Which description best matches your current opinion of Bill Clinton?

[RichM]

Clinton is very popular here, referred to affectionately by many DUers as 'The Big Dog.' I'm curious to see a breakdown of current attitudes towards him.

I saw him on C-Span over the weekend (the actual event was taped last Monday at the Kennedy Center in DC). It was a gala celebration of something or other, starring the 2 Clintons & the 2 Senators Dole. They all frolicked & cavorted happily on stage, exchanging cordial banter. Senator Bob Dole was extremely witty.

When "The Big Dog" spoke, he spoke with his usual blend of intelligence & charm. However, he spoke of a world that doesn't really exist. In this world, Republicans and Democrats "work together" to produce legislation that improves the health of starving children in Africa. In this world, there are no stolen elections or illegal wars of aggression launched by the American oligarchy. There are no Enrons greasing the way for spoiled brats to be appointed president by Daddy's friends. Even when Clinton touched on the subject of the "differing standards" that the media held him to, as compared with Bushler, & he specifically mentioned the Whitewater investigation, he was chuckling merrily & oozing charm. No hard feelings, you know -- it was all in good fun.

Clinton has not said squat against the war or occupation. Isn't that interesting? What is the matter with him? // But one subject he did indeed "speak out" on, was last summer's YellowcakeGate. He called in to Larry King Live, on the occasion of Sen. Bob Dole's B-day, on a day when the media was just beginning to ask a lot of hot questions about the SOTU Nigergate Lie Scandal. He went to bat for Bushler, saying that all presidents are under a lot of pressure, etc, & he didn't think the little mistake about the 16 words was a very big deal. After that, the issue promptly disappeared from the media radar screen.

How would you categorize your current feelings about this great hero of the Democratic Party?

[quinnox]

1. I voted for the first choice but it was mild for my

taste. I am an unabashed Clinton lover, Hillary too (whom I think might just become the first woman prez ever) and I would say Bill Clinton was the best president since Roosevelt.

[Gman]

32. BC & FDR

are the two greatest presidents of the 20th century.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

36. No way. I'll take Truman and LBJ and maybe even Carter over Clinton anyday

And what exactly has Hillary Clinton done, except for vote for the IWR and the PATRIOT Act?

[Clark Can WIN]

2. I always liked him and I still do

He wasn't perfect but the fast track to hell we are on right now makes him look like a saint.

[grok]

10. One caveat....

Remember, we lost the house AND senate under his watch. He was absolutely GREAT at maintaining the White house under our control. But was it worth losing both houses? I am not entirely blaming him, but his centrist policies might have had something to do with it. But I really can't explain it WHY we lost so much power under his guidance. Particularly when the economy did so well. Or was it the best we could have done?

Grok

[Zero Gravitas]

23. Agreed

That last three years have done nothing but increase my opinion of the Last Elected President.

[gottaB]

3. Missing Option

"I thought he was a quasi-Republican sellout even while in office, but since Bush took over I realize that I was wrong."

[RichM]

12. Interesting point. I wish I'd thought of that.

I was just trying to create a few choices that spanned a wide range, but overlooked that one.

[elfwitch]

4. Love Bill

Not a day goes by that I don't miss Bill. I think, in spite of the oppositions attempts to completely derail him, that he did a great job in office. He likes burgers. I like burgers. He likes sex. I like sex. I always felt, to sme degree, that he at least remembered what it was like to be a poor common schlub.

[Plaid Adder]

5. "Quasi-Republican" is going too far.

But he disappointed me early and often.

I have been flamed on DU for saying that before and I will no doubt be flamed for saying it again. But he made a lot of promises that he couldn't keep and although I voted for him twice, the second time it was without the enthusiasm that I brought to the first race.

In the past three years, actually, my opinion of him has improved, simply because what replaced him is so utterly Godawful. But I never believed that he walked on water.

Even when he was most pissing me off, though, I have to say that I retained some affection for the guy. And the Lewinsky crap actually made me more attached to him, because as much of a putz as the facts made him out to be, it was more disgusting to see everyone persecuting him over something so stupid.

You can get out the weenies now, because the flames are about to leap. But that's how I felt about him, and I've always felt like one ought to be able to say that here without being burnt at the stake for heresy.

Crackle crackle,

The Plaid Adder

[RichM]

21. Hey, let's hear it for heresy!

I've always felt that heresy is woefully underappreciated.

