Southern Baptists declare jihad on homosexuals, public schools

[Bluebear]

COLUMBIA, SC, Nov. 7 /Christian Wire Service/ -- When Dr. Voddie Baucham and Bruce N. Shortt first presented their resolution to the SBC's 2005 Annual Meeting urging Southern Baptists to investigate whether their school districts are collaborating with homosexual activists, Baucham and Shortt didn't foresee that the 2005 Annual Meeting would unanimously pass a resolution substantially similar to theirs or that it would inspire Baptist leaders in conventions covering at least 28 states to introduce similar resolutions. They also didn't expect that Dr. Albert Mohler, the SBC's leading theologian, would publicly state in response to the issues raised by the Baucham-Shortt resolution that it is now time for responsible Southern Baptists to develop an exit strategy from the public schools.

Homosexual activists claim that nearly 3,000 public middle and high schools have homosexual clubs, and public schools are rapidly adopting curricula and policies teaching that the homosexual lifestyle is morally acceptable. Consequently, the sponsors of the state resolutions see a pressing need for continuing the debate over homosexual activism in public schools that was begun by the Baucham-Shortt resolution.

Roger Moran, a prominent Southern Baptist leader from Missouri and member of the SBC executive committee, calls for bold Christian leadership in education:

"One of the great tragedies of American Christianity has been the near universal failure of its leaders to boldly proclaim the inherent dangers lurking within America's government owned and controlled schools. But now, in the context of Southern Baptist life, that is beginning to change. We are beginning to understand with increased clarity that the worldview into which our children are being educated in the public schools matters supremely. The secular worldview taught in our public schools has not only laid the foundation for a 'new morality,' but with the aid of liberal activist judges has cleared the way for pro-homosexuality activists in their massive effort to recruit America's young people to the homosexual lifestyle."

EDITED BY ADMIN: COPYRIGHT


http://www.earnedmedia.org/em1107.htm

[bettyellen]

1. are we sending this to the IRS now?

[ismnotwasm]

6. Yup

They need to be threatened with losing their tax exempt status. Totally.
Or--is that only for liberal churches preaching peace...

[GreenPartyVoter]

27. Good plan

[FreedomAngel82]

32. Don't you know silly

that only counts for churches who preach love and anti-war. :sarcasm:

[Silverhair]

78. A church can speak on issues.

It can not endorse a candidate or a political party and still keep the tax exemption. But a chruch can preach their religious beliefs and talk about issues without losing the tax status.

[maximovich]

121. Preaching an Attack on a "people" is Quit Different

They are inciting hatred and bigotry of a kind of populace....

I do believe in Free Speech, but this should not go unchallenged.

[Silverhair]

131. So the gov't gets to dictate religious beliefs?

Those churches belief that to practice homosexuality is a sin.

Many of them believe that drunkeness is a sin. Do you mean that they can't preach on drunkeness. Gambling for those that believe it is a sin?

[rodeodance]

2. recall that 2 plus billion $ was diverted to private schools by Bush also.

I saw complaining about this--but guess Bush was just allowed to do it!!

[tallahasseedem]

3. Southern Baptists are a scary breed.

Trust me, I am surrounded by them.

[Bluebear]

4. I am so sick of tippytoeing around these fascist phonies.

Any response and you are "attacking religion". Grrrr.

[FreedomAngel82]

34. They're attacking people too

I'm tired of this "I'm a victim" game. They're not being thrown in jail for their faith, they don't have to go to church in fear, they can go to Christian concerts, buy Christian books and music, they can go out and preach hate against other faiths and lifestyles such as this. They're not getting stoned or beheaded. If they want to know persecution read the New Testament of apostles getting beheaded. Read about John the Baptist getting beheaded. Now that's persecution. Being told you can't have your way with the law and you have to live in peace and fairness with other people and lifestyles is not persecution. I've been more persecuted for being a liberal more than I have for being a Christian and the persecuting comes from other so-called religious leaders and their followers.

[beam me up scottie]

8. So am I.

I don't dare come out of the atheists' closet for good reason.

Their hate is a disease and it infects even the supposedly educated ones.

The first doctor I had when I moved here was an outspoken homophobe and proud of it.

That was a real wake up call.

[tallahasseedem]

14. I know.

Before I went back to school for my graduate degree I worked for a Southern Baptist Dentist. It was probably the most eye opening experience I have ever had. The hate is palpable.

[beam me up scottie]

20. When I confronted him

about it, he asked me if I was a lesbian!:mad:

[SammyWinstonJack]

10. Scary indeed! My Dad was raised a Southern Baptist, turned him off

of organized religion completely, early on. As a result, we kids weren't raised with any religious beliefs, which I don't consider a bad thing.

[mconvente]

94. uhh, YEP...

fucking morans...

[FVZA_Colonel]

5. I wonder how they might react if someone were to publish a novel

detailing their potential secession from the US, and what would probably happen if they succeeded some how?

[roguevalley]

7. a lot of repressed homosexuals fill the pulpits of churches, don't

they? Personally, most people I know think of something other most of the time than another guy's genitals.

[beam me up scottie]

9. ROFL!

Good point, although as a hetero female, I'll admit I do think about them sometimes...

[FreedomAngel82]

35. Remember the BTK killer?

Perfect example.

