Bird Flu, RIGHT WING talking points and a golden opportunity

[nadinbrzezinski]

Ok folks was listening to Rhandi... and then came home and turned on fox for ten minutes... and I have some good news for you.

First there are some rules that folks need to realize... the first warnings came in 1995... the WHO has been working intensely on this since 1998... and yesterday I downloaded and read the strategic plan from the WHO. The first actual patient was found in 1997 in Hong Kong...

SO there are several points that need to be made... and it is a real threat.

1.- Pre infectious, we are supposed to monitor areas where this is endemic and where the mutations are happening (check)

2.- Patient zero and early clusters, WHO recommends that nations have a delivery system and they cover 25% of their populations with Tami Flu or other generic anti virals... we don't have this capability... here is where you all come in... the science is solid on this... you realize what we need? Can you all say National Health Care? This is a golden opportunity to make a case for national health care in the United States, for if we are missing that capability, patients may refuse to go see their doctor within the first 48 hours. Any body has heard the right speak of this? NO, embrace the science and get going with letters to the editor

3.- Pandemic: National health care systems are expected to be under severe pressure and recommendations from the who are for health care system to try the old stand byes including influenza wards... again without a national health care it will be very hard for local officials to enforce some things that will be critical, such as the ever so popular indigent care. This is a non issue under national health care. Now will the system be under extreme duress? Worst war games tell me yes... but no indigent care... it will only exacerbate it

So here is your golden opportunity to shoot down the lets scare people (which is Fox's talking point) scenario. Yes, the right is going to tell you... WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!

Well duffus, the strategic plan exists, lets talk national health care as one of our tools to deal with the emergency.

;-)

Now how bout them letters to the editor and your Congress critters? Fire up the idea of national health care and remember, them socialist french have 20% of their population covered by Tami flu, and the Brits have 25% of the population (this is WHO's standards), and we have less than 1%... see how this works?

Oh and by the way kudos to Sam for doing a rational job of this.

[bonito]

1. Yea but we are outsourcing

and I heard today Importing educated people for positions here, so maybe we really don't need 25% after all, what ever, I have plenty of cs anyway.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. And this has what to do with the price of china?

granted the right wing wants to get rid of undesirables, but lets not miss this oportunity....

[bonito]

5. No ,I agree with you completely

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. problem with the medium

sorry... my apologies

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Oh and here is my letter to local fish wrap

To the Editor,

We have been told what the plan from the Feds is to deal with Bird Flu. Problem is, we are way behind every developed country in the world. If it should strike this year, what the Feds have planned is too little, too late, in classic form. Moreover the Marines will not help, and it is only an excuse for martial law and suspending Posse Comitatus, which has served the nation well since the 1870s.

That said, if we have longer to prepare, part of our strategic plan should be the implementation of a single player National Health Plan that must cover 100% of the population, no iffs, or buts about it. After all, how do we expect those without health insurance (45 million last count) to go see the doctor to receive Tami Flu within the first 48 hours as recommended by health authorities? Of course the benefits to the nation will go beyond dealing with Bird Flu. So it is time to finally join the rest of the developed world with a national health insurance plan

Sincerely,

[kikiek]

4. There isn't even a vaccine for the bird flu. Tamiflu is the one they

are giving out this year. It won't work on the bird flu. This is the govts way of making sure the company that made Tamiflu makes enough money for producing it. They don't give a rats ass otherwise about us dropping dead from flu. It is all a show. The lights went off today when I reread a story from last year about the vaccine shortage. They said companies might be willing to make the vaccine if everyone got a shot every year. That way they would make money and not lose it on extra vaccine they have to throw away. Hello..scare em all about a pandemic and just like Iraq make the facts fuzzy enough so people don't know what is going on.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Not exactly

the problem with bird flu is we need an active strain to make the actual vaccine.. how it works, catch 22

Do you understand how Tami Flu or resenex work?

