Liberal - What does that mean on Democratic Underground?

[OKNancy]

Liberal - What does that mean on Democratic Underground?

The other day mvd posted this:


Liberal means protecting our civil liberties (the terrorists REALLY won when the Patriot Act was enacted)

Liberal means tax fairness (NOT thinking of ways to gouge the middle class)

Liberal means eliminating poverty is a more noble goal than making Halliburton richer

Liberal means everyone having access to health care

Liberal means keeping a religion from controlling everyone else

Liberal means standing up for the worker

Liberal means making sure that corporations don't have free reign to make your life miserable

Liberal means not going to war over lies and false intelligence

Liberal means protecting a woman's right to choose, and therefore also some lives

Liberal means equality for all races, both sexes, and people of all sexual orientations

Liberal means protecting our natural habitat and keeping our air and water reasonably clean

So next time you are called a liberal by a right winger, tell him/her what it really means! Feel free to add to my list.
----------------------------------------

As I looked at this post and read and recommended it I thought,
“What a shame that there are too many people on DU who think that unless one believes every tinfoil or outrageous theory on DU then one must not be a good liberal."

Liberal does NOT mean that a person believes that there was a controlled explosion of a WTC building.
Liberal does NOT mean that a person believes there was massive election fraud and therefore Kerry won the election in 2004.
Liberal does NOT mean that we think the world is run by Skull and Bones members.
Liberal does NOT mean that Hillary Clinton is Satan.
Liberal does NOT mean that if you are poor that you can’t shop at Walmart.
Liberal does NOT mean that if you own a gun, eat red meat, or drive a SUV that you are somehow less worthy.

Liberal means a lot of things. I’d like to see less invective directed at those who agree with MY list.

[Armstead]

1. These things aren't cut and dried

For example, I tend not to be a conspiracy theorist. However, I do believe there is a lot of crap that falls under the heading of "business as usual" under the current status quo. There are connections and a fundamental arrogence that is shared by the elites, and it is locking average Americans out of the system.

I don't believe Hillary is Satan. But I do believe she should not be a presidential candidate, and the Clintons represent a form of Democratic "centrist" politics that has become an anachronism.

I believe the poor should be able to shop at Wal Mart without being criticized. However, I also believe it's important to make clear how the Wal mart syndrome is MAKING PEOPLE POOR, and driving down our overall standard of living.

We ought to be able to discuss these subjects without invective. But we also have to acknowledge the differences that exist on our side, as well as the shared beliefs.

[OKNancy]

5. No quibble from me

I agree with what you write. My problem, and it has bugged me for some time, is the "DU orthodoxy". I really think too many people are afraid to speak against the orthodoxy and therefore we appear to be fringe when most members are really not at all.

[Armstead]

8. Since i sometimes get beat up for going against it, I know what you mean

At times I post things that are either contrary or deliberatly challenging to the zeitgeist of DU. And I've got the batle scars to prove it.

So I knoiw what you're tallking about. Often I think it's the tone that makes the difference between honest debate and flame wars.

[Fenris]

2. Hmmm...

I don't believe the WTC was destroyed by anything other than airliners.

I don't believe Kerry won in 2004.

I don't believe Skull & Bones is anything other than rich kid club at Yale.

I don't believe Hillary Clinton is Satan, or in the service of the Dark Lord.

I don't believe anyone should be prohibited by ideology from patronizing a business when it is financially advantageous to them.

My family owns firearms, eats beef, and travels via SUV.

Plus I live in Texas. I must be a closet Republican. :)

[OKNancy]

6. Yes, you must be a Republican

there is no other answer.

:rofl:

[papau]

3. I like your post - but folks like to discuss which flavor is the true Dem

liberal -

and I doubt that will stop. I join with you in wishing a little less invective - but I have friends who could not talk if not allowed to also swear.

In any case I agree with your points - and with your point of view.

