This UK Scientist who died, everyone hold your horses

[ShaneGR]

Reports are that the guy left his house for a walk. His body was found five miles away. There are no reports of gunshot wounds, etc.

Is it possible the poor chap had a heart attack?

[Emboldened Chimp]

1. There's no report on how he died period

I read one report that said it was "sensitive", which would lead one to believe he was killed.

[MidwestTransplant]

3. I would think "sensitive" would mean suicide.

n/t

[ibegurpard]

23. You mean "suicided"

n/t

[jagguy]

35. best check for syringe marks

if it was a massive heart attack.

[Cha]

2. Could be. It could happen to anyone.

Too bad!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

18. Tripped. Fell.

Told his secrets to the dirt.

[Clete]

4. He could have.

He was described as being very stressed about all of this. When the autopsy come out maybe it will point to this. Or, could an assassination be made to look like a heart attack?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

20. Happens all the time.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. best case scenario it was

an honest to goodness heart attack...

Worst case scneario it was a heart attack caused by
something... many years ago the Soviets killed
a defector (the actual country behind the Iron country
escapes me now) with a small ball which was filled with
Ricine, it came from a light tap of a cane, accidental
purely... and the man died from a "flu". took years
for MI5 to release that it was Ricine.

[MidwestTransplant]

8. Albanian I think

n/t

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

15. No.

Bulgarian. The Bulgarian Secret Service did all of the "wet work" for the Soviets.

[MidwestTransplant]

21. Thanks for the correction

n/t

[hlthe2b]

14. oops just read your post.... see details on that attack in post #13....

eom

[Qutzupalotl]

6. He was wearing a t-shirt in the rain.

Maybe a temporary bout of insanity, but smells like foul play.

[mrfrapp]

33. No, no, no, no, no

The weather in the UK yesterday was bright all day until early evening. He left the house in a t-shirt while it was sunny in other words.

[blm]

7. Heart attacks can

be mimicked or induced. Can't they?

[jagguy]

36. yes

and best of all it leaves no traces in the bloodstream !

[NNN0LHI]

9. Raining like a sumbitch outside and he goes for a walk with no coat too?

[Az]

10. Circumstances not likely

Its either suicide or murder. He left in bad weather with no coat or umberella. He was not known to take walks. It doesn't add up. He was either lured out and silenced or he killed himself.

[union_maid]

16. Tinfoil hat for me

I'm sure the official results will be natural causes or suicide. I also will believe that about the time I finalize the purchase of a fine bridge..connects Brooklyn and Manhattan, you know. We're living in a Cold War spy novel! I never could follow the plotlines of those, either.

[Ripley]

17. I thought I read a post in LBN

that said his neighbors in his village were shocked, because they didn't really know who he was but saw him walking all the time. This was his regular route for walking.

[mrfrapp]

34. No, no, no, no, no

He did not leave the house in bad weather, he left in the mid-afternoon while it was still warm and sunny. And he was a keen walker and had embarked on that journey many times before.

I do agree though, it doesn't add up.

[bicentennial_baby]

11. but

if it was a heart attack, why could'nt they immediately identify the body?

[radwriter0555]

22. ID can take time actually. Happened recently with a friend of mine

who dropped dead of a heart attack while out jogging. He had no I.D. on him, and apparently was quite (sorry) mangled by the attempts to resuscitate him. And know what? people look REAL different dead than alive.

Kelly was murdered, I have no doubt. With anything involving the bush family, foul play is always the first conclusion.

Remember, baxter was found to have committed suicide with TWO bullets and a bought and paid for coroner.

[Zan_of_Texas]

28. Cliff Baxter - to refresh everyone's memory

Re: former Enron VP Cliff Baxter: Cite your source on the two bullets, rad. I never saw any evidence for two bullets.

According to the write-up by the medical examiner, there was no statement on the number of bullets.

However, damn near everything else pointed to a cover-up on the Baxter case.

J. Clifford Baxter

Former Enron VP. His lawyer was negotiating with a Congressional committee for his cooperative testimony the next week on the fall of Enron, on January 25, 2002. This was VERY early in the investigations. Baxter was in the top 5 or 10 execs at Enron until his resignation the previous summer, and he would have been the highest-ranking person to be cooperative. On that very morning, though, Baxter's body was found in his car, dead, with a bullet wound in his head.