[JVS]

27. heretic

:-)

[Atlant]

42. What Plaid Adder said (and given the choices, I didn't vote) (NT)

[Mairead]

54. No flames from me...though I assess him much lower than you.

If you look at the sum of what he did, it seems pretty clear to me that he was not good for us except in an almost trivial way. I'd liken it to paying someone a good salary while secretly making them a guinea pig for atomic radiation tests: the money eventually stops, but the cancers don't.

[ulysses]

59. yup

I guess he hasn't improved as much in my mind by comparison with Bush, but otherwise the snake speaks my mind.

[JVS]

6. #2

[RichM]

7. To what factors do people attribute his lack of opposition to the war?

Is it simply the desire to "stay out of controversy" -- ie, deference to the idea that it's just not his place to criticize the incumbent president?

Does he "secretly" oppose the war? After all, he opposed Vietnam in his student days.

:shrug:

[DemExpat]

14. I wonder about this as well.....is it etiquette?

Something NOT DONE?
Has it something to do with his wife's position?

Is it his eternal optimism to always look to the present and future for solutions and not to the mistakes?

Don't know and wish he'd be a bit more vocally critical, but I still love the man and miss his presidency.

DemEx

[Eloriel]

56. He CAN'T criticize the war

There was soome "get Saddam" resolution or something he signed in 1998. (Somebody help me with the details.) Saddam was baaaaad. The Repugs are all the time throwing up to us that Clinton thught Saddam needed to be overthrown.

Eloriel

[RandomUser]

15. He criticized the war before it began.

Perhaps he hasn't been as vocal as you would like, but he did oppose the war before it began.

Traditionally, there is an unspoken code of ethics where the past presidents try to stay out of the way of the current office holder and let him do his job without virulent criticism. It's a mark of respect because they've held the office and know the pressures, and know that former presidents can bring a lot of media weight to bear, and know that they wouldn't have wanted to be in that position. The whole golden rule thing of treating others the way you would have wanted to be treated in office. If you've been president, you probably know you wouldn't have wanted your predecessors out there bashing you while you were in office.

The only past president who hasn't kept a low profile in criticism out of respect I think is Carter.

[Zero Gravitas]

25. Good point

and I'm sure the Monkey-King will classlessly and publicly whine about what a bad job his replacement is doing starting 5 minutes after President Dean/Clark/Kerry is sworn in on Jan 20, 2005.

[CWebster]

16. He greased the wheels

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/02/magazine/02IRAQ.html

[dawgman]

30. He is still making butt loads of money and

this pres. has done nothing to prevent that. Perhaps he thinks that speaking out against the pres. would be considered a sign of bitterness and sour grapes. Or perhaps he is just like all the resto of the goddam DLC-DNC centrist wish I was a repub. dems that currently are overseeing the downfall of a once great party.

[lovedems]

44. And like it or not, anything he says for or against

has the potential to effect Hillary. I am sure he is just keeping his opinions low right now because it is a hot topic and his wife is in the senate. We all know how bad a backlash can be.

[polpilot]

61. He was definitely for the war and stood with Blair to show publicly

his support. A leader leads...always. He just doesn't give a damn as long as the bombs aren't falling near him.

He just wants to keep getting invited to the party. Republican Party or Demo Party. I've seen no change in him since his Arkansas days.

Dean '04...

[RandomUser]

8. Before the war, Clinton said attacking Iraq was a mistake

He and Dole sparred on 60 mins. Clinton said that if Saddam had WMDs, attacking him would be the stupidest thing because it would make him more likely to use them.

[LittleApple81]

9. Well, I could not choose any.

He was a good president, was able to get the votes by attracting the middle-repugs, is extremely intelligence and witty, besides being sexy.

Too convervative for my taste in some issues, but compared to the troglodytes who stole power in 2000 he is a leftist.

However, he is TOO human (and who I am to criticize: I smoke). I couldn't believe he allowed a "fleeting" pleasure to interfere with his mission and duty. This put him and all Democrats at risk, and he lost respect from his friends and allies.

[mhr]

11. Voted For Him Twice! He Was The Best Republican President Ever

eom

[kyrasdad]

13. I love Bill

and I miss him terribly. Oh how I wish he could run again. He really got this country on the right track, gave people who didn't have a voice a loud one, and made everyone feel that they were worthy, important and able to share in the American dream. That's why the Repugs HATED him so much... he put alot of people on equal par to them, and they HATED it.