[beam me up scottie]

11. Someone help me out, are all southern baptists like this?

Because someone at work was trying to tell me how tolerant they are compared to the "other" types.

Is Jimmy Carter a southern baptist?

[Bluebear]

12. And Fred Phelps/Westboro Baptist isn't a "real" Baptist

though frankly I fail to see the philosophical difference. His methods are extreme but this press release shows the same sentiment, that "God hates fags".

[beam me up scottie]

13. Yeah, he's another piece of work.

The freepers at work are probably just trying to distance themselves from these nazis when I'm around.

They know they'd better watch their racist language when I'm in the room.

[tallahasseedem]

16. I think for the most part, yes.

I have not met one that has not been this way. Its actually very sad because the hate is passed on to their children, prolonging the cycle.

[beam me up scottie]

19. I hate it down here.

It seems like I can't ever get away from the hate and condemnation.

It's in the papers, on church signs, in the mail, on the radio, it's horrible.

[Bluebear]

I don't know how you stand it. nt

[beam me up scottie]

74. I come to DU to get away from idiots like that.

Most liberal christians on DU are even more disgusted by them than I am.

[CAG]

21. I would say about 85% would consider themselves generally in the

christian right crowd. There are a few brave moderates still in there, my parents included, and a couple of my former pastors. I am now united methodist, thank God.

When I left the southern baptist church last spring, I had a heart to heart with my dad. He was certainly hoping I would stay and "fight the good fight" against these mean-spirited, selfish hypocrites, but I told him I couldn't see myself doing what he did; spending most of my adult life trying to reason with these 10 mpg SUV, yellow-magnet legalistic hypocrites. Its amazing that they could read Christs teachings and yet rationalize and twist it into such a self-centered woe-is-me pathetically spineless reactionary crowd.

[beam me up scottie]

22. Damn.

They really did hijack it, didn't they?

Kudos to you for having the courage to leave and be honest about why you did so.

[CAG]

28. Yeah, the takeover happened in the late 70's, with these right-wingers

taking over the convention and kicking out academic faculty in the southern baptist universities, and they just followed the falwell crowd down this path of old testament legalism.

They believe attempts at legislating morality and providing coercive education to children is actually an effective and moral way to convert people to christianity. Is this how Jesus ministered and won people to follow Him?? Wow, if so, my version of the Gospels must be missing some pages. He said forget legalism; its whats in your heart that counts (ie, slaughtering the lamb on the altar doesn't count if in your heart you didn't truly repent), he never taught legislating morality (in fact, he pretty much relatively ignored government), and if you took out of the four gospels his references to feeding the poor, healing the sick, & ministering to the needs of the disadvantaged, you'd have about a dozen paragraphs. Does this sound like the kind of love coming from the southern baptists and their other christian-right brothers??

[beam me up scottie]

36. Maat was just giving me more

info about these nazis in another thread.

We have good reason to be afraid of these people, non-christians and liberal christians alike.

They intend to force everyone to live the way they do.

[FreedomAngel82]

44. Exactly

All these people are going about "saving" people the wrong way. Jesus was for freewill and he never tried to impose what he said into the government. Instead he worked on people's hearts and minds. He helped and reached out to anybody. I remember reading of when he ate dinner with the tax collectors. His apostles freaked out and he still ate dinner with them.

[FreedomAngel82]

40. It is amazing

And what's also amazing is if you read through the gospel books about the Pharasiee's (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) they're the exact same today as they were in Jesus' time. Nothing changed sadly. :( It really is hard and spiritually draining but that's why I think my gift is doing music so I can freely express my feelings about everything that way instead of keeping them all locked up inside. I can in a small way understand where Jesus comes from where it concerns keeping on with the fight against these sick people. It's so hard not to lose your patience and give up.

[FreedomAngel82]

41. I believe Jimmy Carter is but I also

remember reading that he sent in his card to the Southern Baptist Convention group and told him he was leaving the group because of their stance on issues like this.

[beam me up scottie]

47. I am so glad to hear that.

I cannot imagine him having anything to do with them.

[Bridget Burke]

77. Jimmy Carter left the Southern Baptist Convention

www.beliefnet.com/story/47/story_4798_1.html

"I have finally decided that, after 65 years, I can no longer be associated with the Southern Baptist Convention," the 76-year-old former president said in a letter mailed to 75,000 Baptists nationwide on Thursday by a group of moderate Texas Baptists.

Carter said the Southern Baptist Convention, which has almost 16 million members, has adopted policies "that violate the basic premises of my Christian faith," including a denominational statement that prohibits women from being pastors and tells wives to be submissive to their husbands.

He's still a Baptist. Just not part of the SBC.

Here's an article about the Religious Right's merge with the Republican Party. Much of it happened in Texas; the SBC played a big part.

www.theocracywatch.org/taking_over.htm

[beam me up scottie]

85. Thanks.

I admire Jimmy Carter tremendously.

And thanks for the link-there's some valuable insight as to how their minds work:

In March, 1986, I (Joan Bokaer) was on a speaking tour in Iowa and received a copy of the following memo Robertson had distributed to the Iowa Republican County Caucus:

"How to Participate in a Political Party

Rule the world for God.

Give the impression that you are there to work for the party, not push an ideology.

Hide your strength.

Don't flaunt your Christianity.

Christians need to take leadership positions. Party officers control political parties and so it is very important that mature Christians have a majority of leadership positions whenever possible, God willing."

