I am appalled as I watch Democrats falsely crying racism

[virtualobserver]

as they talk about Dean.

Any rational person who read Dean's quote would see that his complaint was that Republicans have manipulated Southerners with race oriented campaigns and that he wanted to point out to Southern whites that Republicans were not looking out for their interests.

Rational people like Jesse Jackson Jr. certainly could see it.

Shame on the Democractic candidates who did this. The republicans are sitting back laughing their asses off

[SahaleArm]

1. He's not a racist just a panderer.

I wonder what the next 'southern group' he'll go after, maybe the Jerry Falwell/Pat Robertson junkies?

[virtualobserver]

3. he wasn't pandering

He was saying that he wanted to point out that they were not really getting any benefit from voting Republican.

[SahaleArm]

5. If he mentioned that...

working-class southern people should vote Democrat then you would be right. He used the Confederate flag to pander to a specific group. Dean won't change their attitude about the confederate flag, he just wants their votes. That's pandering.

[virtualobserver]

18. the confederate flag is used to point out that they are being manipulated

by voting on issues like that instead of voting on economic and educational issues. That isn't pandering....he is trying to reason with that sector of the Southern society.

[SahaleArm]

30. I don't subscribe to that principle.

Pandering to the confederate flag wavers encourages racism. He's saying to these folks 'it's ok that you're racist as long as you support healthcare, education, and the Democrats'?

[virtualobserver]

33. so your position is that if you display a confederate flag.....

you are a racist?

[SahaleArm]

34. Based on what the Confederate flag represents...

Yes. Why do you think people wave the Confederate flag?

[virtualobserver]

36. what it represents to you, you mean.......

I've lived in the South for all of my life. I've known a lot of people in my life who displayed that flag and some were racist. But for some it is a matter of southern pride. They may be ignorant or they may be insensitive, but they are not neccesarily racist.

Most young people don't even know about Watergate or the civil rights movement in any real detail, much less the impact of symbols like this one. Dismissing these people when they could be brought into the fold is a bad idea.

[SahaleArm]

38. 'Southern Pride'

It's still implicitly racist, regardless of ignorance, to fly the symbol of a segragational past, even under the guise of 'Southern Pride'. What exactly does 'Southern Pride' mean to those folks who don't know their past?

[virtualobserver]

39. it is similar to pride in your state or your hometown

and it is certainly not a valid reason to write off those people or their votes.

[SahaleArm]

40. Then they should wave their state...

flag; instead they wave the Confederate flag because it represents a particular southern legacy that is rooted in segregation. I don't think Democrats should write these people off but I also don't believe we should pander to their racist tendencies to get their vote.

[virtualobserver]

41. It does not appear that I will sway you to my point of view....

or that you will sway me to yours.

I am sorry that you feel that Dean is pandering.

[SahaleArm]

43. If he didn't use the symbolism...

of the Confederate Flag, I would agree with you. 'Cause I've got nothing against Pickups:).

[virtualobserver]

47. I guess we just disagree on why he used that symbol.....

in the discussion.

[dkf]

46. It is about time we talked to these folks

and tried to win their hearts and minds.

Why just leave them alone to stew in their bigotry and hatred? Enlighten them and convince them to leave the dark side.

I'm not saying that all people who wave confederate flags are racist, because I'm sure that is not true. But for the ones that are, we need to open their minds instead of shutting them out.

[Classical_Liberal]

62. It doesn't prevent black people from having jobs, or an education

repukes do. Repukes are killing us on this silly culture war symbolism, and you know it. You are probably just a supporter of some dlc candidate that wished he had thought of this strategy.

[dkf]

44. He's saying that the GOP is fostering

racism in order to distract this segment of the population from voting for economic justice.

He's saying that disadvantaged white folk and disadvantaged black folk should be voting the same way because they are lacking the same things, health care for their kids, good schools, good jobs, etc.

Once you get these guys on the same team and in the same fight, they will discover they have more in common with each other and this is what will trump petty racist sentiments.

