and then the foreperson. The judge asked if they had materials to present to the court. They said yes. The foreperson took that up to the clerk, and then she said, are there are motions? They said, yes. And then she said, the materials will be tendered to the deputy clerk for filing. So there was no reading of what these motions. There was no reading of anyone's name. So now everyone is lined up outside the deputy clerk's office waiting to get that materials.

BLITZER: So we'll get the documents, but what -- talk to us in English, Kathleen, what this might mean.

KOCH: That's what I don't know, Wolf. We're waiting really to find out when this material comes in, whether it will have names. We assume, again, that because there was -- there were materials to be presented to the court, there were motions, that those motions consist of something relatively important.

Hang on, Wolf. I'll put my microphone on.

But we're not really sure at this point what they will include. Again, the special counsel, Patrick Fitzgerald, was there, came into the courtroom, sat at the table, as did the members of the grand jury. They sat, some again, 18 of them.

But, Wolf, we're really not sure what that means, and I've just lost my earpiece. Why don't we go to Bob Franken.

BLITZER: Hold on, bob. We'll get back to you. We'll let both of you hook up.

Joe Digenova was listening to this, Jeff Toobin was listening to this, both excellent lawyers, both former prosecutors.

Joe, first you, what did you understand from that?

DIGENOVA: Well, sometimes -- well, obviously, the indictment is handed up. It's always handed up in a package, and it could be that the motions have something to do with the manner in which the case is going to be assigned. There may have been a discussion with Judge Hogan about that the other day during that 45-minute meeting, if it had something to do with keeping certain things under seal. It's hard to tell at this point.

BLITZER: Jeff Toobin, what about you it?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: That's the word that Kathleen used that jumped out at me, motions, because this is actually -- I mean, it's funny to see all this sort of attention what in on an ordinary day in a U.S. attorney's office is totally routine and boring process, which is walking the indictment from the grand jury room over to the magistrate, who's on duty, and literally handing it up. I mean, that's what they call handing it up. You hand it to the judge who is sitting on the bench. They call it handing up, and that's essentially the end of it, and the document become public.

I don't know anything about motions that would be presented there. And maybe Joe could help us, because every office is a little different, and he used to be the boss there. But I'm a little puzzled by the reference to motions.

DIGENOVA: Well, when I was U.S. attorney in that very courthouse, I never presented a single indictment that had a motion attached at the time and handed up to the magistrate. So it could have something to do with classified information, it could have something to do with specially assigning the cases, not putting it on the wheel, where the judges get cases by random, or it could have something to do with keeping it sealed, although that seems unlikely since Patrick Fitzgerald is holding a news conference at 2:00 p.m.

TOOBIN: That certainly doesn't seem -- I mean, that occurred to me. But Patrick Fitzgerald just scheduled a news conference. So I don't see how he could have at the same time claim that an indictment needs to be sealed.

[HereSince1628]

2. For us only time will tell, but I'll hope

that there is more to come in this saga.

[Ian David]

4. Let's watch the next six headlines of RAW Story for six new stories on it

[LSparkle]

6. Maybe there was a sealed indictment of KKKarl ...

while he got some extra time to think about a plea bargain (??).

[catabryna]

11. This is what I've been thinking...

That Rove is going to cop a plea or testify with some sort of immunity against the others.

[Norquist Nemesis]

12. Yes! Rove's lawyer made a statement he's "cooperating" n/t

[Marnieworld]

3. Fitz is getting a new grand jury

He said that it is routine and not to read anything into it but a new grand jury is being empaneled.

[jsamuel]

5. I never heard him say that. He said that he doesn't need to, because he

can use any sitting GJ.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

18. I heard that too

[flyarm]

34. thats what i heard him say as well..he can use any sitting gj if he

needs one..

fly

[Jersey Devil]

38. That is correct. No motion would be needed to do that and

Fitz said exactly that - he can use any sitting GJ

[blogslut]

7. r u sure?

I thought he said he "could" empanel a new GJ. Not that already had done so.

[LSparkle]

8. When did he say that? I haven't heard anything about it

and I've been glued to my TV all weekend.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

16. It was an answer to one of the questions that was asked at the press

conference.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/28/politics/28text-fitz.html?pagewanted=all

QUESTION: You noted earlier that the grand jury's term expired but you said something about holding it open. Or will you be working with a new grand jury?


FITZGERALD: The grand jury, by its terms, can serve -- was an 18-month grand jury. By its statute, to my understanding, can only be extended six months.


FITZGERALD: That six months expired.


It's routine in long investigations that you would have available a new grand jury if you needed to go back to them. And that's nothing unusual. I don't want to raise any expectations by that; that's an ordinary practice.

[jsamuel]

17. He just says that the GJ's term expired, he doesn't say anything about

a new one...