[Orrex]

4. Your most important point:

“What a shame that there are too many people on DU who think that unless one believes every tinfoil or outrageous theory on DU then one must not be a good liberal."

That's the crux, IMO.

Nice list--yours and the OP.

[Kralizec]

22. Belief and Consideration are two different things!!

You are right. To believe everything of anything is dangerous. But this must not be confused with consideration of things. It's obvious enough when things are sour, but it doesn't mean that they should have a fair chance to be considered. It's part of the heavier burden of being a liberal.

[mvd]

7. Good thread, Nancy!

Thanks for expanding on my thread. I recommended this thread in return. Yes, those things ARE NOT equal to being a liberal. Here are my replies:

(Liberal does NOT mean that a person believes that there was a controlled explosion of a WTC building.)

Didn't believe so at first, but the book "9/11 Revealed: The Unanswered Questions" raised my eyebrows

(Liberal does NOT mean that a person believes there was massive election fraud and therefore Kerry won the election in 2004.)

I think Kerry probably won Ohio and New Mexico, and Florida might have had fraud. I'm not sure that Kerry won the popular vote, though.

(Liberal does NOT mean that we think the world is run by Skull and Bones members.)

I agree!

(Liberal does NOT mean that Hillary Clinton is Satan.)

I agree!

(Liberal does NOT mean that if you are poor that you can’t shop at Walmart.)

Agree here, too. Walmart isn't their fault.

(Liberal does NOT mean that if you own a gun, eat red meat, or drive a SUV that you are somehow less worthy.)

Not an SUV or gun fan, but we must reach out to all of these

Again, good thread! :hi:

[OKNancy]

10. Yes, but

"9/11 Revealed: The Unanswered Questions"
doesn't mean anything more than a raised eyebrow. It doesn't really prove anything.

I'm a skeptic at heart and I need real proof, not just speculation. In any case, my point is that it doesn't make me a bad member of DU if I don't believe it.

I'm a bleeding heart liberal and I think that is all that is needed to feel welcome on DU.

:hug:

[mvd]

12. I agree with that point

I was more disturbed by that book than you are, I guess (they really researched well and showed a lot of open ends,) but I wasn't making a statement about you. :hug:

One more thing: being liberal DOES NOT mean being against people of faith. I'm a liberal Christian.

[laststeamtrain]

9. Seven Liberal Arts: knowledge and skills necessary to be free

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_arts

I know this isn't exactly on point but I like to remind myself of these things from time to time.

I think social progress can be measured by how many people can have a liberal arts education.

It used to be a 'class' thing. It shouldn't be. It doesn't have to be.
It's one of the 'universals' along with health care and other basic human rights.

I think a liberal believes this. A progressive believes it.

[OKNancy]

11. Thank you for the two links

My daughter is majoring in Journalism. Fortunately, she has to take a lot of " culture" classes and liberal arts classes to round out her education.

As far as health care...what a mess. One would think it would be a basic right, but I wonder now. I'm old enough to remember when health insurance wasn't really needed. We all paid the doctor as needed. Of course, my doctor made house calls for $20.00, so that tells you how old I am!

[DURHAM D]

13. Liberal simply means to "advance democracy " and

a better democracy serves the interests of the people, all of the people.

Advancing democracy allows for a wide range ideas. Nothing is set in stone and the people's involvement means it is constantly changing, requires discussion and argument, and hopefully results in progress.

And by the way, I dislike the use of progressive because it seems like a shame based reaction to liberal.

[SeekerofTruth]

14. WOW! A post I can respond too, and probably not get flamed on! lol

I agree with your post.

Many times I feel Liberals are the same sheeple they disgustingly say conservatives are. If you don't tow the liberal line, you aren't a liberal. It seems to me, the only ideas I've seen from most liberals are more government or the government running everything.

"TRUE" liberals don't just flame dissenting ideas, they say. Let's try it and see how it works. We can then improve upon it.