Immediately everyone at Enron started yammering about how upset and depressed Cliff had been. Immediately, the Medical Examiner ruled it a suicide, less than 24 hours after the body reached her lab, without waiting for any tox. or ballistic results. (For comparison, after the awful housewife case who drowned her 5 kids in the bathtub case, the same ME took, if I recall, weeks to rule those a drowning.)

The suicide note was sealed for months. When it was finally released after many legal maneuvers and an AG opinion, it was written in block print, and signed in block print. Handwriting analysis could not determine whether it was genuine or not. I'm not sure if you can look at the note if you're not a Houston Chronicle subscriber but here it is -- to me, an executive in his thirties does not sign his name printed. Also, the writing does not look sad or tortured or downhill or confused. <http://www.chron.com/content/news/photos/02/04/11/letter/popup2.htm>

Within months after the case, the head Sheriff in Sugar Land, Texas, the suburban county retired. AND the ME, who wasn't yet 50, retired and moved away. Every few months, the Sugar Land cops would issue a new report saying that yes, indeed, it was a suicide. The last report was 900 pages.

Baxter loved to sail and had been in the process of buying a newer, faster giant yacht. He had bought 4 new pairs of glasses within a week or so of his death. He was retired young, he had millions of dollars, a wife and 2 kids. AND, his name had come out as someone who had fought against Skilling and some of his shenanigans.

One of his old college mates was stunned at the death. Said that a number of Baxter's friends were concerned, and a little afraid. Said Baxter was above all competitive, and questioned whether he would commit suicide.

Baxter was raised in a Catholic home (Catholics disapprove of suicide.) His death came one day early -- he was a detail guy; if he had waited one more day, his life insurance policy would have paid out. As it was, it was within a two-year exclusion for suicide.

The tox report showed he had in his body at least one or more heavy-duty sleeping pills, Ambien, plus some other stuff. (Everyone takes a sleeping pill before they get in their car and drive away to shoot themselves, right?) His clothes were wet. He had unexplained bruises, and glass shards on his shirt. He was barefoot.

The story of the police officer who found the car changed over time.

After the car was impounded in a lot used by police, it was claimed no evidence could be gotten from it (bear in mind, a back window had been broken by police to enter the car) because someone at the car lot had entered the car in order to inspect it because they wanted to rent it. Well, come on! A primary evidence item, a vehicle that was purportedly a suicide scene (I actually have my doubts that it was the scene), and you're letting the public open the door and crawl in?!!!!

The police could never find any evidence that the very specific ammo used (often used by police and FBI) was purchased by Baxter.

The police closed the case. I did primary research on it, and the case screamed "COVERUP" to me.

[knowledgeispower]

12. That would be one hell of a coincidence

And he isn't a "UK Scientist", he was a GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL in the Ministry of Defense!

[mrfrapp]

38. He is NOT a Government Official

He's a UK scientist who advised the MoD on matters of bioligical weapons. A subject in which he is an expert, particularly with reagards
to Iraq and it's weapons programmes -- he spent seven years as a UN weapons inspector.

[hlthe2b]

13. Well, here's a possibility (forgive my wild speculation)

I just find so much to be so bizarre here, so I thought I'd remind DUERS of a real incident, documented here:

Ricin and the umbrella murder

Markov was hit by the dart after walking across Waterloo Bridge

LONDON, England -- It was one of the most notorious acts of assassination carried out during the Cold War.

Bulgarian dissident Georgi Markov was killed by poison dart filled with ricin and fired from an umbrella in London in 1978.

Markov, a communist defector working for the BBC World Service, left his office at Bush House in the UK capital on September 11 and walked across Waterloo Bridge to take the train home to Clapham in south-west London.

As he waited at a bus stop moments into his journey home, he felt a sharp jab in his thigh and saw a man picking up an umbrella.

He developed a high temperature and in four days was dead.

A post mortem, conducted with the help of scientists from the UK government's germ warfare centre at Porton Down, established that he had been killed by a tiny pellet containing a 0.2 milligram dose of the poison ricin.

Markov's assassination was detected only because the pellet carrying the poison had not dissolved as expected.

His assassin has never been captured despite close cooperation between British and Bulgarian authorities, including Interpol.

Markov, a playwright and satirist who had broadcast scathing accounts of Communist high life to Bulgaria, was the subject of two failed assassination attempts before he was killed.

And in the years following his death efforts were made to reveal the chain of command which led to the order for his assassination being given.

...more.....
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/01/07/terror.poison.bulgarian/

[ParanoidPat]

25. "left his office at Bush House in the UK capital on September 11".....

