"We destroyed Iraq so we must rebuild it." Plays into Repub hands

[Mountainman]

This idea that we destroyed Iraq so now we have a responsibility to rebuild it is right out of the republican playbook.

1. It lets PNAC remain in place to do their dirty work.

2. It makes a case to keep this administration in place to do the clean up.

3. It makes a case that this administration has the capability to do the clean up.

4. It continues to increase the deficit, which is the method the repubs will use to bankrupt the government making the case that there is no money left for social programs.

5. It keeps the divide between us and the rest of the world large since they will not join in the rebuilding as it supports the current administration to do so.

6. It keeps the UN out of the picture.

[Minstrel Boy]

1. you're absolutely right

And I can't believe how many I hear on the "left" repeat these imperialist talking points.

Iraq rebuilt itself after the War with Iran and the first Gulf War. Why aren't Iraqi engineering firms receiving the contracts now?

[Kanary]

8. "And I can't believe how many I hear on the "left".."

First, may I say that I answer this with trepidation... after witnessing the attacks made here, I must preface by saying that I'm replying for the purpose of clarifying why you are hearing some of these remarks, at least from my point of view. I'm not attacking anyone in my reply, and I request the same in return. It saddens me that I even have to say that.

Now, on to, from my perspective, why you may have been hearing some of these comments. If we didn't learn it before, most of us learned in kindergarten that when you make a mess, you clean it up. Few of us grew up in a situation where there was an in-house maid to clean up after our every mess.

Given that, it grieves me to see what we have done to another nation, and how the citizens of that country are suffering. We are responsible for our actions, and we *owe* those suffering people reparations.

However, I also realize that the first imperative is to get the US out of there, ASAP. I believe that Dennis Kucinich is exactly right, and that we must leave immediately, and ask the UN forces to do what they need to do to "fix" our mess. It gauls me that we now must ask others to clean up what we did, but that is the fact of the matter. I believe that Dennis Kucinich also feels the same responsibility that I feel, and knows what we need to do to get us out and also face our obligations.

In a perfect world... heck, even in a mediocre world.... Bush would be impeached for his lies immediately, and Dennis or someone like Dennis would take the reins and bring some sanity out of this insanity.

Kanary

[Minstrel Boy]

12. I appreciate your post

And I readily agree that the United States now has a responsibility to - I won't say "rebuild"; I'll say "atone" - for what its government has perpetrated. And that can't be accomplished at gunpoint.

The Bush crew is simply unwilling and incapable of doing it, and so long as they remain in power, the "responsibility to rebuild Iraq" remains a hollow ruse. What "rebuilding" they are doing is modelled on their neo-con colonial fantasies (ie, introducing a flat tax; selling off industry to foreign interests).

A Kucinich Administration would get it right, I have no doubt.

[Kanary]

16. "Atone" is perfect...

...thanks for your words!

Kanary

[alcuno]

2. Absolutely. I support giving them 40 billion, our sincere apology,

and a promise not to do it again.

[Fovea]

3. Stay to do what exactly?

Rebuild it? How can you do that AND fight an asymettrical war at the same time. It didn't work in Nam, and we started out with real high approval numbers for that war. We will be shooting each other in the streets over this in a couple of years.

Bush stuck our collective dick in a bee hive. We don't have to stay there and do shit. We have to get out and let what is left of the moderate Islamic leadership to step in along with the UN.

If we are there by this time next year, we will be fighting the whole damn region. Israel will be a scorched spot. Why exactly do we have to remain and make this apocalyptic plan come true?

[IndianaGreen]

4. It is the recycled "Peace with Honor" strategy

which was responsible for half of the names in the Vietnam War Memorial. Is that what we want, more names on the wall?

[ant]

5. not at all

I don't think the points you made automatically follow from insisting the US has a responsibility to rebuild Iraq. In fact, I think most on the left would agree that the UN should take primary responsibility for organizing and managing this. However, the reality is it's going to take US money and troops. It's our mess, so we do have an obligation to fund the reconstruction. Plus, we are one of the richest nations on earth, so it's not clear to me that many other countries could contribute what we can. And while it would be nice for other countries to send in troops, who can blame them for not wanting to?