[FreedomAngel82]

86. Right

He's just not apart of the convention I believe.

[Silverhair]

79. Yes, and Billy Graham is a Democrat. NT

[beam me up scottie]

82. uh...thanks.

I think.

[peacebaby3]

100. Jimmy Carter resigned from the SB several years ago because of their

intolerance toward women and on many other issues. he said he could no longer be a part of their belief system. I think it was back in the late 90s that he left and made a very public statement about why he was leaving.

[beam me up scottie]

102. That would explain why

so many of them hate him down here.

One more reason for me to respect him.

[Ariana Celeste]

130. I know one that isn't like that.

My dear Gramma is SB, was born and raised that way in Alabama. She votes Democrat, is anti-war, actually cares about poor people, hates fundamentalism in any shape or form. Very tolerant of other beliefs and doesn't give two shits about what people do in their bedroom. Strongly supports seperation of church and state. Tore my uncle a new asshole when he tried to convert me back to religion. :)
She's a good lady, and takes the red print to heart. And all of her actions show that. She is a true Christian, that's for sure. And loves her atheist grandchildren. ;)

[beam me up scottie]

132. She sounds like quite a lady.

What does she think about all of the hate being spewed by these other members?

[Ariana Celeste]

134. She thinks they are fools.

She always says, religion isn't something to wear on your sleeve. And she feels that Jesus wouldn't agree with them. (And Jesus wouldn't force anything on other people.) When it comes down to it she thinks they are all just greedy, blind, fools. And I agree. :).
She doesn't attend church anymore, she has a pastor friend come out for coffee on Sundays. If that tells you anything.

[beam me up scottie]

137. Good for her.

Too bad so many of her fellow worshipers cannot see the hatred and intolerance that has become the signature of the "moral majority".

[Ex Lion Tamer]

140. No longer

He got away from them because of this type of shit.

[beam me up scottie]

146. Thanks.

I'm very happy to hear that.

And welcome to DU.
:hi:

[kweerwolf]

15. Aside from the irony of calling an anti-gay holy war a MANdate ...

I think it's time to report them to the FBI as an organized hate group that requires monitoring, too.

[bettyellen]

17. they are a HATE GROUP ! brillaint!

and damned funny, that first bit!
:rofl:

[Bluebear]

18. I like it. They ARE a hate group.

"We must intervene in public schools and provide these children a Christian education"..... sounds like a most unamerican plot.

[FreedomAngel82]

45. It is true, look at what they're doing

They're preaching hate. But of course I betcha they aren't doing anything about them.

[msongs]

23. darn cain't lynch n-e-g-r-o-e-s or gas j-e-w-s anymore so now.....

homosexuals are the last safe group to bash, torture and murder in the christian pantheon.

I was raised in the southern white, women-coloredpeope-heathen hating
religion.

they keep 2 sets of white sheets, and only one set goes on their beds.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/chinamart.htm

[Bluebear]

25. Oh my goodness is this beautiful..........

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

114. Actually I believe they're next-to-last

With atheists being last. I may be wrong, though. Not 100% sure about their priorities.

[Don Claybrook]

24. In order to affect a smooth withdrawl from the public schools

I'd like to request that all Southern Baptists serving on public school boards resign their posts in order to prepare for the next exodus. They want nothing to do with these dens of iniquity, so they should leave. Now.

[Bluebear]

26. I second the motion nt

[CAG]

29. Exacty; put up or shut up

Maybe the public schools could teach respect of individuals and proper citizenship without worrying about these little legalistic twerps crying against "cultural diversity."

Shall we remind them that Christ was a Jew (not to mention the disciples), most Christians outside the US aren't caucasian, and 99% of christians over the past two millenia WEREN'T right-wing 'murkins.

[leftofthedial]

30. Talibornagain Jihadists

how do they maintain tax exempt status?

[Rocknrule]

118. Because they work for the gov't

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. I am supposed to be working with homosexual activists?

Will they be calling me or should I contact them?

I don't want my students left behind.

[FreedomAngel82]

46. And another question to ask is

what qualifies as a homosexual act they're doing? How do they know someone is gay? If a guy wears a pink shirt or something? Well than my preacher should know he's gay for wearing a pink shirt.

[Ms. K]

33. Why would any of us be surprised by this?

Isn't there also a movement amongst fundie whackjobs to move to a part of, gosh, South Carolina, that is purely fundie, and eventually secede?

Hey, if these hatemongering bastards want to take their precious offspring out of public schools, GOOD! GO! GET OUT! Leave the public schools to those of us who don't want our kids to learn intolerance and hatred.

I'm sick and tired of the Southern Baptists insisting that because they have "God" on their side, and because they are True Christians, that we should shut up and let them run things. I don't fucking think so. I'm not living in a country where only white Christian men get a vote or a voice.

I'm with the rest of you who think these Talibornagain terrorists should be stripped of their tax-exempt status, and investigated and monitored as a hate group.

Does the Southern Poverty Law Center consider Southern Baptists a hate group? If not, they probably should.

[beam me up scottie]

38. They're certainly not shy about advertising it.

They're supposed to be given special consideration when they're no better than the neo-nazis or the KKK?

