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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 12:40 AM
Original message
If you're not angry enough yet, read this
Politics are out of place in time of war
By Kathleen Parker

Georgia Democrat Sen. Zell Miller explained his surprising early endorsement of George Bush for 2004 in terms of trust and the future.

The next five years will determine what kind of world his children and grandchildren inherit, he said. And he doesn't "trust" any of the nine
Democratic presidential candidates to secure that future.

Miller is not alone, though some are more sanguine when it comes to evaluating the roster of contenders. Here's a note I got recently from a friend and former Delta Force member, who has been observing American politics from the trenches: "These bastards like Clark and Kerry and that incipient ass, Dean, and Gephardt and Kucinich and that absolute mental midget Sharpton, race baiter, should all be lined up and slapped.

"All this carping and undercutting of our foreign policy -- whatever happened to politics stops at the water's edge? -- is giving strength and hope to our enemies. That makes them fight harder and longer and in the end costs the very lives they claim to care so much about."


more, if you can take it: http://bigjweb.com/artman/publish/article_1602.shtml
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creativelcro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
1. Well
the guy is pretty old... Dementia is kicking in... Seriously... -C
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John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
2. bet that Delta operator was ALL up in arms about the water's edge
when Lott and Delay were up Clinton's ass over Kosovo. Guess Republicans are the only ones allowed to do the killing.
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Military Brat Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
3. The original quote was "lined up and shot"
K. Parker changed it. And no one ever says "lined up and slapped." Dems aren't nearly as stupid as your right-wing fans, Ms. Parker.

Here's the screen shot of the original column: http://makethemaccountable.com/articles/Lined_up_and_shot.htm

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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Even better
Glad to know that someone has a little "discretion." </sarcasm>
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
28. So, Ms. Parker has the journalistic integrity....
to change a quote?

These people are amazing.

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
4. He may be a Delta Force member
but he doesn't seem to understand for some of us, true American patriotism is to never bow to any emperor.
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. are they sure this isn't one of those form letters
.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. could be
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LastKnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
5. careful mr miller...
Edited on Mon Nov-03-03 12:49 AM by LastKnight
your trunk and big ears are starting to show... traitor

-LK
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BillyBlastoff Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Zell has no integrity...
No integrity and should have no credibility. Voting 100% Republican in 2000 should have gotten him shunned by all Democrats. I am ashamed that he represents the Great State of Georgia.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Welcome to DU, Billy
Are you another Georgian (like me)?

Eloriel
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. Hi BillyBlastoff!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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DemmieGal Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
7. Demonizing the Left
Big Deal..it didn't work in the fifties or sixties either.

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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. Hi DemmieGal!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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La_Serpiente Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
8. That's not fair
Edited on Mon Nov-03-03 12:57 AM by La_Serpiente
We have every right to criticize our foreign policy. If it wasn't for the American public being critical of the military's efforts after WW II, the US would have screwed up the reconstruction process in Germany.

Here from Instapundit:

http://www.instapundit.com/archives/012288.php

Here is the entire article from the
Saturday Evening Post, Jan 26, 1946.


Saturday Evening Post
January 26, 1946

How We Botched the German Occupation
By Demaree Bess

Berlin

Everywhere I’ve traveled recently in Germany I’ve run into Americans, ranging from generals down to privates, who ask perplexedly, “What are we Americans supposed to be doing here? Are we going to take over this place and stay here forever?”

Judging by reports received here from the United States, this perplexity of Americans in Germany is matching by the perplexity of Americans at home. We have got into this German job without understanding what we were tackling or why. Imagine how incredulous we would have been if anybody had told us---even so recently as five years ago---that hundreds of thousands of Americans would be camped in the middle of Europe in 1946, completely responsible for the conduct and welfare of approximately 20,000,000 Germans?

How does it happened that even some of our topmost officials in Germany admit that they don’t know what they are doing here? The answer can be expressed, I believe, in one word---secrecy. . . .

Mr. Stimson probably has had more experience in international affairs than any other American. Before being appointed to head the War Department for the second time, he had also served as Secretary of State and had been Governor General of the Philippines. Thus he was familiar with the military requirements, the political implications and the practical problems involved in administering an alien and distant territory under wartime conditions. Mr. Hull, appreciating the value of Mr. Stimson’s experience in world affairs, was inclined to defer to his judgment in most of the matters under dispute. Mr. Morgenthau, on the other hand, gradually became the chief spokesman for the advocates of an American-imposed revolution in Germany.

His so-called Morgenthau plan, which has since been widely publicized, was not just the personal policy of the former Secretary of the Treasury. It combined the ideas of a sizable group of aggressive Americans which included some conservative big businessmen as well as left-wing theorists. The group supporting Mr. Morgenthau’s ideas included Americans of all races, creeds and political beliefs. It is doubtful whether Mr. Morgenthau could recall today the source of some of the most explosive ideas which he gradually adopted.

