The problem with coincidence theories..

[TruthIsAll]

There are so many of them, and the sheer fact that there are so many defies logic, probability theory and common sense. It is probably true that there are Masons, Roman Catholics, Illumnati, various European families, Nazis and neoconservatives who are in positions of power and influence.

The U.S. Gov't after WWII secretly brought in scores of Nazis who they protected from prosecution and who were instrumental in the formation of intelligence agencies and rocket development. I have been aware of these facts for over 40 years.

The left and center believes that Oswald did not kill JFK because the totality of the evidence, primarily the magic bullet theory, defies logic - and because JFK had planned to exit Vietnam in 1965 against the wishes of the military industrial establishment. The right claims that the communists did it because Oswald lived in the Soviet Union (but they won't admit he worked for U.S. intelligence) and they need a scapegoat. And they refuse to accept the fact that JFK was seeking accommodation with both Cuba and the Soviet Union at the time of his death. The left believes that Castro feared another Bay of Pigs (or Operation Northwoods) and Khruschev wanted to have missiles in Cuba to counteract our missiles in Turkey.

We all know that the CIA worked closely with the Mafia and former nazis- and they were all very angry with JFK and RFK. And it is true that LBJ himself said shortly before his death (as did Nixon) that he never believed the Warren Report finding that Oswald did it.

It is a fact that Hinckley dined with a Bush family member the night before the attempt on Reagan's life. And that over 50,000 blacks were disenfranchised from voting in Florida (only through the efforts of Greg Palast did we learn this). This was an integral part of the Bush coup - just like they knew Scalia et al would stop the recount. The list of mysterious deaths related to the Bushes grows every year.

Carter lost because of a secret deal between Iran & Reagan. Whether or not it cost him the election, the fact is that the October Surprise was an attempt to do just that.

It is a fact that blacks were unknowingly used for experiments by the government in the fifties.

The Bush Gov't is destroying the environment by relaxation and elimination of controls in order to increase the bottom line of corporate polluters at the expense of future generations. This is what I would call an open conspiracy - they don't even hide it.

Do coincidences happen in real life? Yes, they do. But if a series of improbable events occur simultaneously, always to the benefit of a given political party or group of individuals (like the assassinations of peacemongers, from Lincoln to Ghandi to JFK to MLK, to RFK), it should at least raise suspicions that maybe something else is going on here.

A definition of a conspiracy is that it may be hatched by a few in secret, but many others may be unknowingly involved as actors. To be successful, a conspiracy must be complex, and when it starts to come apart, the media and the establishment will continue to cover it up, knowing the power of a lie repeated over and over again. And of course the truth is constantly suppressed. Keeping individuals fearful for their lives and livelihood is a sure way to perpetuate these lies, at least until the conspiracists are dead. And so we must wait until 2038 to view the JFK evidence, much of which has long been destroyed and/or doctored anyway. And Bush won't show us the 9/11 papers implicating the Saudis and the CIA warnings to him on Aug. 6, 2001. This is a coverup of a probable conspiracy.

A conspiracy can be effective over a long term, because unexpected events which may uncover it can always be dealt with in the media - by a conspiracy of silence. The aim of the conspiracy is to create illusion, fog, fear, complexity and chaos. And it will seek to silence those honest, dedicated researchers who pursue the truth - with threats, lies and label them as conspiracy "buffs".

Coincidence theories are born from feelings of denial and fear. They will never admit that there are people in America conspiring and plotting for power and greed. They always assume that these things only happen in Europe or anywhere else in the world but America, and that there is no such thing as a lying, cheating, malevolent American. These coincidence thinkers are very naive.

It is only when you abandon the ignorance, denial and fear and start to analyze the facts and try to learn from history, that you will become free at last. Covering up is for criminals.

By the way, not all conspiracies are bad. If there are any in power right now planning on getting rid of Bush, that's Ok with me.

[wtmusic]

1. TIA one of us is crazy

I'm perfectly willing to accept it's me, but...

do you really believe that any human or group of humans has that much control? If the government was that effective at plotting dissent would have been silenced eons ago.

[Maple]

2. It has been,

many times in history.

[RandomKoolzip]

9. Well, see....

Dissent can never be fully silenced because the power-that-be need to project the facade of "freedom" and democracy in order to give the ordinary citizen something to believe in. They'll never do away with allowing dissent completely, because that freedom is part of the basic bag of ideas which keep the masses happy; it's hard to convince people to defend a totalitarian regime which is doing nefarious deeds, but a democracy doing nefarious deeds in secret is a lot easier to defend.

[iangb]

3. How is it that some people are willing.....

........to immerse themselves in this crap........whilst their country is in the hands of a bunch of certifiable lunatics right now?

PNAC isn't a theory.........it's a fact, and its leading lights have you and your country by the balls..........and you want us to join you in some mass navel gazing.

[Eloriel]

4. Uhhh, just so you know

What TIA is talking about is how we GOT to where we are with PNAC in the place of honor it holds.

If one doesn't understand how we got here, you won't understand what the total threat is. And you'll never be able to figure out what the hell to do about it.

IOW: if you think just dispensing with the PNACers (or even getting any given Dem elected in 2004) will solve our problems, you've got a very rude awakening ahead of you.

