Anti-Intellectualism in the US...

[fujiyama]

This is something that has been bothering me about the US ever since the 2000 election. It's the air of anti intelectualism in this nation. It also probably explains for the shallowness of our culture in general.

The simple fact that Bush was able to "get" (ok I'm not sure how many were stolen) so many votes, proves that many people in this nation simply don't think very much about the world. Issues dealing with global justice, international terrorism...or even say, art and history. Even the simplest things such as geography...

My politics weren't very firm in '00 (or atleast prior to the election, but I still didn't like the republican party then), but I always would have hoped that the person that had the job had an interest in what was going on. Bush*'s ignorance was proven during the debates and in the interview/quiz given by the reporter from Boston.

Some claimed the quiz was "harsh", but India and Pakistan were in the news around that time. Still, I did realize it may be hard to keep track of all the leaders...Yet, what bothered me most about his attitude was ignorance, and pride for it. He was unaplogetic. He still seems the same way, refusing to pick up a newspaper in the morning.

This brings me to the forthcoming election, and I was thinking about this today as I watched Kerry on the college tour today. He seemed extremely intelligent. He had such an amazing resume and life experiences. His honesty about being interested in public service from an early age was refreshing and even inspiring. Similar qualities abound for all our candidates. They want to do something for this nation. I also started wondering if that kind of interest, passion, and ambition (which will be spun negatively), resonates with Americans. I remember how Gore turned people off because "he sounded like the guy that raised his hands first in class"...Really dumb reasons. They thought Bush was a "nicer guy" (ha, I'm sure his policies are really nice for eveyone that voted for him)...

Seriously, are people voting for president as they did for student council or student body president? I don't recall anyone takling those seriously and they ended up being popularity contests...

And why is this? Our geography? Culture? Education system? I honestly thought 9/11 would make people want to learn more about the world but considering 60%+ still believe Saddam had a role in 9/11, I guess I was wrong.

[kiahzero]

1. A few factors

1) Time; it takes time to think about things like this, and if you're busy with things you deal with more often, you're not going to invest the time in it.

2) Not everybody has the mental werewithal to understand nuance.

3) Socialization that being too intelligent is a negative attribute.

[jobendorfer]

5. "being too intelligent is a negative attribute"

In my experience, it's true.

Here is the best example I can give. Once upon a time, I
worked for a engineering director at a major manufacturer.
My boss was one of those rare guys who was solid technically
and a good manager. By education, he had a doctorate in
physics.

When doing business in Japan, he would hand out business
cards with his doctorate marked on them. In Japan, a
high level of educational attainment is respected.

When travelling in the U.S., however, he handed out business
cards with his Ph.D omitted. Even among the ranks of
engineering and business managers in the major corporate
world, having a Ph.D is a negative mark.

I won't get into what happens to teenagers who dare to show
an interest in math or science. It ain't pretty.

J.

[kiahzero]

6. You're speaking to a college kid majoring in CS and Political Science

I'm well aware of what happens to teenagers who dare to show an interest in math or science.

[SharonAnn]

12. And when you're a girl, it's even "not prettier"

And I don't think that has changed that much.

[jobendorfer]

21. agreed

I was simply trying to show that even in the environment
of a major high-technology company -- the kind of business
that lives or dies by the data-gathering, analytical, and
problem-solving skills of all of its employees, from the
CEO down to the manufacturing floor -- you still run into
this intense anti-intellectualism. If anti-intellectualism
can persist there, it's got to be pretty deeply rooted in
the culture.

J.

[Native]

55. Spent my life being accused

of cheating on essay exams because it just wasn't possible for a "girl" to structure her answers using the exact words from the text she'd read to prepare for the test. It was commonly excepted that several of the men in my family had photographic memories, but.... It also doesn't help when you're "cute." If you're unattractive and female, people are more accepting of your intellect. Unfortunately, my daughters are going through the same crap. Everyone assumes that I "work with them," because they couldn't possibly be as smart as they are without a lot of assistance.

[Muddleoftheroad]

31. There is a reason for this

In America, people respect work accomplishments, not academic research. If he had worked in his field and made a name for himself that way, Americans would respect it. However, Americans are suspicious of those who get lots of schooling and don't go out into the working world.

[spooky3]

40. But I think you are proving the original poster's point.

They ought to respect both, if both are done well. It suggests that they do not understand or care to understand how academic research is done or why it is valuable, which again points to the anti-intellectualism. One doesn't expect a mechanic to have published academic research in order to respect him or her as a mechanic. One shouldn't expect an academic researcher to be a mechanic in order to respect him or her either.

[Muddleoftheroad]

43. I am simply explaining

America is a culture that is very focused on actual results, not theory. The ideal is a combination of both. Theory without practical experience or application is just that, theory. Day-to-day work needs the help valuable R&D can provide.

[spooky3]

48. Empirical research produces results.

Academic research is not simply developing theory, though that is invaluable. Without it, you would not have any idea why certain foods would make you fat or healthy, why a bridge might fall or stand, how children learn, etc. Running "hit-or-miss" experiments is a grand waste of time.

Researchers in many fields use the scientific method to test theories, often competing theories. Applied research requires pure research to get a start. That is what an intellectual approach teaches one.

Einstein was a pure researcher. So was B. F. Skinner. They had a profound impact on later work.

[Muddleoftheroad]

52. They are unique

Some intellects are so great that they need little real life experience. Most people are not Einstein. As a result, they need some grounding in their field of endeavor, even if it is only a couple years.

I am all for research, but it needs to be tempered with experience for maximum benefit.

[spooky3]

62. We can agree to disagree on this one.

[DrWeird]

77. I've done heavy labor and I've worked for a PhD.

Working for the PhD is a lot harder than working in any factory.

[cheapbeemr]

81. I don't think the general attitude is that we respect accomplishment.....

In this country, what's 'respected' is money. Which is why the country's run by swindlers of every stripe.

[Selwynn]

67. It IS work.

There's nothign that isn't hard work about the academic life, and it is full of accomplishments every bit as relevant (if not more so) than anything done in the "working world."

[Muddleoftheroad]

70. Again, people respect products not research

Everything is work, including this debate. But work in the for-profit, non-tenured world is a hell of a lot different and, in the working world it is respected more than academia. Perhaps the reality that it is easy to be fired or maybe just the pressure of deadlines and appealing to what the public wants, not necessarily what you want to work on.

Research is important and needs to go hand-in-hand with work out in the world, but there are many reasons why business success is valued more than academic success.

[kiahzero]

75. Right...

:eyes:

Research is important and needs to go hand-in-hand with work out in the world, but there are many reasons why business success is valued more than academic success.

