Gloria
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Sun Nov-02-03 05:14 PM
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Is today's helicopter disaster a turning point??? |
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Edited on Sun Nov-02-03 05:15 PM by Gloria
Frankly, I've been waiting for the first "mass death" incident to occur. Sadly, it happened today. I must admit, that when I woke up to the news on the BBC World Service, I was still shocked.
This is the sort of thing that can't be totally swept under the carpet. It's not one or two deaths hidden on the back pages of the newspaper or the crawl at the bottom of the TV screen.
Does our "leader" finally come out of his bubble and go to a memorial service??? How can he not??? If he does, his image is linked to this sad day. If he doesn't his detachment and lack of feeling speaks even louder.
Today, I was listening to Talking Points on the BBC WS and Iraqi citizens were calling in. The host asked if "ordinary Iraqis" could support the insurgent attacks. One man said, "Sure they can...The Americans have take our jobs, our money..." And there were more callers from Iraq who expressed similarly negative thoughts.
We've stolen Iraqi businesses, resources from the people of that tortured country, we've robbed them of their health and cultural treasures.....and now, the lives of our men and women continue to be stolen by a fool and his greedy mission.
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wuushew
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Sun Nov-02-03 05:17 PM
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Only a beruit style barracks bombing will shift public opinion.
On a side the next polling data will allow me to test a public support hypothesis based on casualty rates.
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Tyler Durden
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Sun Nov-02-03 11:41 PM
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It'll happen. Only a matter of time. The Iraqi (insert your favorite name for our opponents here) are much better armed and organized than the Lebanese were.
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wtmusic
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Sun Nov-02-03 05:17 PM
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2. Could be--I bet it took * down a point |
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Approval is at what, 48%? After the 'Fallujah Massacre' he lost two and never got 'em back.
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Terran
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Sun Nov-02-03 05:18 PM
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It'll be virtually impossible for Bush to remain aloof from this. On some weird level, one death per day is easy to dismiss, but 15 soldiers? in a repeat of Mogadishu? He has to say something. He has to attend a service. It won't look good for him, either way.
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brainshrub
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Sun Nov-02-03 06:02 PM
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hang a left
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Sun Nov-02-03 06:14 PM
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20. 20 were killed today 4 in fallujah, 15 in helicopter and 1 somewhere |
karlschneider
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Sun Nov-02-03 05:19 PM
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4. It sure as hell was for at least 15 families. |
Postman
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Sun Nov-02-03 05:22 PM
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5. Is it "terrorism" when soldiers are attacked? |
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I call it a legitimate military target.
Tragic nonetheless. Fact is this occupation was lost from the getgo.
Big lies to launch it, undermanned to continue it, no post-invasion plan
This is one big political tar-baby and Bush ain't gettin out of this ine unscathed.
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PurityOfEssence
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Sun Nov-02-03 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
29. Ya know, that's just a damned good point |
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Not only that, it's PRECISELY what the Mujahadeen were doing in Afghanistan not so many years ago: using shoulder-mounted light SAMs to shoot down helicopters of the occupying power. Then, they were "freedom fighters", of course. Obviously, this isn't too shocking, but the concept of being "terrorists" when shooting at combat troops in a war zone is ridiculous. Yes, they're guerillas, irregulars, partisans and all sorts of other things, but terrorists?
Every so often you'll catch a reference to "innocent soldiers" (like in the Saudi Arabian bombing a few years back) that's just galling.
We shouldn't be there; it's as simple as that. I'm sorry that my countrymen and women who've elected to serve us all for our protection are now in a war of conquest that really isn't their fault, but a spade's a spade.
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nostamj
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Sun Nov-02-03 05:24 PM
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one interesting thing I picked up today.
the CBC is reporting a "WEEK of Resistance" while the US media talked only about a DAY of Resistance"
if the deaths today were the START of something, then this week could certainly be a tipping point for BushCo and their sick 'war'
i don't think we'll ever know how many died on the chopper today. but if we have sustained double-digit deaths (along with the ongoing double-digit wounded) he's GOT to be in trouble.
the deaths are bad enough, but the story of the wounded needs to get out. esp. following the stories about the warehousing of the wounded and lack of care, decent facilities, etc.
we need to know how many have died of their wounds. that number is (AFAIK) still a mystery.
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Gloria
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Sun Nov-02-03 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
9. Yes, the BBC Talking Points also recapped the terrible WEEK in |
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Iraq...They had a British colonel (I think he was a colonel) on delivering the "but things are better, the Iraqi people were abused for a long time....." etc. etc.... But then came the phone calls from the Iraqis...as well as an American living somewhere in SE Asia who said she felt less safe because of Bush's policies than she had even just after 911....
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nostamj
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Sun Nov-02-03 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
11. CBC reported that this weekend |
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was the START of the Week of Resistance
that's why I fear the news for the rest of the week...
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DUreader
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Sun Nov-02-03 05:25 PM
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7. I suspect not, see if it gets much coverage tommorrow or if |
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as I guess it gets called a crash and is not talked about much
casualties get listed under 'accidental' status and we never hear how
many of the injured subsequently die and how many are paralysed, braindamaged and/or amputees.
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grasswire
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Sun Nov-02-03 05:25 PM
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Let's not talk about this in terms of political benefits. Please.
Let the facts speak for themselves.