[FreedomAngel82]

48. The reason I think why

is because they know nobody is going to do a damn thing about it. We should start doing something about it as a country. We can no longer let them do this. These people aren't acting Christian at all. Jesus didn't even talk about homosexuality. Can't the ACLU do something? Or anybody?

[beam me up scottie]

49. We've been trying for years.

But we've been vilified by them until we're no better than the terrorists * is always ranting about.

We're the evil pinko commies who have been trying to take god out of the public schools and government, remember?

Now if all of you guys stood up, they might start to pay attention.

But even with all of the liberal christians standing up, it probably still wouldn't be enough.

The moderates have to realize what a threat they are too, and it will take a whole lot more than this to shake them out of their stupor.

[FreedomAngel82]

83. There are liberals who do stand up

I do whenever I feel brave. :blush: It's hard though sometimes and can be spiritually draining. But churches are doing so and I know I'm not a lone out there and churches like the UCC.

[beam me up scottie]

90. Oh, I know a lot of you do.

And many more probably would if their leaders would take the first step.

I realize it must be difficult for many christians because unlike atheists, you have no idea whether the person next to you will stand with you or against you.

[FreedomAngel82]

92. Exactly

And last election one Sunday right before church was about to start my brother was talking to a family friend about the election and she said (I still remember this clearly): "if anyone in our neighborhood has a Kerry sign they'll get shot". I don't know if she was saying she'd do that or if it's just a really conservative neighborhood. But I could sense from my brothers movements that he was nervous about that since he voted for Kerry like me. At my church all the college kids but me and him are pro-Bush. I'm sure if they knew what I did and I had the chance to talk to them about everything they wouldn't like him so much than. I remember in 2000 I was disappointed Gore "lost" (I would've voted for him since I adored him and Clinton but wasn't old enough) I was slowly starting to like Bush. Than I became old enough to vote and just did tons of research and didn't like him anymore after that. But yes you never know. I thankfully sit in between my dad and my brother. :) I proudly wore my Kerry pin on my purse and proudly proclaimed I was voting for him when a friend of mine asked and had a bumper sticker on my car. When I get my printer working again I'm going to print out another one that I have in mind. :) I've been working on getting braver about speaking out and praying about it and it's slowly happening. I'm not used to voicing out and talking. :blush: I've always been a real shy person.

[beam me up scottie]

97. Wow, I had no idea you were so young.

You are to be commended for being brave enough to speak up, especially at your age.

Many people who are much older than you do not have the courage to stand up for their convictions the way you do.

[MamaBear]

117. It's a Catch-22.

If we *all* stand up and tell them to sit down and shut up, then they're being persecuted for their faith and they win. If we don't all stand up and tell them to sit down and shut up, then they've won.

They have maneuvered us out of any kind of frontal action. We'll just have to behave like they SHOULD be behaving until the shame response kicks in with enough of them to start the change.

We shouldn't just sit, but we should be really careful about attacking. They're well prepared for that.

[beam me up scottie]

133. It never worked for us.

We've basically been playing defense until now and we're losing.

Badly.

We need more fighters.

These people have no shame and will never realize that they've become nazis.

They have every intention of taking over this country and forcing others to live by their creed.

[MamaBear]

142. I agree with you that more fighters are needed.

All I'm saying is we need to fight smart, and understand that they may be trying to goad us into a full frontal sort of attack, which permits them to push back hard and scream victim-hood at the same time.

Maybe we just need to have our counters prepared in advance as well, because the true believers among them will be happy to die and take as many of us with them as they possibly can, if it comes to that.

It may be a miracle that the US has avoided this sort of conflict for so long. My hope is that we can still find some way to communicate our way to a peaceful resolution. But I'm not underestimating the fanatics.

Peace ...

[beam me up scottie]

145. I'm with you.

That's what I meant about not being able to reach the moderates.

The fanatics want a showdown.

And we may not have any other choice.

We know that we can count on you to stand with us, and that's enough for me.

Sometimes I think about how it would be so easy to just move to another, more sane country...

[kweerwolf]

50. Southern Pover Law Center profiled various anti-gay groups ...

... for an "Intelligence Report" earlier this year in the spring issue of its magazine. The information is still available on its web site at:

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=522

[proud patriot]

37. Bluebear please read

In the future please limit your snips of articles to 4
paragraphs as per The Democratic Underground
copyright rules .

proud patriot Moderator
Democratic Underground

[Bluebear]

39. Dearest PP....

This is a press release, 'to national desk' et al... thought in this instance it is OK to reproduce in its entirety since they mean to disseminate it. (I doubt they wanted it disseminated here but I digress lol) Thanks for the reminder :)

[beam me up scottie]

42. "I doubt they wanted it disseminated here"

:spray:

I love you, BB!

[Bluebear]

43. :)

Back atcha and you know it :hug:

[DanCa]

51. These are the same group of people who refused to help hurricane

victims recieve water because the water came in beer cans correct? You know theres a reason why we have a constitution in this country. I think it was FDR who said "your rights end where my nose begin."

[Bluebear]

56. The very same. Let people dehydrate, long as the water ain't in a beercan.

SICK.

[kevinbgoode]

52. This is so full of crap. . .

and is every reason why the Southern Baptists should lose their tax-exempt status. I am sick and tired of listening to their garbage about "pro-homosexual activism" just because their panties are in a wad because every gay American isn't shaking in fear in a closet somewhere pondering how to commit suicide because they don't hate themselves enough for the Southern Baptists.