[fabius]

2. Dean's either "pandering" or...

...pointing out to poor Southern whites that they've been used by the Republicans for years and tricked into voting against their own interests.

Democrats would win more often if we could stop using "wedge" issues against ourselves. Circular firing squad anyone?

[Classical_Liberal]

64. What makes you so sure the people who are putting out this phony

outrage are democrats. If I heard dean say that and I was a repuke it would scare the shit out of me, because he just disarmed my wedge issue.

[Maddy McCall]

4. Well MY GOD if that is what he meant, then why didn't he SAY that!

Instead, he typecasted Southerners, and I don't appreciate it.

[ryharrin]

7. When I've heard him say this for the past half-year,

this is the only way I took it. I never considered that anyone could construe his statement as racist or condoning racism.

[virtualobserver]

8. he didn't typecast anyone

"White folks in the South who drive pick-up trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back ought to be voting with us because their kids don't have health insurance either, and their kids need better schools too."-- Dr. Howard Dean, DNC Winter meeting, February 21, 2003

"I still want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks," he told the Register. "We can't beat George Bush unless we appeal to a broad cross section of Democrats

Des Moines Register interview



He didn't say that everyone in the South had Confederate flag decals, he just said that he wanted those who were to vote with us.

Am I correct in assuming that you would prefer that they vote for Bush in 2004?

[LoZoccolo]

25. I don't see how he typecasted southerners.

There really are some people in the south who vote Republican out of racism, you know. He didn't say "all" or anything like that. He just said he'd go for that segment. Should be easy, seeing that their beliefs are flimsy and need to be eradicated anyways.

[tedoll78]

28. Wow..

he typecasted all of us?

I must've missed that..

[Classical_Liberal]

65. No he looked at how the the rebel flag has handed the south

to the repukes in several instances just in the last year, in MS, Al, SC, and GA. It is that simple.

[janekat]

6. This isn't about politics or even about Dean this is about racism.

This is about how even Progressive Democrats (or should I say people who CLAIM they're Progressives) don't care about the feelings of blacks, women and gays. They're a bunch of fakes and hypocrites.

[ryharrin]

9. How does Dean pointing out that a group of southerners

are voting against their own self-interest hurt the feelings of blacks, women, and gays? Just because he labeled these people as supporting the confederate flag? He didn't say "lets change out platform to pander to these people" What he said was more like "lets convince these people that our platform is better for them already"

[w4rma]

10. Your logic: Rep. Jackson, Jr. doesn't "care about the feelings of blacks"

Congressman Jesse L. Jackson, Jr. Praises Dean on Bringing Economic Agenda to the South

"I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood."-- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., March on Washington, August 28, 1963

"White folks in the South who drive pick-up trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back ought to be voting with us because their kids don't have health insurance either, and their kids need better schools too."-- Dr. Howard Dean, DNC Winter meeting, February 21, 2003

Congressman Jesse L. Jackson, Jr., today said, "This year we celebrated the 40th anniversary of Dr. King's famous speech in front of the Lincoln Memorial in 1963. Forty years later, Dr. Howard Dean is reminding us that the great task of uniting the northern black and white urban poor and working class, with the southern black and white rural poor and working class around common economic issues good health care, high quality schools, and affordable housing is the key to wrestling our democracy away from the race-oriented Republican right-wing.

"Democrats were not competitive in the South in 2000, and we have struggled to thrive, and in some instances survive, since Richard Nixon and the Republican Party began using their race-based 'southern strategy' in 1968. The use of race, cultural and social issues have served to distract voters by keeping the focus off of economic issues has been the basic strategy of Bush and the Republicans in the South. That's why they make wedge issues out of prayer in school, the Ten Commandments on public buildings, civil unions, the false allegation that Democrats will take away hunters' gun rights, choice for women, the controversy of having the words 'under God' in the Pledge of Allegiance, and the Confederate Flag. Lest we forget, the Confederate Flag is the Democratic Party's historic contribution to the South, and current Democratic candidates have not been able to figure out how to come to grips with their own historic symbol.