There's one reason, generally, and that's that people are ridiculously shortsighted. Think about theoretical math for a moment. It was dismissed as completely useless for about as long as it's been studied. Guess what? All those fun encryption schemes that make security on the Internet possible are all based off of theoretical math; many of them were based off of properties of math that we've known for ages.

[Muddleoftheroad]

78. And all of those are practical applications

And people pay for practical applications of theory. Those have value and day-to-day results.

I don't claim to be a crypto expert, but I recall correctly from stuff on the History Channel, some of the theoretical work in that field was done by folks who got a lot of chance to work in the field.

Either way, working together still seems best to moi.

[Selwynn]

85. Business "success"

This "ideology" part of what is driving society into the ground.

There are things more important in life than money. In fact, I'd say money is probably at the bottom of the list.

It's all about how you define "suceess." If you define it as profit and power, I think there's another party out there that agrees with you. :)

[Muddleoftheroad]

114. Success

Well, let's see. Business success creates a viable product that serves a public need or desire. It improves the economy. It creates jobs. It pays salaries. It pays healthcare. It takes care of homes and families. It contributes to the tax base to fund roads and schools and social programs.

Yeah, that's all bad.

[Selwynn]

84. No, YOU respect products, not research..

You don't speak for "the people"

Unless you want to show me numbers, otherwise I'm not interested in hearing false representation of the masses.

Also, I find it humorous that you really don't know how to describe "academic" success. You think people just sit around "researching?"

[Muddleoftheroad]

91. Putting words into my mouth

Is not the way toward a healthy debate.

I respect both research and products. But I don't respect some research that seems ridiculous. In the marketplace, products must be justified by whether they can make a profit. That standard in not used in research.

As for other forms of academic success, we haven't even touched on teaching here, so why start. Frankly, in a research university, it's usually not that important anyhow.

As for speaking for the people, the marketplace speaks for me.

[spooky3]

121. "Criticize things you don't know about"

Ever hear Steve Martin's little song?

http://www.stevemartin.com/albums/grandmothers_song.php

Do you have data to support what you are saying? Or, using your standard of valuing anecdotes over controlled empirical research, are you a faculty member who has succeeded at research and teaching (and service)? You are simply parroting a stereotype that is inconsistent with reality.

Faculty are not rewarded for doing simply what they want to do at top research universities. They must do research that meets rigorous standards and in many areas, research that grantors are willing to support. They must do an excellent job in the classroom as teaching is a critical component of most tenure (and merit pay) processes. Many faculty work much longer hours than their compatriots in other industries, who are off watching movies and having fun while professors remain in their offices or labs until well past 9 PM.

Finally, if you want to use a "market standard", then why are the best ranked schools according to the mass magazines the top research universities? Why do people pay $25000 or more in tuition alone to attend many of them? Why do students come from all over the world to US research universities (and many more want to but can't get in)?

The more you post, the more you are making the original poster's main point.

[izzie]

28. Time thing is interesting.

Kids do not have the time either. They donot seem to make up play or just lay around looking at the grass.Some one or something does it all for them.With all the pills they are now taken I do not think they learn to control them selfs either, The pills are doing it.

[alexwcovington]

2. Yes it is

It sucks.

[Hieronymus]

3. The republicans

have made a concerted effort to put down intellectualism. It appeals to most of their poorer, uneducated followers, who are suspicious of smart people, they voted for Shrub, didn't they? Also by keeping them dumbed down they believe whatever propaganda and spin they are fed.
I think it's why they discourage public education, as well.:eyes:

[SharonAnn]

17. Yes, one of the memes in 2000 was that Gore was too smart

Just think, too smart to be president. How could anyone think that it was a job that didn't require the absolutely smartest person that you could find?

We had a letter to the editor in June of 2002 here in Knoxville. It said:

"Where I grew up in Yankee country, people generally regarded the South as a region uniquely marked by demagoguery, anti-intellectualism and deep, deep ignorance. Judging by the antics of the state Legislature over the past three years, I'd say we got it just about right."

----------------

But I think it's the entire country now, not just the South.

[Native]

46. And it is working very well,

don't you think?

[zonmoy]

105. anti intellectuallism

actually public education as envisioned by the robber barons that set it up was designed to create unthinking drones. What the republicans want are unthinking drones that are brainwashed into supporting them by religion.

[alarimer]

113. yes

I think the problem is the lack of critical thinking skills being taught at any level. The focus is often on "what" to think (stuff that will let you pass a standardized test) not "how" to think. Plus if people learn to think critically, they no longer take things at face value. They begin question, to probe and the whole house of cards comes tumbling down.l

[Native]

120. Put a physician from the 1800's into

an emergency room of today, and he/she would be a serious liability. Put a teacher from the 1800's into a classroom of today, and they'd be able to pick right up from where they left off.

[Archae]

4. It's nothing new.

50 years ago Isaac Asimov wrote an essay called "The Cult Of Ignorance," where "eggheads" were derided as absent-minded, how women couldn't be happy until they took their glasses off, acted dumb and "found ture love," etc.

Just go to nearly any High School or college.

Are the "big guys on campus" those who make the Dean's list, and get good grades?

Nope.

It's the near-brain dead idiots on their sports teams.

[baby_bear]

9. Archae, I remember you mentioning this over a year ago

Do you have a link (or is there even one?) to the Asimov essay you refer to? I'd like to read it. I did a quick google and got lots of mentions of it, but no link (at least not the first couple pages).

It must have made a big impression on you.

thanks
s_m

[JHB]

35. A little lighter than "Cult of Ignorance", but on a similar theme...

"Mr. Spock is Dreamy", by Azimov in 1967:

A revolution of incalculable importance may be sweeping America, thanks to television. And thanks particularly STAR TREK, which, in its noble and successful effort to present good science fiction to the American public, has also presented everyone with an astonishing revelation.

I was put onto the matter by my blonde, blue-eyed, and beautiful daughter, who is just turning twelve and who, in all the practical matters that count, is more clear-sighted than I.

It happened one evening when we were watching STAR TREK together and holding our breath while Captain Kirk and Mr. Spock faced a menace of overwhelming proportions. Captain Kirk (for those, if any, who are not STAR TREK fans) is a capable hero and a full-blooded human. Mr. Spock is half-alien and is a creature of pure reason and no emotion. Naturally Captain Kirk responded to every danger with an appropriate twist of his handsome and expressive face. Spock, however, kept his long, serene face unmoved. Not for an instant did he allow emotion to dim the thoughtful gleam of his eye; not for a split second did he allow that long face to grow shorter.