I have some news for these people - change your damned religion. That's right - you CHOSE a religious belief that demands persecution of others as a human sacrifice to your insecurities. Don't ask the schools, or the government, or the rest of the world, to buy into your damned paranoia and make themselves miserable to accommodate your mental dilemmas. It AINT gonna happen. Gays are NOT going to disappear, or slip into the closet and come out just long enough to do your cult-lady tinted blue hair...and we are acceptable because we EXIST and are IN the schools - which means our education is just as important as yours.
So if your cult requires that someone be fed to the volcano, don't get all huffy and puffy when people laugh at YOUR beliefs. . .after all, you are getting the payback for all the people you've murdered, vilified, driven to suicide, forced to live in fear, and gangbanged in society to further your chosen lifestyle of forced comformity.

As for recruiting people....BINGO. Now you know the BIGGEST reason why your stupid superstitions are banned in the public schools systems, because typically cults like the SBC don't know how to respect others and their beliefs. So take your arrogance and pull your kids out of the schools. There's no need to make a public announcement, ya know - just tell the Lord in the privacy of your cult building.

[FreedomAngel82]

84. And Jimmy Carter left them too

I remember reading how a few months ago Jimmy Carter sent in his card with the Southern Baptist Convention because of everything.

[Dr. Death]

120. Bravo, bravo

Well said!

:yourock:

[depakid]

53. Truly sick human beings

and people wonder why the South gets bashed so often....

[FreedomAngel82]

87. It's true

As a southner even I know that. Not all of us are that way but enough people are. When Johnson signed the 1965 voting rights act he said "We're (democrats) going to lose the south for a long time" and now look. And the south is called the Bible Belt. Really sad too. :(

[depakid]

103. My whole family hails from NC, Alabama & Georgia

and the kinds of things I hear every time I have to go back there make my jaw drop.

Not everyone's like that, but even people who you least suspect will open their mouths and make you shudder sometimes.

[Clark2008]

135. But there's idiots everywhere

It's not just limited to the South.

[NMMNG]

54. Why can't these wingnuts get it through their heads?

Our churches need to intervene to provide those children with a Christian education.


This is where you send your child if you want him/her to get an education:


If, on the other hand, you want your child to get a Christian education, you send him/her here:



The school-board doesn't come into the church and teach math, spelling, physical education and the like. The church doesn't have any right to come into the schools and teach their Christian principles. Does this need to be repeated???

[FreedomAngel82]

89. Exactly

And here in my town we have a few private/public religious schools kids can go to. Basically now days every youth at my church attends this Christian school. They have the basic classes of course but they also have classes for the religion (Bible classes and stuff). There's also a Catholic school down the block from where I live. Public school is called public for a purpose.

[Zhade]

55. These people are so FUCKING insane.

NT!

[LWolf]

57. This is not news.

It's a little more blatant than the usual propaganda, but the fact is that public education has been high on the right-wing's list of government programs to discredit, abolish, and privatize for at least a generation. Like everything else under *, what used to be hidden threads of hate, greed, intolerance, etc. are now "out" of the closet and treated as "normal."

They are right about one thing; public education introduces kids to a worldview different from that of right-wing extremists. Thus their eagerness to bring it down.

[FreedomAngel82]

93. Yup

They mobilized to get people on public education boards and all that. That's what we have to do. We're so behind on everything where it concerns that. Everyday people running for office. I think that's one reason why Paul Hackett has been doing so well since his failed Congressional race. He was an everyday person who served in Iraq and has a family and all that stuff. Yesterday on Stephanie Miller's show someone called in and told poll raitings for the Senate race and I believe Hackett is winning over the republican DeWine. I think Brown is either a little ahead or a little behind Hackett. But that really surprised me, so hopefully all of those people go out and vote and for a democrat.

[LWolf]

148. When I retire I'm going to run for my local school board.

Of course, I've got another 20 years to go, and we need people now. While I'm in the classroom, I'd like to have a school board behind me, supporting my efforts.

[Perky]

58. Blue Bear If these folks upset you so much why in the world

do you go to the Christain Wire Service on a daily basis and find things to post over here in DU.

It appears to me that your primary motivation is to create flame threads for the pruposes of heating up religion wars on this site.


Have you ever been to Sojo.net or other left leaning Chrisitian sites? Have you ever picked up a hammer and help Habitat build a house. I worked for six months at Habitat's world Headquarters in Americus, GA. The heart of the SBC south. You have no idea how many white southern Baptists have worked on better houseing for the poor, You have no idea how many Baptists opened their homes to the folks flooded out of Ner Orleans or how many fundies will be working to buld new houses in the the lower Ninth Ward. I assure you it will be a lot more then you apparently could imagine.

All you seem to want to do is stir up new ways to poke fun at the group as a whole. Why not pick up a hammer and help them rebuild and engage them directly. That what I have done and it is remarkably effective way to both understand them and destroy their illogical conclusions.

A reminder about the new rules on DU

4. Religion -- Discussion topics relating to religion that have little or no relation to politics are no longer permitted in the General Discussion forum, and must instead be posted in the Religion/Theology forum. To offset this tightening of the rules, we have loosened our guidelines regarding what sorts of comments about religion are considered inappropriate, and we have added clear warnings to those who are easily offended by religious discussion. We retain the all-important distinction that "discussions about ideas are usually permitted, but broad-brush bigoted statements about groups of people — either religious or non-religious — are not."