Eloriel

[iangb]

6. It's one thing to understand PNAC,

it's another thing entirely to mire yourself in history when you're off to hell in a handbasket.

I've seen enough to know that this Administration is the most dangerous thing to happen to you.....and us......since WWII.

[Silverhair]

5. If every coincidence is actually a conspiracy at work..

then all hope is lost. If they are that powerful, then they can permenantly block us and we are only wasting time that could be spent having fun. If they are that powerful, why bother?

[Minstrel Boy]

7. Nobody but you is saying "every coincidence is actually a conspiracy"

And I don't think that's a coincidence.

[tom_paine]

11. Not every coincidence, silverhair

But then, not every "conspiracy theory" is merely a cojncidence.

As always, Silverhair, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Extreme views like your own, in which you categorically state that ALL conspiracy theories are bunk, is as ridiculous (particularly given human history) as someone who believes them all.

[Minstrel Boy]

8. kicking back, and to the left

an excellent post.

[TruthIsAll]

14. Tough skin. Tough bones. Pristine bullet. Back. To the left.

Three shots. Six seconds. Bad rifle. Misaligned scope. Poor marksman. Tree blocking view. 90 seconds later. In basement. Sipping coke. I am just a patsy. I request legal representation. Would someone please come forward? I killed nobody. No sir. No Oswald interrogation transcript. I am a Patsy. Doctored photos. Misaligned scope. Oswald double. Knew Ruby. Knew Marcello. FBI informant. Fair play for Cuba Committee. In Russia as a Defector? In Russia as a spy? Atsugi AFB, Japan. Knew Russian language. Sheep dipped. Knew Ferry.

[JohnyCanuck]

10. Operation Northwoods

No doubt if JFK hadn't put the kibosh on Operation Northwoods (a plan formulated by the Joint Chiefs of Staff in the Pentagon to stage bogus terror attacks on American citizens and American civilian and military assets in order to stir up the US civilian population into supporting an invasion of Cuba) and the "terror" attacks by supposed Castro financed and backed "terrorists" had gone ahead as the Joint Chiefs wanted, anyone who uttered a word of doubt as to the true origin and motive for the attacks would have been written off as another wacky "conspiracy theorist."

According to secret and long-hidden documents obtained for Body of Secrets, the Joint Chiefs of Staff drew up and approved plans for what may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government. In the name of antiCommunism, they proposed launching a secret and bloody war of terrorism against their own country in order to trick the American public into supporting an ill-conceived war they intended to launch against Cuba.

Code named Operation Northwoods, the plan, which had the written approval of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called for innocent people to be shot on American streets; for boats carrying refugees fleeing Cuba to be sunk on the high seas; for a wave of violent terrorism to be launched in Washington, D.C., Miami, and elsewhere. People would be framed for bombings they did not commit; planes would be hijacked. Using phony evidence, all of it would be blamed on Castro, thus giving Lemnitzer and his cabal the excuse, as well as the public and international backing, they needed to launch their war.

The idea may actually have originated with President Eisenhower in the last days of his administration. With the Cold War hotter than ever and the recent U-2 scandal fresh in the public's memory, the old general wanted to go out with a win. He wanted desperately to invade Cuba in the weeks leading up to Kennedy's inauguration; indeed, on January 3 he told Lemnitzer and other aides in his Cabinet Room that he would move against Castro before the inauguration if only the Cubans gave him a really good excuse. Then, with time growing short, Eisenhower floated an idea. If Castro failed to provide that excuse, perhaps, he said, the United States "could think of manufacturing something that would be generally acceptable." What he was suggesting was a pretext a bombing, an attack, an act of sabotage carried out secretly against the United States by the United States. Its purpose would be to justify the launching of a war. It was a dangerous suggestion by a desperate president.

Although no such war took place, the idea was not lost on General Lemnitzer But he and his colleagues were frustrated by Kennedy's failure to authorize their plan, and angry that Castro had not provided an excuse to invade.

Quote above from the book "Body of Secrets" by James Bamford and published by Doubleday. Posted at:
www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html

[Nlighten1]

12. I have a problem with people to put down "conspiracy theorists"

The term "conspiracy theorists" has become a 4 letter word in America. People who don't believe the official government story about events are portrayed as if they are mentally defective or paranoid.

Since when is being skeptical of something a bad thing? For Homer's sake, using your mind to think for yourself makes you somehow crazy?

[TruthIsAll]

13. Kick the TIA conspiracy - to never succumb to govt/media Bushit..

...

[TruthIsAll]

15. There is a centuries-old conspiracy. on the part of those who believe

all history is nothing more than a series of coincidences (which unfortunately, all fall in favor of the ruling class), who throw strawmen at legitimate factual lines of inquiry, to obfuscate, to try to stick everyone's head in the sand..

[eileen_d]

16. No one believes all history is nothing more than a series of coincidences

And rejecting certain theories of history as improbable is not sticking one's head in the sand. It's called judgement. Everyone has a right to use it.

My problem with some so-called "conspiracy theories" is that some people promote them to the point of making their audience feel completely disempowered and hopeless. Sure, compared to the BFEE I am "disempowered," but I'll be damned if I'll live my life from that angle and I'll be damned if I lose hope.