However that may be, the Cabinet committee soon found itself in disagreement, with Secretaries Stimson and Hull on one side and Mr. Morgenthau on the other. Hints of this disagreement leaked out at the time and the issue was represented as a “hard peace” versus a “soft peace,” but actually that was not the issue at all. In fact, the major disagreement then was over the question of procedure, and did not directly concern long-term economic and financial policies. The three Cabinet members were equally anxious to make sure that Germany should be deprived of the means for waging another war, nut Secretaries Stimson and Hull were determined not to bite off more than we could chew at one time. They wanted to reduce the original occupation plans to the simplest possible form, with three primary objectives in mind: (1) agreement by all the Allies upon a joint occupation; (2) provision of some hope for the German people that they might develop a decent life for themselves once they became completely demilitarized; and (3) the obligation not to burden the American people with more commitments than they might later prove willing to accept.

While these discussions were proceeding, however, Mr. Morgenthau became convinced that we should go into Germany with a complete blueprint, worked out in exhaustive detail, providing for an economic and industrial revolution so drastic that it would affect not only Germany but almost every other country in Europe. He wanted us to adopt this blueprint for ourselves and to use every conceivable means to pressure upon our Allies to get them to accept it. Whenever he was outvoted in the Cabinet committee, he had the immense advantage---as an intimate friend of Franklin D. Roosevelt---of being able to go through the side door of the White House and sell his ideas directly to the President. . . .

The French, unconvinced that the atomic bomb has opened an entirely new era, are insisting upon establishing buffer states between themselves and Germany. To this end, they’re trying to make a friend of the Germans in their zone and to encourage them to organize separatist movements.

The British, conscious, of the broader aspects of Western Europe’s economic situation, are devising schemes to revive German economic life in their zones, particularly in the Ruhr. In order to provide immediately for some of the things which Western Europeans so urgently require, they’re trying to establish some kind of international combine to operate Ruhr industries and coal mines---a proposal which they compare to the Tennessee Valley Authority.

The Russians, grappling with the enormous tasks of reconstructing their own war-wracked homeland, are carrying off from their zone all the machines and tools and animals which they can use in Russia. While the Russians reduce the labor surplus in their zone by sending skilled German workers to Russia, they also encourage the remaining Germans to revive political and economic life with due attention to Russian models.

It is only in the American zone that the “pastoral economy” is emerging, which some Americans had visioned for the whole of Germany. Although the Potsdam Declaration technically superseded the American directive JCS 1067, in practice this directive never has been superseded, so far as Americans are concerned. We still are committed to apply in our zone a blue print which was designed for the whole of Germany, but which was never accepted by any of our Allies. This directive is chiefly concerned with tearing things down rather than building things up, and in the absence of any common policy for the whole of Germany, our particular zone is threatened with “planned chaos.”

No wonder so many Americans are asking, “What are we doing in Germany?” They can see that the Russians and British and French are initiating projects which promise some direct benefits to them in their zones. But when they look at our zone they see only headaches. These peculiar problems of the American zone will be discussed in a subsequent article.


(Sorry, no link)

We didn't start the Marshall Plan until June of 1947. It makes a big difference when we speak out. There were criticism of post-WW II plans in all national newspapers.

After WW II, there was still a Nazi presence. These leftovers took on a anamilistic symbol, the Wolf, and called themselves "Werewolves".

I guess, they would be the modern day terrorists flooding Iraq.
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
10. obvious racist dick
Fault Reverend Al for many things, including resolutely ungrammatical diction, but he's a mighty sharp guy. Smart and mature people realize that those who disagree with them aren't necessarily inferior on all counts.

This guy's an obvious racist, and it's apparent from his hackles being raised by a "race baiter"; obviously, he'd rather "they" stay in their place.
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
24. Not to agree with this guy, but...
...Al was in the "race baiting" biz long before he started trying to be a legitimate politico, and a lot of people don't forget that just because it's inconvenient.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
12. Hmm... don't play politics during "wartime"
This whole attitude, to me, is strong evidence that Bush let 9/11 happen...


whatever happened to politics stops at the water's edge?

Well, whatever happened to NOT FUCKING TAKING A MONTHLONG VACATION IN THE MIDDLE OF A WAR????????

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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #12
25. "whatever happened to politics stops at the water's edge? "
Whatever happened to the guy in the White House not treating the government as his own personal feifdom?
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #12
31. Or, my favorite ... lying us into a war for political reasons in the 1st
place, then, by default, you are a "wartime" pResident, and, conveniently, now can't be criticized OR SCRUTINIZED - for being the lying war profiteering criminal that you are! Pure genius!

