Hmmmm, did Al Sharpton disregard Buddhists with his ignorant comment?

[mzmolly]

"Candidate and civil rights activist Al Sharpton, who has accused Dean of having an "anti-black agenda," said he was "surprised and disturbed" by the Confederate flag remark. "If I said I wanted to be the candidate for people that ride around with helmets and swastikas, I would be asked to leave," Sharpton said."

I must admit, I was ignorant about this until just moments ago myself.

I associated the swastika with Nazi's alone.

http://www.heathenworld.com/swastika/why.html

http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/ctg/swas.htm

Perhaps some buddhists here can shed some light? Thanks!

The original post said 'did Sharpton insult' in stead of did Sharpton 'disregard' ... I changed the title after being educated here. Thanks for the great feedback.

[mainegreen]

1. Churches in Europe

Many of the old churches in Europe have swastikas on them around the doors, usually going the other way though. Its definitly a good luck thing.

[Walt Starr]

2. My wife and I have an antique British Officer's campaign chest

It was made in India by Hindus. There are swastikas all over it.

The thing is, the swastikas are all going in the correct direction. Nazi swastikas are backwards.

The Hindus knew all throughout WWII, the nazis were going to lose. Their main symbol was one of bad luck rather than the proper, good luck swastika.

[elcondor]

3. Well, the Buddhists I know

wouldn't be offended by his comments because they don't "ride around with helmets . . ."--which clearly refers to Nazis and not Buddhists.

Although the swastika is an ancient symbol of peace to many cultures, including Buddhism, the Nazis hijacked it. Nowadays, to most people, when they see a swastika, it has a totally different meaning.

[maha]

47. Hindu symbol turned backwards.

The Nazi symbol is an old Hindu-Buddhist symbol "flopped" as they say in the print biz.

[LuminousX]

4. I wonder if Sharpton ever saw "American History X"

That movie proved one amazing point, we aren't going to change anyone's attitudes without reaching out to them first.

[Yupster]

5. When I went to New Mexico State Un. in 1981,

the Yearbook was called the Swastika. It was changed while I was there.

[Character Assassin]

You can't insult a buddhist.

To my experience.

[mzmolly]

16. Good to know....

Thanks ;)

[Kusala]

17. taking offense would be bad practice

being offended is identifying with a self.

you can't offend a good buddhist.

[mzmolly]

19. I'm learning much. We could all take lessons from 'good buddhists'...

:)

[Xandor]

6. Did he insult Buddhists?...

Probably not. Even if Al's statement could be construed as an unintentional swipe, Buddhists are not easily insulted by ignorant comments. They've learned to accept them as part of the deluded world at large.

[mzmolly]

11. Interesting thought, I think many could learn from that additude.

Thanks ;)

[quinnox]

7. This wins

in my book for dumbest post of the day.

[mzmolly]

9. I'd say your post is the most insensitive post of the day.

The Swastika may not have meaning to you, but apparently it does to many, and Sharpton should be made aware of his own hypocrisy.

Hey, do me a favor, don't kick posts you think are 'dumb' it only keeps them on top.

[quinnox]

13. Well, no offense

but post #3 nailed the reason why I think it's a dumb post. And don't take it personally, everyone makes dumb posts from time to time, even me.

[mzmolly]

18. Well considering the hype over other recent comments *made by Al*

himself, I'd say it's noteworthy. I saw it as an opportunity to educate on this issue, as I was ingorant about it as well. :shrug:

[htuttle]

14. The Swastika was falling out of use well before the '40's

The only place I know of that was still using it even at that point in a Buddhist context was on a old Tokyo map I've seen on the net.

A far, far more common symbol for Buddhists is the 8-spoked wheel, or a bell or 'diamond dagger-thing' (if Tibetan). (or better yet...no symbol at all!).

Finally, if a Buddhist was insulted due to someone 'smearing' one of their physical symbols, they wouldn't be a very good Buddhist.

Q: What is the true meaning of the Buddha Nature?
A: Five Pounds of Flax!

So no, I don't think Sharpton is a hypocrite in this regard.

[mzmolly]

21. Well, he's either a hypocrite or very educated about Buddhism...?

;)

[Bandit]

48. I was in Viet Nam in late sixties and the Swastika was EVERYWHERE

It was all over the country. It was my first occasion to learn that it wasn't associated with the Nazis. Since then though I have lost track and it could be that Buddhists no longer consider it a holy symbol.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

12. I agree and I am alerting this total waste of board space

good lord. :eyes:

[mzmolly]

15. Well, I imagine you will. A good point for Dean never goes un-alerted

now does it?

It will be interesting to see what the mods decide today. :shrug:

[ParanoidPat]

24. A good point for Dean?

I would guess that the Reverend Al Sharpton would know a little about Buddhism, him being 'in the business' of things spiritual and all. You yourself admitted your ignorance on the difference between the Buddhist svastika and the German swastika but I can hardly see how your labeling Al's remark as "ignorant" is in any way a "good point" for Dean. :shrug:
This original post does come off as flame bait. :evilfrown:

[mzmolly]

33. If the 'good rev' knew a little about Buddhism, he should have thought

more carefully before using the 'svastika' or 'swastika' to make a point about intolerance.