"Normally, rather than directly confronting poor and working class white southerners with a strong economic agenda, Democrats have tried to imitate Republicans on many of these social issues. It is good that we have a candidate offering hope to the South with an economic agenda. It is Dr. Dean who is reminding us that the combination of poor and working class blacks and whites, north and south, united in coalition around a common economic agenda of jobs, health care, education and housing will constitute a winning strategy in 2004," concluded Cong. Jackson.

Posted by Mathew Gross at 07:12 PM
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/002084.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=631124

Did these SOUTHERN, BLACK, Baptists have a problem with Dean's remarks?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=73335

[Julien Sorel]

26. Stop throwing Jackson into peoples' face.

It's insulting, and only underscores the fact that you have nothing constructive to say yourself, so you have to Uncle Tom this fool, who is probably so ashamed of himself right now he has to pay someone else to shave him because he can't look in a mirror.

If you have an argument of your own to make, great, but I'm sick to death of your appeal to authority fallacy, especially when Jackson Jr. is no authority. He's one person, who is probably hoping for a HHS position in a Dean administration: ie, he's just as big a whore as Dean is.

[Forkboy]

37. lol

you must be right.

[Classical_Liberal]

66. Well your candidate is obviously a bumber or you wouldn't

have to knock mine.

[Julien Sorel]

77. Well, your candidate is obviously indifferent to bigotry, and

so I have to knock him. Too bad you can't disentangle your nationalistic feelings for Dean and see just how stupid and destructive what he said was. Of course, pretending that this has something to do with the candidate I support is one way of trying to deflect attention from just how badly Dean fucked up.

'Bumber?' Don't even bother trying to explain.

[Classical_Liberal]

78. No he isn't indifferent to bigotry

getting such people to see how they are manipulated by racist repukes on this issue, and to vote their economic interests instead of their race does more to overcome bigotry than letting the racist repukes wedge white voters over a symbol.

[virtualobserver]

12. Dean wants to talk to those people about why they should stop...

supporting Republicans. Blacks, women and gays would all benefit if more people voted Democrat, and that is all that Dean is asking for.

At some point we all have to realize that we are all in this together. We all sink or swim together.


on edit: added letter L to should in title

[0rganism]

16. Do you think a person's racist beliefs should affect their welfare checks?

Is it hypocritical to suppose that children of an impoverished KKK member should receive the same opportunity for affordable health care and decent public education as those of a black, a woman, or a gay?

Is it uncaring to point out that the rebel flag contingent has been voting against their own economic interests for decades?

Is it fake progressivity to hope that even some hardened racists could eventually figure this out?

Astounding. I never knew. As always, DU is a fountain of important information.

[pruner]

19. not only important info…

expert opinions as well.

[Classical_Liberal]

67. Replicans hurt black women and gays

and the get elected using wedges like the rebel flag.

[AP]

11. Lincoln said it didn't matter whether God was on our side. It mattered...

whether we were God's side.

That's the difference in what Dean said. He didn't say that he wanted these people to be on the side of the Democrats and give up their racist symbols and attitudes. He said he wanted to be on their side.

[pruner]

15. does all that spinning make you dizzy?

"I want people with confederate flags on their trucks to put down those flags and vote Democratic…" – Howard Dean

[Julien Sorel]

35. He backpedaled.

Or was it clarified? Or did he evolve? Or was it a flip-flop?

Because that's not what he originally said -- it's damage control. It's what he should have said all along, had the chance to say, but didn't, until he got called on it. I'll give him credit for saying it now, but that doesn't disgise the shallowness of someone who would have made the original statement in the first place.

Of course the fact that he had to come out and make that statement only underscores how full of shit all his supporters are for saying the original statement was perfectly OK.

