Why is Jesus a liberal?

[mw]

I get this question alot when I proclaim that Jesus is a liberal.

Here's how I answer it:

If Jesus embraced conservatism, he never would have said, "Let he who has no sin cast the first stone".

Instead, he would have said: "Let me, who has no sin, cast the first stone."

[dobak]

1. Hell Yeah!

One of the coolest Liberals ever!

[WilliamPitt]

2. Well...

This was one of the last things I wrote before 9/11.

Thus, He Is Damned

by William Rivers Pitt
8/30/01

"The demagogue is usually sly, a detractor of others, a professor of
humility and disinterestedness, a great stickler for equality as respects all above him, a man who acts in corners and avoids open and manly expositions of his course, calls blackguards gentlemen, and gentlemen folks, appeals to passions and prejudices rather than to reason, and is in all respects a man of intrigue and deception, of sly cunning and management."

- James Fenimore Cooper

It is written in the Bible that the rock shall not hide, nor shall the dead tree give shelter, on the Day of Judgment. This is a piece of news that someone ought to give George W. Bush before those four horsemen take to their saddles.

I have been studying the Book of Luke lately. It contains many important truths that seem to have eluded the man in the White House, which is troubling when one remembers his wide and varied claims of devotion to the Christian faith.

I'm not sure what version of the Good Book Bush has been reading, but if it is anything like my copy, it is apparent that his lack of intellectual depth includes a deficit in the area of reading comprehension.

Take, for example, verse 15 of chapter 12: "Take care to guard against all greed, for though one may be rich, one's life does not consist of possessions."

This seems to be the basis for the more folksy saying, "You can't take it with you." When you die, all you have is your soul, the actions of your life, and the memories those who live after you keep. All the cars and houses and bank accounts and money you may have accumulated do not make the trip to the Other Side.

By all reports, George gave himself to Jesus not long after he reportedly surrendered the bottle. It can be assumed that he was given Luke to read, so as to edify his newly minted soul. It would seem, though, that this passage left no impression upon him.

Had it done so, George would not be dedicating his entire administration to the advancement of the wealthy. Had Luke resonated within him., he would not have shattered Social Security and Medicare with a tax cut that gave billions of dollars to rich people who don't need the cash and who won't be able to take it with them through the eye of that needle.

Had Luke found a purchase, George would not be molding environmental policy in favor of polluters who don't wish to spend any profit on the safeguarding of our air and water, thus solidifying a bottom line to produce money that won't help a whit when they face their Maker. The same could be said for his energy plans, meant to swell the wallets of petroleum barons who have not evidenced a single iota of compassion for the people they gouge or the planet they rape.

There is more in Luke that Bush should have paid some attention to.
Consider Luke chapter 3, verse 11: "Whoever has two cloaks should share with the person who has none. And whoever has food should do likewise."

It can be argued that this is the essence of Social Security. It is a
safety net for citizens who, due to age or infirmity, are not able to enjoy the capitalist fruits those who are able to be productive enjoy. Social Security takes something from you and me and the fellow in the cubicle next door to make sure that those who have no cloak are sheltered, and to make sure that those who would otherwise go hungry can eat.

Medicare makes sure that the sick who cannot afford insurance are healed and cared for by marvels of modern medicine that put the healing power of Jesus in deep shade. Combined, these two programs provide a margin of safety for millions of Americans.

The fiscal program put forth by George W. Bush has all but destroyed this margin of safety. This is, for lack of a better word, an act of violence perpetrated against scores of our weakest and most needy citizens. If I came into your home and turned you out, stripped you of your coat so you had to face the cold wind and stole the food from your mouth, I would be arrested and imprisoned. This is what Bush has done.

That he has done this at all is bad enough. That the rich have been allowed to feast upon funds designed to protect the weak is worse by orders of magnitude. That he intends to use whatever is left to make weapons of war stretches the very definition of evil.

That he lied in order to achieve this nefarious goal is the worst truth of all.

