I Agree with Dean's Confederate Flag Comment

[usregimechange]

He was making the statement that Democrats should seek the votes of diverse people.

Does this include people like my Dad who doesn't have an ounce of racism in his bones but has a confederate flag adorning his living room because he is a civil war buff? Yes, I hope he does vote for a Dem.! And what is more, so should you!

Proof: My Dad is a civil war buff, his book: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0788423584/qid=1067748455/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/104-2173151-2422328?v=glance&n=507846

He has confederate flags all over his house! I want him to vote Democrat! Do you? ??? :kick: ???

[_Jumper_]

1. What if a Republican made a similar statement?

Wouldn't we be denouncing that politician for pandering to racists using code words?

[HFishbine]

3. A statement

similar to what? Do you have a quote?

[bigtree]

27. bush and jim jones

why quote them?

[usregimechange]

6. no

because in the context of what Dean said it meant: we need to seek everyone's vote. He said this in front of cheering Democratic activists! They liked the statement, so do I. Are the other campaigns that desperate?

[JackSwift]

11. I'd sure as heck consider the whole context

and the exact words used. Nowhere did Dean say he approved of the confederate cause, a racist cause or otherwise. He said we need to reach out to people who ignore democratic candidates.

And let me make the case for reaching out to racists. Racists have an ignorant point of view. They have been convinced that they should have hatred and vote against their own interests by people exploiting that irrational hatred. But as anyone who has known more than a few racists knows, they are shortsighted and disgusting on race issues, but can be full-fledged human beings otherwise. Why not ask them to consider our platform overall. They might just see the logic in the whole thing and the illogic of racism while they are at it.

I notice that as Dean gets farther and farther ahead of the other candidates that they are increasing their attacks. I wish that they would instead sharpen their criticism of the Bush Administration.

[Ambassador Hope]

14. I am new on here, do people not think and just attack?

Dean never said he support that. I thought we want people that want to win and get votes?

[Old and In the Way]

23. Well stated Jack Swift.

"They have been convinced that they should have hatred and vote against their own interests by people exploiting that irrational hatred."

Correct....why should any of our candidates write off anyone? Dean was simply drawing out the point that people of diverse and even politically diametrical positions can have common ground on key issues...like the equal opportunity screwing we are all getting from the healthcare industry.

Kerry's my preference, but even I can look at Dean's comments and cut him some slack. Let's not distort our candidate's statements and positions....that is what Republicans do extremely well.

[Ambassador Hope]

2. Thank you

I thought we were out to win this election.

[DrFunkenstein]

4. You Agree With This Comment?

"I still want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks," the former Vermont governor said in a telephone interview quoted in Saturday's Des Moines Register. "We can't beat George Bush unless we appeal to a broad cross-section of Democrats."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&e=2&u=/ap/democrats_2004

[Code_Name_D]

5. Taken out of context.

Again.

[usregimechange]

10. of course

why don't you?

[Syrinx]

I agree with this comment 100%

The part of DU I least like is the elitism and the tendency to seek out racism and sexism where none exists. We need to band together and defeat the real enemies of the American way of life, and those people currently occupy the White House, and the old executive office building in Washington. Not everyone who has a Confederate flag is racist, and it's self-defeating on our part to pretend otherwise.

[maggrwaggr]

19. I agree with that comment. What's wrong with that?

I hope he gets votes from people who make bombs for Lockheed Martin as well. I hope he gets votes from soldiers who have killed people in Iraq.

I hope he gets all the votes, and Bush gets none.

[jobycom]

22. Yes. I thought that was the point of being a Democrat

I firmly believe that the Democratic Party and its principles (when it sticks to them) benefit all Americans, whereas the Republican ideology only benefits some, while excluding others.

Republicans are only good for upper middle class white males, and the farther you get from those categories, the less they accept you or benefit you.