What they do is that they help reduce the severity of the episode, as well as how infectious the patient is, by interfering in the reproduction of the flu at the RNA level... they interrupt the transferase.

Are they very effective? Somewhat, and by the way the World Health Organization is leaning hard on Roche to give up on all patents and make this a generic drug... you realize what that will do to the stock of Gillead? Or... Roche for that matter?

Now the point of this is... the right claims we have no ideas... ok... fine WE ARE GONNA DIE, that is the reaction they want... my reaction is... ok fine... it is a threat.. I undesstand the science... the best way to deal with it when it comes is national health care. Those who don't have insurance right now will not go to the doctor to get their dose of tamiflu on first symptoms, but if we had national health care chances are they will... and all the ancillary benefits are incredible. So use the chance to either tune them out and go, damn conspiracy theory, damn bush, WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE! Or do what they are not expecting and open the conversation on national helth... it is a chance only if we take it.



On edit I wish I could ask President bunny pants the technical question, Mr President how exactly does Tami Flu works and how effective has it been found to be in labs?

Wanna bet he has no clue?

Oh and on further edit, Tami Flu is NOT a vaccine... it is a general antiviral taken within the first 48 hours of onset of symtoms. WHO has found that a five day course is not good enough and they are looking at a ten day course.. it is NOT a vaccine nor does it confer immunity

The vaccine for the flu this year is your garden variety yearly flu vaccine... nothing whatsoever with this nor will it give you immunity against it.

[kikiek]

8. I know the bird flu is the H5N1 protein. I am familair with the RNA use

by the virus. And that we don't know what the protein for the people to people transmission will be if it occurs. I have read that the vaccine isn't going to help in a pandemic. I know they have been predicting for years that we are due for one. I know they occur regularly like the 1918 H1N1 flu that was a bird flu also. The 1918 flu is still a mystery. They don't know why it affected the age groups it did. Some died in hours others were just slightly ill. Possibly carriers that were asymptomatic. It was specific for the lung tissue which I don't know if they all are. In my opinion it is as natural as an earthquake, and just as hard to predict or prevent. I still remember the swine flu scare also, and the people who developed GB. The vaccine caused many problems. I do trust the scientists, but not the government in charge. It is people to people transmission we don't know yet.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Yes it is like a quake

We see them every generation or so like clockwork, problem is the 1960s saw the last one... we are overdue

[kikiek]

9. We have the vaccine at work to give out it says Tamiflu on the bottle.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. They are not bottle form, they are tablets

read it, it should say TAMIFLU (oseltamivir phosphate), and if it the phosphate it is NOT a vaccine... it is an antiviral. It is NOT the same thing

[kikiek]

12. The bottle we are drawing vaccinations from is Tamiflu...

Introduced in 1999, Tamiflu is one of the only medicines proven in clinical trials to reduce the duration and severity of avian flu if taken within 48 hours of infection. It can also be used as a vaccine. http://www.nationalacademies.org/headlines/20051012b.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Fascinating so they are using this

to vaccinate when someobdy is NOT sick....

Sorry I will ask my doc for the actual vaccine for my garden variety flu...

[kikiek]

15. I will read it again next week when I go back to work but I looked at

it a couple times because I was surprised. I have a friend who has lupus and has become very ill from the shot. They usually don't have her get it, but because of the hype this year gave it. It was a mistake.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. I know I need to go to the doc

and I am in one of them high risk groups... so I will ask the doc before they even go shot...

Also you'd think that with the low quantity we have available in case of bird flu, we'd stock this up...

[kikiek]

22. Looks like they aren't going to share the patent without a fight. I will

wait. I am sorry to hear you're in high risk group. I hope any shot you get doesn't make you ill. I will never forget the swine flu fiasco. I did find a local article that mights me think maybe I'm not crazy and reading labels wrong. Locally they're using it. I wonder if it varies state to state. http://id_center.apic.org/apic/influenza/general/news/oct2405flubriefing.html Gerberding said that right now she does not expect a shortage of oseltamivir for use against seasonal flu. "The manufacturer still has several million doses in the pipeline," she said. "The doses that haven't been distributed yet exceed the number prescribed last year by a significant amount. At this point there's no evidence of a shortage that's going to result in any clinical impact on patients. We'll monitor that."