[AP]

42. And he'll just push the limits again until he has to apologize, retract...

...or clarify.

It's a pattern now.

[ryharrin]

20. That's absurd.

He said nothing about wanting to be a racist. He said that he wants those people to wake up and realize that they're only hurting themselves by voting republican, and the mention of the confederate flag was just to remind the listeners why those people aren't voting democratic (racism)

[AP]

24. The difference in wording is subtle, but the difference in meaning is not.

And, furthermore, it fits a pattern that dean has estabilished with a series of dumb statements about race.

[pruner]

27. you're even more dishonest than I thought

I don't think you'd acknowledge the truth (about Dean) if you were choking to death on it.

[beanball]

13. Racism in the motherland

come on my fellow americans racism has existed on our planet since time began.There is nothing new under the sun,the old democratic party was just as racist as the new republican party of today,until Nixon lured the southern democrats into the fold by promising to go soft on civil rights,so you can see neither party is free from racism.Greed and racism will one day destroy our beloved country.

[SahaleArm]

23. That's why we shouldn't encourage it.

Pandering to a small section of the southern populous that holds onto it's racist legacy encourages racism.

[Classical_Liberal]

68. No letting republicans win on stupid wedge issues like the

rebel flag encourages racism.

[Ambassador Hope]

14. Remember a small state dem Gov who flew that flag proudly?

Clinton. He won. Clinton would never take it down. I think he said it had nothing to do with the civil war in this day and age.

Dean does not allow it to be flying in his state. What is the big deal.

Is our educational system getting so bad that people cannot read or just listen.

If Clinton did it and won twice, Dean is just trying to reach out to more voters.

I am leaning towards dean but I think this will drive me over. All these has been dcer's are against people like small state govs like Dean and Clinton.

[camero]

17. I don't want to see a rebel flag flying on a statehouse

But I will defend the right of a southerner to put that flag on his pickup. It's called freedom of speech. And I think Dean was speaking to thier economic worries.

[Lexingtonian]

21. No, the Republicans _want_ to run against Dean

The political mistake by Dean is not racism, per se. It's that he's telling the world that he has no actual clue about the Culture War- what it's about, what its terms are, or why we fight in it.

Or that most of us may rather lose the election outright than have a McClellan like him waste many more years of our efforts.

[Classical_Liberal]

69. The culture war was declared by repukes because they knew

it was a loser for us, silly! Dean is smart for defusing it, and it makes my support for him even more stong.

[Lexingtonian]

86. Of all the foolish things I have heard around here

that has got to be the most naive, idiotic, and clueless one.

You win. If Dean wins the nomination, the Party disintegrates.

[Paschall]

22. Someone just posted this on another thread. Worth a read

Statement From Governor Dean Regarding Kerry, Gephardt Tag Team Attacks

BURLINGTON--Last winter--to resounding applause and a standing ovation--Democratic presidential candidate Governor Howard Dean, M.D., told the DNC that "white folks in the South who drive pick-up trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back ought to be voting with us because their kids don't have health insurance either, and their kids need better schools too."

In response to Congressman Gephardt's and Senator Kerry's most recent attacks, Governor Dean said:
"I want people with confederate flags on their trucks to put down those flags and vote Democratic--because the need for quality healthcare, jobs, and a good education knows no racial boundaries. We have working white families in the south voting for tax cuts for the richest 1% while their children remain with no health care. The dividing of working people by race has been a cornerstone of Republican politics for the last three decades--starting with Richard Nixon. For my fellow Democratic opponents to sink to this level is really tragic. The only way we're going to beat George Bush is if southern white working families and African American working families come together under the Democratic tent, as they did under FDR.

"In his historic 'I have a dream speech,' Martin Luther King, Jr., said: 'I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood.' I believe Dr. King's vision still represents the future of America. And that is what our campaign is about."

Jesse Jackson Jr. has also issued a statement supporting Dean on this issue. Posted here.