I am not saying lay off enitrely: some of it certainly need to be said. just be a little more open minded about the variety of religious work going on there.

[Bluebear]

59. Sorry Perky, I know publicizing bad religious news irritates you

but Southern Baptists insisting that they need to rescue public school children with Christian education is political. And yes, I have picked up a hammer and built a Habitat house in Minneapolis.

Baptists opened up their homes to hurricane victims...they also refused to hand out lifesaving water because it was in beer cans. Are you suggesting only good religious news should be reported on?

[Perky]

61. dup delete

[Perky]

62. dup delete

[Perky]

63. No I am not suggesting that at all

Re-read the last paragraphs.


I think you take the one instance of stupidity regarding the beer can flap and blow it into a broadbrush attack on all Baptists

I mean it was an SBC Church in Western North Carolins where the pastor tried to expel democrats and he was run out of town for his stupidity. The SBC is not my cup of tea I assure you but it does not walk in lockstep either. There are alot of good folks who offer kindenss and gentleness and compassion and a cold cup of water everyday in those churches as well.

I simply think it unjust to tar and feather the lot of them. I am just saying take on the wrongdoers rather than assigning the dispargaement to the entire group.

[Bluebear]

65. Perky, this idea is being forwarded by the SBC executive council

not random individual churches. You think it's flamebait, gays and lesbians would disagree and think the proposals are dangerous. The 'wrongdoers' in this instance sit on the highest council of the Southern Baptist convention, I don't know how much higher you can get in the organization.

[Perky]

67. I was referring to the post about the Beer cans flap

I don't disgree with the your orignal post. It is important. But I also think it digressed from there in to a broadbrush attack on all Baptists.

[Bluebear]

68. A habitat for humanity Christian is alright with me...

I have commented often how DU FreedomAngel's faith is an inspiration to me. I wish I had the faith you people have, and I admire Christ's teachings, but am also scared to death about the political power that the fundamentalist church holds in our society these days.

[Perky]

72. I agree

There are certainly lots of loons within Christianity and alot of them have microphones. But being an insider.. There are lots and lots of fissures occurring mainly over Bush's general ineptness and on the war in Iraq.

My prattling on about Christian Bashing is not so much about defending the fundies...because they are indefensible... and it certainly is not ultimately about feeling persecuted. I think some of the discussion is accurate ans some of it is pretty sophomoric and braodbrush, but I suppose it anybody right to have an opinion...


My concerns ultimately goes to trying to persuade Christians that liberals and Democrats do not hate Christians. I would never invite a believer to this site who was thinking about bolting the Christian Cabal...not because the politics are wrong, but because the site is not friendly to people of faith.

I suppose Christian on the left in DU could hang out on the religion page but that effectively becomes a ghetto.

My perspective of Christianity and politics is no doubt different then yours. Our perspective on many issues are no doubt motivated by our faith and I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. I happen to be opposed to abortion as a matter of conscience. I think Christians have an absolute right to be against abortion...but it serves up more harm than good to call people baby killers or whatever.

If the Christan right would spend more time on its knees praying for revival than trying to substitute it with a regimented morality or bashing liberals I think we would all be a lot better off.

But I also think that greater appreciation of diversity of faith on DU would be helpful... There are some folks who will tell you that Christianity is for idiots and folks that believe in fairy tales should not be allowed in the party.

[beam me up scottie]

75. "Christianity is for idiots" ?

"and folks that believe in fairy tales should not be allowed in the party" ?

Right. :eyes:

[Perky]

76. You agree with that position?

Or you don't think there are posts like that?

[beam me up scottie]

81. ~

[mondo joe]

88. If being "friendly" means ignoring press releases because noticing them

might make someone uncomfortable, that is too high a price to pay.

[FreedomAngel82]

95. And you should be afraid as am I

They are scary. It's why I can't be quiet anymore and have to speak up when I can. :blush: I'm still really shy though but working on that. They're dangerous to our democracy and all hypocrites as well. They talk about how bad Iraq was before we got there and how they now have freedoms etc. but not us as a country eh? I'm not going to let these anti-democratic jerks take it away from anyone else. Freewill comes to everyone and these selfish bastards are trying to take that way to preach their anti-gay hatefilled spew.

[beam me up scottie]

73. Perky, If Bluebear's posts upset you so much, why in the world

do you read his threads and then complain about them?

It appears to me that your primary motivation is finding reasons to be offended for the purpose of complaining about religious discussions.

Did you skip over the part of the rules that strongly advises you to avoid this subject if you are easily offended by discussion relating to religion?

[mondo joe]

80. I appreciate Blue Bear posting these things.

And it's certainly in keeping with the DU rules.

Why do you read Blue Bear's posts if you find them so troubling?

[FreedomAngel82]

96. Exactly

I don't read everything I see here. Some things just don't intrest me to read.

[mondo joe]

99. Seems to me more about what some don't want others to read rather than

what they don't want to read - because it's easy enough to ignore a thread or poster.

And when one wants to prevent others from reading material, we've got a problem.