You just can't make this stuff up folks! :evilgrin: :wtf:

[hlthe2b]

31. History seems to have a sense of irony, doesn't it?!

eom

[LiberalLibra]

19. There are ways of KILLING PEOPLE without any tell tale evidence,....

....the timing is just too convenient for anything but :tinfoilhat:

[alaine]

26. Maybe he fell out of a small plane...

They are trying to make it appear that he was stressed. This is sickening, sickening. I loved it today when Rep. Woosley was reading all the letters from her constituents demanding an independent investigation in the house (h.r. 2625) and she quoted the man as saying "we spent millions on a sexual dalliance" but house republicans don't want to investigate Bush's deception. And now people are turning up dead.

But who cares? On the news it's all Kobe and Seabiscuit!!! The truly pressing matters of the day.

[snippy]

24. Might have been an acCIAdent.

[Romey]

27. Don't believe in coincidences anymore!

Since BushCo's entire SOTU Niger Lie is now totally hanging on the "British intelligence sources said" argument, it is vital for BushCo that no further leaks regarding this skewered British intelligence be allowed - and Kelly was the main source of leaks from British Defense on this subject!

[snippy]

39. I did not mean to imply I thought his death was a coincidence.

[9215]

29. If I am not mistaken

the CIA has a drug or technique for inducing a heart attack. Anybody know more about this? Those involved in the autopsy should be looking for traces of any drug that can do this.

If they embalm, or cremate Kelly's body before an autopsy this would add further suspicion to foul play.

[Gman]

30. Was it rat shot to the head from a .22 pistol?

The guy must not have flown in small planes too much.

[w4rma]

32. Maybe he was going to meet someone, but it wasn't who he thought

he would be meeting. Maybe he was told not to wear anything that he could conceal a weapon under (like a big heavy treanchcoat). Maybe he was planning on walking a short distance to a car to meet someone (he was found 5 miles away).

Maybe there is a microbiologist serial killer on the loose?

I haven't verified whether these statments are true about the articles they say they are talking about, but:

Nov 12, 2001—Mar 25, 2002: 13 renowned microbiologists mysteriously die over the span of less than five months.

All but one or two are killed or murdered under unusual circumstances. Some are world leaders in developing weapons-grade biological plagues. Others are the best in figuring out how to stop millions from dying because of biological weapons. Still others are experts in the theory of bioterrorism. {Globe and Mail, 5/4/02, NY Times 08/11/02}

Nov 12: Benito Que, 52, an expert in infectious diseases—killed in carjacking, later deemed possible stroke. {Globe and Mail, 5/4/02}

Nov. 16: Don Wiley, 57, one of the world's leading researchers of deadly viruses—body found in Mississippi River. {CNN, 12/22/01}

Nov 21: Dr. Vladimir Pasechnik, 64, an expert in adapting germs and viruses for military use—stroke. {NY Times, 11/23/01}

Dec 10: Dr. Robert Schwartz, 57, a leading researcher on DNA sequencing analysis—slain at home. {Washington Post, 12/12/01}

Dec 14: Nguyen Van Set, 44, his research organization had just come to fame for discovering a virus which can be modified to affect smallpox—dies in an airlock in his lab. {Sydney Morning Herald, 12/12/01}

Jan 2002: Ivan Glebov (bandit attack) and Alexi Brushlinski (killed in Moscow), both world-renowned members of the Russian Academy of Science. {Pravda, 2/9/02}

Feb 9: Victor Korshunov, 56, head of the microbiology sub-faculty at the Russian State Medical University—killed by cranial injury. {Pravda, 2/9/02}

Feb 11: Ian Langford, 40, one of Europe's leading experts on environmental risk—murdered in home. {London Times, 2/13/02}

Feb 28 (2): Tanya Holzmayer, 46, helped create drugs that interfere with replication of the virus that causes AIDS, and Guyang Huang, 38, a brilliant scholar highly regarded in genetics—murder/suicide. {San Jose Mercury News, 2/28/02}

Mar 24: David Wynn-Williams, 55, an astrobiologist with NASA Ames Research Center—killed while jogging. {London Times, 3/27/02}

Mar 25: Steven Mostow, 63, an expert on the threat of bioterrorism—private plane crash. {KUSA TV/NBC, 3/26/02}

[fshrink]

37. People have problems, and when the tension rises

they may break down.

[Pepperbelly]

40. if there is a decent autopsy ...

it will both take a few days and clear it up to some degree. Although it is pretty damned convenient for the crime cartel that is the Bush Administration.