What if Dean said he was courting "people that wear white hoods"?

[_Jumper_]

Would that be considered okay since their kids need health care too or would we condemn it because there are certain types of people that don't belong in the Democratic Party?

[pruner]

1. I'd have no problem if healthcare was the reason he cited

if he said he shared their fashion sense than I'd have a problem.

[Renew Deal]

2. This is Sharptons take.

I agree with that. In some cases it's not what you say, but how you say it. In this case it's both. I don't know why he felt compelled to reach out to the white hood crowd.

[pruner]

4. when did he reach out to the "white hood crowd"?

are you suggesting that anyone who drives a pick-up truck with a confederate flag in the window is a racist?

[janekat]

12. You don't think that the confederate flag is a symbol of racism?

n/t

[pruner]

14. I think it symbolizes racism to some people…

and other things (e.g., rebellion, state's rights) to other people.

[Kahuna]

27. "State's right's" is code for, "the right to own people."

That's what the confederates mean by "state's rights."

[MIMStigator]

40. state's rights? YEAH RIGHT!! n/t

n/t

[HFishbine]

31. Most Blacks do, Most Whites Don't

A Mason-Dixon poll conducted in January found that 77% of African-Americans believe the flag is a symbol of racism, and just 9% characterize it as a symbol of Southern heritage. Sixty-six percent of whites responding to the survey said the flag symbolizes Southern heritage, while just 21% describe it as a symbol of racism.

http://www.ncac.org/cen_news/cn77confederateflag.html

[_Jumper_]

37. Were only Southerners included in that poll?

?

[Renew Deal]

15. Yes

but that's another debate. The Confederate flag is a symbol of oppresion. The people that wanted to fly that flag 145 years ago wanted to keep their slaves. Everyone knows the history of the South. Why Dean would want to run to that, I don't know. I have so many feelings on this that it deserves more time. Basically, I feel that anyone flying that flag has no repect for the people that suffered under it.

[kyrasdad]

10. just my thinking

I don't think he was necessarily reaching out to the white hood crowd. I think he was trying to say that he would make it possible for everyone, whether they agree with him or not to enjoy the fruits of his labor.

Also, the best way to turn someone's "white hooded" thinking around, is not to hit them up aside the head with it, it's to show them, in really teeny tiny steps if necessary, that we as liberals are not out to destroy what they consider their american way of life.

In other words... you attract more flies with honey than vinegar...

Course... that's just me...

[Renew Deal]

21. You are right.

But what makes you right is the way you say it. What you said is possibly what he meant. But your comments are inviting. His are divisive. That's why I feel that there were 2 problems with what he said. It is what and how.

[HFishbine]

32. Actually

He was reaching out to rednecks in a way that encouraged them to think about the similarities they have with African-Americans. And it's about damn time too.

"There's no reason why white guys who have a Confederate flag in the back of their pickup truck shouldn't be walking side-by-side with blacks, because they don't have health insurance, either," Dean said.

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/5179098.htm

[QC]

3. What if my aunt had balls? Would she be my uncle?

[billbuckhead]

6. How is the Confederate flag different than the Nazi flag?

Don't they both represent regimes that were conceived with racism and slavery to be the primary reasons for their existence? To this day, don't they both stand side by side at white supremecist rallys and events? I don't understand how someone could be a progressive patriot and kowtow to that evil flag.

[MIMStigator]

41. Nazis hated some white people along with blacks. n/t

n/t

[killbotfactory]

5. What if he sprouted wings and claimed he was Satan?

I'd still support him.

[_Jumper_]

7. What if a Republican said he was courting the Confederate flag crowd?

Would it be a-okay then?

[pruner]

9. it's sort of understood…

no reason for them to say it aloud.

[_Jumper_]

13. The issue is consistency

Do we apply one standard on race to candidates or hold Democrats to a lower standard? If anything we should hold our politicians to a higher standard.

[Kahuna]

29. No it wouldn't be okay. It also wouldn't be okay..

if one of the other candidates said it. Boy would they howl then.

