ONE big difference between Iraq and the Vietnam War

[Noordam]

good shoulder fired anti-aircraft missles

I could not believe that the military were landing large troop planes in the main Baghdad airport. Yes in Vietnam there were ground to air missles but they were large multi personal units. Think the size of computers today vs the ones in the 60s.

I have been waiting to a 767 to be hit with a shoulder fired missle landing or taking off from Baghdad with 200+ troops on board. Unless the military stop using the "easy" airports and starts using isolated airports, a troop carrying plane will be hit.


I will bet the copter hit today was on a standard flight path and the enemy just sat up and waited for his daily run.

[Skittles]

1. that occurred to me too, Noordam

they better learn, and fast

[NNN0LHI]

2. That is what I though too. I was surprised to find out I was wrong

I do think they have improved a lot in the past 30+ years though.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-7.htm

SA-7

The SA-7 GRAIL (Strela-2) man-portable, shoulder-fired, low-altitude SAM system is similar to the US Army REDEYE, with a high explsive warhead and passive infrared homing guidance. The HN-5 ( Hong Nu = Red Cherry ) is an improved Chinese version with upgraded capabilities. The SA-7 was the first generation of Soviet man portable surface-to-air missiles. Although classed as "fire and forget" types, the missiles were easily overcome by solar heat and, when used in hilly terrain, by heat from the ground.

The SA-7 seeker is fitted with a filter to reduce the effectiveness of decoying flares and to block IR emissions. The system consists of the missile (9K32 & 9K32M), a reloadable gripstock (9P54 & 9P54M), and a thermal battery (9B17). An identification friend or foe (IFF) system can be fitted to the operators helmet. Further, a supplementary early warning system consisting of a passive RF antenna and headphones can be used to provide early cue about the approach and rough direction of an enemy aircraft. Although the SA-7 is limited in range, speed, and altitude, it forces enemy pilots to fly above minimum radar limitations which results in detection and vulnerability to regimental and divisional air defense systems.


The SA-7a (9K32 Strela-2) was introduced for service in 1968, but was soon replaced by the SA-7b (9K32M Strela-2M) which became the most common production model. The SA-7b, differs from the SA-7a primarily by using a boosted propellant charge to increase range and speed. The SA-7a had a slant range of 3.6 km and a kill zone between 15 and 1500 meters in altitude, with a speed of about 430 meters per second (Mach 1.4). The SA-7b has a slant range of about 4.2 km, a ceiling of about 2300 meters, and a speed of about 500 meters per second (Mach 1.75). Both the SA-7a and SA-7b are tail-chase missile systems, and its effectiveness depends on its ability to lock onto the heat source of low-flying fixed- and rotary-wing aircraft targets.

more

[Noordam]

5. Right but it looks like the B version did not come out until

1972 and the VN war was winding down.

And I do not know how many of these ever got to VN.

[alcuno]

3. I made the mistake of turning on FAUX............

and they were lamenting over the possibility that all these "weapons," like the shoulder-fired missiles, might be taken out of Iraq and used elsewhere.

[Noordam]

4. We have made the the US more open to terrorist. BUT

It is shooting duck in a barrel in Iraq now, sad to say...

[kalian]

6. Ummm....

The Vietnamese had the SA-7 "Grail" should fired SAM but it was not
a very effective weapon to begin with. Could scare the beejesus out
of any pilot if they saw the plume coming their way but that
was about it.
What the Iraqis have are BETTER shoulder fired SAMs...most likely
SA-14s and SA-16s. Some aren't even guided by heat...but by laser
from the launch tube...thus there might be no warning to the doomed
aircraft.