[Fish Eye]

17. I had a dream about Clinton and gore last night!!!!

If y'all interested I will expound....

[RichM]

18. Sure, go ahead.

Is it 'G' rated?

[Fish Eye]

41. pg-13

I found myself in an old mansion on a cliff overlooking the sea...stormy day grey clouds etc... I was following a guy who I recognized as Al Gore...I wanted to ask him a question but he kept talking about his friend that he wanted me to meet...we walked through the house and we finally made it to a lounge/ game room..pool table and fireplace way posh with big leather chairs etc... Bill was sitting in a chair and I went over to ask him the question I wanted to ask Al..before I could ask him the question he said " it is not always as it seems and that the battle always continues." He then hollared "Al" and Gore came back into the rome with beer and cocktail weinies...then things got wierd...I had visions of grand schemes and plots that would make the tin foil hats melt...but through it all I felt unafraid and safe..then the dream turned into something a bit more r-x rated(yes monica showed up)....

All in all I would have to say that my dream did change my overall opinion of All and Bill. from not so good to a guarded respect...they are both very intelligent but I feel that overall they are not bad guys..

I have never dreamed about a political figure before last night

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

19. Four letters made me vote 2 instead of 1

D M C A

[Ficus]

20. What specific

things did Bill Clinton do that was so great?

Kosovo? Ending "welfare as we know it?" Stop Al Qaeda after bombings attacking Americans in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and Africa?

Besides saying "we had a great economy" what exactly did he do that makes him such a god? (besides we as democrats have no one to look up to since Jimmy Carter)

[Book Lover]

22. Untrustworthy, but he was ours

I have given up on voting for people who hew to my beliefs - we are living in the world of the Guelphs and Ghibellines. Bill was the Democrat, and as such, he had to toe at least a certain amount of the line (forgive my metaphor mangling).

[Snow]

24. While I agree with the reasons people express for liking him,

I have great difficulty with both welfare reform and the war on drugs. In retrospect, those were not nearly as harmful as the current criminals, but both were terrible policies that harmed the most vulnerable sectors of our population greatly - and continue to do so. Democrats don't do things like that.
Also, his health reform policy, although it got Newt-stomped, did not go nearly far enough in trying to reform things.....although if it had been enacted, we would not have nearly the mess we currently possess.

[birdman]

26. I've always been ambivalent about Clinton

Having him in office for 8 years was certainly better
than having a Republican. But his biggest contribution
was holding back the worst excesses of the right wing.

His incompetent bungling of the national health care issue
set America's most neeeded social reform back 20 years. He
turned his back on gay members of the military when he started to get
flack from the right wing. He abandoned the Democratic party's
60 year committment to the poor when he signed onto welfare reform
(as an ex-socialworker that was a deal breaker for me - I voted for
Nader in '96). Finally he endangered his whole career and had the
party on the defensive for a year so he could get BJ's from a star-struck valley girl. He then told his staff members that it wasn't true and sent them out to defend him against charges he knew to be
valid.


Am I surprised that he's not opposing the war. No I'm not. I'm
sure he and Mrs. Clinton coordinated their strategy on this and felt
supporting the war was the safe political choice.

Bill and Hill are about Bill and Hill. They always have been.

[RichM]

33. Well I'll be darned.

I disagree with you so often, on so many things -- but I could have written your post #26 myself, without changing a single word. In fact, I also voted for Nader in '96, for exactly the reason you cite. It was the only time in my life I didn't vote for the Democratic candidate for president - so far.

[birdman]

38. Our disagreements are more strategic

than philosophical.

'96 was the only time in my life that I didn't vote
for the Democrat.

[Character Assassin]

40. Let's not forget his two-fisted enjoyment of further prosecuting the WOD

That's always a winner with the folks back home.

[mandyky]

28. I voted for the 2nd choice

but really that does not quite do it either. A mixture of 1 and 2, and also a bit of anger at him and how because of his "dalliance" with Miss Monica, all of us Dems are called liars and worse.

On that Dole / Clinton thing on CSpan, he came across as not caring the evil chimpy has wrought on our country. Maybe not caring are the wrong words - out of touch maybe.

[MODemocrat]

29. Bill Clinton equals strength and hope to me

Even now, when I see him on television, or read something positive about him on the Internet, it lifts my spirits and really brightens my outlook. :bounce: :thumbsup: B-)

[in_cog_ni_to]

31. I cannot tell a lie.

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Bill Clinton. He is, without a doubt, one of the smartest Presidents we have ever had.