Democrats are not only better for those who are not upper middle class white males, but we are best for them, as well. Our economic system creates a stronger economy, so all benefit. The economy is more stable, since people aren't allowed to just sink and drown when misfortune strikes. We include everyone.

If you believe that that we should only include everyone EXCEPT southerners in pickup trucks with Confederate flags, to my mind you're in the wrong party. Dean wasn't saying we should only include that group, but that we should appeal to that group as well as all others.

Congrats, Dean. You are the first candidate to move beyond partisanship to a national message. Welcome to the big time. It's about time someone looked presidential.

[RetroLounge]

40. Why don't you post the whole quote?

Oh, yeah, it wouldn't back up your Dean-Hatred.

Pathetic post... really.

[LoZoccolo]

7. It was totally not pandering anyways.

"There's no reason why white guys who have a Confederate flag in the back of their pickup truck shouldn't be walking side-by-side with blacks, because they don't have health insurance, either," Dean said.

I don't think this is pandering to racists either. I think it's about getting them to think soberly about politics.

You know, the more people take stuff like this out of context, the more people have to walk on eggs trying to address the issue, and the more they avoid it.

Cut it out, people. You're polluting the well for a cheap gain.

[Maddy McCall]

8. Your dad is a very rare bird...

An intellectual with a rebel flag is NOT the norm. :-)

Of course we would want him to vote Democratic. I think the disdain that most people feel right now is directed at the racist elements who use confed flags as divisive symbols. This doesn't seem to be your dad's MO tho.

Give Dad a hug and tell him we would love to have him on our side!

[Ambassador Hope]

18. How would you answer this

I have had several southerns say why don't the dems when they are in charge of a state take the flag down? Why do we yell and scream about it in states we do not control and yet not take it down in states we control. One told me that Bill Clinton never did as gov and attend ceremonies honoring it. I was told it has nothing to with being against blacks. Who is right? It seems if the flag is wrong, it should be taken down in all states.

[Maddy McCall]

30. Mississippi had a referendum on whether or not to design a new flag...

The overwhelming majority voted to keep the old one. A substantial number of black Mississippians participated in that vote.

Personally, I don't like the confed flag included in the Miss. flag because of the negative perceptions it inspires, and it makes us look more like a backwards-looking instead of a visionary state. Plus, what we call the confed flag is a Virginia infantry flag, not a Mississippi flag. The "Rebel Flag" didn't become standardized until the war was virtually over. That's why I oppose it being on our state flag, plus the fact that it wasn't put there until racist Redemption in the 1890s and then it became a symbol of opposition to the Brown v. Board battle in the 1950s, when racist Dixiecrats used the symbol to play on anti-black sentiments. Therefore, on MISSISSIPPI's flag, the Confed flag's existence is becuase of racist motives.

I guess the best way to resolve the dilemma is the way Mississippi did. I don't like it being on my state flag, but more people did, so the will of the majority was decided.

[Ambassador Hope]

42. Thanks did not know that

I live in Hawaii and get to visit with people from all over the mainland. That rebel flag was confusing. Dems in the south would get upset and say why are they making a big deal of it. That is how I found out Clinton would not take it down in Ark.

I am the type that if I was wearing a red tie and it offend you, I would not wear it around you.

I just do not understand dems getting upset at one state and yet not at all states. Makes you look like a hypocrite.

[jobycom]

25. Oh yeah? I've got one

It's on my high school yearbook, and on a teeshirt I have from a creative writing class. I once waved a Confederate Flag proudly in front of my high school's main rival. Harrison Central's symbol was the confederate flag, we were called the Rebels, and the symbol was a source of school pride for me.

So am I rare? Am I not an intellectual?

Democrats shouldn't be about exclusion for any reason. That's the Republicans' gig. Our liberal message is best for and includes everyone. Otherwise we would just be swapping one type of discrimination for another.

And no, I wouldn't now wave a confederate flag anywhere for any reason, nor would I display it. I also won't tear up my yearbook. Context is everything. The whole question of "heritage or hate?" is far too simple for the flag issue.