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. the prroblem is

oseltamivir is not a vaccine, does not create antigens... soemthing is fishy and will ASK the doctor... in no uncertain terms

On edit I will expect Roche to fight it.. but the precedent with the AIDS drugs was already established

[kikiek]

28. I didn't have any homebound pts to give a shot to. We had a very

short supply (50 shots) to distribute between all home care and hospice patients. So only the ones who couldn't get out to get it received one. I saw the Tamiflu in the refrig on Wed and there were 3 vials of it. I am wondering if that is for something else. Maybe the vaccine was different, and that is there for an outbreak. I didn't get to health services to get a shot yet either.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Well at least we are having a useful conversation with this

I used to be a Rescue Medic with the Red Cross in Tijuana, have been following this story on and off since we got the first communique of something amiss in SE Asia in '95... we think influenza, yes it was that specific...

I went when I was handed that from DPH... WTF do you people want me to do with this?

Keep an eye on any strange flu...

Oh brilliant, crykes, so that winter we were all going ... what are we looking for apart fo the usual?

[kikiek]

32. Hah I would not want to be doing that. What an interesting job. Talk

about life experiences.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. Oh it was fun

but we also got to do some things that medics here don't do, like the ever so popular national vaccination campaign... go off to the colonias to get the kids ahem, vaccinated... every six months or so.. at times it did involve some ahem, chasing.

Some of the things we saw were very sad though

And yes I got to see first hand the failure of the war on drugs... but I do remember that communique... the Department of Pulbic Health thought it was important for all ambulance crews to ahem, be aware of this...

It was the least specific ever communique I have ever seen... over the years they have become far more specific

[kikiek]

34. What vaccinations were they given? Do you know?

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. The usual

one that is not done here, TB vaccine, why you have many mexicans come up positive even if they were never expoosed. And by the way the jury is still out on whether it is useful or not... American companies say it does not work.. Mexican Health Officials swear by it, as having reduced the incidence of it...

All childhood vaccines


Oh and I forgot nobody was charged for it, and that is why the compliance rate is far higher than in the US...

[kikiek]

36. That helped many children no doubt even if they never knew it. I don't

recall having the mercury problems when I was a kid they do now. We don't have kids so didn't have to go through that. I don't know much about it I haven't read much on it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. I don't recall that problem either

and my kids have feathers... so we don't have that problem, except when the conure decides to chew on coins... chelating agents really are bad for the poor dear, but the metal poisoning was far worst.

It is not funny when you see a bird having convulsions...

[kikiek]

40. No that is terrible. Been through that with one of our dogs. Her 1st

one went on way too long. She ended up blind. She had breakthroughs despite the medication, but never like her 1st one.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. yeah it can be bad...

she is fine now, she is a little devil, and quite the teen.. I am expecting her to beg for the car keys, she is that rebellious right now

[kikiek]

44. What is her life expectancy?

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. sun conure 30+ years, and she is five years old

our cockatiel he is almost 18, his life expectancy is anywhere from 15-25

Our nanday, 40, he is 14

[kikiek]

46. Good you enjoy tham a long time. Well rough crowd here at night

I think I will retire. Thanks for your information...keep up the good fight. Your original idea is good. It didn't get lost in all of this!

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. Well I sent my letter to fish wrap and congress critter

plant seeds I call it, and good night

[kestrel91316]

26. Vaccines are NEVER used when the person is already sick. Vaccines

are for pre-exposure prevention of infection. I think this person is confused, and may be referring to the prophylactic use of Tamiflu to interrupt the infection, rather than later use to treat the disease.

