DU donors: Don't you think its time for moderated comments?

[iconoclastNYC]

For all the donations why is that you can't moderate subcomments. Greatest is fine and dandy but take my expert oppinion. This site is based on PHP which is about the easiest system in the world to code. They could do moderation if they wanted to take the time to do it.

Who's with me?

[lvx35]

1. do you mean like slashdot

where you can rank a really good subcomment up, or a bad one down?

[iconoclastNYC]

2. Yes. Exactly.

And flag troll bait. DU is cool but technologically speaking it's stuck in the 90s. I'm a web developer by trade and If i had the resources the admins have at thier disposal I'd make DU the most advanced discussion site on the internet.

[lvx35]

3. I'm a web-dev too.

I totally agree that this place would be better with that one feature. Its all about when a post has 83 reponses, and #79 was brilliant but nobody will ever see it. You need to be able to rank up #79 to a 5, then when people see something has 83 presponses they can only view posts above three, and read the BEST responses rather than the FIRST 30 reposnses and miss the other ones.
But I know the big thing with DU is traffic, this site gets hammered, and its already on like 5 servers or something, so my understanding is that they try to keep it simple. Still, if its structured the way I imagine, reply ranking would only be another column added a table, and it would be a TINYINT at that, so I think it wouldn't hurt.

[iconoclastNYC]

24. I'm not saying it would be easy.

But this site makes tons of money and they could do it with a beta test program and performance profiling.

[dutchdemocrat]

4. I am also a developer...

And DU may be 'oh so nineties' but it's fast, clean and serves it's purpose well.

My own experience with a large community demanding bells and whistles was a huge increase in php requests, huge increase in bandwidth, and a slower, bulkier site - which eventually hurt the community more than it helped it.

And I have tuned and optimized to the max using Zend, tightening code etc.

These guys are doing the right thing - at the right pace. Maybe they are not using the best or most popular forum software but that's also a good thing in some ways as it's a lot less hackable than say... phpbb, SMF, or VB - which suffer from kiddie scripters so much you have to update constantly in order to keep your security levels up.

The balance between community tools, forum layout and ease of use, speed, and design is interconnected and DU is on the right path as far as I am concerned.

[Mutley]

5. I'm no developer...

but I know I like this forum software. It's very easy to read, and pleasing to the eye, IMO. It could always be FR's forum software. :rofl:

[Missy M]

6. I also like this forum software very much. I enjoy reading through...

all the comments, good or bad.

[Mutley]

9. I usually read all the comments, too.

Unless I run out of time, or they're mostly comments like, "Me too!", or, "Right on!", or, "Bush sucks!" In that case I just scan the subject lines for actual intelligent responses. (I've done plenty of the "me too" type comments myself, but I don't feel as though I have to read through 100 of them. :) )

[lvx35]

13. that's what I'm saying.

all the me toos, and right ons...we just need a button for voting certain replies up, so we don't have to say "me too!" ;)

[lvx35]

12. I don't think this little thing is too much.

First of all I think DU is well done, I agree. But I don't think adding this little feature that lets us vote for relies is going to slow it down. Its probably just a tinyint added to the table that holds replies (presuming this exists) and a couple of extra lines of PHP for the views. Also, I don't think that casting the votes wouldn't slow life down much either, because I *think* MySQL will have the relevant part of the table held in memory because it just rendered the page off of it, so no diggin on hard drives. That gives us the basic. The only other thing you might have is a way to see it "sorted by" votes, which might slow life down, but it could be optional.

I do hear what your saying about bells and whistles...But I have seen some brilliant replies I wish I could have brought attention to.

[NMMNG]

10. The problem I've found with that

Is that some people misuse the "downvote" feature. I've been on a forum with both upvote and downvote capabilities on individual posts, and in some instances when trolls or others take a dislike for a particular member they will stalk them and maliciously downvote all of their posts just to be cruel. Then the individual has countless downvotes that have nothing to do with the quality of their posts, but rather to do with the fact that someone is being crude.

[lvx35]

11. Good point

the difference between here and a place like slashdot is that the issues get so hot and well...political! So I'm not sure I like downvoting...but there have been some replies that are just brilliant, and I wish I could call attention to them.

[iconoclastNYC]

19. You haven't been to Slashdot have you.

Look at any Apple or Microsoft fanboy pots and tell me things don't get hot over there. LOL....

[lvx35]

27. :) All I'm saying is that its not as crazy there.

I mean the thing is that microsofties and OSS guys can disagree, but think of the rebub hoards that would be attacking here if they allowed something like Anonymous Coward posting!!! ;)

[iconoclastNYC]

29. No.

No anon posts on DU 2.0.

Just DU+moderated comments. its' a beautiful feature. DU should should have them.

[ultraist]

26. I agree about not having "downvoting"

Downvoting will just encourage the rabid, foaming at the mouth lynch mob types. The bigger problem with it though is that it would become an effective tool for trolls.

[applegrove]

7. I think they do a great job. There is simply so much that goes on all

the time here. So many topics and so many posts. And when the shit hits the fan in Washington the site already is forced to level 2, 3 or 4 where many functions do not work.

I would not want to see anything slowed down. If that is the cost of ranking replies - it is not worth it.

Somehow - DU is a very egalitarian spot. Tis nice actually. There is no ruling cleek.