Consider his campaign promises. Al Gore has borne the brunt of many
Saturday night jokes about the phrase "lock box." This word was a GOP
invention at the outset, meant to describe the place where Social Security funds would be protected, one which Bush seized upon in order to convince people that he was worth their trust. Simply put, he vowed and promised not to do what he is in the process of doing.

The Book of Revelations does not have happy words for liars. Consider verse 21, chapters 3-4: "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone."

It is a symbol of these dark and twisted times that George W. Bush has been able to finagle support from millions of decent American Christians, because they have been duped into believing that he is one of them. Bush is no Christian. He is a liar who smiles while depriving solace from the meek to fatten the gluttonous avarice of the rich.

It is said that there can be no peace without justice. If we are to achieve true justice in America today, those good and decent Christians must come to see George W. Bush for the lying thief he is. They must repudiate him, revile him, expose him as a wolf in sheep's clothing.

They must realize the truth espoused by Luke in chapter 4, verses 43-44: "A good tree does not bear rotten fruit, nor does a rotten tree bear good fruit. For every tree is known by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, nor do they gather grapes from brambles."

The lies of George W. Bush have revealed him to be that rotten tree which can bear no good fruit. What falls from his branches is poison that affects every American, Christian or otherwise. In his wake we are left neither with fig nor grape, but with thorns.

A lake of fire awaits him, if there is truth in the faith he so deceptively espouses. He has earned his fate. He is damned. Too many of us have not yet seen him for what he is. It is worthy for believer and non-believer to take a moment on bended knee and pray that the scales fall, at long last, from our eyes.

[mw]

4. Very good indeedy

But I'm better at the single-sentence stinging or cool rhetoric than I am at actually writing entire pieces. :D

[maggrwaggr]

5. Jesus Christ, Will Pitt!!

leave us something to say, why dontcha?

Great work as usual. Good Lord.

[maggrwaggr]

3. Jesus said to give away all your money

He also said to pay your taxes.

He also said to take care of the children.

[roughsatori]

6. Go to Liberator Rev's website for answers to that question

http://liberalslikechrist.org/

I have sent this link to most of my Christian relatives.

[Maddy McCall]

8. Yes, the perfect place to go for Catholic hating bombast.

:eyes:

[roughsatori]

50. Could you post me a link to the "Catholic hating bombast"?

at his website. I was raised a Catholic and attended Catholic schools and I have not seen what you write about in your post.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Liberator_Rev]

58. Post meant to go at the end.

[camero]

7. Some others

Blessed are the poor in spirit
Blessed are the meek
Blessed are the peacemakers

Conservatives would say:

It's your own fault you're poor in spirit
The meek will inherit crap
Peacemakers are wussies

I forgot the rest but you get the picture.

[maggrwaggr]

14. LOL!!

dude, that's funny.

Someone needs to make a whole e-mail like that we can pass around the nation.

[camero]

24. I'm sure someone will

Be my guest if you want to use it. It is true though.

[LittleApple81]

57. SUPPLY SIDE JESUS STRIKES AGAIN! n/t

[rooboy]

9. Simple rhetorical question for you...

if Jesus was a conservative capitalist, don't you think he would have charged for the loaves and fishes?

And besides, he said (something like) "give unto Caesar what is due Caesar". Conservative Jesus would have been against taxation.

[Maddy McCall]

10. Read the Sermon on the Mount...

It is almost socialist in its thesis.

[Ambassador Hope]

11. Facts, when Jesus was saying that he was talking to Jews

You need to watch if you start quoting Jesus to see who he was talking to. He was also in that statement talking to religous hypocritical leaders.

Followers of Jesus are citzens of heaven and just have a short term visa for earth. They are ambassadors representing Him here.

[camero]

12. It is in the correct context

Stones can also be rhetorical. You're looking at that literally.
He was also telling them not to pass Judgement because Judgement is the providence of God.

[Ambassador Hope]

16. You can make the case for Jesus being for consv and libs

Jesus loved people. In fact, the only people he did not like were hypocrites. If we really want to win this election and get lots of voters back to us, let us be the party that hates hypocrites.