[retyred]

42. Trent Lott, Trent Lott, Trent Lott

Oh I remember it well! Lott was crucified by both the right and the left for his pandering a segregationist, Deans words amount to the same thing as far as the politically correct are concerned.

Me? I don't care but I'm sure glad it was Dean that said it and not Clark.



Retyred In Fla
So I Read This Book

[poskonig]

8. Then Dean would be in trouble.

But Dean didn't say this, therefore everything is fine.

[Wonk]

11. That is a valid question, imho, though some may call it flamebait.

How much do we really want to pander for the votes of folks like this caller to CNN?
http://www.nationallampoon.com/news/truefacts/assets/helms.mov

[_Jumper_]

16. That is why I asked it

I am not a flamer. You rarely see me in the flame threads and I never flame any candidate. All our candidates are 10x better than Bush. If Dean wins the nomination I'll support him 100%.

[John_Shadows_1]

17. then he would have a real problem ...

... differentiating degrees.

[Rose Siding]

18. Fan it higher

Surely we can get more extreme than this. Try some of the kind of thing that one southern Dem has been using (bonus: there will even be enough of this to go around for any Dem nominee):

snip>
"You know, if some of these folks have been living back to that April night in 1775 when Paul Revere came riding through, saying, 'The British are coming, British are coming' - if Howard Dean was living back then he would have yelled out the window, 'Shut up I'm trying to get some sleep in here.'

"It's a disgrace," Miller reiterated, before issuing his endorsement for President Bush.

http://www.phxnews.com/fullstory.php?article=7334

[_Jumper_]

19. I'm not anti-Dean. I am not a flamer.

I asked this to raise the issue of whether or not there are some people we should not have in our party.

[Guaranteed]

45. OH...I see. You mean the South.

Alright. That's gonna make elections tough, you know.

[JackSwift]

20. But he didn't, now did he

read exactly what he said, he was not applauding racism

[_Jumper_]

22. I didn't say that

My point is whether or not we draw a line at some point and say certain people don't belong in our party. Or would we court any group for a few votes?

[Old and In the Way]

35. I agree...........whites who like the confederate flag and drive

pick-up trucks may also be voters. They may also be getting crushed by the travesty of what we call healthcare today. Nowhere in his statement do I see him condoning confederate flags and the perceived racism that it symbolizes. I may not agree with their politics nor their social inclinations, but they are Americans and we do share common issues, like the debilitating cost of healthcare.

[mzmolly]

23. What if Dean raised money for and praised Republicans?

Oh wait, that was somebody else...

[Supply Side Jesus]

26. lmao....BLING!

hit that one a head.
God forbid the man would want to et the white southern vote.
Not like he was saying the "south was right," and "save your pennies, the south will rise again!"
People when desperate will grasp at staws.

[LoZoccolo]

24. I've heard him speak before...

...and he's really about getting those people who think they benefit from racism - who don't really get anything from it (they still don't have healthcare etc) - to question why they believe what they do.

Context. Please.

[LoZoccolo]

25. P. S. - Why do you want the white hoods to remain racist?

As long as we're asking dishonest questions...

[Romulus]

28. opposing the PATRIOT Act

could be considered "pandering to the white hoods crowd. :eyes:

[TomNickell]

30. It's not the same thing. Not at all.

nt

[gulliver]

33. It would be fine.

If Dean said, "put down your white hoods and help us save this country," what is wrong with that? OK, maybe the time has not come for a healing move that bold, but one thing is for sure: leaving "white hoods" in the Republican party is not reducing the number of white hoods.

The Republican leadership tacitly accepts racism. If the misguided, mininformed white hoods joined the Dems for economic reasons, maybe that would help them see the light on racism. Instead, we leave their racism to be nurtured and inflamed by Republican pandering and agitprop.

Dean's heart is in the right place on this, I think. Lay off him.

[_Jumper_]

36. Dean isn't the primary issue

The real issue is whether or not there are some people we don't want in our party.

[quaker bill]

34. Reach for that stereotype

and here I thought progressives were open minded and not into stereotyping.