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

32. He says that he can convene a new one if needed. Right here

It's routine in long investigations that you would have available a new grand jury if you needed to go back to them. And that's nothing unusual. I don't want to raise any expectations by that; that's an ordinary practice.

[Marnieworld]

This was what I was going to quote

He has not ended the investigation. He has a new grand jury "available". Libby's indictment mentions "Official A" and according to the Washington Post:

"Another warning sign for Rove was in the phrasing of Friday's indictment of Libby. Fitzgerald referred to Rove in those charging papers as a senior White House official and dubbed him "Official A." In prosecutorial parlance, this kind of awkward pseudonym is often used for individuals who have not been indicted in a case but still face a significant chance of being charged. No other official in the investigation carries such an identifier."

This isn't over yet. Not only is the fat lady not singing she isn't even warming up yet. :)

[jsamuel]

21. Your reading into it too far.

Fitz can use ANY GJ at any time as long as it's term hasn't expired. He doesn't need to empanel his own new one for the above quote to make sense. If he did empanel a new GJ, we would have heard about it all over the news, that would not have been kept secret.

And he didn't say that a new GJ IS available. He said a new one COULD be available. He COULD get a new one WHEN/IF he chooses.

[hang a left]

27. There was a statement issued Friday by a contact in Fitz's office

That they will be using a new grand jury that has just been empaneled. It was in LBN.

[jsamuel]

29. ./

that would be good to know :)

[hang a left]

30. Here ya go

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1884715

[jsamuel]

37. "but with a new grand jury"-I don't think it means that a new one has been

empanelled by Fitz

It just means a different GJ will be used. I could be wrong, but I think it would have been bigger news to hear he has empanelled a new one just for this case.

[hang a left]

41. I went back and clicked on the link and the story is gone.

I will tell you what it said Friday is that they were going to use a new grand jury that had just recently been empaneled. I don't know why the story is gone now. It is curious.

[unrepuke]

13. I thought I heard him say that, also, last Friday.

[Pepper32]

15. Umm... When did he say this?

FITZGERALD: Let me answer the two questions you asked in one.

OK, is the investigation finished? It's not over, but I'll tell you this: Very rarely do you bring a charge in a case that's going to be tried and would you ever end a grand jury investigation.

I can tell you, the substantial bulk of the work in this investigation is concluded.

This grand jury's term has expired by statute; it could not be extended. But it's in ordinary course to keep a grand jury open to consider other matters, and that's what we will be doing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/28/politics/28text-fitz.html?pagewanted=all

On edit: I now see where this was said. I was concerned about the "routine" part. Oh well, I guess time will tell if there will be more indictments or not.

However, I still feel this is Fitz MO based on the Ryan case.


From the AP August 27, 2003, Wednesday, BC cycle

When asked, Fitzgerald would not comment on whether "Official A" was Ryan.

From the Chicago Daily Herald April 3, 2002, Wednesday All

But despite branding two of Ryan's former top aides and his campaign committee as corrupt, Fitzgerald would not say if the investigation will eventually reach Ryan. The vast majority of the corruption uncovered so far happened under his watch when he was secretary of state from 1990 until 1998. The governor has not been accused by prosecutors of any wrongdoing in the past, and Tuesday's indictments did not include him.

"I cannot answer that question," Fitzgerald said when asked about any Ryan involvement. "We cannot discuss people not charged in the indictment."

More: http://www.archpundit.com/archives/013064.html
http://www.archpundit.com/archives/013065.html

Ryan was later indicted http://www.suntimes.com/output/ryan/ryan06.html

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

9. The GJ was asked if they had any motions, and said yes.

Toobin said it was very unusual. So we never found out what that was about.

[crispini]

10. Oooooooooo! Really?

That interests me greatly. Hmmmm.....

[mod mom]

24. What does "GJ had motions" mean?

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

31. Grand Jury had motions?

[hang a left]

28. Maybe it was a motion to seal an indictment.

[No Exit]

14. I also wonder if there was a sealed indictment...

Lots of people seem to think that Fitzgerald wants full cooperation from Rove. Here's one thing I know: if a federal prosecutor wants someone's full cooperation, his very favorite way to obtain that cooperation is to have that person charged with a crime (if the evidence is there), and to hold it over the person's head.

[Halliburton]

19. when did CNN report this

Friday or today?

[jsamuel]

20. Friday the 28th of October 2005

[flyarm]

36. when the grand jury forman was in the court cnn had a reporter in the

courtroom..the forman handed the envelope to the bailif and something was attached to it..some kind of motion..wolf asked joe degenova what it would be..joe degenova said he never hard of that ..and he ran that court at sometime...but something was attached to the envelope with the indictment..some kind of motion...

i have been asking if anyone else heard it since then here on du..only one other person replied to my quierie..and they were unsure of what it was called by cnn as well...

it was when the envelop was being turned over to the magistrate..
fly

[Halliburton]

22. I found the transcript!

<snip>
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I was just in the courtroom, Wolf, and what happened is a magistrate Judge Deborah Robertson (ph) entered at 12:37, and grand jury members entered, 18 of them, and then the foreperson. The judge asked if they had materials to present to the court. They said yes. The foreperson took that up to the clerk, and then she said, are there are motions? They said, yes. And then she said, the materials will be tendered to the deputy clerk for filing. So there was no reading of what these motions. There was no reading of anyone's name. So now everyone is lined up outside the deputy clerk's office waiting to get that materials.