[DrFunkenstein]

45. The DNC Reaction And The Version I Know

"I'm Howard Dean, and I'm here to represent the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party." That line was greeted with thunderous applause and shouts of approval from rank-and-file party officials. He questioned why Democrats had supported Mr. Bush's tax cuts or education proposals, which he described as meaningless. And he challenged his party "to stand for something." He left the podium to shouts of "Howard, Howard."

The most prolonged response came when he said, "White folks in the South who drive pickup trucks with Confederate flag decals in the back ought to be voting with us and not them, because their kids don't have health insurance, either, and their kids need better schools, too."

Why would this be the most prolonged response!?!

http://www.gaypasg.org/Press%20Clippings/February%202003/'Gusty'%20Dean%20rouses%20Democrats%20with%20call%20to%20arms.htm

This is the version that I was familiar with:

"I'm gonna go to the South and I'm gonna to say to white guys who drive pickup trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back of their car, and I'm going to say, 'We want your vote too, because your children don't have healthcare either!'"

http://letters.johnkusch.com/780.php

Edited to throw in link.

[Forkboy]

29. Clark supporters seem especially troubled by this

[FrenchieCat]

49. Yes, this black woman Clark Supporter is concerned....

thank you for showing your lack of it.

[Forkboy]

50. I'm more concerned

with the knee jerkiness of some DUers.

[Maddy McCall]

54. Yes, especially the Dean apologists...

who will excuse any offensive statement he makes.

[Forkboy]

55. After your KKK pic

any cred you had is totally shot.

Also,I dont support Dean....but dont let that stop your righteousness.

[Maddy McCall]

56. Boy, that really disturbed you, eh?

Again, since you are going to bring that up on every thread and run to admin to complain, I will say that when an image is putto a statement, it has a way of demonstrating the impact, and thoughtlessness, of what Dean said to those of us he was targeting.

And I could care less whether or not you find me credible.

[Forkboy]

57. You're right about one thing

posting that pic was a great example of thoughtlessness.

[Maddy McCall]

58. Actually, as I said before, it was a great demonstration of Dean's...

thoughtlessness.

Have you always had reading comprehension problems? You are attempting to distort my posts in two different threads. SLOOOOOW DOOWN and read and maybe you will understand what I am plainly saying. It really isn't that difficult.

[Forkboy]

60. Your grasp of "thoughtlessness" seems to be shaky

"I want people with Confederate flags on their trucks to put down those flags and vote Democratic - because the need for quality health care, jobs and a good education knows no racial boundaries. "


http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2003/11/01/build/nation/67-deancomments.inc

Yep,that sure equates with the KKK.

You must keep a lifetime supply of Bengay handy for that knee you keep jerking.

[Maddy McCall]

63. Sweety, you are quoting Dean's spin on his original remark, and trust me,

that won't fly. Read the other thread on this "clarification" topic.

[Forkboy]

70. "trust me"

heh...no thanks,sweety.

[mitchum]

31. We are decrying carelessness and condescension

[Renew Deal]

32. This is what happened to Rush.

Only worse. I wonder if you were appalled then. That's what the right will say. But would they be wrong?

[w4rma]

48. They are 'crying wolf' on racism and lessening their credibility

Congressman Jesse L. Jackson, Jr. Praises Dean on Bringing Economic Agenda to the South

"I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood."-- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., March on Washington, August 28, 1963

"White folks in the South who drive pick-up trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back ought to be voting with us because their kids don't have health insurance either, and their kids need better schools too."-- Dr. Howard Dean, DNC Winter meeting, February 21, 2003

Congressman Jesse L. Jackson, Jr., today said, "This year we celebrated the 40th anniversary of Dr. King's famous speech in front of the Lincoln Memorial in 1963. Forty years later, Dr. Howard Dean is reminding us that the great task of uniting the northern black and white urban poor and working class, with the southern black and white rural poor and working class around common economic issues good health care, high quality schools, and affordable housing is the key to wrestling our democracy away from the race-oriented Republican right-wing.