[Maddy McCall]

33. Reread my post...

Calm down and reread my post, and you should see that I agree that context is a determinative factor in whether it is being USED in a racist way.

[MIMStigator]

9. The drudge report already having a field day

http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2003/11/01/build/nation/67-deancomments.inc

[DrFunkenstein]

16. I Agree With - Gulp - Lieberman

"Governor Dean ought to be more careful about what he says," Lieberman said. "It is irresponsible and reckless to loosely talk about one of the most divisive, hurtful symbols in American history."

Dean spokeswoman Tricia Enright told The Associated Press that Dean had previously used the Confederate flag image in his campaign.

One instance came Feb. 22 at a meeting of the Democratic National Committee in Washington. Dean said the men with Confederate flag decals in their pickup trucks represented lucrative prospects for the party "because their kids don't have health insurance, either, and their kids need better schools, too."

The party elite stood and cheered.

http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2003/11/01/build/nation/67-deancomments.inc

[KoKo]

20. He "verbally used the Confederate flag" not the "image itself." Verbally

he said that "their kids need health insurance, too."

Your post is misleading making it sound to those who don't read the actual statement like Dean waved the flag while he said his comment.

[KoKo]

21. There are people who have confederate flags in their homes. And pictures

of Robert E. Lee on the wall.....some even have medals from their ancestors who fought, and they are history buffs.

They may be Dems or they maybe Repugs. But, if they supported flying it over the state Capitol lots of us would have a BIG problem with that, just as Georgia and SC folks did. There are always the racists who use the flag.

But, not all people who have confederate flags or memorabelia around are Racist Southerners.

[SahaleArm]

28. And I'm sure Dean was referring to historians.

*nm*

[janekat]

26. Me too. Doesn't Dean know better than to mention the Confederate flag?

n/t

[Syrinx]

34. "Governor Dean ought to be more careful about what he says,"

That sounds an awful lot like what Ari Fleisher told the press back in 2001.

[jobycom]

39. Nod

Yes, those words really trouble me. Notice-- Dean was trying to include, Lieberman is trying to exclude. Which do we consider a Democratic value?

[jobycom]

38. Most divisive, hurtful image in American history?

Interesting. Aren't the people flying that symbol from their trucks Americans, or has Lieberman revealed his plan to expel them from America?

The American flag flew over slavery for much longer. When Mexico outlawed slavery, the American flag became a beacon to slave owners, who fled to Texas, and even rebelled against Mexico to avoid losing their slaves. If I got into the Trail of Tears or the "winning" of the west I could raise a lot more atrocities that the Stars and Stripes have flown over, including many in the last two years. We haven't even gotten into the cross as a symbol.

Lieberman is pandering, and he's wrong, and that message will ensure defeat. Reagan used that divide-and-conquer tactic, and I despise him for it, and I will despise Lieberman or anyone else no less for using the same tactic, even if I'm on the same side of the fence as the person using that tactic.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

17. Field day? That's a good article, thanks for posting it

"Dean said Saturday that he was intending to encourage the return of Southern voters who have abandoned the Democrats for decades but are disaffected with the Republicans."

Goes on to talk about Kerry and Gep attacking Dean on this (duh),
and ends with this:

"Dean spokeswoman Tricia Enright told The Associated Press that Dean had previously used the Confederate flag image in his campaign.

One instance came Feb. 22 at a meeting of the Democratic National Committee in Washington. Dean said the men with Confederate flag decals in their pickup trucks represented lucrative prospects for the party "because their kids don't have health insurance, either, and their kids need better schools, too."

The party elite stood and cheered."

Right on.

[DrFunkenstein]

29. Now Dean Supporters Love The Party Elite?

How do you guys expect to have any credibility whatsoever? You really need to coordinate your talking points. The "elite" are the bad guys, man! Get on the Dean Express or get left at the station!