BLITZER: So we'll get the documents, but what -- talk to us in English, Kathleen, what this might mean.

KOCH: That's what I don't know, Wolf. We're waiting really to find out when this material comes in, whether it will have names. We assume, again, that because there was -- there were materials to be presented to the court, there were motions, that those motions consist of something relatively important.

Hang on, Wolf. I'll put my microphone on.

But we're not really sure at this point what they will include. Again, the special counsel, Patrick Fitzgerald, was there, came into the courtroom, sat at the table, as did the members of the grand jury. They sat, some again, 18 of them.

But, Wolf, we're really not sure what that means, and I've just lost my earpiece. Why don't we go to Bob Franken.

BLITZER: Hold on, bob. We'll get back to you. We'll let both of you hook up.

Joe Digenova was listening to this, Jeff Toobin was listening to this, both excellent lawyers, both former prosecutors.

Joe, first you, what did you understand from that?

DIGENOVA: Well, sometimes -- well, obviously, the indictment is handed up. It's always handed up in a package, and it could be that the motions have something to do with the manner in which the case is going to be assigned. There may have been a discussion with Judge Hogan about that the other day during that 45-minute meeting, if it had something to do with keeping certain things under seal. It's hard to tell at this point.

BLITZER: Jeff Toobin, what about you it?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: That's the word that Kathleen used that jumped out at me, motions, because this is actually -- I mean, it's funny to see all this sort of attention what in on an ordinary day in a U.S. attorney's office is totally routine and boring process, which is walking the indictment from the grand jury room over to the magistrate, who's on duty, and literally handing it up. I mean, that's what they call handing it up. You hand it to the judge who is sitting on the bench. They call it handing up, and that's essentially the end of it, and the document become public.

I don't know anything about motions that would be presented there. And maybe Joe could help us, because every office is a little different, and he used to be the boss there. But I'm a little puzzled by the reference to motions.

DIGENOVA: Well, when I was U.S. attorney in that very courthouse, I never presented a single indictment that had a motion attached at the time and handed up to the magistrate. So it could have something to do with classified information, it could have something to do with specially assigning the cases, not putting it on the wheel, where the judges get cases by random, or it could have something to do with keeping it sealed, although that seems unlikely since Patrick Fitzgerald is holding a news conference at 2:00 p.m.

TOOBIN: That certainly doesn't seem -- I mean, that occurred to me. But Patrick Fitzgerald just scheduled a news conference. So I don't see how he could have at the same time claim that an indictment needs to be sealed.
<snip>

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0510/28/bn.02.html

[yodermon]

23. Are "indictments" technically "Motions"?

?

Maybe this has something to do with Fitz showing up outside bush's personal lawyer's office on Friday before the idictments?
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/29/politics/29leak.html?pagewanted=all

Mr. Fitzgerald was spotted Friday morning outside the office of James Sharp, Mr. Bush's personal lawyer. Mr. Bush was interviewed about the case by Mr. Fitzgerald last year. It is not known what discussions, if any, were taking place between the prosecutor and Mr. Sharp. Mr. Sharp did not return a phone call, and Mr. Fitzgerald's spokesman, Randall Samborn, declined to comment.

Perhaps indiciting a sitting president for conspiracy might involve a "motion" over and above a regular "indictment"?

:tinfoilhat:

[jsamuel]

25. If anyone was indicted, it would be a sealed indictment and would require

a motion. There is no evidence to support that the motion would mean Bush over anyone else.

[flyarm]

40. bless you..i have been trying to get this transcript since friday !!

i heard this and i was dying to find this transcript!!

thanks!!

fly

[jsamuel]

26. Posted at DKOS

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/10/31/15749/733

[merh]

35. A motion is a formal request of the parties to the court.

(4) Sealed Indictment. The magistrate judge to whom an indictment is returned may direct that the indictment be kept secret until the defendant is in custody or has been released pending trial. The clerk must then seal the indictment, and no person may disclose the indictment's existence except as necessary to issue or execute a warrant or summons.

[xultar]

39. C'mon kids I know you're excited but no. He's going to use a sitting GJ

not get a new one.

[Halliburton]

44. but he could've filed a sealed indictment with the previous grand jury

it's certainly possible.

[xultar]

45. True but let's make pretend it didn't happen and be surprised when

it is revealed.

[texpatriot2004]

42. Hmm. A motion for what, I wonder? nt