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jumptheshadow
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Sun Nov-02-03 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
13. Grasswire, I agree with you |
Deja Q
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Sun Nov-02-03 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
19. In a moral and just society, I'd agree with you. Unfortunately, |
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Sadly, America's been anything BUT that. I'd dare even ask if it was EVER moral or just.
Look how the repukes twisted the Wellstone memorial for their own gain. Norm Coleman even thanked God for winning at the time, which equates thanking God for having Wellstone killed. He even spoke negatively of Wellstone long after his death.
This MUST be maneuvered into a political cause, if not more.
Politics is the only way we can get the idiot* out of power and a semblence of morality created, which would then lead to a solution worth living for. Sorry, but I will not take a break under any circumstance. Bush is maladjusted, if not just plain evil - he ustn't remain in any power of any sort.
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Rose Siding
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Sun Nov-02-03 05:29 PM
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10. Maybe in a horrible way- |
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Fox is running the footage of the jubilant Iraqis over and over. If there is a turning point, it may only make it more likely that the "public" here will see the broader Iraqi public as enemies. To do otherwise would be to admit responsibility for being an aggressive, invading occupying army.
I mourn the loss of lives but how can anyone be surprised that this would happen?
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wuushew
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Sun Nov-02-03 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
12. That would not follow the Vietnam effect... |
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however this is not 1968's media either.
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stopbush
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Sun Nov-02-03 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
23. Lott floated the "mow 'em down" balloon |
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for the bushies this week. That was no accident. Next will come the Cheney pronouncement to "go large," which will mean an escalation of the war.
I fear that we may see horrors from the US side that have made our massacre to date seem insignificant. I can see bush ordering that Tikrit (SH hometown) be levelled with tactical nukes. I can see bush getting support from Israel on this to keep Congress at bay.
In a sense, the worse it gets for the US and the grunts on the ground, the better it gets for the BFEE. The American populace is by and large a cowardly lot of couch potatoes. They'll follow bush to their graves - even send their children to die - as long as they can do it from the comfort of their homes bouyed by the false assurances of their government and the solace they draw from the imaginery sky-being.
I fear the worst is yet to come.
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9215
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Sun Nov-02-03 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #23 |
24. No matter what Bush does it will fail |
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Edited on Sun Nov-02-03 08:42 PM by 9215
Remember somebody said about Vietnam: "We will bomb them back to the stone age".
If this fucking baboon king doesn't learn from this most recent history then fuck him and the assholes who back him.
70% of the American public falsely believe that Saddam was behind 9/11. They see this war in Iraq as a do or die struggle against a mortal enemy. This is one way it differs from Vietnam and Kissinger recently saying that if we leave Iraq the enemy will follow us is fomenting fear out of this ignorance.
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submerged99
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Sun Nov-02-03 05:34 PM
Response to Original message |
14. Only the draft will change opinions |
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I think we are at a point where all of Bush's supporters will support him, no matter how many casualties the U.S army takes. I think the 46-50% of people polled will stay there even if Bush was to drop a bomb on the iraqis or the U.S military was to take another Beirut type blow.
The only way I feel they would change their opinion is if Bush was to reconstitute the draft because then that would mean they could be personally affected. Just my opinion.
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RapidCreek
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Sun Nov-02-03 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
22. Your absolutely correct |
AlinPA
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Sun Nov-02-03 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
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His support is solid with republicans. God, guns and flags.
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jody
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Sun Nov-02-03 05:54 PM
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15. Not a turning point. AWOL and his cabal have risked everything on |
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victory in Iraq and then to bully and intimidate the other ME countries.
They and their colleagues from the Sharon/Likud-Zionist group have nothing to lose. If they don't succeed this time, they can try again in a few years because they control enough votes to pass bipartisan legislation moving them inexorably toward a New World Order.
There will always be a battle between good and evil to control the world. Right now, evil has the high ground.
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leftofthedial
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Sun Nov-02-03 06:03 PM
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just a milestone in the timeline of another escalating Repuke foreign policy disaster.
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Kamika
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Sun Nov-02-03 06:05 PM
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18. no, they are experts at making ppl forget stuff |
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Anyone remember that cia leak? anyone?
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Don_G
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Sun Nov-02-03 06:16 PM
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The stuff Dimbo pulls outrages us, but dosen't make a whit's bit of difference to the average person out there.
It's going to take a spark to set the Country off and much more than the non-news that Dimbo and his Cabinet finds fund-raising to be much more interesting than attending the funerals for the Military that died for Exxon, Texaco and Halliburton.
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kalazh
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Sun Nov-02-03 09:08 PM
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jmowreader
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Sun Nov-02-03 11:04 PM
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It should be, but it won't be.
Bush must but can't pull out. If he doesn't, thousands of our soldiers will eventually die; if he does, his chickenhawk supporters will desert him. How will it look to a guy with a "These Colors Don't Run" bumper sticker on his Hummer to have the guy he supported pull troops out of Iraq? And he needs all of those people if he wants to be reinstalled.
I wouldn't be surprised if he pulls a Reagan and starts another war to take our minds off this one.
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benburch
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Sun Nov-02-03 11:07 PM
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28. Yes, it is a turning point! |
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Here is how I think it will turn; By the end of this week we will be starting up the draft system, and kicking the war into high gear. I hope I am wrong.
-Ben
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nostamj
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Sun Nov-02-03 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
31. bush cannot campaign on a DRAFT |
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not with this QUAGMIRE going on.
there (sadly) will more attacks and (very sadly) this will not be the worst...
a turning point? enough bushies with dead children, no jobs and no future...
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