[Perky]

106. Please please understand

I am not talking about censorship. everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am just saying that I wish some of it would be dialed back a bit by the posters. Not beccuase they are wrong or right, but simply because on a DU Board it seems like the wrong audience to launch the attcks. I mean would it not be more effective on free Republic? To use the church term "you're preaching to the Choir" We already know how insidious the fundies can be.

I mean yeah...sure....I could ignore the threads in their entirety I suppose. But my Christianity leads me to be a democrat and I have never preached at anybody here, contended they were headed for Hell, called them idiots, I do not believe I have even used Scripture verses in a counter attack. In fact I have never even defended the actions of the fundies.
My tact has always been asking people to ease up and taking pains to distinguish and clafify how there are ven such things as democratic fundies and even deomcratic evangelicals.

when I ask for a little less heated rhetoric, I get accused of claiming peresecution or calling for censorship. I think that is about three steps in logic that just is not there.

Liberal Christians were at the forefront of abolition and the civil rights ovements. Liberal Christians we at the hear of the anti-war movement. Liberal Christians are at the hear of the Habitat Movement and Hbitat is an evangelical organization

So what,if I happen to believe in Creation...I am not talking about teaching creationism or intelligent design.

My bent has always been that is always unfair to paint people too broadly and I have asked only for a modicum of respect for those of us who are guided by our faith to be in the battle.


Liberal Christians do not want to be as politcally power hungry as the fundies, we just want our Church back. And whether you see it this way or not... that is far more important battle to wage given my world view.

I am simply saying that it would be easier to attract people with misgivings about the lockstep alliance , if Dems did not make it so hard to change horses.

[mondo joe]

108. You're asking for voluntary censorship for PR purposes.

I don't find that a compellnig argument for a Democratic UNDERGROUND board.

[Perky]

113. voluntary self-censorship I suppose.

I guess I am of the view that if I would not say it to someone at a dinner party or in the workplace because it would be deemed inpolite, rude or insensitive, I would not say it here.

It simply a good standard to live by. (of course, that is guided by my faith :)) To each his own.

[mondo joe]

122. I'm sorry, but I can't see plating PR spin while a Jihad is declared on

me, just in case there are a small handful of Jihadists who might change sides if we could just not be so upset about the Jihad to begin with.

[Perky]

126. Wait wait wait

Are you saying that all fundies are Jihadists? All Christians? Please clarfiy.

[mondo joe]

127. I'm referring those who declare opposition to me - as in this

SBC press release, and other declarations.

[Perky]

129. I thought the original post was interesing in that

what saying effectively was that the combination of the "homosexual clubs" and a change in curriculum was having the effect of pushing out those that disagree and the theologian were saying of this that they need an exit strategy.

Personally, I have not heard of any specific instance in which the school bard and the fundies were fighting over homosexual curriculum. a l ot of this sabre rattling honestly has mre to do with pastors positioning themselves for finding positions at larger churches.

But time will tell.


Personally, I think the internal fight over an exit strategy from public education would be fascinating to watch..because it would divde the SBC in new ways. It has overtones abandonment of the world and that would cause a rift between the fundies and the evangelicals....ah sorry too much inside ball game stuff. IF SBC leadership treid to eexcute such a plan, it is safe to say the church would fracture.

[mondo joe]

124. Oh, and at work or a party politics is bad form - but THIS is a political

board - why on earth conduct ourselves as if we're at work or a dinner party?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

116. I understand

but not in the way you'd like.

[TrogL]

128. The problem is they're taking it to a whole new level

and Liberal Christians aren't doing a damn thing about it.

Before you start in on me, I'm a liberal Christian and organist at my church.

What I fail to hear from my own pulpit, the local newspapers, or pretty much anyplace else is a liberal Christian going on record as opposed to fundamentalism in general and the Southern Baptist church's [sic] position on it.

Hence I was thunderstruck to hear the Roman Catholic Church raise its voice.

I think many Christians on this board need to get a grip and realize that those of us fighting 'Christians' (in name only) do not have you in our sights.

[Perky]

107. Please please understand

I am not talking about censorship. everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am just saying that I wish some of it would be dialed back a bit by the posters. Not beccuase they are wrong or right, but simply because on a DU Board it seems like the wrong audience to launch the attcks. I mean would it not be more effective on free Republic? To use the church term "you're preaching to the Choir" We already know how insidious the fundies can be.

I mean yeah...sure....I could ignore the threads in their entirety I suppose. But my Christianity leads me to be a democrat and I have never preached at anybody here, contended they were headed for Hell, called them idiots, I do not believe I have even used Scripture verses in a counter attack. In fact I have never even defended the actions of the fundies.
My tact has always been asking people to ease up and taking pains to distinguish and clafify how there are ven such things as democratic fundies and even deomcratic evangelicals.

when I ask for a little less heated rhetoric, I get accused of claiming peresecution or calling for censorship. I think that is about three steps in logic that just is not there.

Liberal Christians were at the forefront of abolition and the civil rights ovements. Liberal Christians we at the hear of the anti-war movement. Liberal Christians are at the hear of the Habitat Movement and Hbitat is an evangelical organization

So what,if I happen to believe in Creation...I am not talking about teaching creationism or intelligent design.

My bent has always been that is always unfair to paint people too broadly and I have asked only for a modicum of respect for those of us who are guided by our faith to be in the battle.


Liberal Christians do not want to be as politcally power hungry as the fundies, we just want our Church back. And whether you see it this way or not... that is far more important battle to wage given my world view.