And my daughter said, “I think Mr. Spock is dreamy!”
---- more-----
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/2777/misc/mr_spock.html

[Archae]

47. No I don't.

I read it in a book decades ago, and yes, it did make an impression on me because it sums up my own frustration with the "celebration of the stupid" as I call it.

[LeahMira]

57. Sad, but true...

50 years ago Isaac Asimov wrote an essay called "The Cult Of Ignorance," where "eggheads" were derided as absent-minded...


I recall my staunchly Republican mother spitting out the word "intelligensia" as if it were a curse back in the 1950s. That was when the "communists in the State Department" were betraying the country, according to McCarthy.

Later on, she sacrificed a lot to send me to college in the 1960s, but she did that in order for me to become either a teacher or a nurse. Of course there were required courses also (even back then!) like Intro to Philosophy. When I came home talking about what I had learned in those courses she insisted that she hadn't sent me to college to become a member of the "intelligensia."

I think that back in the 1950s intelligence was associated with communism in some way. Maybe that was because people were discussing Marxist theory and using terminology that was unfamiliar to the man on the street, or maybe it was because communism was associated with atheism and the more intelligent a person became the more chance they would become atheist. I don't know... just my impressions at the time.

Still, it seems to me that distrust of intelligence still is associated with radical leftists. People in general apparently believe that as long as something works, no matter how sluggishly or unsatisfactorily, it shouldn't be "fixed." Change is threatening... no one can be sure it will work any better and it could be worse. The devil you know well seems less "subversive" than the devil you don't know.

I believe the Declaration of Independence even refers to this when it says that people are reluctant to overthrow a king unless the list of grievances is seriously long... which is probably why those intelligent founders were able to convince the people back then that a revolution was in order.

[RuB]

7. 2 reasons I can think of:

The media not doing its constitutional duty.
The United States has become a service based economy which doesn't require literate people, just affable people.

Gosh, isn't Bushie the most affable person you ever met in your life. Gosh, everybody says so. OK WHO'S GOT THE HURL BAG?

[magidon]

16. Have you had any good customer service lately?

The United States has become a service based economy which doesn't require literate people, just affable people.

Seventy-five percent of my CS interactions these days are mediocre to negative. At best, the customer service workers are benignly indifferent. At worst, they're outright hostile. Nor are very many of them knowledgeable enough in their field to complete an interaction without making a mistake.

Wherever these affable people are, they're not in CS. Of course, if I was in CS making minimum wage, I wouldn't be too happy either.

[RuB]

18. I think you nailed it: minimum wage.

And our service related economy started in the 80's during the Reagan term and has been going downhill ever since. What worries me is this high unemployment and so many children in high schools dropping out with absolutely no skills and no interest in taking Burger King jobs. Trouble looms for the future especially if pResident Bushie is elected to another term. Of course the corporate media is not going to do their constitutional duty. They've had 3+ years to hone their propaganda skills.

[LibDemAlways]

8. In this country the intelligent, inquisitive kids

are taunted as geeks, nerds, and worse -- so the anti-intellectualism you speak of starts early. I have witnessed it firsthand. My father-in-law never finished college and never encouraged his children to go. It took my husband a long time to earn a degree at night after work, but he finally succeeded. While my dad was heaping on the praise, his own dad remained silent -- never even congratulated him. Meantime he couldn't say enough about his two daughters who skipped college and managed to make a good living nonetheless. Somehow in his mind wanting a college education meant that you thought you were better or smarter than everybody else.

I think the fact that people would vote for the chimp or Arnold -- unqualified boobs, basically -- says that Americans don't value brainpower and aren't looking for it in their leaders. A very sad state of affairs.

[Wapsie B]

10. My mother

has a cousin she went to school with through high school. She told me about how he could've had good enough grades to go to medical school but that he dumbed himself down and got average grades. This was so he wouldn't get picked on at school for being a brainy kid; for being different than the rest. This was in the 30's and 40's. It's so much easier to go along to get along in this society; to blend in. And god help you, don't EVER be "different."

[Lydia Leftcoast]

51. I had a high school friend who was capable of making straight A's

but who in ninth grade suddenly turned into a C student.

She advised me to do the same, saying that if I just weren't such a bookworm, I could get any boy I wanted.

I thought that was crazy and told her so. I didn't want any boys who didn't want me the way I was. Frankly, I thought that the boys that everyone else lusted after were dull and crude, and I preferred the junior mad scientist types.

Fortunately for my friend, her parents raised hell with her and told that she definitely wouldn't have any social life of any sort until she got her grades back up to the level she was capable of.

For the most part, I found that being smart in high school was just one step on the social scale above having a pungent unwashed body odor.

The mass media don't help. Even back in the 1950s and 1960s, the message in TV comedies and dramas was that intellectualism was something that had to be "fixed" so that the person could be normal. To the extent that outright nerds tend not to have a lot of friends, there is some truth in that. But it made me angry to see socially well-adjusted students who felt that they had to hide their interest in reading and other intellectual matters, or at least join a sports team or the cheerleading squad, not because they were interested, but to avoid social ostracism.

[not systems]

11. The Gump Factor.

People believe they are entitled to go through life rich, dumb and happy.

Anything else is an afront to the natural order of things.

Most people just don't like thinking.

When someone appeals to reason and thought it is taken
as an insult to the cherished right to ignorance.

I think that the long economic boom and the wealth
that most people have combined with indoctrination
in schools that raises the Jockocracy on a pedestal
have dulled the mind of the masses.

Only appeals base emotions like fear, greed, and
hate have wide spread effect.

By the way I think Homer Simpson is a icon of this situation.

[maggrwaggr]

15. Yeah, the media has taken this as the new prototypical male

Not just Homer Simpson, but the guy on Married with Children, the Jim Belushi character on his show ... it goes on and on

And every fat balding doofus on every TV commercial who's a total jackass whose crafty wife saves his ass over and over ...

It's really pathetic. As a man, I'm really insulted by it.

[fujiyama]

19. Yeah, Homer embodies...

quite a bit of American culture. He's ignorant, not interested in learning, but at the same time isn't such a bad guy himself (he still cares for his family, etc). Similar to how a lot of Americans behave. Actually I'd say that's why I like the Simpsons so much. The parody of American society is great.

I'm not sure if you watch the Simpsons, but I am reminded of the episode with Fred Grimes. Those who watch the Simspons will know what I mean.

[hiphopnation]

90. That episode

basically sums up the point of your post, seems to me.

To have little or no intellectual curiosity but care for your family, root for you hometown team, go to work everyday, etc., is part of the essence of being American. One cannot argue with wanting to provide for family and earn a decent wage, but, in America, there must be a more careful balance struck between it and a social acceptance for learning, awareness, and thoughtful intellectual exchange. I don't think that they are diametrically opposed, IMHO.