I dont feel my post was flame bait at all, it is a reasonable question under the circumstances.

[ParanoidPat]

42. Point well taken......

.....perhaps we need to dump all these bozo's and find a good Buddhist candidate! :evilgrin:

ABBB
Any Buddhist Beats Bush*
:kick:

[mzmolly]

44. Now that I could get excited about!!!

he he :thumbsup:

[DuctapeFatwa]

8. I called the local Buddhists for Sharpton office and they said no

nt

[mzmolly]

10. Oh, they must represent all Buddists. Just like Sharpton represents all

African Americans.

[ParanoidPat]

23. LOL! Technically yes, they speak for all Buddhists.....

....since a Buddhist knows that we are all one.
It's a religion not a race. A skin color in common does not mean a commonly held set of beliefs where as a religion......
I hope that helps to enlighten you. :)

Oh, by the way it's spelled svastika when referring to the Buddhist symbol.

[mzmolly]

28. Ah, thanks...

I do realize it's a religion, but I honestly thought the poster was joking and being sarcastic LOL. I can't imagine too many "local Buddhists for Sharpton offices" KWIM? Perhaps I'm just a bit gun shy these days. :shrug: I know we dont have such an organization in my state ;)

However, Judaism is a religion as well, and Sharptons comments were a parallel to Nazi Germany and the persecution of Jews so? I thought it somewhat related.

[DrWeird]

26. Fair enough, I called up the Buddhists For Hitler.

They say this is a stupid thread.

[mzmolly]

29. So sorry you dont care for the subject matter..

I found the numerous threads with thousands of posts about Deans 'confederate flag' remarks quite stupid myself.

[dkamin]

20. Buddhists

a) the swastika is still in use, especially in cemetaries and temples. obviously, it's a different swastika with different meanings.
b) i contacted the local Buddhist temple, and they just issued a fatwa.

[Speck Tater]

22. Most Buddhists, myself included, are not insultable.

nt

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mzmolly]

30. Does this standard apply to Dean ?

Allow me to rephrase in the context of his statment:

"A reasonable person would understand that Dean was referring to the Republican voters in the South, and that he meant no offense to POC. Any person who states that Dean's comments were anti-black, is either being unreasonable or intentionally obtuse."

[Cheswick2.0]

40. your arguement is just plain lame, sorry

Dean made a stupid comment. If he meant republican voters in the south he should have phrased it that way. The confederate flag is a racist symbol and what he should have said is that he "wanted to be the candidate of those ready and willing to put down that symbol and join the rest of us in the fight for the poor and middle class."

What Sharpton said was absolutely correct.

[mzmolly]

45. Cheswick, the CFB is a symbol with different meanings to different people

much like were learning here about the 'swastika' or 'svastika.' What Sharpton said was a hypocritical response to his personal vendetta against Jesse Jackson Jr. Dean made these comments since he began campaigning and they were'nt 'anti-black' until Dean was endorsed by Congressmen Jackson.

It's really a shame because Al restored a bit of integrity up till this.

He lectured other candidates to 'remember who the real enemy is, and stop criticizing one another'... I think he should take his own advice.

However, I dont want this thread to turn into debate about the CFB issue, because it's a different subject really.

[RichardRay]

27. The svastika in history and Buddhist views on insults, anger and patience

For a quick overview of the s(v)(w)astika in Buddhism, Hinduism and Janism see:

http://web.singnet.com.sg/~sidneys/Swastika.htm

In general, Buddhists are pretty hard to insult. If you do manage to insult one the anger engendered may well be viewed as a precious opportunity for practice. See _A Flash of Lightning in the Dark of Night_, the Dalai Lama's presentation of and commentary on Shantideva's 'The Way of the Bodhisattva', esp. Chapter 6. See also HHDL's expansion of this commentary on Patience in _Healing Anger_.

-
Richard Ray - Jackson Hole, WY

[mzmolly]

31. Thank you again...

I've enjoyed hearing from many of you on this subject.

[htuttle]

34. However, you might get unlucky when insulting a Buddhist

and find one who's willing to teach you the lesson of Ed Gruberman as well.

:)

http://www.webguys.com/pdavis/karate/tikwanleep.html

[Scott Lee]

35. The Dine (Dineh) also use the svastika, and boy let me tell you...

..what happened with some of their weavings my ex-inlaws used to sell.

The weavings in question were on display for sale at an art gallery run by the inlaws in Park City Utah. It is a common theme in Dine (Navajo) artwork to see the svastika, which is centuries old to them and represents the seasonal wheel. Anyway some couple from New York city came in to the gallery one day and just pitched a royal fit over the fact they were even visible. My mom in law calmly tried to explain the historical significance of the symbol to The T'aa Dine, but these irate folks would not be consoled. Just to diffuse the situation she agreed to take them off the wall (even if just until the nasty little couple had gone).

