I imagine the latest reports from Iraq are devastating to the Vietnam vets

[NNN0LHI]

I turned 18 years old in March, 1973 so I was lucky enough to not have to get drafted and go. But I won't forget growing up while waiting for my turn in the barrel. I was too young to really understand death and war at that time. I remember the body counts on the evening news every night, but it really was just numbers to me back then. Kind of like keeping score of a football game. But as years went by I learned to have great admiration for those that were forced to go through that nightmare. And something tells me that many Vietnam vets are beginning to get really pissed off watching this continuing FUBAR appear right before their eyes. And there isn't nothing to do to stop it. Must be frustrating as hell? It is for me.

Don

[liberalhistorian]

1. I'm sure it must be.

At the D.C. march last weekend, I saw many, many Vietnam vets, most with signs saying variations of "This Vietnam vet says U.N. in, U.S. out, NOW", and things like that. I talked to one who said it was really strange for him to be in an actual anti-war protest in D.C., but that he had to do it and he understood the Vietnam anti-war people a lot better now. I'd ask my uncle, a Vietnam vet (served two tours of duty as a Marine), but he really hates to talk about anything to do with Vietnam, even with his wife, so that probably wouldn't be a good idea.

[greatauntoftriplets]

2. I think so as well.

<sigh> The sense of deja vu has to be overwhelming.

[hlthe2b]

3. I don't know about your area, but I see so many Vietnam era

VETS homeless on the street. While there have always been scores out there, it just seems like they are EVERYWHERE on street corners now. So my guess is that they've got tons to pick from, in terms of why they should be frustrated with the Bushies.

So very, very, sad.

[cap]

4. nationwide: about 1/3 of the homeless are Vietnam vets...

eom

[seventhson]

5. Ran into a Vietnam vet friend today and I asked him if he'd heard the news

He said: "You mean from Vietnam?"

I said "Iraq"

"Yeah" he said. "Vietnam."

"It IS Vietnam." he said.

He's in the National Guard now and had rejoined when things were peaceful. He is training the kids that are going off to die.

And he is pissed.

Really pissed.

It gave me hope.

[seventhson]

6. n/t

[DrBB]

7. I was in the last yr of Nam draft too

Turned 18 in '74. Registered fair and square, got my lottery number--360--but by then they were winding it down anyway. Lots of guys from the grades ahead of me went--guys I knew, older brothers of my friends. Some didn't come back.

I'll say one thing. We protested the fucking war. But never, never would we have spat on or disrespected the guys who were coming back. I remember a huge party down at the beach where we all hung out when three guys finished their tours and returned. THere was no emotion there but tears of joy that they had come back alive, and nothing but anxiety and fear for the guys who were still there.

Digression aside, I don't think it's the war itself that's so reminiscent of Viet Nam. I mean, the guerilla dynamic is there, yes, but the scale is nothing like the same. And the fact that there's no draft makes a huge difference too--there isn't the same anxiety level about people getting dragooned into going off to fight a war that increasingly makes no sense to anyone (college kids are said to favor Bush more heavily than older adults).

What IS similar--albeit terrifically compressed in time--is the falsehood, the knowledge that the government is lying about what's going on, lied to get us there, and fighting a dynamic that ultimately favors the insurgents. The propaganda reeks of Viet Nam. Except that it's much more sophisticated. Note too that the press came around to criticizing the war very late in the effort, just as here. People who are surprised at how docile the press has been on Bush and Iraq are acclimated to a post-VN media. Before that Great Disillusionment, the press behaved pretty much like it has been doing with the Flying Chimp.

[rasputin1952]

8. I cannot, nor would not attempt to speak for all Vets...

but I can speak for myself.

When this war first began, I had a burning desire to be there. Not as some kind of hero, but as a mentor, someone that young troops could go to and trust to get them home. I know that every NCO feels like this, it comes with the job. I am far to old to serve now, I would serve in a hospital anyway, (I was a Med Plt Sgt), but inside of me, from my days as a grunt, there lies a deep love for my fellow soldiers.

Every man and woman that has served this country, deserves well respected honor. It is difficult to lose friends and comrades. One minute they are there, and the next; there are boots, a helmet and a weapon. A memorial service for those that fell, 21 gun salute, Taps in the distance. Then it is back to the grind, trying desperately to find those that took a friend and comrade from you. Of course, you never know for sure if the next one you get is the one you want, but lying to oneself in combat is normal procedure.

Most men cannot kill another without remorse. Therefore, you look at the enemy as if they were some vile animal, a scourge to be lifted from the earth. Mom, Apple Pie, The Girl Nextdoor; forget it. The desire to survive outweighs all else. The object is to come home with as many parts still working as possible.

Later, thoughts creep in...was that someones father, brother, son? What might they have become? Was I justified? Where are the MIA's? Are there any still alive, living in a hell that will never end? Does anyone remember?

At night, when it is still and quiet, whispers from the past remind me of the way things were, and the way they should have been. Young men sacrificed on the altar of ideology, with no viable gain. We did little else than take lives...and come home with stories of glory cast in bronze and bullshit. But the real story is etched in Black Marble in DC; 58 thousand +, that shed their blood, lost their lives, for nothing more than what a bunch of scared old men thought was a good idea.

:cry:

:grouphug: for ALL vets.

[Rose Siding]

9. I'm glad you got home

[rasputin1952]

11. I think I understand why my dad...

and my stepdad, (after my dad died), never talked about WWII.

But I don't agree...I think that people need to know that death is the the real result of war. Not just physical death, but the death of the soul, morality and dignity as well. The death of childhood dreams and of people that may have had great places in history if given the chance.