IMHO, what started as a biting satire on the 'Simpsons' quickly snowballed into a cultural icon, and we should wonder why that is. It is obvious that Groening & Co. hold up Homer to exemplify what is wrong with being gleefully ignorant. But it's still funny, which is the genius of it.

Thanks for the great post. :hi:

[fujiyama]

112. You're right...

Those qualities you mentioned are in few ways opposed to intellectualism. There is nothing about intellectualism (and I take a very loose definition of the word) that is opposed to caring for your family, drinkin' beers with your buddies on a sunday afternoon watching a football game, or working on your car in a garage (hell I think it'd be fun to work on a car...but I honestly wouldn't know where to get started).

I just think that people should also take a little time to question what they're being told (or fed). The constant propganda spewed forth on TV is nauseating. A bit of skeptisism would do people a lot of good.

I would even say that intellecualism need not be isolated to academics. It's just a matter of attitude. One need not a college degree. They just need an open mind and a curiosity. I even believe that there are such people as conservative intellectuals. Granted they are very rare and are usually dead wrong, but they do pose some intruiging questions, while laying out arguments in a logical fashion. Granted that's extremely rare and much of the conservative political idealogy is charecterized today by hypocrisy and shrillness the likes of Ann Coulter.

Unfortunately this atmosphere where reason is discouraged has had devastating consequences on everything from art, to culture, to education, to our political discourse.

[maggrwaggr]

13. it goes back to the redneck hero icon in America

You know, the frontiersmen, the cowboys, the gunfighters, the detectives ......

All of these guys were basically semi-literate (if at all), uneducated violence-loving vengeful "heroes".

It's deeply ingrained in our culture.

Probably goes back to the anti-British sentiment from the very founding of our country.

It's godawful and the republicans have managed to capitalize on it, which is ... well it's ironic. They must be laughing their asses off over the fact that joe-sixpack thinks the republicans are on THEIR side.

You realize it's the same mentality as making sure the slaves couldn't read.

[izzie]

29. I do genealogy and find something interesting in this subject.

The early Church people could read as they had to read the Bible but as we got away from that they did not learn to read and write, then the school system came in and the men seem to be the first to learn then the women.You also have a lack of info in that stop of church being the center of their world.I am not saying church people are opened minded but it has been an interesting find, Could it have just been my family? I feel not, as we were sort of middle of road people.We have always been people who worked hard and some have been to college and some not.The family have all ALL been Rep until me..... and my sister.

[rman]

14. it's a symptom of fascism / far-RW

The leaders appeal to people's emotions rather then rationality. that's why they get away with the lies. Most importantly, fear of a common enemy (manufatured or not) which fascism needs to unite the people in order to have them follow the leader.
Fortunately this will only work untill inevitably the people see that the leader is in fact wearing no clothes.

[FlemingsGhost]

20. One of your best posts, fujiyama.

I shoudn't do it, but I'm going to make a broad, sweeping generalization anyway:

Americans are fools. They are insecure, frightened sheep who enthusiastically embrace their collective ignorance. Most do not possess any real intellectual curiosity or genuine introspective self-analysis aside from what convenience will best suit their immediate, selfish desires. They anxiously await the next cultural "fad" in order to define their lives and aren't interested in anything beyond their own provincial world view.

To admit that our governmental/cultural/scio-economic systems are seriously flawed is to admit that we do not occupy the moral highground that has been hammered into our heads from day one. Ultimately, pride will be the downfall of this nation, and it is most deserved.

Our fall will be epic...

(on edit: typo)

[rudeboy666]

22. ok

"Americans are fools. They are insecure, frightened sheep who enthusiastically embrace their collective ignorance. Most do not possess any real intellectual curiosity or genuine introspective self-analysis aside from what convenience will best suit their immediate, selfish desires. They anxiously await the next cultural "fad" in order to define their lives and aren't interested in anything beyond their own provincial world view."

And ya all wonder why they say that liberals are elitist!

As some have hinted above, the strain of anti-intellectualism has been around since the founding of America(in various forms, of course).

But for all of our 'stupidity' we sure as hell created a great country!

[Muesli]

23. Ahhh, yes

The quaint notion that Americans created their own country.

I daresay that "stupidity" is a prime requisite for a nation to BECOME great. How else can a ruling elite use their sheep for war and labour? And I admit freely that your country is great in both military and economic aspect.

But seriously, I never met many Americans, but, except for one, they didn't seem any stupider than me. And secondly, is it so great to be intelligent? Is it any better than being kind-hearted or something like that?

[fujiyama]

24. I'm not disputing it's a great country...

I just find it odd that the nation founded by such amazing minds as Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson has been degraded to what it is now. By most accounts the founders of this nation were very well educated and well read in history, economics, and at least in the case of the two I mentioned, the sciences as well.

And by no means would I consider myself elitest. I have attended public schools and a public university. My grades weren't spectacular, and I'm not looking down on anyone (well maybe those that believe ignorance is a virtue).

I myself could have guessed the causes of anti intellectualism. What bothers me is why people would simply put blind trust in someone that had very little knowledge or interest in what that person will be doing, especially when that job is of such importance to the nation and the entire world. It's almost as though some people voted for Bush* because he didn't seem like he wanted the job very much. I just find that strange.

Hell, this isn't even specific for those that are less educated. I have a friend (non fundie, middle of the road Catholic, studying the sciences), that voted for Bush inspite of me explaining to her repeatedly, the negative impact his policies would have on everyday people.

Granted she never actually told me outright (and I never bothered asking), but what someone else told me, was that she was turned off by Gore's meanness. I honestly don't understand how so many people could vote based on such superficial qualities.

I understand that in the US there are various economic factors at work as well. People have less vacation time, and work much longer hours than say, those in Europe. This allows people less time for reading (I'm talking history, non polarized nonfiction -- not Mann Coulter junk), travelling, etc...Even inspite of that I really wonder if many would be doing that.

I know, it probably goes back to the frontier mentality...Still, it's unfortunate...The US has so much power, yet its citizens are so unaware of how it impacts other nations.

I would say our provincial education system, which teaches little of world history (I myself don't remember having a single world history course in HS), and does a poor job teaching our own history is partly to blame for this mentality.

Either way, the nation has been very shallow and I agree with a previous poster, that simple emotions such as fear and greed are what moves people now.

[Karenina]

44. FABULOUS POST!

Americans' broad-based denial and ignorance of what the nation has become is horrifying! It's not just unfortunate. It is a direct threat to sustaining life on this planet.