Now we're stuck with that brainless wonder. :mad:

[ramapo]

34. No vote

Clinton was so intelligent but such an idiot. Monica was only the highlight. He came nowhere near his potential. He gave the Republicans so much ammunition. He was a political genius while making such incredibly large screwups (health care #1). He left the Democratic Party in worse shape than he found it.

[Bushknew]

35. The big dog was a big disappointment when he

supported BushÕs 16 words and when he supported NAFTA.

[Kolesar]

72. NAFTA--Send the jobs to where organizing workers is illegal

Send the jobs to where the streams run foul with chemicals and mangy dogs lap at the poisonous froth on the periphery of a squalid ghetto.

It sure as heck made the corporate earnings boom in the 1990s, though!

[Wednesdays]

37. I picked the 1st choice.

It's all too easy to "Monday Morning Quarterback" about his time in office. I think he did quite well, given the circumstances.

[The Magistrate]

39. President Clinton Is A Great President

He would have my vote, and eagerly, could he seek the office again.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[CWebster]

43. So Rich

Hope you are enjoying the big dawg luv in.

need cynical reassurance? That's what you get for asking. It is enough to make you kak.

;-)

[dawgman]

46. see post 30

[CWebster]

48. All except dawgman

of course.

;-)

[dawgman]

50. of course :)

[RichM]

51. Yeah, heh...

I figured a majority would go for the love-in option. However, the fact that about 40% didn't go for it, I find sort of encouraging! ;-)

Listening to Clinton at that C-Span event was kind of surreal. He talks so purty, you know. All that slobber about helping the poor children in Africa, & America being the beacon of hope & freedom, & Republicans and Democrats working earnestly together to build a better world... It was beautiful -- except, of course, that it was completely divorced from reality.

Often the camera cut away & panned to the audience. They were all sitting there with admiring warm gazes upon their innocent little faces. Everyone laughed heartily at all Clinton's jokes. He was seducing all of them -- very successfully. It was disgusting. :puke::puke:

:-)

[NeonLX]

45. Well, I thought he was somewhat of a sellout, but...

...damn, I'd give my eyeteeth to have him back in office! The past three years have horrified me beyond anything I thought was possible.

[sandnsea]

47. Quasi-Republican which is what the people want

Or at least what they think they want. I thought he did a good job of trying to move forward, while actually NOT giving away the whole store. I hate to think where we'd be with a full Republican White House and Congress since 1992.

[dawgman]

49. if that had been the case it would have been since

1980 with only a one term break since '68.

[MadHound]

52. Clinton was the best Republican President we've ever had

Unfortunately he was supposed to be a Democrat, perhaps he forgot that notion somewhere along the way.

People around here love to talk about the "peace and prosperity" that Clinton brought about, but if you look closely, the reality belies the image. In terms of peace, well, under Clinton we killed 400,000 Iraqis through neglect, starvation, or outright thrice a week bombings. Add to that the aspirin factory, some missteps and potshots in Kosovo, and that peace starts to look a little violent. Yes, Clinton didn't leave any American behind, and few soldiers lost their lives, but isn't the live of an innocent Iraqi child just as valuable as that of an American soldier?

Looking at the prosperity part of that equation is as equally disheartening, if not more so. Under Clinton the US standard of living fell by 3.1% per year. Under Clinton the gap between the rich and the rest of us grew to historically record highs. Yes, under Clinton many jobs were created. Unfortunatly they were mostly McJobs and were quite needed, since Clinton had started shipping out all of the well paying manufacturing jobs with his signing of NAFTA. And speaking of NAFTA, how do you like having our nations sovereignty compromised with Clinton's NAFTA. Don't believe me? Go check out Chapter 11 of the NAFTA treaty. Clinton signed our sovereignty away.

Then there were the misc. things like H-1B visas(kiss that high tech boom away, its going to India), WTO, '96 Telecom Act, the ratcheting up of the War on Drugs, welfare "reform"(and I thought Dems were known for their compassion), and ooo ooo, soft money campaign contributions. Boy, talk about letting government be sold to the highest bidder, soft money just throws our government into the corporations pocket. Yes, both 'Pugs and Dems know that soft money is not just immoral, but also illegal and possibly unconstitutional. But are they going to blow the whistle? Hell know, they're too busy raking in the dough. Thanks Mr. Clinton, instead of government of the people, by the people and for the people, it is now government for the corporations. And if this trend continues, it will be government by and of the corporations too. "'Scuse me Mr. Chairman, I'd like to recognize the Senator from Nike" All thanks to Clinton's bright idea of soft money.