Let's not forget that "nation building" is something the right has always objected to and the left has always embraced. Let's not forget the left's position supporting the idea that economic and social injustice is what perpetuates crime (at the local level) and terrorism (at the international level). Don't confuse opposition to the administration with opposition to what is essentially good policy. The admin may not be doing it RIGHT, but that only strengthens the left's argument for getting someone new in the White House.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

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[leftofthedial]

7. I agree

We need to get US OUT asap. every minute makes a bad situation worse.

[DivinBreuvage]

9. You're absolutely right, Mountainman, BUT...

I have my doubts as to how much this idea ever resonated with a significant percentage of the American public. I think the majority of those who still support our presence in Iraq do so because they've bought into the "War on Terror" and think this is making us safer, or because they feel the "Loss of Face" from a US pullout would be disastrous, or because they somehow interpret "Support Our Troops" as meaning that once US troops are in a war you've got to keep them there regardless of how wrong the war is or how badly it's going or how much the soldiers themselves hate the war and don't believe in it and want to come home.

I've heard a lot of people complain about the $87 billion that's going to Iraq. I've heard very few people support it, and most of those always parrot the "talking points" anyway. I think a majority of Americans would much rather see the UN get involved and have other nations start sharing the costs and dangers.

As it is I think plenty of people in this country aren't all that concerned, deep down, with rebuilding Iraq regardless of whether we broke it or not; and as American casualties continue to mount I think more and more people will be of the opinion that we should just get the hell out and let them fix it themselves.

But, you're right, in the meantime this is nothing more than an excuse to funnel billions upon billions of dollars into Halliburton, Bechtel, and so on.

Françoise

[bowens43]

10. I don't see your points as valid.

1. No one suggested that PNAC be in control of the rebuilding. The UN should be in control and the US should pay the bill.

2. No , it doesn't. No one is suggesting that this administration over see the rebuilding but we do need to pay the bill and insure that it gets done..

3. LOL! No, it doesn't. Far from it. It makes a case that this administration was caught committing criminal acts and now is responsible for restitution.

4. Tough. We are responsible for the destruction caused by our government. WE have to pay to rebuild even if it causes us discomfort at home.

5. No, it doesn't . The rest of the world agrees that the US should bare the burden for rebuilding Iraq. What they don't agree with is that the US run the show.

6. No, bush keeps the UN out of the picture.

This idea that we destroyed Iraq so now we have a responsibility to rebuild it is right out of the play book of decent people everywhere.

[meow2u3]

11. We should privatize the rebuilding costs (not the benefits)

In other words, the big oil companies, the PNACers, and the war profiteers should pay back what they stole from American taxpayers by fully funding the Iraqi rebuilding effort--and they would not be allowed to pass one red cent onto American consumers!

Let Halliburton and Bechtel foot the bill without reaping the rewards. This is justice, if you ask me.

[Eroshan]

13. we have a responsibilty

as part of NATO and the UN to "secure" a nation that we helped to disrupt. That said we don't need to occupy to do that nor do we need to pay US firms to do the work of reconstruction. I have been against this
illegal war from the inception by the PNACers. But feel we need to help the Iraqs with their security. If we left them now they would be at the mercy of Iran and internal civil war.

[Deja Q]

14. I'll buy that

But what about the people of Iraq, who we did uproot and "liberate"? Do we leave them in disarray?

May as well, it'd follow a typical US strategy.

Except Iraq has oil and Bush wants to set an example.

Iraq will be nothing in the future as PNAC contrives more events to take over the world's oil suppliers.

4 is a hypocrisy. The repukes are sheer anti-american bastards if they're going to impose their fascism on Iraq and call it "social programs" yet allow US citizens to rot. At that point, Americans need to stand up and fight.

5 will always continue. I don't see this ever changing. I won't expound on my entire feelings on the issue as people would see them as controversial, but that's their problem.

6 is a lie as Bush wants UN support in the form of money and troops, though he still wants total control, proving once again he's unfit for duty and competent of nothing. He* deserves neither their money or troops unless ther UN takes FULL control, and didn't Bush say that Iraqi oil would pay for this war? Why destroy the economy further and avoid their oil?! :shrug: Besides, the way Bush* treated the UN, the UN should be ignoring the US and taking stern actions. If the UN is a failure, they are proving it by not standing up to the lil' fascist bastard in every way, shape, and form.

[Resistance Is Futile]

15. Not in the slightest

Keeping the armed forces tied down in Iraq means that PNAC can't easily attack anyone else.

The costs of rebuilding will serve to further discredit PNAC's war aims and, in the long run, limit the ability of PNAC to conduct further wars.