Jesus also said to be wise as a serphent (know when to strike) and meek as a dove.

[camero]

20. He was conserv on some things, liberal on others

But I can assure you he would not be a neo-con.

[Ambassador Hope]

28. No he would not be

I am a long time dem who is a Christian and I like to see what He states reported correctly. Any Jew who knows his teaching will tell you God gave the law only for Jews.

I am really suprised that has not been brought up in the ten commandments issue.

A lot of Christians believe they are not under the law but under grace. Ten commandments mean nothing to them as they are under grace.

[camero]

30. Then what you are saying is

Since I am a Christian, the law does not apply to me.

Laws such as keeping the Sabbath. Or laws against usury. Or even if you make it a stretch, laws against adultery.

The Ten Commandments are also Jewish law but they apply to everyone.

[Ambassador Hope]

33. If your a true believer, not me but the word of God tells you

that your not under the law. It also told the Jews that became Christians they are not under the law anymore but Grace.

You will find no where in the word of God that states the law was ever for anyone but the jews.

You have to look on adultery what it states. If you practice it under grace, you do not go to heaven. There are several other things that if you practice and that is the key word, you do not go to heaven.

Under what Christian live, grace, you have true freedom. It is for all.

Who was one of the first converts talked about in the bible. A very sharp black man.

[camero]

36. The meaning of Grace

Is an undeserved Gift. Now I am not the one who is twisting this.
We still have to follow his laws and his Commandments. Have you ever really read the book, or are you one of those who are "Always learning and never knowing"?

[Ambassador Hope]

43. Read it all the time

If your a christian, your not under the law. Your free from it. The law was only for the Jews. Find one place it states otherwise.

That is the problem of most religons. They want you under the laws. Most of the leader do not obey the laws.

I just can't understand people not wanting to be truly free.

I like being free and I only have to go to one and that is Jesus. No laws or men leaders. I am free.

[camero]

45. Show me the place where it says that

n/t

[Ambassador Hope]

48. Thank you

Rom 8:1-4
8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who

Did you know that your name is in the bible.

1 Peter 2:24
24 He himself bore CAMERO'S sins in his body on the tree, so that CAMERO might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.

You believe that and your free.

[camero]

51. Get it right

1 Peter 2:24

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness, by whose stripes we were healed.

It means Jesus died for our sins. Don't add to or take away from the bible.
Your preaching to the converted. I still think I must follow the Ten commandments, even if you think I am free from them.

[Ambassador Hope]

52. Don't trust me, check it out

You can put names in places where it is for you. That is not taking away or adding. That would be taking away if I said only whites.

What people seldom get, is their sin is on Jesus if they believe. They are free.

I want everyone to be free.

Find one place in the word of God that states the law was for anyone but the Jews.

What is so good about knowing this, is your not bringing people to a church or a man but Jesus.

You know the problem for most, it is too simple. We crave for thou shalt not.

Conservative reject many of the things Jesus taught as do liberals. But most of all they both reject true freedom.

[paradoxus]

59. Yea baby

As Lutheran the only thing the Law is good for is condemning people. The only reason the ten commandments issue was brought up was so that the wingnuts would be able to condemn anyone who lives under grace and is not obligated to follow the Law.

If anyone was ever against Christ these are them...

[maggrwaggr]

15. Huh? You lost me with that one

I have no idea what you're talking about Mr/Mrs. Ambassador

[Ambassador Hope]

19. If you quote from Jesus, you must see who He is talking to

Not everything He states is for all. It is like talking to me a dem and you talking to a repub. He was talking to people under the laws of God. Only Jews were under the law.

[camero]

21. it wasn't only Jews who were under the law

He preached to all, and the Bible was for all.

[Ambassador Hope]

26. Only Jews were under the law, it was not for others

God gave it to Israel and not the rest of the people in the world.

