A question for black DUers

[KaraokeKarlton]

What are you more offended by:

1) Howard Dean reminding struggling white southerners who have Confederate Flag decals on their trucks that they have just as much reason to vote Democratic as struggling black southerners...

or

2) White northerners deciding what you should and shouldn't be offended by?

[4323Lopez]

1. flag

You don't have to be black to be offended by the confederate flag...

[KaraokeKarlton]

2. But I'm asking black people which of the two they find more offensive

I'm not asking white people if they find the flag offensive or not because we already have a good half a dozen threads highlighting the feelings of anyone about the flag. This thread is for something else. Please allow it to be used for the purpose I intended when I posted it.

Thank you.

[FrenchieCat]

3. I am offended by the sheer lack of wisdom Dean has exhibited

Slavery was a terrible and tragic event that occurred in this land.
It happened to benefit the powerful
at the detriment of the oppressed.

This historical period left a stain
on the whole soul of this country.

The Confederate Flag,
whether one would admit it or not,
is nothing but symbol of that stain.

You can twist it, and rationalize it.....
but the truth is still plain for all to see.

What is a flag but a symbol.

One can try, but there is no excuse
why one would want to fly a Confederate Flag.

Those individuals who choose to uphold such a symbol
have not learned the lesson that should have been learned
from our history.

For that reason, Gov. Dean's words were shortsighted
and showed a lack of wisdom.

Wanting to attract votes
cannot trump the importance of the lessons
that should have been learned.

Ignorance is not bliss!

[beanball]

6. That damn flag

your words are so true.

[4323Lopez]

4. Well...

..Don't make up and exclusionary question and you won't get an exclusionary answer, its common sense!

Thanx!

[auH2Olost]

5. 3) Pandering

Period.

[AP]

7. Why do you think the people offended are only white northerners?

And why do you think anyone complaining about this is telling anyone else what to think?

I find that kind of offensive.

[KaraokeKarlton]

11. Because the whole time I lived in the south

I never heard anyone, black, white or other even mention that flag. I hear about it a lot in the northeast, though, which is where I live now. I have lived in Georgia, Mississipi and Florida. Most of the people I knew of who had the flag decals or whatever form of the thing considered themselves "rebels", "tough guys" who also were fans of Skynyrd, Jack Daniels, Southern Comfort, big trucks, loud motorcycles, hunting rifles and lots of facial hair. Basically, they were the young "anti-establishment" types...sort of like the pot smoking Dead Heads pretty common in other areas. The rebel flag is to the south as tie dye and black lights are to stoners. Most people who have the darn thing have it because they think it looks "cool", not because they agree with slavery or racism.

[Maddy McCall]

13. You haven't lived here recently, have you.

That flag has caused huge racial divisions in Mississippi, on a state level where progressives fought to have it removed from the state flag, and on the local level, in towns like Biloxi, where fist fights actually broke out between supporters of the flag and people who wanted it removed.

Same thing in South Carolina and several other southern states.

I still LIVE HERE. It isn't about social rebellion as much as it is maintaining some perverted form of white supremacy.

I wish I could allow you to enter my classroom when my students have discussed this topic. It has brought students to tears and has caused so much divisiveness that I won't even allow it to come up any more.

I am not trying to insult you, but what kind of bubble did you live in when you were here that you didn't see this?

[Julien Sorel]

8. It's simple:

he's interested in getting their votes, and not interested at all in having them remove their little symbol of their racist attitudes. In other words, the guy who 'talks to whites about racial issues' obviously knows absolutely nothing at all about black issues. He's completely full of shit.

[AP]

9. ...unless he's issuing a retraction, apology or clarification.

But then he'll go right back to making crazy statements about race again until he takes it too far and has to retract, apologize or clarify.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. It's Not About Dean

He may not be my cup of tea but he's pure on this issue.....

My problem is with folks making rationales for folks who fly that flag or states rights as currently construed......


Maybe he misspoke ..... Maybe his words were misconstrued....


But don't defend that flag and states rights....

[MessiahRp]

12. My question is...

will it be worth it to Dean to give up the minority vote to get all those white voters in the South that never vote for us anyways?

Rp

[Maddy McCall]

14. Believe me, his target audience with that remark is the overwhelming

minority of whites in the state. And as you said, those people won't vote for him anyway...it was a feeble, shallow, misguided attempt to approach the topic of race, and it was an obvious failure.

[FrenchieCat]

15. no.....

and that's the problem...it's bad strategy.

If Dean was the nominee he would not get a single one of those Nascar dad votes....no Right Wing Confederate flag waving bigot is going to vote for Dean.

Bush has the Repug convention set for New York in September...last day of convention is 9/11. He will give a big "I'm your guy" speech...

The speech will go something like this:
(Imagine it with his bad tx southern accent)
We have been fighting this War on Terror. We took it to them. We are safer because the fight is going on there instead of here. The Democrats want to be in charge on this War on Terror. Howard Dean, who has no foreign policy experience, and never saw military service, wants to take the baton from me. He didn't want the terrorist to come to Iraq to fight. He wanted them to stay here and kill innocent Americans, just like they did on 9/11. He also wants to raise your taxes. Yes, raise taxes on each and everyone of you. Now I know that we have to win this war, to give what we promised the the Iraqis...we have to give them freedom and democracy. We have to stay in there until the job is done. Howard Dean will cut and run. He wants to pander to the U.N. just like he panders for everything else. The man comes from a state that has as many residence as this city of New York has people of puerto Rican descent. 600,000 people folks. That's what he calls experience. Maybe if it was at least 1 million! Does Vermont even have a National Guard? I served in the National Guard, and I want to keep serving for you now. The evildoers are on the run. We've got them where we want them. If we stop now, if we lose our resolve, who knows what will happen. Next, Iran will be developing Nukes and threatening us. So a vote for Howard Dean is a very frightening thing. He doesn't know how to keep America safe. We haven't had another attack here in the U.S., and that says a lot about the great team that I assembled. We will win the War on terror for the sake of those innocent lives taken on 9/11. We will win the war on terror for the sake of Freedom. We will win the election because we can make you safe. The economy is looking pretty good. My tax cuts really worked. Howard Dean wants to raise your taxes, and give your money away, once again. God Bless America.

[Isome]

16. Karaoke asked WHICH scenario is more offensive...

I would say choice #2, although mid-westerners, southerners, et al, doing the same is just as offensive.

Not knowing the context Dean's comment, or exact quote, it doesn't seem offensive. From what is written, it looks like he was attempting to educate the rebel flag wavers (although my preferred method of communication is to give them a snobby look -- narrow my eyes, ever so slightly, and then slowly turn my head away in disgust, but not before they have the chance to glimpse the hint of a sneer forming at the corners of my mouth).