[RevolutionStartsNow]

46. Read it again: it was not a Dean talking point...

It said the party elite cheered for Dean when he made a statement about how Bush had screwed southern voters.

The irony was not lost on me, nor on you either, apparently.

I think the Dean vs. Party Elite thing is more of a love-hate relationship.

[usregimechange]

32. I cheered!

:kick:

[hippiechick]

12. i disagree

I think Dean, a Northeastern Doctor ... one of 'them educated libruls' .... just stuck his foot someplace the sun don't shine with that remark.

All 'Southern Joe Sixpack' needs is to feel stigmatized by a yuppie politician that they perceive as talking down to them, or making fun of them as being 'rednecks' and they'll still have good ole' boy george and his hog farm to fall back on ... the Dean camp won't see one damn vote.


BIG MISTAKE, HOWARD.


:hippie:

[cindyw]

13. I don't think Dean was talking about Civil war fans.

Flag has different meaning to different people. That is why it is so controversial.

[madison]

15. Dean's statement and, also, his response today.

Here is what Howard Dean said in his Address to the Democratic National Committee Winter Meeting, February 21, 2003, regarding the Confederate flag (Dean also said a good deal more on a wide variety of topics).

"I intend to talk about race during this election in the South. The Republicans have been talking about it since 1968 in order to divide us, and I'm going to bring us together. Because you know what? White folks in the South who drive pick-up trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back ought to be voting with us because their kids don't have health insurance either, and their kids need better schools too."

Read it at: http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5134

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
In response to Congressman Gephardt's and Senator Kerry's most recent attacks, Governor Dean said:

"I want people with confederate flags on their trucks to put down those flags and vote Democratic -- because the need for quality healthcare, jobs, and a good education knows no racial boundaries. We have working white families in the south voting for tax cuts for the richest 1% while their children remain with no health care. The dividing of working people by race has been a cornerstone of Republican politics for the last three decades -- starting with Richard Nixon. For my fellow Democratic opponents to sink to this level is really tragic. The only way we're going to beat George Bush is if southern white working families and African American working families come together under the Democratic tent, as they did under FDR.

"In his historic 'I have a dream speech,' Martin Luther King, Jr., said: 'I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood.' I believe Dr. King's vision still represents the future of America. And that is what our campaign is about.

[maha]

24. Gephardt had a Confederate Moment last January.

The link doesn't work any more, but here's the article:

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) - State officials took down Confederate flags at two historic sites Tuesday after Democratic presidential hopeful Dick Gephardt said they shouldn't be flown anywhere.

Confederate battle flags were removed at the Confederate Memorial Historic Site and the Fort Davidson Historic Site, said Sue Holst, spokeswoman for the Missouri Department of Natural Resources. The flags will still be displayed inside the sites' visitor centers. ...

In Missouri, the flag had flown for decades without controversy or criticism from public officials at the Confederate memorial near Higginsville. The remains of 694 Confederate veterans and 108 wives are buried at the site.

The Fort Davidson site commemorates the 1864 Battle of Pilot Knob.

I didn't hold this against Gephardt because what state historical sites do really isn't the business of a U.S. representative. The Fort Davidson site is not in Gephardt's district, although the Confederate memorial near Higginsville may be. Further, both flags flew over or near burial sites of Confederate soldiers. I reposted a blog from last January here.

[madfloridian]

31. Be proud of your dad, as I am of my Civil War ancestors.

Do not let folks here put down those like us. A grandfather, 3rd, was a physician and surgeon. Two grandfathers were wounded, one at Benton Hill. One relative was killed by the Union army while he was defending his fields in the Georgia countryside.

I am proud of them. I do not want the south to rise again. I just am tired of the fact that I am not permitted my pride in a good family.

I have a certificate from an organization of the Confederacy for my grandfather's service. There is a little flag on it.

From their writings I can tell they were outspoken and expected the same from others. I am proud of them.

I believe they would agree that racism is wrong and needs to be brought out in the open. I am glad he brought it out, and I glad he is not backing down.