I am simply saying that it would be easier to attract people with misgivings about the lockstep alliance , if Dems did not make it so hard to change horses.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

115. Ahem.

[Bouncy Ball]

139. I'm a Christian and I like finding out what bugfuck insane scary

shit those "Christian" groups are up to.

[beam me up scottie]

143. Another BB with

a way with words!

To both BB's :toast:

[ComerPerro]

60. Fine. I hope these people take their kids out of our system

and set up their own little twisted schools, where they can teach about how God created man in his own image, the world was created in seven days (or over millions of years by God, the designer), gravity is merely a name we use to describe God's will, and the Pythagorean Theorem holds true only because god wanted right triangles to have that property.

I say, good riddance.

I can't wait until these idiots find that their kids can't even get basic jobs, since their "diplomas" are a joke.

They want to talk about values? I say they can shove their values up their asses.

Remember, the BTK killer had many of the same "Christian" values as these people do...

[smirkymonkey]

64. I hope they all move to South Carolina and seceed from the Union.

Then we can declare war upon them. :evilgrin:

These people are a cancer on humanity - this relgious bullshit needs to be stopped NOW because it is getting completely out of control.

[RayOfHope]

66. My brother and sister in law are SBC fundies

My brother is a public school principal, but my sister in law homeschools their kids.


So I guess public school is okay as long as my bro needs to make a living, but too corrupt and immoral for their kids. :eyes:

[FreedomAngel82]

98. Oh brother

I think my cousin and his wife are baptist but I'm not totally sure. Either that or Methodist's. They're homeschooling their son for kindegarten but after that will decide if he will go to public school or not afterwards. He really wants to go to public school so he can be with his friends and all that and seems really excited about it. Kindegarten is understandable since it's mostly basic stuff.

[atommom]

69. It was quite a coup for the RW when they convinced the fundies

that public education was their enemy. For the Repubs, it's one more step towards dismantling public education. The bigotry (and the stupidity) is unbelievable.

[noiretextatique]

70. everybody is out to get them

sin hovering around every corner, traditional morality threatened by homosexuals lurking in the schools :scared:
what is it that they are so afraid of?

[Bill McBlueState]

71. jihad -- excellent choice of words

We need to frame radical Christians with the same language that's used for radical Muslims.

[dogfacedboy]

91. If I were a homosexual,

I would go and eat their babies! That'll learn 'em!

[xchrom]

105. they taste bad.

now, catholic babies -- they're tasty!

ok do i have to tell ANYBODY that was being sarcastic?

[WritingIsMyReligion]

101. WTF?

Oh no! Gays are trying to ruin everything! WAAAAAAAHHHH!

:eyes::eyes:

:wtf:

[libnnc]

104. Oh goody they're having their convention in Winston-Salem

Why can't they stay in South Carolina? I really don't want their cabal commiserating in my town. Guess that means there'll be long lines at the Golden Corral and Cracker Barrel :puke:

Heads up for the Silver Fox and the Paper Moon strip joints too...those girls will have to put in some overtime.

[VaYallaDawg]

111. Better yet, look out for bad disguises in the gay bars. n/t

[seabeyond]

109. why the hell isnt IRS doing these people. IRS went after a liberal

church

[porphyrian]

110. Well, at least they're openly bigotted assholes.

So many people try to hide it, and that's just so dishonest.

[Dr. Death]

112. One of their top leaders is named "Moran"?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

How apropos!

"Roger Moran, a prominent Southern Baptist leader from Missouri and member of the SBC executive committee"

[Bluebear]

144. Delicious, ain't it? good catch! nt

[Rocknrule]

119. Is it possible to be a follower of Jesus

without being a Christian?

I really don't want to be associated with these control freak nazis anymore

[VOX]

123. "secular worldview taught in our public schools" = the Earth is round,

**all** human beings have value, do what's best for the greater good, tolerate and understand those who are different from you, fighting is not an effective way to solve an argument, include everybody on your team, help those less fortunate...Ooooo, how ***dangerous*** is this "new morality?" :sarcasm:

So, in a nutshell, the "secular worldview" is everything BushCo is NOT. :grr:

[xxqqqzme]

125. '...public schools has not only laid

the foundation for a 'new morality...'

No public schools DO NOT teach morality, but responsible PARENTS DO!

These asswipes blame all their own shortcomings and failures on EVERY other thing, person or group. No wonder they worship *!

[Bake]

136. Al Mohler is no theologian

Karl Barth, Rudolf Bultmann, et al. were theologians! Mohler is no theologian. He's barely a tinhorn administrator of a once-great seminary (and one of my alma maters). Oh, did I say he's a HACK?

Bake

[Bouncy Ball]

138. Nah, normal people just know that sexuality isn't something

you choose and the high rate of gay teen suicides is appalling.

Right. It's the Gay Mafia. Always with the Paranoid Persecution Complex with these people.

And tax the churches, btw. My UU church would happily be taxed if it meant every other church had to be taxed, too.

[Initech]

141. Where do these people get this information from?

Seriously, I want to know...

I've never been approached by a "gay activist" who's trying to "recruit me to the homosexual lifestyle".

[beam me up scottie]

147. Congratulations on an another excellent (and non-flammable) thread, BB!

:applause:

I look forward to many more and I know I'm not the only one.