I believe in school choice. (Let's try it and see how it works)

I don't believe in nationalized health care. I have faith in the free market (if the rules/laws are properly set up). So let's try health care where the government and free enterprise work together.

I believe in a balanced budget.

I believe in gay marriage (at least I won't get flamed for this one )

:)

[mvd]

15. Can't agree with you on school choice or health care

And I believe that if programs work well, we can have a minor deficit. Certainly not as big as the Repukes have. Welcome to DU - I'm interested in what you have to say. :hi:

[OKNancy]

16. I won't flame you as that is not my nature

I usually just pass on posts I don't agree with. I will say, that I don't agree with you on school choice as I believe that the public school system is what made our nation great. Too bad it has fallen now, but the system is a good one, it just needs to be improved.

And I really believe the time has come for Universal, government
sponsored healthcare. Perhaps we could compromise and say that if a person would rather not be under the system, then they could opt out. However, as it is now, there are just too many working people
(not welfare people) who can not afford health insurance. I think your point about free enterprise in the health system is interesting. That's because when I was young, it was a free system, and prices were affordable. Now it's run by the insurance companies.
It's no longer "free enterprise", it's greed enterprise.

All in all, your opinions don't mean you aren't a good liberal! Welcome to DU.

[Orrex]

17. May I add something?

I usually just pass on posts I don't agree with. I will say, that I don't agree with you on school choice as I believe that the public school system is what made our nation great. Too bad it has fallen now, but the system is a good one, it just needs to be improved.

Conservatives love to point to the "failure" of the public school system, and they invariably use some variation of the strawman phrase "throwing more money at the problem won't help." Hannity, in a similar way, almost daily refers to the "failure" of government-based assistance programs.

What is never made clear is that Conservatives have from the very beginning worked very hard to kill these programs, either through fund-starvation or bullshit whispering campaigns and other tactics. And then, once their destructive efforts begin to succeed, Conservatives crow that the program was doomed to failure because of its very nature.

The public school system would be excellent if it were funded properly and without foolish adherence to arbitrary national testing "standards."

I applaud school choice, and I commend anyone who wishes to pursue other academic options, with two qualifiers:

1. You're still obliged to pay school tax, because you reap the indirect benefits as much as any other citizen
2. You don't get public tax dollars to fund your choice. I've never heard a compelling argument in favor of tax-funded school vouchers.

[RB TexLa]

18. 2. You don't get public tax dollars to fund your choice. I've never heard

First we are not planning to have children, but many of my friends do. I have never understood why they want the vouchers. My family were all public school administrators and teachers, and I support public education, but if I were to have children I would put them in Catholic school. The reason is I would want a certain type of education for them, and for that I would pay money, and I would want vouchers no where near it. Any money from the government comes with strings, that is a fact. They do not just hand you money and say do whatever you want with it. Once parochial schools start taking money from the government, whether it is in the form of a check from the government or a voucher from a parent doesn't matter, they become subject to the government.

A friend of mine is on the board of a small Christian school and they passed a rule that they would never accept any form of government vouchers. They are not wacky far right, I don't think they are tied to any domination or particular church just a small school that provides an accredited education in a manner the parents are willing to pay for and do not want disturbed by the federal government.

Of course I have been waiting to hear the next stupid demand of "I don't use the public bus system so I should get a voucher to help pay for my car!"

[rman]

20. RW govt is enormous, very secretive, with highly centralized power,

and spendning more then any Dem government.
The notion that Libs want big government and/or everything run by government is a Right-Wing meme disigned to turn people off from voting Dem.

[Marie26]

19. What is the difference between a liberal & a progressive?

People & politicians seem to shy away from being labeled "liberal". And it seems like most liberal blogs/papers describe themselves as "progressive". What is the difference between these two terms? Is there a difference? Or is it just that conservatives have given a bad connotation to liberal, so people choose another name?

[Kralizec]

21. Here is what President John F. Kennedy said:

If we can get back on this track, then things will be moving in the right direction again...

What is a Liberal?