Those that send youth into battle, do not go into the fray themselves, but they claim the glory others earned.

I am glad to be home, I'm glad to be here to welcome home those that have been sent into the fray.

Thank you.

:hug:

[Kanary]

15. once again, Rasputin

I guess I, too, can understand why some would not want to talk about it. I'm not sure it's healthy to keep it jammed inside, but that's not my decision to make.

Many years ago, I was very lucky to have a neighbor who fought in, believe it or not, WWI. Yes, that's the first one. His stories were riveting, and words I will never forget. He told me how they went off, very young, full of energy and so much belief in what they were doing. They came back, and didn't want any part of the victory parades, but were forced to participate. He said they laughed at the whole thing, because they knew what a farce the whole war scenario is. I'm so fortunate to have been able to hear his stories.

I hope that you will, also, share your stories, as much as you can. It is a priceless gift.

Kanary

[rasputin1952]

16. When I was younger, I lived on Long Island, NY...

there was a 4th of July parade, and I met a Vet from the Spanish- American War, I'm not kidding about this. he was with Teddy Roosevelt, as a private, when the went up Kettle Hill, (not San Juan Hill as is popularly believed). We sat around over a few beers, vet to vet, and talked about his experiences. There was a regiment of Black soldiers that gor TR and his boys out of some real trouble. One of the Black Sgts was awarded his 2nd MOH in that fight! Seems as though the Sgt saved a Lt.

TR was probably the last Field Grade officer to raise his own regiment, and this guy, (Wish I could remember his name), was dropped off in Greenport Long Island witht he rest of the troops after the war. I was in Southold, 1 town west of Greenport, and I took him out to the old RR docks. Those guys were left there, because some of them had malaria, and he was one of them. they were there for months with no help. Finally, NY got off its dead butt and got these people home.

I have always found it amazing that once the gunpowder clears, the soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen are so quickly forgotten. This is the travesty all vets face after every war.

:cry:

[Kanary]

18. stories

"There was a regiment of Black soldiers that gor TR and his boys out of some real trouble."

Buffalo soldiers? There's an active reenactment group of Buffalo Soldiers here in Colo. I'm sure they would be interested in this story.

Thanks for sharing. I wish that these stories could be collected in a book. And, keep telling *your* stories, too. You are now the elder the younger ones need to hear.

Kanary

[rasputin1952]

19. Heh...

I have some...but I prefer the humorous ones:eyes:; the others might get me into trouble. :evilgrin:

[Kanary]

12. Rasputin

What you wrote was so profound. Would you mind if I shared it with a friend of mine?

Have you written this to a newspaper?

It's beautiful.

Thank you.

Kanary

[rasputin1952]

14. Thank you...

and by all means, you can use anything you want, although I don't think I am deserving of any notoriety.

:kick:

[9215]

10. Being a Vietnam Era Vet

I see alot of parallels, but the one difference that concerns me is how Americans have been duped into thinking Iraq was/is an "imminent threat". Something like 70% think Saddam was behind 9/11 though this has not been shown to be true. Henry Kissmyassinger tried to capitalize on that ignorance by saying if we left Iraq the "enemy" would follow us.

If Americans can be decieved on such basic facts then the fear associated with their reality deficient perceptions can be manipulated indefinitely and Bush could start another war and play the same game with public opinion. This could lead to an Orwellian police state where dissent is treason with perpetual war=perpetual peace, etc.

The big difference between Iraq and Vietnam then is this "imminent threat" misperception. It is a fight for survival not just against some vague struggle against Communism. During Vietnam there were a few people who commented that if we didn't defeat the Commies there we would have to defeat them here at home someday.

At all costs Bush must be held accountable for the failure in Iraq that inevitably will come. If the BFEE can maintain itself as a viable functioning politico-economic force after this; it would be akin to Hitler surving WWII. If the BFEE is defeated we might be able to investigate Saudi Arabia's role in 9/11 and then trace it back to the BFEE. This would have a dramatic and very positive effect on world peace. Once we start barking up the right tree it won't be long before the crook comes tumbling out.

[Ernesto]

13. I have been around DU from the beginning

And I have always assumed that you (Don) are a viet vet. You seem so well versed in military jargon & issues. I'm supprised by your above statement about missing the party @ RVN........ @ any rate---- You are FUCKING right! Vietnam vets (that I know) are sick in our guts about this piece o shit (aka commander in chief, AWOL coward) that has put our youth into this living hell. Just like Vietnam, CHICKEN HAWKS have made this current waste of lives happen for their personal gain. Forgive my english but the fact is that these neo con war "experts" are all combat inexperienced, coward SOB's. Sure they have their PHD's or whatever, but how many of their children are now in Iraq?.... Keep up the good work Don, I'll be talkin' to ya....... Ernie, USMC, NAM 67-68, TET offensive was a real fun deal. I just wish coward GW Bush could have been there with us. It would have been amusing to see him praying to his god from the bottom of a foxhole while real men were in the thick of the SHIT.

[ShaneGR]

17. Today's tortured soul award goes to Collin Powell

Remember what you said about the US never getting into a war with no defined exit strategy?

Rot in hell Mr. Powell.

[rasputin1952]

20. Right up until Powell went to the UN with that vial...

I thought that he was the one shining star in this administration.

Fool me! Mr. Powell sold his soul along with the rest of that gaggle of goons. Powell had the smarts, and the dignity to overcome this administration, and he let it all go to become one of the soulless bastards that run the country. How truly sad this is. :-(