That is what the bible states. Jesus talk about all people and that usually was about their sin. He told people, and all people that were full of guilt that their sins were on Him. They just had to believe that no matter their color, rich or poor.

Just trying to have facts. I think my party would hate all hypocrites like Jesus did, we would have people come back to us and elect our leaders.

[camero]

27. He also said

To go and therefore teach my gospel to all the world. In the case of stoning, yes, that was Jewish law. But you still don't see it as also applying to our times, which it does. There is alot of symbolism in the Bible, and parables.

[Ambassador Hope]

29. Now your moving into areas he is talking to all his believers

You can't take it out of context. It is what drives a lot of the people on this board nuts when consv do it.

If you look at the people Jesus picked, no religous leader would pick. Read their bios sometime. It would be like picking one of the most radical from this list and then going to a radical follower of Rush Limbaugh and having him join them.

[camero]

32. Not always

Jesus wanted the whole world to know him not just the Jews. And anyone who grasped the true meaning of his teachings could also teach.

None of the desciples were saints, but they became saints when they saw his glory. The exception being Judas, who turned him in for 30 pieces of silver. And even he regreted it, even though it was prophesied.

[Ambassador Hope]

35. Yes, do you ever note this one thing about Jesus

He never kicked anyone out of his family. Not Peter who denied Him 3 times or Judas who betrayed Him. He served Judas to the end and He chose to reject Jesus.

That is what all Christianity is about, rejecting or believing that all your sins our on Jesus. You believe that and you have real freedom.

[camero]

37. Yes

I know this.

[Ambassador Hope]

39. You bring back memories with your handle, camero

Had a 1968 and loved it.

Your yes answer to what I replied is so important for you.

[mw]

13. And Todays Right: Modern-day Christ-killing Pharisees

is what they are.

[onebigbadwulf]

17. God said he would provide...

Thus Jesus supports wellfare and social security.

Jesus said blessed are the merciful, they shall be shown mercy- no death penalty.

Jesus said blessed are the peacemakers- no pre-emptive wars


Jesus said love thy enemy - no embargoes

[Ambassador Hope]

41. He said that to the Jews not all

If your going to quote from the bible, know who Jesus was talking to.

People under the law. Jesus never got into politics.

[FDRrocks]

18. BC he encouraged helping the less fortunate...

I belive Jesus existed, but I don't believe religion. Therefore I don't know the passage, but he condemned the excessively wealthy and praised those who helped the lower.

[Ambassador Hope]

22. He was more concern about their souls than their pocketbooks

Remember, it is the love of money not money that is the root of all evil.

The only people I saw that Jesus did not like and would attack was hypocrites.

I would love to see us all live the way Jesus stated, but few will.

[camero]

25. He also said

That it would be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than it would be for a rich man to go to heaven.

[Ambassador Hope]

31. Check your history books

That comment refers to a gate.

There is real warnings about letting anything control you. The love of money, not money is the root of all evil.

Money did not seem to matter much to Jesus, I say it was non-cents.

Remember his tax problems. He said go fishing and they got fish and got enough to pay.

Do you know why he was not against taxes?

[camero]

34. Give to Ceasar that which is Caesars

Money was man's invention and not God's.

[Ambassador Hope]

38. Your right

Did you ever read and it is an amazing story of God talking warning about taxes and the draft. Israel want to be like everyone else and have someone between them and God. Like today with all these religous groups with leaders who try to get in between God and you.

God warn what would happen with a middle man. Taxes, the draft, etc.

Interesting. I guess I am one of the few Christian dems on here. I remember one time sitting in President Carters sunday school classes. I don't know if many of you know he taught a sunday school classes and it was real easy to get in and talk with the president. I did and had a great time with him.

Remember when Clinton was in deep trouble, you saw him going to church and did any of you notice his bible he carried was full of notes.

Interesting.

[camero]

40. Suit yourself

I don't think that you are the final arbiter over who is a Christian and who is not. God decides that. So don't go saying that you are one of the few here. There are more than you think.