[spooky3]

45. I think you make some very good points.

People in the US work long hours and no longer have someone at home to run the household, plan parties, do the errands, etc. This greatly reduces their time for anything other than collapsing in exhaustion, physically and mentally.

[FlemingsGhost]

25. If it pleases the court, I give you "exhibit A"

"But for all of our 'stupidity' we sure as hell created a great country!"

Whether you intended to or not, you illustrate my point perfectly. Thanks for your help...

[iangb]

26. We have the same phenomonon.....

......here in Aus.

People who criticise (or even question) the policies of our Liberal Party (RW conservative) Government are automatically labelled as 'intellectual elitists'......and of course arguing the logic of that merely reinforces people's views.

[Iverson]

27. always been rampant in the US

I would argue that precious few nations value thoughtfulness and reflection, although in the US it is particularly bad now.

To me, it became noticeably worse around 1980, when "there you go again" was hailed as a masterstroke of debate. Reagan made being an idiot respectable by being President, and we hadn't seen that since before the era of mass communications.

Puritanism, the Monroe Doctrine, slavery, 19th Century rugged individualism, post WWII exceptionalism: all these things contributed to our national sense of identity. None have taken us in the direction of intellectualism.

"And why is this? Our geography? Culture? Education system? I honestly thought 9/11 would make people want to learn more about the world but considering 60%+ still believe Saddam had a role in 9/11, I guess I was wrong."

No, you've been overwhelmed with the mainstream media image. Some people did and do want to learn more about the world, but they just do not get attention. Cultural anti-intellectualism is a viscious circle, eh?

[fujiyama]

110. I agree with this statement:

"I would argue that precious few nations value thoughtfulness and reflection, although in the US it is particularly bad now. "

That's very true and this is an especially large problem in many nations where the political and intellectual discourse is mandated and determined by those in power, be they religious or political figures.

Unfortunately I think willful ignorance is much more prevelent in the US than other major infustrialized nations (and even many developing nations). This is very unfortunate, that too considering the power the US has, and the impact these decisions have on so many people.

[Pompitous_Of_Love]

30. You don't have to be an intellectual to realize how bad the GOP is

You simply need to be possessed of the ability to reason and to think for yourself. It's called common sense and when fused with a skepticism born of experience -- what we call street smarts -- no con man can beat it. This cuts across all class and education lines. We're all idiots to one degree or another, but those of us who recognize that we are can usually stay one or two steps ahead of the snake oil salesmen. There is a great deal to be said for intellectual humility, since it forces us to think through things. The older I get, the more aware I am of what I don't know.

[Mikimouse]

32. "In America, there are many readers, but few thinkers"

Alexis de Tocqueville- Democracy in America (Volume II; 1837).

[info being]

93. I disagree.

True independent thinkers are ignored because they don't sound like the predominent majority. There are plenty of "followers", but they are following only things that seem safe and "normal".

[Mikimouse]

118. Tocqueville's statement was based on his observation

that Americans of his time exhibited an overwhelming tendency to read the 'comic books' of the era (Tales of the Wild West and such), but avoided reading pithier literature because they lacked patience and curiosity. Sound familiar?

[CMT]

33. it's the regular guy effect

Many guys would rather sit down and have a beer with Bush than with Gore. After four years of this and many of those guys losing their jobs especially if they were in manufacturing--they might want to do something else to Bush by now.

I'm a guy but I like to talk to someone who knows what they are talking about and so I would have little use for someone like Bush.

[regularguy]

72. Hey I'm a regular guy (actually I just play one on DU),

and I'd rather have Al Gore hit me with a 2X4 than have a beer with that Dubya. :)

[bleedingheart]

34. This is one of the saddest things about America...the lack of pride

in education and the stigma of geekdom or being too smart.

What if all our citizens were to excel and use their intelligence...imagine how wonderful that would be.

[Robb]

36. I've said this before

...And I'll say it again, in case there are new ears around: this is an education problem. We've been stuck with this educational model for a society of factories, where curiousity is discouraged, and have done little to update it except to degrade the social status of teachers.

This is a forty year old problem, and will take another forty years to fix it if we start right now. Alan Jackson don't know the "difference in Iraq and Iran", and we think that's cool, because hell, we don't either, and look at the size of his tour bus.

We've fostered a pride in ignorance that makes us, indeed, a nation of fools -- and guess what: this is why a moron got into the White House, this is why no one cares about WMD, this is why we just dismiss the I/P issue with a "let 'em bomb each other till it's over" attitude, and this is why no one is curious about any of the stories in the news and this is why people say things like "it's just politics"....

End rant. :)

[LeahMira]

65. A pity...

We've fostered a pride in ignorance that makes us, indeed, a nation of fools --

There is a difference between providing educational opportunity to everyone including the poorest among us and the idea that the least educated is somehow the best.

America prides itself on the fact that in spite of lowly origins anyone can advance to become President of the United States. Somehow, that idea has been perverted in some minds so that they believe that only a person without much formal education (or one whose formal education has had little impact) can be a decent President.

[jenm]

71. We can think as long as it's about the right things

Even those individuals who choose a path of higher education can expect to encounter obstacles by those who benefit from the mass dumbing down. It's couched in terms of intellectual freedom and diversity of opinion, but it's nothing more than a political jerk to the right.

http://www.rmpn.org/weblog/archives/permalink/000105.cfm

[info being]

94. It's all about what "the system" rewards

If ignorance is rewarded people will continue to be ignorant.

[fujiyama]

111. ...

[Native]

50. And as soon as funding gets tight

what's the first thing they cut in schools? Gifted education. Do they ever take away from the funding allocated to the other end of the "exceptional ed" spectrum?

[kiahzero]

53. To be fair

Speaking as someone who was in the G/T program when there was one, the gifted kids are going to hurt a lot less from not having gifted education than the disabled kids are.

[Native]

58. Yes, that is true . . .

they just wind up in our prison systems. What are the latest stats on inmates with genius I.Q.'s?

[Brewman_Jax]

37. I saw a live example of "preferred ignorance"

Playing trivia a couple of weeks ago, one of the early questions (the game did not hinge on answering this correctly) was "What was the name of the Prime Minister of Congo assassinated in 1961?" The table next to us complained, "Why don't you ask an American question?" I almost said out loud, "Why? You guys probably can't answer that, either." If it wasn't in the sports page, I doubt that they'd know.

One of the guys I know who voted for Bush* because "he's a nice guy." I replied, "that's fine, we can go drink beer with GW*, but don't you want someone who's smart to be President?" To that, he said, "yeah, I know that Gore is much smarter than Bush*, but Bush* is cooler."