And they cay bunkerboy is dumb!
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
14. my country, right or wrong . . .
when it's right, keep it right; when it's wrong, set it right . . .
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auH2Olost Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
16. I can't be angry at a Delta Force member
You don't get to be a Delta Force member unless you know of that you do and speak. Sorry...find a better scapegoat.
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #16
26. Depends on what he knows...
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #16
32. I certainly can!
You get to be a "delta force member" and successful in ANY military position by BLINDLY following orders! Park mouth and brain in ass and do and parrot whatever you are told! In this case, the "squeaky wheel" doesn't get the oil, it gets drummed out of the service with a dishonerable discharge!
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. The only thing following orders BLINDLY will get you is dead.
However, that said, just being Delta doesn't make Zell's alleged pen pal a geoploitical or constitutional savant, either.
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coda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #16
34. He wasn't "scapegoating", the Delta Force member.

He was referring to column(ist).
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
17. Well, let's just cancel the election then
There must be no politics in war, so why have elections, which are entirely about politics?

By Parrker's rule, elections should not have been held in 1812, 1864, 1944, 1964, 1968 and 1972.

She can go to hell. I will roll right over her and her simpering whining as I attack this Administration with increasing intensity in the nest 12 months.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. Don't forget 1952
in the midst of the Korean War
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. And don't forget...
The Continental Congress tried to fire Washington in the middle of the Revolution.

Wilson was savaged for WWI.

Roosevelt and Truman were savaged by Republicans during WWII.

Johnson and Nixon were savaged over Viet Nam.

Reagan was slammed over Dominica.

Clinton was savaged over Haiti and Kosovo.

There were probably more.

The idea of shutting up during a war means any asshole can go out and start a war to shut people up.

Where are all the "Wag the Dog" comments I heard during Kosovo or Clinton's Iraq bombings?

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Dr Satan Donating Member (183 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 07:09 AM
Response to Original message
20. I don't trust 7 of the 9
but for different reasons than this guy.
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OldSoldier Donating Member (982 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
21. She's still tying Saddam to 9/11
"The war was necessary...as a response to 9/11, even absent a group hug between al-Qaeda and the Saddamites."

Uhh...remember the old joke about the sensitive kid? (For those who don't, a kid and his mom came to the classroom one day. "This is John," she said to the teacher. "We just moved to town, so he'll be in this class. John is a very sensitive child, so don't punish him. If he does something wrong, just beat the child sitting next to him, and John will straighten right out.") Iraq seems to have taken on the role of the child sitting next to John. Saudi Arabia was the country most responsible for 9/11, but we can't do anything to them because they're so sensitive, so we beat Iraq up as a lesson to the Saudi sheikhs. I bet they're just quaking in their boots now!

(Do Saudis wear boots? Oh, nevermind.)

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coda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #21
35. LOL
Thanks for that, OldSoldier. :thumbsup:
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Michael Harrington Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
22. This whole thing reads like...
One of Mike Barnacle's invented-out-of-the-whole-cloth columns.
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coda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
27. Politics are out of place in time of war (without end)
Edited on Mon Nov-03-03 09:15 AM by coda
She means no dissent. Ever. Teddy Roosevelt and Thomas Jefferson have strong words for that kind of cowardice.

Landing on the USS Showboat was politics and there's dozens more of examples of the same kind of crap.

George Bush has 0 vetos after 3 years.

Roosevelt had hundreds and that with a heavily Democratic controlled Congress.

Government is politics. What a stupid premise and dishonest as well.

Would she ever post a comment from a soldier talking about lining up Republican leaders to be shot? (a soldier that she finally added had just lost a friend). None of the candidates had any input as to the planning of this war and nor was it them saying "Bring it on!" As far as "the water's edge", just read some of *'s comments at Camp Bondsteel in Kossovo.

George and Dick said "Help is on the way!" and then preceded to cut vet benefits and attempted to cut hazardous pay to those in Iraq.

Smells like politics to me.


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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
30. Zell is a BFEE turd.
Zell Miller slammed then-US Rep Cynthia McKinney for doubting the White House version of what it knew regarding 9-11. So he's endorsing George "Trust Me" Bush? No big deal: One lying so-and-so endorsing another liar. Zell may call himself a Democrat, but he's nothing more than a BFEE mole in the Democratic Party.

http://www.ratical.org/co-globalize/CynthiaMcKinney/news/pr020628.htm

What Cynthia said:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/04.13A.Extend.Probe.htm

FUCK YOU, ZELL MILLER!
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
33. "...lined up and shot."
Yep, that's how fascists deal with dissent. I'll bet he's got an Ultimate Solution for liberals, too.

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Hong Kong Cavalier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
37. Gee, if I read the original article correctly,
It looks like Parker is quoting someone who advocates the assassination of federal employees. Isn't that punishable by a looooooong prison sentence?
I don't care if it was a "quote from a friend", it's still advocating violence towards our candidates. Someone should be investigating this.
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