[Ambassador Hope]

42. Only God knows, I am just saying as a new person

That most I see on here seem to attack Jesus.

How come you never see other Religous leaders named used in vain?

No one but God knows who is a Christian or not.

I also see how dean people are trying to show people on here who do not listen to what Dean said on the flag to read it in context. You must do the same with the bible.

The law is not for Christians, we are under grace and free from it.

[camero]

44. Here we go again

Your right on every one but the last.

The ten commandments are God's laws. So then by this logic, we are free to covet, free to steal, free to have idols, free to not honor our mothers and fathers, etc.

Or are you saying that when we become Christians, that we follow his laws freely? I hope you mean that.

[Ambassador Hope]

46. Law was never for anyone but Israel

Why people want to be under it is beyond me.

You need to look up the things under grace you do not practice. If you practice these things you have not really beleive. They are simple to find and only a few.

The bar is actually much higher than the law. I will not go through each of the commandments but can show you the practice under grace for each one except the sabbath. We can worship God anytime.

You seem like a guy that really likes freedom. I had a really free man I met that had me read a book. He has given out over 900 of them and that book freed up so many people. Called Grace by Louis Sperry Chafer. It is also not his opinion but straight from the word of God.

I would love to see Jesus in a room full of all kinds of people, I think it would amazes many people of how He cares for all.

It is sin that causes all this evil. When your really free, you know your sins our on Jesus.

[camero]

47. C.S Lewis

A much better read, plus he doesn't claim to have God's word handed to him. I'll read your book though, I may see something I haven't seen before.

[Ambassador Hope]

49. My friend takes tours of C.S. Lewis home and it the top expert

on him. He wrote a really good book for all in leadership.

Decisionmaking and the will of God.

Try that book and let me know. I want all to be free.

If we are all honest, someone is always trying to get us under them. You will be attack for being free.

[mhr]

23. www.liberalslikechrist.org

eom

[Liberator_Rev]

55. Alan Colmes new book based on "Liberals Like Christ"

The new book by Alan Colmes, "Red, White and Liberal" has a chapter in it devoted to the theme of our site, i.e. "Jesus was a Liberal", where he refers to "Ray Dubuque's fabulous http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org web site." (on page 233)

Alan invited me to be a guest on his radio show last Thursday night and we spent about an hour discussing the topic and taking calls. He made it clear that the chapter in question leaned heavily on the web site. The actual page dealing with this issue is http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/Christlike .

(Sorry I couldn't alert you in advance, but I only found out about it a few hours ahead of time myself, and what little time I had was needed for preparation.)

[Zynx]

54. Right on.

The teachings of Christ are much more consistent with liberalism than conservatism.

[Liberator_Rev]

56. In defense of "Liberals Like Christ"

No sooner did someone point out that http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/Christlike is THE PLACE TO GO
(for all the most powerful arguments on the www regarding the LIBERALISM of Jesus)
than CONSERVATIVE CATHOLICS came out to attack me and accuse me of anti-catholic bigotry.
I've got news for my CONSERVATIVE CATHOLIC critics :
The Roman Catholic hierarchy is a part and parcel of the "RELIGIOUS RIGHT" (not to be confused with the "Christian Coalition", which is largely Protestant), not just in the USA, but throughout the WORLD.
THAT is what I criticize THE ROMAN CATHOLIC HIERARCHY for, and I do so, not by making FALSE charges -which would be bigotry -, by quoting FACTS, TRUTH and HISTORY, which makes it scholarship.

If there is one damn statement on the page of my http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/Catholic that anyone can prove WRONG, I will be happy to correct it. But in the meantime, grow up, abide by DU's rules, stop your childish NAME-CALLING, and deal with the ISSUES.

By the way, I am now reading Daniel Jonah Goldhagen's latest book "A Moral Reckoning, The Role of the Catholic Church in the Holocaust and Its Unfulfilled Duty of Repair"
Among other things, he debunks some of the myths used to exhonerate Pius XII. So there will be MORE Historical Facts on my web site calling on the Catholic Church to either stop teaching that sins need to be confessed before they can be forgiven or start applying that TRUTH to the TOP BRASS!!!!