I had to come up with a term for it,"preferred ignorance." Willful ignorance, though accurate, implies working to stay that way. I've seen too many lazy people to see that being/staying ignorant actually takes no work at all. Blame it on work, family, economy, etc., but it says simply, "I'm ignorant, and I don't care."

As for the dittoheads, that's "willful ignorance," 'cause they actually work at it.

[spooky3]

63. LOL!

[htuttle]

107. Actually, that WAS an 'American Question'

Patrice Lumumba was assassinated by our own CIA.

[ProfessorGAC]

38. One Point On The "Quiz"

What went unreported, let alone attacked, was the simple LOGIC flaw in Bush's response. He wanted to know if the reporter knew the answer.

Well, only a dumbass would have asked that question as a reply to the reporter's query. Why?

First, the reporter must have known the answers. Otherwise, how would he know if Bush was right?

Secondly, the reporter was looking down at a pad of paper with his questions. There is a VERY good probability that the answers were written down right in front of the guy's nose.

So, for Bush to petulantly respond with "Do you?" is a significant sign of his stupidity. Of course the other guy knew the answers, Georgie, you dumb ass!
The Professor

[Tracer]

39. Even Among "intellectuals" You Can Be Shocked.

All of my family has either college or advanced degrees. Recently, I visited a relative who has a PhD in Chemistry. During a chat, the subject of the Patriot Act came up. This woman HAD NEVER HEARD OF IT!!!!!!!!!!

This seemed impossible on the face of it Ñ since the home was full of books and newspapers.

Are people so narrowly focused on their career/family/social life that they can't spend a few minutes a day informing themselves of government policy?

[Native]

60. Yup!

I see it all the time.

[ewagner]

41. I remember hearing a Limbaugh tag line

That went something like, "you don't have to think, just absorb..."

Life is soooo much easier if you don't have to do any thinking for yourself and that's what the repubs are telling people.

Don't think about what dubya is doing, just trust him.

Don't think about the fact that the economy is in the tank, Dubya says it's going to be all right.

Faux news says we'll give you everything you need to know in a 15 second soundbite.

The anti-intellectual movement has been going on since Reagan and the Bushies have raised the movement to an art form........

[spooky3]

42. Is it any worse in the US than elsewhere?

I don't mean that as a rhetorical question; I really wonder about it.

I suspect that there is some variation by culture, but that the US is in the middle of the pack rather than at the top or bottom. But I don't have any data on this.

[tlcandie]

56. Well, let's look at South American,...the NOW hot spot of radical reform

It seems the natives who have been kept in ignorance and poor wages, if any, are revolting. I think it would be safe to generalize that most do not have computers, internet, telephones, books, educations, etc.

How did they get to where they allowed these US backed leaders who want nothing more than the exploitation of their resources or the other extremeists who wanted drug traffiking and/or mafia style government?

My head is hurting, so my brain isn't functioning too well atm, apologies.

Is it the disconnect that it had nothing to do with them ultimately? That it was far removed from their every day lives? That they could allow whatever THAT was to go on while they went about their daily lives thinking never in a million years it would affect them?

How did they come around to this way of thinking?

I'm thinking disconnect...not seeing that EVERYTHING and EVERYONE is linked and that there is a domino effect.

Dunno...can't do more..head hurts too much. Maybe someone else can expound upon this. :shrug:

EDITED for:
The disconnect is then connected via...
education
liberal media

I'm sure someone can do this better and more fluidly with better reasoning. Thanks..
???

[Art_from_Ark]

74. As one who has taught in Japan

it is my opinion that generally speaking, Japanese are much more curious about the outside world than the average American. And they are more likely to be embarassed by having a :dunce: as a leader.

[info being]

95. Yes

In Slovakia people are generally more curious and well-informed...and they aren't afraid to express their opinions. That's been my experience.

Americans are so cautious and scared of expressing original or perhaps unconventional opinions and, thus, any curiosity outside of the conventional is naturally stiffled.

[LibertyorDeath]

108. spooky3 .......Where to begin...............

[speckledgator]

49. Interesting thread

I don't agree with all of it, but it sure gives me something to think about! I was a history major in college (not "great men and great wars" history, but social history). I have many Canadian friends, and recently married a Canadian citizen. I find it fascinating the differences in how our two very similar cultures developed, and went down different roads. Any ideas?
Oh, and my wife has little knowledge of her own history. However an elderly friend who retired from GM and has little formal education, knows more about American history than most Americans. Thanks once again, DUer's for providing much needed brain food!

[salin]

54. In absense of an "answer" - or in times of great uncertainty

I think it is human nature to try to grasp for something simple and concrete for a)explanation and b) security to move through the period.

This accounts for early mythology in various cultures that attempted to explain natural phenomenon.

I think that when the top gave a simple answer rather than pushing a harder to conceive of/undestand answer - many people felt 'more safe'. Pushing around the edges of that answer though would lead to more questions, so taking it whole - and the actions that followed it - and pushing OUT other more complex (and scary) explanations was a gutlevel human nature reaction.

With a different model of leadership at the top - the pattern would probably have been different. FDR brought people INTO the effort, sacrfice... don't fear but fear... we are in this together. Bush says... its all them... lets gitem (even if its a different 'em then those responsible as is the case in Iraq)... and hey... do your part and go shop!

[KansDem]

59. "I'm ignorant and proud of it!"

...has been the mantra of the voters since the 1994 mid-term elections. Sure, Whistleass embodies this mindset, but that seems to be what a substantial minority of voters want.

Just yesterday on NPR, Cokie Roberts was bashing Howard Dean, comparing his popularity with George McGovern in 1972. She said Dean, like McGovern, started out popular, appeared before enthusiastic crowds, appealed to "intelligent voters," and lost by a landslide.

Then she and the NPR host went on to belittle the Democrats, suggesting the 2004 election was Chimpy's to loose.

(I thought it strange that Cokie, by comparing Dean to McGovern, didn't carry the comparison through to Nixon and Bush. To do so I suppose would be to suggest that Chimpy was due for an investigation for impeachable offense and subsequent resignation).

[Brian Sweat]

61. There is a joke among computer programmers

that if you want to get a girl to go out with you, tell her you are a garbage man or something like that. Anything but a programmer.


There is a deep anti-intellectual bias in this country and it will be our down fall. The only thing keeping this country going is immigrants from countries that value education.

[info being]

96. Very true

I work in the knowledge-intensive field of software and I can tell you that it certainly isn't the Americans doing the most important work.

[Snow]

104. Not just there - a former colleague, woman with a PhD, fended off

unwanted attentions while plane travelling by carrying, and reading, the latest issus of "Scientific American". She said it seemed as if people were actually afraid to speak with her.