Yes, I realize that Clinton wasn't as intense as Bush is, just as the current Dems aren't as bad as the 'Pugs. But both are headed for that cliff edge. Bush and the 'Pugs will just get us there sooner.

[jonnyblitz]

55. exactly n/t

[dolstein]

62. Which explains why the Republicans loved Clinton so much

Yeah, right.

Sorry, but anyone who thinks Clinton was a Republican is probably so far to the left that they think Fidel Castro's a New Deal Democrat.

[jonnyblitz]

70. no its because the republicans are so far to the right

tney think Clinton was/is a lefty...good try though.

[Piperay]

53. I LOVE the Big Dog...

I am disappointed in his bad judgement with Monica but the good still outweighs the stupidity of his actions.

[Spirochete]

57. There were a number of things I didn't like about him

all of which have been mentioned in this thread. But there's nothing that can make him look better in comparison, than being in the middle of a Bush sandwich.

[goobergunch]

58. There should be a fourth option

"I wasn't a big fan of Clinton when he was in office, but have grown to realize that he wasn't so bad during the Residency."

[Padraig18]

60. Bill Clinton was...

... a good, solid, centrist President, not on the caliber of Truman, FDR or Lincoln, but an amiable, competent 'technocrat with a good heart'. He had that unique ability to communicate with America about issues that mattered to us personally, and speak in a manner that led us to feel as though he were addressing us as individuals about whom he cared for deeply.

My affection for him grows daily, in light of the horror that is the * administration.

[saoirse]

63. 9/11 and Iraq would never have happened with Clinton in office

And thousands of people who are now dead would be alive today.

[saoirse]

64. 9/11 and Iraq would never have happened with Clinton in office

And thousands of people who are now dead would be alive today.

[Undemcided]

65. Iraq maybe ...

But I don't think much could have stopped 911. They were a cock hair away from bringing down one of the buildings in 1993.

[saoirse]

71. My rationale

For starters, is that Clinton would not have told the FBI to back off investigating the bin-Ladens in the months before 9/11, and would have acted on the clear warnings presented in the months before the attacks (remember Colleen Rowley?).

And the Big Dog wouldn't have been on vacation at the ranch in Crawford the month before the attacks either.

[Zynx]

66. There was a time when I really supported Bill, but that time is over.

I look at how the Democratic party as a whole has performed since he took office and the party for that matter. We have to realize that we went from having majorities in both houses to have minorities that don't look like they will reverse themselves anytime soon. We have to realize that we went from dominating governorships and state legislatures to being crushed and having a minority in state legislatures for the first time since 1954. We have to realize that our party is now being lead by big corporate and trial lawyer interests rather than the people in our quest for dollars. I wonder, "What did Bill Clinton do for the Democratic party?" and the answer is that he has crushed it. We no longer know what we stand for.

[mvd]

67. The results say it all..

I'm definitely a liberal (scored Economic Left/Right: -6.12,
Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.21 the political compass site, and I thought those numbers would be even lower,) so Clinton did some things I disagreed with. I'm also still seething about the fact he gave his tormenters ammunition. I mean I don't like Bush's personality, but I hate him mostly for what he's done to this country. The right wing hated Clinton's every being and did not have the country's best interests at heart. How could such an intelligent man be so stupid? Still, I felt very comfortable with Clinton, thought he was a real leader, thought he respected our rights, and the country was very prosperous. I voted that he did a good job.

[Darranar]

68. None of the above...

I disagreed with several of the things he did - NAFTA, welfare "reform", his handling of Kosovo - but I think the main problem with the Clinton years is that whenever he wanted to accomplish something, he was hounded conservatives and right-wingers, both in Congress and in the media. Had this not happened we would have a President Gore who would have won by a massive margin, and this country and the world would be a far better place.

[KoKo]

69. It's hard to really know what I think about him anymore. The FCC Giveaway

plus NAFTA when he "walked in the door." Now the "revisionist" Dems are at his throat to join the Repugs who were after him the minute he stepped in the WH door.

Is he a "beleagerd" Dem Compromiser? A "Mixed Bag" of plus/minus? or a DLC/REPUG "put up job?"

I honestly have to "Move On" from this. It tears me apart.

But, I did vote your poll.