As for Youngred's attacks. He is a real authority on religion, just the other day his answer to the DU poll "Which Religion Do You Most Identify With? his reply was "Though I am a catholic 'no religion' nails it perfectly." (for him).

[youngred]

61. "don't call me names"...then call others names

I didn't call you anything you're not. you ARE a former catholic priest. you DO have a bias against the Catholic Church, its not just the Catholics that can see that. I simply pointed out the bias in a website, BTW that's my first EVER post removed from DU, so I DO abide by DU's rules. Ray, I love your site, and your goal...however your constant broadbrush attacks on Catholicism and Catholics do much to damage the reputation of an otherwise fantastic mission.

And what has my response to that poll have ANYTHING to do with the topic at hand? Please tell me. I am thoughtful enough to maintain a faith but keep my spirtual life open. You call me a sheep and apolgizer, and now you insinuate that I'm not a real catholic. It's my belief that religion (of any variety) is no more than a vehicle useful for exploring an individual's spirtuality. i don't agree with "my" church (and indeed stormed out church last night when the priest got preachy on topics I disagree with). I am open enough to see the problems with the RCC, and all religions, I would think that would count in my favour over bombastic self-promoting attacks on other people

[Liberator_Rev]

60. Excuse me, but fair is fair!

In a post above, by a Catholic who shall remain nameless, since his post above was killed, I am attacked for the 7 times 70th time, as follows:
"As a former Catholic Priest, ray holds a lot of hatred for the church and its members. Just look at any of his posts here on any catholic thread, you'll begin to see. Drop his blind hatred of the RCC and his site is wonderful."

"As a former Catholic Priest"
is designed to alert or remind Catholics: (he's a traitor and/or reject, possibly thrown out for immorality)
The fact IS that I left the church in disgust along with many thousands of other priests and even bishops after Pope John XXIII died and it became obvious that the progress of Vatican II was going to be rolled back by the old Vatican Curia. Yes, I'm an ex-priest, and hardly ashamed to have disassociated myself from such a shameful fraternity. My site is attempting what Thomas Jefferson explained to John Adams that he also was trying to do with his "Jefferson Bible": i.e."rescuing the Philosophy of Jesus and the "pure principles which he taught,from the artificial vestments in which they have been
muffled by priests,who have travestied them into various forms as instruments of riches and power for themselves."

"Ray holds a lot of hatred for the church and its members."

(It doesn't matter how many times I repeat over and over again that the object of my criticism is the SHEPHERDS, NOT the sheep, in the church, Conservative Catholics keep repeating this LIE endlessly. Just see for yourself at http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/Catholic

"Just look at any of his posts here on any catholic thread, you'll begin to see."

(I'll call my accuser's bluff, and that's all it is. I invite everybody here to search my posts and see for yourself that these Catholic accusers of mine are full of something that don't smell too good!)

"Drop his blind hatred of the RCC and his site is wonderful."

(While I won't quarrel with the conclusion -- in his new book, Alan Colmes refers his readers to "Ray Dubuque's fabulous web site www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org " -- what Catholic accusers don't seem to understand is that it is those who CAN'T or DON'T WANT to see the monstrous sins of the Roman hierarchy who suffer from blindness, not people like me who have discovered it, see it, and wish to see Jesus' mission be fulfilled and that "the blind shall see".)

[youngred]

62. name me outright and attack me

then oh I'm going to keep it silent. I stand by what I said. I notice you didn't refute anything I said, but instead attacked myself and other catholics on this board. I never said you were thrown out for anything, You're putting words in my mouth. I said you were a former Catholic Priest, which you were. You do hold common catholic's in contempt as you have proven time and again with your attacks on myself and other DUers who happen to be Catholic.

You want a good example ray? here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=504993

tell me what your post here has ANYTHING to do with the topic at hand other than advancing your personal agenda.