I wish they still taught health classes in high school, so people understood the difference between prevention and treatment.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Now here is my question

if they are giving this already when people are exposed, I know it is a generic antiviral, so it should work with garden variety flu exposure, never fun... but after readying the WHO strategic plan it makes me go... we have anywhere from 1%-2% coverage, depending who you read... shouldn't they be stocking on this for the possible outbreak? I mean if that story I think you posted from jakarta is finally our worst nightmare, lets pray they managed to get to Patient zero and buy us time... and buy us time is what we will need...

[kikiek]

29. I am a nurse. I know the difference. Manners are missing too.

[kestrel91316]

23. This cannot possibly be true. Here's why.

Tamiflu CANNOT BE USED AS A VACCINE. IT IS NOT A VACCINE. It is a DRUG. Vaccines are an injection of a substance (antigen) which in time will stimulate immunity (antibodies) to the disease in question, as a means of preventing infection. Tamiflu is an antiviral drug, which inhibits the cytokine storm, the most dangerous part about the body's over-reaction to the virus, which is often lethal.

Tamiflu CAN be used prophylactically, to PREVENT infection, if used right after exposure. It can also be used once symptoms have developed. But it is not, cannot, and will not ever be a "vaccine".

[kikiek]

30. Should tell them that.

http://www.nationalacademies.org/headlines/20051012b.html Introduced in 1999, Tamiflu is one of the only medicines proven in clinical trials to reduce the duration and severity of avian flu if taken within 48 hours of infection. It can also be used as a vaccine.

[kestrel91316]

37. No doctor or medical professional wrote that statement, that

Tamiflu can be used as a "vaccine". That is FALSE, and demonstrates an utter lack of understanding of the definition of drugs and vaccines.

This was clearly written by a journalist or office person, not anyone who has ever studied immunology, virology, or epidemiology.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. go to the link

and be entertained, roche labs

[kestrel91316]

41. They really need a medical professional proofreading the stuff

their PR FLAKS write, lol.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. my mistake just that I read that on Roche too

that link takes you to the NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES... WOW

[Corgigal]

14. I tried to purchase TamiFlu 4 days ago.

I just wanted to have something on hand and store in the safe.

Today I got my e-mail and it mentioned that the wholesaler can't fill my order because the federal Govt took the full supply.

Now, I don't know if Tamiflu would be the fix to end all but I would feel a bit better having a script or two.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. armed forces are stoking all available stocks

I am sure I heard that today over the net feed

[Corgigal]

18. Must be

Would still feel better with a script or two in the house. Going to try another way. The e-mail they sent me is below:

Please note that we are currently out of stock of Tamiflu and Relenza, and the US Government has taken possession of all of the remaining Tamiflu and Relenza at all of the drug wholesalers throughout the country. In the event that we get more in, orders will be processed in the order in which they are received. We have no way of knowing when this will be however. Please accept our sincere apologies

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Wow, well there is a bright side to this

we may avoid our military spreading it all over the place like they did in 1918

This is not funny... the triage in case of an outbreak said taht front line emergency personnel were first on the list... I guess that this was the only way to ensure chimpy and crew got it... they were fifth down the list.

I am praying we go another year with no mutation... quite frankly and chances are we just may... this is like a quake... most you don't feel, some you feel with a couple folks getting killed, and finally the killer ones

[Corgigal]

20. I watched a show last week

History channel, I think. Anyway, it mentioned that one of the only ways to get health care workers to come to work is by offering these anti-virals daily. I thought of it as blackmail but I understand the thinking behind it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. I was one, and I can tell you many will be there at work

but others will desert their posts and can you blame them?

[Corgigal]

24. Might not be any safer wherever they go

I just wish we could get more anti-virals. Let pharms start making generics. Our govt should buy off the patent or pass some emergency measure for these medications.

Also thank you for being so brave if this bird flu turns out even at half the rate the media cries about daily. I was an emergency worker several years back and I understand how hard it is to stay.