I have no use for the confederate battle flag and would not mind it disappearing from all places short of civil war museums.

That being aside, to cast all people who display it in the KKK mold is simply wrong. I live in the south and my job brings me into contact with people who do display it.

There is no doubt that some of the people who display it are profoundly racist. There is also no doubt that others who would never do so are no less racist.

Liberals put far more meaning on this symbol than many of the people that use it. Most of these folks are just good ole boys who like their beer, their babes, and a bit of Southern Rock 'n Roll. The far right uses this and other similar issues to show the left as unreasonable idealoges.

It is just like the commandment rock. The right sees this as just bait to get the left all riled up and filing lawsuits over some 'silly little thing'. When we take the bait, we are then playing the game by their rules. We can win in court and lose at the ballot box. - Just the way they had it planned.

We could reach a lot of these folks. Many are quite angry that their kids are being sent to die in a meaningless war. But if we are going to do it, we are going to have to mellow out a bit and grow a thicker skin.

[_Jumper_]

38. I don't believe all Confederate flag displayers are racist

I do believe most of them are and displaying it is there way of insulting African-Americans, but I don't believe all are.

I do believe that bigots do not belong in our party.

[southerngirlwriter]

49. There's LOTS of different kinds of bigotry

I've seen plenty in the Confederate flag threads tonight.

I am NOT defending Limbaugh AT ALL, but, for example, when people here criticize him, a lot use slurs about his weight. That is a form of bigotry, too -- directed at him for a physical problem.

If bigots don't belong in our party, you're going to have to boot out a lot of people on the Democrat rolls right now.

[jokerman93]

39. Sorry But

hasn't the Republican party strategiically used the "Christian" self-identity as a means of harnessing the votes of millions of Americans who don't otherwise benift by its policies in any other discernable way than the pride and self-esteem that comes from wearing (and waving) their team colors, and thinking their team is winning?

What's wrong with courting a cross-section of the white south that is probably dis-enfranchised and kept in a cultural ignorance that's politically useful to a power structure that thrives on hate?

I say bring them in. I say educate them by demonstrating the value of progressive policies that will actually effect the quality of their lives. We can get around to racism any time people are ready to recognise how embracing the power of diversity is empowering to them. They'll learn that social-political aliances among people different than themselves can bring them mutually closer to the centers of power in society, giving them the ability to participate.

People can be educated and change can happen over time. The south could eventually become intensely progressive, with the right cultivation and care.

We're falling into a black hole in this country folks. I think we have to change our paradigm a little. The Right has gained a stranglehold on our country by engineering social change in its own favor.

We have all the tools they do to fight back, but I think we're going to have to let go of some elitist pride along the way.

(no offense inteded to any DUers. I'm an elitist myself.)

On edit: And yeah, I think Dean might have chosen a different image to refer to that demographic, but first tries are often rough. If he's serious about his strategy, then I have confidence the man is smart enough to refine it.

[dfong63]

43. isn't that what the Clark supporters say Clark will be able to do?

... when they gloat about how Clark will win the south?

but the fact is, Dean didn't say it. you can play "what-if" all you like, but in the end your jaundiced speculation has no bearing on reality, on Dean's character; or on anything but your own desperation to smear the man who's beating your candidate in the polls.

[Forkboy]

44. Clark supporters seem especially troubled

[FrenchieCat]

47. A lot of Clark supporters are Black like me....

and are especially troubled. Because when Dean said that he want to include the "racists" that fly the symbol of oppression on their pick up trucks (brings a visual image to many blacks of the dragging death in TX)into the party, he didn't mention his stance on the flag flying over the capitals. Therefore, the issue that Blacks have been boycotting in S. Carolina for all of this time was not addressed. But those that support the policy of having that flag fly were pandered to.

[Guaranteed]

46. Maybe that's what they're upset about.

It's okay if some racist idiot votes for Clark because he's a general, but it's not alright for that same idiot to vote for Dean because his family needs health care.

[FrenchieCat]

48. I didn't hear or see Clark pander......

to racists confederate flag flying bigots.....

Did you?