[kentuck]

64. Not only "anti-intellectualism" but "pro-ignorance"....

There are those that think ignorance should be rewarded...

[Selwynn]

66. People vote for Bush because it makes them feel better about themselves

I agree with your observation of anti-intellectualism; it is also detachment, apathy, and rampant self-obession. This culture breeds people who care about themselves and their immediate needs only, and can't be bothered to care (or be informed) about anything else.

Bush makes people like that feel better about being people like that. He is "one of us." He is "a man of the people." It comforts them, and reminds them that, hey its ok not to be informed.

People always have a harder time with really smart sophisticated candidates because they feel threated by them. As funny as this sounds, most people don't want someone smarter than them to lead - they want someone who makes them feel better about being stupid. :) This is why the chummy personable candidates nearly always win over the geniouses with an amazing policy platform.

[info being]

97. Same reason they watch talk shows and reality TV

...manufactured self-esteem.

[OKNancy]

68. My father talked about this all his life

I don't think it's a new thing. I remember my dad talking about how people hated Adali Stevenson and sneeringly called him an egghead. As a young child I asked him to explain what an egghead was. THat lead to a rant about anti-intellectualism in the US.

[Bandit]

69. And your Avatar is a good reason why America is anti-intellectual

The brain-washing is a very real process and the Simpsons is a very good example of it. Dumbing down of America is a Planned event. The Simpsons is only one of many cartoon shows designed for adults. Go Figure.

[kiahzero]

73. Um... no

Your implication depends on your unspoken axiom that animation is inherantly childish. It seems apparent that you've never watched an episode of the Simpsons critically, as there is often a significant amount of social satire. The same applies to South Park, though it tends to be a lot more obvious.

[Bandit]

79. If you think the Simpsons is for the intellectual crowd???

It may have satire but it sure isn't designed for an intellectual. It is designed for the blue collar beer drinker that thinks there is something worthwhile in a cartoon show for adults. It is low brow entertainment nothing else.

[0rganism]

82. Would you say the same about "Life In Hell"?

Life In Hell is the cartoon strip Matt Groening wrote for years prior to doing Simpsons shorts for the Tracy Ulman show. Low brow?

After leaving the Simpsons, Groening went on to do Futurama, another satire cartoon "designed for adults". Low brow?

I'm fascinated that you think adult cartoons are intrinsically worthless. They have everything regular TV shows have, except the actors are voice-only, and the plots can be a helluva lot more open. The satire can be far more intense and fast paced than anything I've seen on live TV.

Naturally, one could argue that ALL television is designed as a dumbing-down device, and cartoons would be no exception. However, you'd have to address content to do so. Thus far, you haven't.

[Muddleoftheroad]

83. You don't watch TV much, do you?

The Simpsons is one of the most intelligent and well-written satirical shows ever on TV. It satirizes everything -- right or left. Pop culture, culture, parenting, growing up, blowhard politicians, crime, work, etc. It even satirizes TV.

By criticizing something that is sufficiently high-brow to rate praise and coverage on Bravo, you kind of shoot your argument in the foot. As Homer would say, "D'Oh!"

[Bandit]

102. As Homer would say D'oh

Yes you made my point well. If Simpsons is most intelligent show on TV we are definitely in sad sad shape as a nation. You can praise the show all you wish but the proof is in the pudding. It is demonstrated quite well in these few posts. I concede it is very entertaining but that is the extent to my praise. It certainly is no "To Kill a Mockingbird"

[Muddleoftheroad]

115. Why?

Do you dislike animation? Do you dislike the actors and actresses who use their skill to act out numerous roles? Perhaps you don't like the writing which is among the best in Hollywood of this or any year.

Sure, Mockingbird is a great movie, but that is rare. Even that, while a thought-provoking drama, did not write with as many styles or subjects as The Simpsons.

You prove my point well. You need to watch more. Or perhaps get the books to help you figure out all the cool things you must be missing.

[Selwynn]

88. This show is smarter than you are, apparently

The Simpsons is not some kind of messianic show, but neither is it some kind of gutter show. It frequently makes subtle references to intellectual humor, puns based on Shakespear, a symbols from classical cubists and surrealists painters, a passing reference to Noam Chomsky, Walt Whitman, constant commentary about the silliness of religious fundamentalism, frequent political satire....

...if all you see is a beer joke or a laugh from Bart you aren't very bright, are you?

Now before you respond to that, respond to this:

What the fuck is your problem if I watch Pro-wrestling, Beavis and Butthead or anything else I want to watch for entertainment? What gives you the justification to add your non-sequitor slam to this thread. Oh, you watch "The Bachelor" for entertainment (Bleh!) you must be stupid.

YEAH RIGHT!

It is possible but not necessary that this is true in a specific circumstance.

[Monte Carlo]

119. You and I must be watching a different 'The Simpsons'.

Because when I watch the Simpsons - at least the older ones - I see a show with some of the sharpest wit on television, that has stayed sharp since the day they first aired.

Not for the intellectual crowd... I don't suppose the fact that the bulk of the writers for the show went to good schools like Harvard means anything?

[MadHound]

76. A little too quick on the Simpson smackdown there Bandit.

Yes, I realize that on the surface the Simpsons appear to be just another slapstick cartoon designed as pabluam for adults, and while it works well on that level you have got to have some intelligence to "get it". The Simpsons have and always been a carefully crafted parody designed to poke fun out our modern day life. You actually have to have some intelligence, along with both pop and classical cultural understanding to get the most out of any one episode. It has always been designed to make savage mockery of our society, but it was made palatable by wrapping it up in slapstick.

The Simpsons join a long line of animation and cartoons that have done the same. Warner Bros., Pogo, Rocky and Bullwinkle, and the early Flintstones all made a mockery out of US culture and politics, but wrapped it up in silly slapstick for the kiddies and those who couldn't "get it", thus insuring that their product would have a wide appeal.

How the Simpsons managed to make it onto uber conservative Faux is due in part to two things. First, the Simpsons started out in the early days of Fox, when they desperately needed material. Second, I think that whoever made the programming decisions didn't realize how savagely the Simpsons ripped society and thought it was harmless slapstickl. By the time they realized the error of their ways the Simpsons were their top money maker and couldn't be touched.

[maxsolomon]

89. well said

the simpsons, along with twin peaks, were the first shows on TV that i felt didn't talk down to the viewer. they assumed you were smart enough to get the joke, and didn't need to be led by the nose, or a laugh track. seinfeld was also in this vein.

[0rganism]

80. The Japanese have MANY cartoons designed for adults

Is their population "dumbed down"?