"Democrats were not competitive in the South in 2000, and we have struggled to thrive, and in some instances survive, since Richard Nixon and the Republican Party began using their race-based 'southern strategy' in 1968. The use of race, cultural and social issues have served to distract voters by keeping the focus off of economic issues has been the basic strategy of Bush and the Republicans in the South. That's why they make wedge issues out of prayer in school, the Ten Commandments on public buildings, civil unions, the false allegation that Democrats will take away hunters' gun rights, choice for women, the controversy of having the words 'under God' in the Pledge of Allegiance, and the Confederate Flag. Lest we forget, the Confederate Flag is the Democratic Party's historic contribution to the South, and current Democratic candidates have not been able to figure out how to come to grips with their own historic symbol.

"Normally, rather than directly confronting poor and working class white southerners with a strong economic agenda, Democrats have tried to imitate Republicans on many of these social issues. It is good that we have a candidate offering hope to the South with an economic agenda. It is Dr. Dean who is reminding us that the combination of poor and working class blacks and whites, north and south, united in coalition around a common economic agenda of jobs, health care, education and housing will constitute a winning strategy in 2004," concluded Cong. Jackson.

Posted by Mathew Gross at 07:12 PM
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/002084.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=631124

Did these SOUTHERN, BLACK, Baptists have a problem with Dean's remarks?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=73335

[virtualobserver]

51. yes, and it is counterproductive on so many levels......

it is depressing,

[sandnsea]

52. We can't IGNORE racism to gain voters

That's the problem with the way Dean is wording his confederate flag statement. It's fine to talk to Southerners about the lies and failures of the Republican Party AS LONG AS we also tell them to put that flag down.

[virtualobserver]

53. he isn't ignoring racism

Gov. Howard Dean
South Carolina Democratic Party
Columbia, SC
May 3, 2003
T R A N S C R I PT


Thank you. You know as most of you know I did not support the war in Iraq , but let me also remind you that the military that kicked Saddam Hussein out of Iraq was Bill Clinton's and Democrats', built by Bill Clinton and the Democrats, and let's not forget that. . And if the president keeps talking about a strong military, which I certainly support, he had better stop talking about $670 billion worth of tax cuts paid for by cutting veteran's health care benefits. .

I'm in this race because I want jobs back in America. I'm in this race because like Fritz Hollings, I want a balanced budget and I'm not kidding. I'm in this race because I want, like we have in Vermont, health insurance not just for everybody under 18, which we have, but I want health insurance for every single American, and we need to do that now. .

But when we come to the South, Democrats have got to start talking about race, because the Republicans always talk about race. They talk about it and try to keep people from voting; they talk about it by using divisive words like quotas, which are race-based words and race baiting words. But what I want to say is in the South we have discovered that when white voters and black voters vote together, we all make progress not here but everywhere in the country. .

And the message I want to give today, before I get gonged , the message I want to give today is two-fold. We have an obligation to the African-American base in this party to be sure that we do not ignore them , and we have an obligation at the same time to talk to white people in the South that have been voting Republican for 30 years, and this is what we're going to say.

There are 103,000 kids with no health in this state--most of 'em are white, there are an awful lot of people whose jobs are going to China, a lot of people that haven't had a raise in five years, a lot of people who need schools better--they're not just African-Americans, they're whites as well. And so I want to say to white Southerners, let's put aside those divisive issues that the Republicans always bring up, and let's vote together for a better future for our children because you started out here in the South voting together for a better future for our children.

We're going to build this party back and we're going to start right here today because this is an extraordinary opportunity for the Democratic party nationally to show we are serious about competing in the South, we are going to win in the South, we are going to make sure that our base does not feel neglected. It's time to inject some backbone into our party, to stand up for the things that we need to stand up for. .