Sen. John F. Kennedy, acceptance of the New York Liberal Party Nomination, September 14, 1960.

What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?" If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of "Liberal." But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."

But first, I would like to say what I understand the word "Liberal" to mean and explain in the process why I consider myself to be a "Liberal," and what it means in the presidential election of 1960.

In short, having set forth my view -- I hope for all time -- two nights ago in Houston, on the proper relationship between church and state, I want to take the opportunity to set forth my views on the proper relationship between the state and the citizen. This is my political credo:

I believe in human dignity as the source of national purpose, in human liberty as the source of national action, in the human heart as the source of national compassion, and in the human mind as the source of our invention and our ideas. It is, I believe, the faith in our fellow citizens as individuals and as people that lies at the heart of the liberal faith. For liberalism is not so much a party creed or set of fixed platform promises as it is an attitude of mind and heart, a faith in man's ability through the experiences of his reason and judgment to increase for himself and his fellow men the amount of justice and freedom and brotherhood which all human life deserves.

I believe also in the United States of America, in the promise that it contains and has contained throughout our history of producing a society so abundant and creative and so free and responsible that it cannot only fulfill the aspirations of its citizens, but serve equally well as a beacon for all mankind. I do not believe in a superstate. I see no magic in tax dollars which are sent to Washington and then returned. I abhor the waste and incompetence of large-scale federal bureaucracies in this administration as well as in others. I do not favor state compulsion when voluntary individual effort can do the job and do it well. But I believe in a government which acts, which exercises its full powers and full responsibilities. Government is an art and a precious obligation; and when it has a job to do, I believe it should do it. And this requires not only great ends but that we propose concrete means of achieving them.

Our responsibility is not discharged by announcement of virtuous ends. Our responsibility is to achieve these objectives with social invention, with political skill, and executive vigor. I believe for these reasons that liberalism is our best and only hope in the world today. For the liberal society is a free society, and it is at the same time and for that reason a strong society. Its strength is drawn from the will of free people committed to great ends and peacefully striving to meet them. Only liberalism, in short, can repair our national power, restore our national purpose, and liberate our national energies. And the only basic issue in the 1960 campaign is whether our government will fall in a conservative rut and die there, or whether we will move ahead in the liberal spirit of daring, of breaking new ground, of doing in our generation what Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman and Adlai Stevenson did in their time of influence and responsibility.

Our liberalism has its roots in our diverse origins. Most of us are descended from that segment of the American population which was once called an immigrant minority. Today, along with our children and grandchildren, we do not feel minor. We feel proud of our origins and we are not second to any group in our sense of national purpose. For many years New York represented the new frontier to all those who came from the ends of the earth to find new opportunity and new freedom, generations of men and women who fled from the despotism of the czars, the horrors of the Nazis, the tyranny of hunger, who came here to the new frontier in the State of New York. These men and women, a living cross section of American history, indeed, a cross section of the entire world's history of pain and hope, made of this city not only a new world of opportunity, but a new world of the spirit as well.

....

the complete transcript

[BeFree]

23. Being Liberal on DU?

Does that mean we should just pass by threads that we don't agree with? Nope.

That we should pander to the snivelling, belly-button-pondering, impish words and allow them to go by unquestioned? Hell No!

That being Liberal on DU means we should always agree with other Liberals, no matter what?
:puke:

I am a Liberal Environmentalist Tree-hugger, and that's how I really introduce myself to some people. Liberal means I am free to say what I want, and so are you. But don't expect me to agree with you, as I don't expect it from you. Of course, eventually, you will agree with me! LOL

[Kralizec]

24. kick

:kick:

[dkofos]

25. Add Getting our moneys worth for our taxes

[cmd]

26. To me it means For the Children

Being a liberal means that I believe in building a better future for my children and for the children of every other American. It means free education from cradle to grave, health care from cradle to grave and a safe, healthy environment.

It also means paying for the above and not passing the bills on to others. Being liberal is being responsible for the future.