[Robin Hood]

35. And if your dad hung a Nazi swastika flag in the living room,

Would that make him a Nazi Historian. Do people not get what the civil war was about?

[usregimechange]

36. He wouldn't

Look, Dean wasn't even saying flying a confederate flag was a good thing. Of course not. Any suggestion otherwise is a desperate cheap shot. He was saying we need to seek the votes of everyone.

[ErasureAcer]

41. he needs to talk about banning the confederate flag anywhere

the union won the civil war. never forget that.

the confederate flag shouldn't fly over any capitol or ride in the back of any truck.

to do so is traitorous to this "union" country.

[Syrinx]

44. the confederate flag shouldn't ride in the back of any truck?

fuck. It seems both Republicans and a lot of Democrats want to repeal the first amendment. :(

[Robin Hood]

47. I agree, we do need to seek everyone's vote.

But not if it costs the party it's political soul. Lord knows that Clinton sold off a good deal of the party's morals by giving in to Newt Gingrich. I guess that he didn't have much choice.

Historians a side, The confederate flag is a defeated enemy's flag that cost this country dearly in lives and property. To glamorize the confederacy should not only be viewed as degenerate, but traitorous as well.

This may sound harsh, but it is no more rigid than the existence that the confederacy wished to provide for it's African American slaves. Let's drop the charade and look at the faces behind the mirrors. The faces of freed African Americans. Those are the faces that were most affected by that war, and their displacement and suffering ocntinues to this day.

[FrenchieCat]

37. As a Black person

I find what Dean said to be disgusting!

There is a boycott going on in South Carolina against the confederate flag, and instead of addressing that issue in a mature way, he addresses the want for people to who have those flags to vote for him. Hell, I guess voting for Dean is most important to Dean! That on top of his Affirmative Action stance is too much to even bare!

[Ambassador Hope]

43. What about Clinton a small state Gov like dean?

Dean did not fly the flag at his state capital. Clinton did. Did not take it down and he was elected twice.

Did you really read what Dean said. Sound like Clinton to me. Out to get votes.

[RetroLounge]

45. Oh my freaking god. Read DEAN'S words, not the others.

From Howard Dean's Address to the Democratic National Committee Winter Meeting, February 21, 2003.

"I intend to talk about race during this election in the South. The Republicans have been talking about it since 1968 in order to divide us, and I'm going to bring us together. Because you know what? White folks in the South who drive pick-up trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back ought to be voting with us because their kids don't have health insurance either, and their kids need better schools too."

Read it at: http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5134

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
In response to Congressman Gephardt's and Senator Kerry's most recent attacks, Governor Dean said:

"I want people with confederate flags on their trucks to put down those flags and vote Democratic -- because the need for quality healthcare, jobs, and a good education knows no racial boundaries. We have working white families in the south voting for tax cuts for the richest 1% while their children remain with no health care. The dividing of working people by race has been a cornerstone of Republican politics for the last three decades -- starting with Richard Nixon. For my fellow Democratic opponents to sink to this level is really tragic. The only way we're going to beat George Bush is if southern white working families and African American working families come together under the Democratic tent, as they did under FDR.

"In his historic 'I have a dream speech,' Martin Luther King, Jr., said: 'I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood.' I believe Dr. King's vision still represents the future of America. And that is what our campaign is about.

[usregimechange]

50. yes

He even said he wants them to put down there confederate flags! "I want people with confederate flags on their trucks to put down those flags and vote Democratic -- because the need for quality healthcare, jobs, and a good education knows no racial boundaries."

[usregimechange]

48. out of context

Look, if he said he wanted to court the votes of racists you would have a gripe. He said we need support from everyone, even _____________________ (radical example) because they don't have health care and didn't get a tax cut.

[maggrwaggr]

49. I hope every American votes for Dean

I don't really care who they are. I want Dean to get all the votes and Bush to get none.

I thought that was the idea ........

(assuming he's the nominee)