[iconoclastNYC]

20. Obviously

You don't do anything to slow the system down. Unless you aren't very good at your job as a programmer.

[fasttense]

8. I like it the way it is.

I'm just a user and don't have any idea about computers but I know I like this site's clean and easy style. Personally, I'm a bit of a rebel and frequently find I like what nobody else likes. So being able to see all the comments makes it fun for me. I could never understand all those rating thingies on AOL boards. They never made any sense to me until you just explained them. So thanks for educating me.

[tkmorris]

14. This has been discussed by Skinner et al

More than once if I'm not mistaken.

The reason it isn't being done, at least not yet, is not because DU is stuck in the last decade. It has more to do with a fear that posts may become "popularity contests", and drive away opinions that might not ne quite mainstream for DU.

There is some truth to this view. Let's face it, anything posted by WP or about a dozen other select few would instantly get voted up by a lot of bandwagon riders. Other lesser known posters would struggle along. Newbies, especially those who don't know the "accepted DU POV" (Chavez is good, Iraq war is bad, troops home now, Sheehan is a goddess, Rove is an evil genius, Lieberman is the anti-christ, and so on) are gonna get thrashed by it.

Ah well, it's the internet. I can live with it, but the admins are not so sure that it would add anything to our community. I think they'll cave to the idea though, within the next 6 months probably. I'm not sure it will be a good thing though; it seems likely to me that posts will turn into Blog Wars, with everyone trying to outdo each other in order to get a higher score. Reading the thread and finding the gems on your own isn't THAT hard.

[JuniperLea]

15. Why not give it a try?

I'm a big fan of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" but I'm also a fan of "nothing is perfect; everything can be made better".

If you change something and it doesn't work, change it back. Hey, we aren't repugs, we can admit being wrong:)

[LWolf]

17. That's a good reason, imo.

I believe we had this feature for a very brief time right after the big update in June '03; IRC, there were some bugs getting the updates working smoothly, and it was disabled.

[Skinner]

18. That's close but not quite correct.

You are right that this has been discussed by me (Skinner) more than once. But you are not entirely correct about why we aren't doing it.

We aren't doing it because we proposed it to the membership last spring, and the idea was almost universally disliked.

When faced with the possibility of their posts being rated by the collective mind of the DU membership, it turns out that most DUers felt they got a fairer shot with the moderators doing the censoring. I think there is an understanding that different viewpoints will get a fairer shot under our current system.

So, just in case there is any question.... We're unlikely to "cave" to an idea that is almost universally disliked by our own membership.

[iconoclastNYC]

21. I think that sounds like a convient excuse

Many sites have moderated comments and they work fine. I just think they don't want to take the effort.

[MuseRider]

16. OK, no experience here but

I need to ask.

Does this not disrupt the flow of the conversation? To me it is not the importance of one post all the time but the development of ideas that flow in a conversation.

I am totally unaware how this works but I really like the way it is now. I am not opposed to changes but I don't come here to hear a couple of ideas, the development and conversation is very important in itself.

[iconoclastNYC]

23. Its up the the user

You can set a threshold and ignore all bullshit "me too" or trollbait posts. It's really quite elegant. I think fear of the unknown rules the day re: this topic.

[FlaGranny]

25. An outstanding post could very easily

be linked in another thread to bring attention to it. Not having threads in continuity is confusing. I even hate it when a post is deleted for some infraction, because, in almost every case, the reponses thereafter cease to make sense. DU is, by far, the most readable, most easily followed forum I've visited. Actually, I've disliked every other forum's format since being spoiled at DU.

[auntAgonist]

22. not me, I like it just the way it is. nt

[Pithy Cherub]

28. No, just fine as is.

[countingbluecars]

30. I think DU would lose

donors if it adopts such a change.

[Sgent]

31. Slashdot

If anyone isn't familiar with the slashdot system -- its somewhat complex, but does a very good job at ameliorating all the issues I've seen presented so far.

1) Karma -- every user is assigned Karma (good, bad, etc.). Based on Karma, all posts are rated initially -1 to 2. Initially Karma is neutral. Karma can be increased or decreased through various actions of others. (having a post rated up or down, being metamoderated well or badly, etc)

2) Moderation -- everyone gets a chance to moderate, but only occassionally. How often you moderate is semi-random weighted on a combination of your Karma and time spent reading. Only a small selection of users are given Moderation points each day -- and the points expire after 3 days.

3) Metamoderation -- anyone can "moderate" the moderators. Doing so gains you Karma. The server choses 10 posts that have been modded (up or down) and you are asked agree or disagree. You don't know who's moderation you are metamoderating (so its anonymous). Based on how you are metamoderated, your Karma may increase or decrease significantly.

Then any reader can select to show me all the +5 posts, or +4 and above, or +3 and above, etc. The maximum range is 5 to -1. Finally, the posts are shown in a tree structure -- so +5 posts become main subtopics, with +4 following, etc.

[cry baby]

32. Respectfully, I don't like that idea.

There are too many chances for prominent writers to get read, but others would have a hard time. A poster could write an elegant narrative after the subject line is a "me too" and you wouldn't be able to recommend it because your filter would prevent it from showing on your screen. If lots of posters have that filter, that eloquent post might not receive many recommendations, therefore be lost to many. If that is the case, why should that poster bother to write anything at all?