You'd be hard pressed to argue that adult animation "dumbs down" a population, IMHO. Especially without directly assessing the CONTENT of that animation.

[Selwynn]

86. I garuntee you've never watched more than three eps of the Simpsons

in your life...

Just because something is "animated" doesn't mean it isn' sophsticated satire.

If you think the Simpsons is for the "anti-intellectual" crowd you are grossly mistaken.

[Snow]

87. Gotta get in on this; it's something that worries me a lot as well...

I completely agree with your thesis, and add that any pride in intellectual achievement or ability very quickly gets labeled "elitism" - even on this thread. We are unable, it seems, to celebrate or even admit to the existence of diversity in this respect. There's an excellent DU frontpage article today about the struggles of an educated person in a family of, in some cases, determinedly uneducated people.

I like the thought about the origin having something to do with our foundations of anti-British sentiment. Many people feel a British accent to be pretentious and snobbish, even if one comes by it honestly. Two of my nephews moved from London to Torrance, a southern LA 'burb, as teenagers. Boy, their life was made miserable because of the way they talked. They now, 10-odd years later, have no trace of a British accent left.

We often have difficulty discerning between education and job training. I would propose that most undergrad colleges are about job training these days. I have taught medical students and residents for many years now, and find them to be very well job-trained and abysmally educated. To my mind, education broadens and opens one's thinking, offering the capability of seeing many different choices in a given situation. That flexibility and adaptibility to me is a large part of both education and intelligence.

Regarding other cultures and times, often intellectuals are included with the oligarchs in countries where the oligarchs have gotten hoggish to such an extent that they face a revolt. I'm thinking the French and Russian revolutions, the various peasant revolts around Europe. Those were marked by bloody deaths for the aristocrats and other upper crust wealthy, but also for the intelligensia, the academics. Well, you might argue, and certainly those in the revolution did, the intellectuals were supporting the oligarchs and vice-versa. Possibly, but there's also a strong thread of simple anti-intellectualism. This plays out at its worst in places like Kampuchea under Pol Pot, and China under Mao during the Cultural Revolution.

Interesting post, Fujiyama. We need more discussion of this; it can be very divisive, and reflexive in that people react often without thought.

[info being]

98. Yes, I feel the same way

I feel so freakin' lonely in this country as a thinker. I am constantly muzzled and ignored.

I have a colleague, about 40 years old, who told me that when he was 28 he stopped reading literature and philosophy because it got to be too difficult to interact with friends and colleagues. He intentionally chose ignorance.

And it hasn't made him happy. I don't want to go into the details, but the choices he felt society forced him to make has practically destroyed him.

[hiphopnation]

92. Maybe

it's 'Mob Mentality'??

Is it the psychology of the ideas that come from a very large pool of people? Is it the mean intelligence of large groups? In other words, the average intelligence?

Perhaps what we have here is the intelligence of the average American. But on a larger scale, maybe it is part of the psychology of large groups of people and the way they think. I meant to take a class on large-group psychology. I was just too busy with Nintendo and that season of 'Friends'. Oh well!

[info being]

99. You are right

We need more social groups that encourage intellectualism. It is not something that can be expected to come out of the mainstream.

I have found that people can never appreciate / understand anyone more intelligent than themselves. I don't think this is cultural; rather, universal.

[mitchum]

100. It's a long-standing American tradition...

nothing new

[Ishoutandscream]

101. Hey, but come on. Who does 'Murka respect more

A subversive sociology professor making 35 grand a year, or someone with an eighth grade education who invented the Twinkie.

You know what your average 'Murkan would say.

[fujiyama]

117. mmmm....twinkies...

Ok, I just had to do that, being that Homer's my avatar ;-)

But, in all honesty, I think both should be respected. One for educating his students and opening them up to new and perhaps different ideas than those they encountered earlier, and the twinkie man for creating a product that has sold quite well...Both manual labor jobs and theoretical type jobs should be respected (both the mechanic, and the theoretical mathematician). Both education and entrepeanurial (sp?) spirit should be respected...

I see some disdain and arrogance on both sides...Studying engineering myself, I think sometimes engineers may look down on the electricians, mechanics, etc...But I think in the US, we have a lot of the same attitide on the other side as well. Theoretical rigor and the scientific method are not often given the respect they ought to. Case in point would be the anti-evolution fervor that has caught on in the South. Anything that contradicts doctrine is heresy. Anyone that questions authority is unpatriotic.

[wadestock]

103. Don't you get it?

Don't think....get back to work my friend....

Productivity....growth!

Sure our culture has suffered in an atmosphere of Reaganism which has immortalized the concept that growth is everything....

This is a religion of sorts that we're fighting in the new conservative. For them....all you have to do is BELIEVE....believe in yourself and you'll be in that upper 1%....believe in the US military might....it can and should literally take over the world....

Yes...of course it's completely anti-intellectual. Anyone who believes that runaway capitalism can save the world is a complete idiot.

As we suck up 80% of the world's energy and resources...we don't have a lot to show for ourselves. The European nations and Canada have equalled or exceeded our middle class with considerably less resources.

America today....in terms of the vision of the new conservative....is to produce the most astounding upper class of all time.....that's going to be the only real accomplishment.

[young_at_heart]

106. The most astounding upper class of all time!

I know this is true, but it still breaks my heart to read it.

[ixion]

109. agreed... for years I have been saying this...

Anyone who shows an interest (in K-12) in science or math or any type of intellectual pursuit is abused and harassased. I know, because I was one of those people. In some cases, this carries over into college. Anyone who questions a professors premise is labeled a disruptor, and demonized. This has been something that has been growing in our society for years, and now finally seems to be at a peak.
Bush has made anti-intellectualism fashionable, and I find that disgusting. These same people who are so quick to loathe intellectuals will come seeking help when it is needed. These same people are the primary reason that I have lost confidence in humanity. I simply can't believe that people can be so quick to condemn those who ask questions, those who dissent.

These are the people who will bring the civilzed world to its knees, in a tsunami of stupidity.

[ComerPerro]

116. We don't take kindly to no book learnin'

round these here parts. You just take your fancy "education" and get the hell on out of here.

After all, its not a matter of how smart, resourceful, creative, or hardworking you are. This is America! All that matters is how rich your daddy was, how big your SUV is, and how big the American flag on your SUV is.

[BeFree]

122. The Sheeple's rules

Willing to let the least common denominator become the ruling class is how a good flock is kept in line. Have a few guard dogs (delay, et al) prowl the edges and this flock will take any direction the ruling shepherd desires.

Imo, it's the Sheeple, Stupid.<g>