But it's also time to talk to folks who haven't voted for us for 30 years and say this. You've been voting for Republicans for 30 years; what do you have to show for it? . Because as long as the Republican party's in power, none of our kids are going to have health insurance; as long as the Republican party's in power, none of us are going to have raises; as long as the Republican party's in power, none of us are going to have health insurance for adults. We can do better. We want jobs. We want health insurance. We want better education. White people and black people are going to vote together in the South and they're going to vote Democratic just like they did when Franklin Roosevelt was president, when Harry Truman was president. . We're going to stand up again for what we believe in in this country. Thank you very, very much. .

[sandnsea]

59. If he ignores that flag he is

And there really isn't anything in this speech about racism anyway, just telling people to vote Democratic because they'll get health care. Truthfully, it's not that compelling an argument because a Southern voter isn't going to believe it anyway. That's why Alabama voted down the tax/education bill, remember?

[Classical_Liberal]

71. We are not ignoring racism

We are taking a stupid wedge issue away from elected racists.

[Classical_Liberal]

61. You're are 100% right. This is just phony BS

. They all wish they had thought of it and they are jealous.

[Isome]

72. I'm in FL...

And about those rebel flags... southern heritage my ass! It's the WAR flag for the Confederacy for crying outside; they're not proud of having their asses kicked, or of losing that "peculiar institution" that provided poor whites a class to look down on, and enabled the richer ones to morph into the leisure class... they're mad as hell and fly it in defiance.

It's insulting, those who fly them know it, and that's the primary motivator.

[Classical_Liberal]

73. That's right

so why the hell do you want to give them those poor ass white voters? Why the hell are you giving the liesure class a wedge issue, to manipulate poor whites with? The republicans give them a flag instead of pride, and your helping them.

[Isome]

76. Just how am I helping them?

Please, do explain.

[Classical_Liberal]

79. Because the republicans will win.

if poor whites vote for race rather than economics. Very simple.

[KG]

84. poor whites have been voting race over economics for decades

and did so in 2000 and gore still out-polled chimpy.

they aren't the 'swing' voters dems so deperately seek to appeal to.

[KG]

74. truth

as someone that has lived in the rural south i can tell ya that 90% of the battle flag waving morons couldn't even begin to tell ya whatt their 'heritage' is.

to them it's just a red, white, and blue 'fuck you'.

[Classical_Liberal]

75. You are a greenie that doesn't care whether we win elections or not

The flag waving morons vote Mr! Everyone that is making a stink over this is ether a supporter of another candidate, third party, or new(maybe freepers)

[KG]

80. i am a greenie?

can you back up that assertion, or are you just talking out of your ass?

[Classical_Liberal]

81. Did you vote Nader or third party in the last election?

Do you support third party candidates in the next one? It could be my memory is wrong, but I distinctly remember you as one of the more dogmatic greens.

[KG]

82. sorry, the burden is on you.

you made the assertion : 'You are a greenie that doesn't care whether we win elections or not'

you back it up, or admit you are talking out your ass.

[Classical_Liberal]

83. Ok you asked for it!

Here is a thread where Jiacinto warns people against voting green to punish senators for a vote liberals didn't like.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forum_archive_html/DCForumID60/10687.html#10

Here is your reply

KG (2692 posts)
Oct-11-02, 05:50 PM (ET)
10. sorry, carlos
i no longer fear 'the republican bogeyman'.

you can stop your fear-mongering and hectoring.

i get enough of that BS from the chimp.

Here is the google archive of your posts with reference to Nader and the Greens for further study.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&q=+site:www.democraticunderground.com+nader+kg

[KG]

85. bet ya feel really good about yourself!

give yourself a big pat on the back!

here, i'll give ya 5 smilies - :) :) :) :) :) for your hard work!

yep, i support the the platform Green Party, that's no secret. so what?

btw - you still haven't proven i'm a 'greenie' or that i don't care whether 'we' win elections or whatever your whiney assertion is.

[KG]

87. but don't feel too good about outing me.

i'm not a green, i'm a red.



http://www.sp-usa.org/