I guess Al better write off the Dine vote now, too....

[mzmolly]

37. Wow, how very sad.

Thank You for sharing.

[gottaB]

32. Thich Nhat Hanh says

"When we look into ourselves, we see both flowers and garbage. Each of has anger, hatred, depression, racial discrimination, and many other kinds of garbage in us, but there is no need for us to be afraid. In the way that a gardener knows how to transform compost into flowers, we can learn the art of transforming anger, depression, and racial discrimination into love and understanding. This is the work of meditation."

Listening to Geri Allen, I am a flower, and so are you.

[mzmolly]

36. Most wise advice.

Thanks! I think some here would call me a weed, but - ya can't win em all. ;)

[ParanoidPat]

38. Thanks for helping this thread bloom!

;-) As I look into myself I see that I could grow a thousand acres of roses.......... eventually! :evilgrin:

How long will it take to turn all of this crap to compost anyway? :shrug:

[RichardRay]

41. Next breath, next lifetime.....

that's why it's called 'practice'. :-)

[bloom]

54. I thought you were talking to me

:)

(I liked that quote, too. I sent it to my daughter.)

[mzmolly]

39. I have learned very much from many of you, thanks!

:thumbsup:

[mumon]

43. Hindus, too.

The swastika goes backwards w.r.t. the Nazi one, though.

A swastika's a symbol. It's what's in the heart that matters.

Sharpton was just being ignorant.

[mzmolly]

46. I agree, thanks.

There are many religions that embrace the symbol he used to try and insult another candidate, it's a shame a reverend wouldn't have more respect/knowlege in these matters.

[mumon]

49. Please understand- I'm not offended by Sharpton's remark

He's just being ignorant. So I should get my undies in a wad over people's ignorance? Might as well take 'em off then, since people's ignorance is never in short supply.

[mzmolly]

50. I understand, and I agree that it simply ignorance.

However it is quite ironic under the circumstances.

[ShaneGR]

51. Buddhists? Who cares

How many Buddhists are there in America? Maybe a couple hundred thousand tops?

[ParanoidPat]

52. Republicans seem to care a great deal......

.....at least they did in 1999 when Al Gore received a contribution from them! :evilfrown:

[mzmolly]

53. Buddhists, Hindus, Navajo (Dineh) etc...

Read and learn SGR2... ;)

[ParanoidPat]

58. Do you suppose Bush* will do to the American flag......

.......what Hitler did to the Svatstika? :scared:

[bloom]

55. That sounds like

some of the garbage that Thich Nhat Hanh was talking about (see post #32).

[goodhue]

56. Swastika used all over Indian subcontinent

I have no problem with Sharpton's statement. He is merely equating confederate flag with a facist anti-black agenda, which is fair.

It is certainly correct to note that the swastika symbol is very important to eastern culture, the Indian subcontinent, and in particular to Hindus. Not really a Buddhist symbol per se although is used by Buhhdists in the Indian subcontinent such as those in Nepal & Tibet. It is not used by Zen Buddhists of Japan to my knowledge. Rather it is explicitly associated with Hindus & Jains.

But I fail to see your point. Are you suggesting that we should forgive Dean's pandering to confederate flag supporters because Dean has a greater understanding of eastern culture. I doubt that. I thought it was Sharpton that had 5-day trip to India to learn about Kashmir conflict. Didn't recall seeing travel to India in Dean's bio, but perhaps I missed it.

For more on swastika see . . .
http://www.indiaprofile.com/religion-culture/swastika.htm

All over India and much of the East, the swastika in either of its configurations, is commonly regarded as a sign of `good luck'. Good luck is related to the literal translation of `Swastika' which is `well-being', and is understood in its mundane aspect by most of the populace. The idea of well-being originates from the principle of balance; in relation to a human being a harmonious cohesion or union of spirit, mind and body. This allows a state of health to exist whereas imbalance and chaos create illness.

Widely used as a talisman to counteract possible negative or demonic influences, it is particularly evident during ceremonial occasions such as weddings (the union of male and female principles) and at births.

The origin of the swastika has become a source of speculation for researchers over time. Mentioned in the Vedas, the Upanishads and the Mahabharata, the symbol has its origin with the Vedic Aryans, its meaning having been clearly defined by the Nagas or Vedic Initiates. One Naga king was named Swastika. The serpent and the swastika are siblings; the serpent as the energizing creative force in the Universe, the swastika as that force in motion. Both are fundamental aspects of Vedic cosmology. Ananta Sesha, the cosmic serpent, symbolic of timeless eternity, displays the swastika on its multi-hooded image.

The symbol reflects and distills the wisdom of its original architects; those who understood that the forces of attraction and repulsion form the underlying substance in the creative scenario and apply to every facet of life from tiny atom to distant star.

[mzmolly]

57. Actually the thread is about Sharpton, but since you ask...

I'm saying that both comments can be taken as 'innocent' or 'hateful and ignorant' - simple really.